Jim Clancy: Initiation rites in S. Africa use risky circumcision

Jim Clancy is an anchor and correspondent for CNN International. He joined the CNN.com chat room from CNN Center in Atlanta, GA on Wednesday, August 22, 2001.

CNN: Good morning Jim Clancy. Welcome all to Inside Africa chat.

JIM CLANCY: Good day to everyone!

CNN: Jim, you recently did a report on initiation schools. Can you tell us about this practice and the controversy surrounding it?

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CLANCY: The practice is centuries-old. Young men enter what is really an encampment where elders lecture them about the responsibilities of manhood, relations with women and responsibilities to the family and community. Within the process, in some case, male circumcision is practiced. It is here that the process has come in for criticism: there were 15 deaths from these procedures in the last year in South Africa.

Health officials want operators of the "Initiation Schools" to turn circumcisions over to local hospitals, where the process can be sanitary and needless injuries and deaths averted. The elders do not want to surrender the schools' authority in these areas. They say the "good" far outweighs the "bad" when it comes to these rites.

CNN: How old are these boys at the time of this initiation?

CLANCY: The boys are coming of age...anywhere from say, 12 years of age to 17.

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CHAT PARTICIPANT: Why don't they just train the elders in more sanitary practices?

CLANCY: Good question. The governments, thus far, believe that it is far easier just to have the initiates report to a local hospital. But doing that, avoiding the "pain" associated with the procedure, is seen by some of the elders as missing the point. Life isn't always easy. Life is sometimes painful. And the point of the schools is to prepare these young men for future life as adults. You're right. This should come up for discussion. Perhaps doctors could volunteer to take equipment into the field and help, or "guide" those conducting the procedure and they're using sterile equipment."

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Why is the United States opposed to the UN meeting on racism to be held in Africa? How will the decision by the U.S. to not support this affect relations with African nations?

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CLANCY: The image of the U.S. as "unilateralist" will be reinforced. It does not signal the U.S. becoming "isolationist." Basically, the U.S. is saying it won't waste its time talking about issues that it considers to be more politically-charged, propaganda-charged than really based in need or fact. African countries are looking at this as a "my way or the highway" approach and it doesn't sit well with them. Not because of the specific issues being discussed here, but because that attitude could mean that discussion of all issues of concern to Africans may be subject to a kind of "veto" by Washington. Issues like development aid, debt relief, military assistance and training. Will the U.S. "listen" to its African partners? Or simply dictate terms.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Jim, can you update us on the trial of the farmers in Zimbabwe?

CLANCY: They have been released on bail today and had an emotional reunion with family and friends. This strikes at the heart of the violence and problems in Zimbabwe. Government supporters have not been singled out for arrest in any numbers. Despite orders by the Supreme Court, no action has been taken by the government against the farm "occupiers" which are, above all, ZANU-PF supporters. Today, those government supporters shut down the border with Zambia. There are legitimate questions being raised about whether the actions of these farmers amounted to "self-defense."

CNN: What can you tell us about efforts to eradicate polio in Africa?

CLANCY: Several groups have been working hard, in terribly difficult situations, to fight polio. Consider this: Polio cripples for life. It can't be cured. But it can be easily prevented with vaccine. Workers have risked their lives in warzones in DR Congo, Angola and elsewhere to try to ensure that infants, children and young people get a chance. No one can criticize the program. It is really a no-brainer and deserves all of the support that everyone can give it.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Do you think the continent of Africa will ever unite into an African Union in order to leverage financial, mineral, and human resources?

CLANCY: We shall see! I think there are going to be problems, just as there were in Europe and elsewhere. In the coming years, we're going to see some kind of better cooperation on common problems, and perhaps that's what we're really looking to see. Remember, the whole Africa Union process is aimed to help the continent take advantage of globalization and to get in step with the Americas, Europe and Asia. The leadership doesn't have a clear plan, to be sure. But, hey, they clearly know what directions things are going, and I salute them for taking the initiative.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: What is the status on the problem with small arms in Africa?

CLANCY: The status is that everyone agrees they are a huge problem and encourage things like child soldiers. Now, having said that, people don't know whether to outlaw arms sales to rebel groups but allow them to governments. The recent conference on small arms said "No!" to that one. But that was the U.S., perhaps thinking that it isn't good to allow Khartoum to buy arms with its new oil money without having the ability to help the rebels in Southern Sudan achieve parity, militarily, before serious peace talks. All kinds of arguments can be made. The fact is that arms embargoes don't work well because a greedy arms dealer and a corrupt government official can too easily circumvent those embargoes.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Considering that N. Africa is in the midst of a long desertification and the whole continent is one continuous brush war, why should developed countries continue to prop up these countries' failed governments?

CLANCY: Well, I think you need to study more of Africa! There are quite a number of success stories out there. Africa is hardly either a desert or a conflict zone. In fact, most of the continent is at peace. You just read about Africa as if it were all at war. There are, it is true, a number of stubborn conflicts underway. And there are problems. But there are massive schemes to end drought in many areas and make use of what are essentially abundant water resources in one place to solve drought problems in another. In addition, there are peace efforts underway in Sudan, Sierra Leone (including Guinea and Liberia,) Burundi and most important, the DR Congo (which is the size of Western Europe!). Africa, and especially democracy in Africa, needs encouragement to solve these problems. What is most exciting is the new initiative of leaders like Nigeria's President Olusegun Obasanjo and others for Africans to come up with the solutions themselves and make them work.

CNN: What is the news regarding the re-opening of the Congo River?

CLANCY: The UN teams on the Congo river have made their way from Kinshasa/Brazzavile all the way up the river about, well just about, halfway to Kisingani. This is central Africa's "superhighway." Rebels and government forces turned the river into a warzone during the fighting and now the idea is to reopen this trade route for normal river traffic. These will allow the flow of medical supplies, food, seed, fertilizer and other commodities to people all along the river. I can't think of anything that will help normal people begin to see some benefits from the peace talks more than this.

CNN: Do you have any final thoughts for us today, Jim?

CLANCY: Well, we've got a few things coming up in the coming weeks that are important. Immediately, there is a flood crisis in Sudan. The "Blue" Nile (from Ethiopia) merges with the "White" Nile at Khartoum and it is from there northward that thousands of people are being forced to flee. We're watching that one.

Meantime, Somalia is in a food crisis again and the question we must ask is whether the continued presence of the warlords will make donors unwilling to step forward. Food Aid is literally the only source of finances of any measure in Somalia. Traditionally, the warlords will expect to make a bundle out of the starvation of their own people and this doesn't sit well with donors.

Also, there are all-important "National Dialogue" talks underway for the parties in the DR Congo right now....this is very important. So, as always, Africa remains in need, but is obviously working to solve its problems. It's been a pleasure being with all of you today!

CNN: Thanks for joining us today, Jim Clancy! We look forward to talking with you again next week.

Jim Clancy joined CNN.com Newsroom from CNN Center in Atlanta, GA. The above is an edited transcript of the interview on Wednesday, August 22, 2001.