Eagleburger: No 'clear way' to Mideast peace

Lawrence Eagleburger

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(CNN) -- CNN's Andrea Koppel discussed the war against terrorism and tension in the Middle East Saturday with Lawrence Eagleburger, former secretary of state during the administration of the first President Bush.

KOPPEL: I'd like to begin with the Middle East, obviously. You ... [were] a diplomat for three decades. Just how bad is it now compared to what it was during your tenure?

EAGLEBURGER: It's very bad. .... [H]ow you compare this situation with, say, the '73 war or anything like that, is difficult, because in those earlier times it was war. ... But this time may be even worse because you see no end to it.

I don't see, and I don't think anybody else sees, any clear way of getting out of this mess we're in now. And it could go on for a very long time. And the worst part of it, I think, probably is that nobody knows when the next bomb is going to blow up next to them.

KOPPEL: So, should the United States get more involved, and if so, how?

EAGLEBURGER: That's a terribly difficult question. ... It's time we faced up to some facts, and those facts include the following: that we've been at this effort for 40-some years and largely without success. ... And that's not blaming anybody. It's just so much a problem that it goes beyond the imagination of man, that nobody has been able to solve it, particularly given the hatred on both sides.

But the fact of the matter also is, it seems to me, that the Israelis are much more being sinned against than sinning. And our constant ... nattering at them about balance and so forth -- how can you balance an effort when you're having children and people killed every weekend by some terror bomber?

I must tell you I think, frankly, that this call for a more balanced view on our part from the Arabs and everybody else is wrong-footed. I do believe ... we need to make it very clear to everybody that fundamentally we are on the side of the Israelis and that they are being attacked and they have a right to defend themselves.

KOPPEL: Secretary Eagleburger ... President Bush has said he doesn't want to jump in until he feels the time is right. What does that mean?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I think probably what he means is until he thinks there's some possibility that by becoming involved he can have some impact on events. And ... it's a view I share, in the sense that it is useless to try to get into the middle of this thing if in fact all that's going to do is show that we, like everybody else, don't have any particular solution to the problem.

I think when and if things get difficult enough that the parties really need us, then ... is when I think it would be proper for us to get involved.

KOPPEL: We haven't been hearing much about going after Iraq, at least from the administration in recent days.

EAGLEBURGER: I think there is good reason for that, Andrea, and that it is very difficult to try to figure out just how you do that unless you are prepared to put a lot of troops on the ground, as we did the first time around.

You know, if you try to analyze any other way in which we may be able to affect what Saddam Hussein does, it seems to me air power by itself isn't enough. Diplomacy by itself certainly hasn't worked. So it gets to be a very tough problem to think this one through, particularly if you have got the Arab world saying, "Don't you do anything to Iraq."

So I can understand why the administration is remaining relatively quiet on the subject today.

KOPPEL: You took the words out of my mouth. I just was going to ask you about that, that Arab ... show of unity saying, "The U.S. better not think about going after Iraq because the Arab world won't support it." Was that empty rhetoric, do you think, or was there something more to it?

EAGLEBURGER: No, I think there's more to it than that. Mind you, I think ... some of the Arab states that signed on to that probably in their heart of hearts would hope that Saddam Hussein would step on a land mine tomorrow morning or something. So there is at least a hidden view on the part of some of them that they would like to get rid of him.

But Arab solidarity is something that must be maintained by them, they believe. And therefore, what we were faced with, and will be faced with if we decide to do something with regard to Iraq, is a fairly hard line on the part of the Arabs, which will be even strengthened more.

And where the administration really has a problem now is that they're going to link it to the whole struggle against terrorism. And in effect they are already saying that, "You know, you're going to have to do something about the way Israel has been treating the Palestinians, etc., before we're even going to consider what we would do with you on the terrorist front."

So they have linked the two now, as I think we should have expected they would. But it's not an easy equation now to figure out how to deal with.

KOPPEL: Well, here is another equation for you. Some in the Arab world in recent days are now accusing the U.S. of giving a green light to Israel in this latest incursion into Ramallah, saying that the U.S. is tacitly approving Israel going after the Palestinian Authority and isolating Arafat.

EAGLEBURGER: ... I don't believe for one minute that we have given the Israelis a green light to do what they're doing. I will tell you, in my personal view, that the Israelis probably don't have much choice to do anything other than what they are doing. But I cannot believe and I do not believe that the administration has given any indication that we would support this.

KOPPEL: As a seasoned diplomat, help us out with some translating here of some "diplo-speak." This was yesterday [Friday], Secretary of State [Colin] Powell saying: "We call on Prime Minister [Ariel] Sharon and his government to carefully consider the consequences of those actions."

On a scale of one to 10, how tough was he being with the Israelis?

EAGLEBURGER: Seven, six or seven. The reason I would rate it that tough is because when the U.S. says that sort of thing to the Israelis, the Israelis have to listen.

The general view around here is that the Israelis don't pay any attention to us. That's nonsense. And when we say something like that, there is no question that Sharon, et al., have to pay attention to it. And they know what Powell was saying to them. They may in the end ignore it, but it will not be that they will ignore it easily.

KOPPEL: OK, here's another one for you. Secretary of State Powell again yesterday: "Let's be clear about what brought it all to a halt -- terrorism, terrorism on the part of those who would target innocent civilians." And he's referring there to the progress that the U.S. believed Anthony Zinni was making in reaching a cease-fire. Whom was Secretary Powell speaking to?

EAGLEBURGER: Basically, the Palestinians, I think. And the Palestinians are going to be too dunderheaded to understand that. But it was so delicate that I suppose it could be read as a caution to both sides, but in this one, it's fairly clear, it seems to me, that if you parse that language, it basically has to apply to the Palestinians. But again, you have to work to get there.

KOPPEL: Yesterday, Russia's foreign minister called for international intervention. ... And he said that the only way to halt the conflict is obviously for the international community to get more involved. He said, otherwise, it's going to spill over into other parts of the region. Do you agree?

EAGLEBURGER: I think there is real danger that it will spill over. I think there is real danger, as well, that it will have a chilling effect on our ability to pursue our war against terrorism.

The problem with talking about international intervention is, I don't know what that means. Are we are going to put in some sort of an international force to step between the two contending parties? Now, that's tough in the present circumstances because they're all mixed up, there's no clear line of demarcation.

And secondly, who's going to run this international force? And this is a critical question, particularly for the Israelis, because by in large their view, and I think rightly, is that most of the rest of the world will favor the Palestinian cause, not their own.