U.N. envoy: 'I cannot judge if there was a massacre' in Jenin

U.N. Mideast envoy Terje Roed-Larsen

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(CNN) -- The United Nations has approved a fact-finding team to look into conditions at the Jenin refugee camp, the scene of heavy fighting during Israel's West Bank military operation.

But Israeli officials said Sunday they will not approve the participation of anyone considered unfriendly to Israel on the U.N. team -- including, Israeli newspapers reported, Terje Roed-Larsen, the U.N. Middle East envoy who described a horrifying scene last week after a visit to the refugee camp.

Roed-Larsen talked Monday with CNN about Israeli criticisms of him, what he saw at the camp and the upcoming U.N. mission.

CNN: Among other things, you've had an Israeli Cabinet secretary saying that your comments about Jenin were "distorted, harmful and one-sided." The attorney general of Israel [Elyakim Rubinstein] called your comments "lies and baseless." Your reaction to those criticisms?

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ROED-LARSEN: My reaction is that I have been totally misrepresented in parts of the Israeli media, evidently quoting me wrongly, saying that I stated that there was a massacre in Jenin. I said nothing of the sort.

What I did on the ground was describe what I saw in front of me. And what I saw was an area looking as if there had been an earthquake there. I saw people digging up dead, decaying bodies with their bare hands. I saw a 12-year-old kid being dug up in front of me. And what I did on camera was say that I was shocked and horrified by what I saw. And I think any decent human being, whatever background or political leaning, would have reacted on a purely human base, the way I did. And I stand by what I said.

CNN: The Israeli attorney general went on to say, "If he was working within the framework of his job, he should have turned to the Israeli government to check these things instead of coming out with these types of accusations." Does the attorney general have any point there?

ROED-LARSEN: Well, I'm sure that if the attorney general was with me there in that rubble, he would have reacted exactly the same way as I did. I mean, [wherever] one comes from, when one sees human suffering like this, I think everybody would have reacted being horrified. There was a stench of decaying bodies there which was absolutely awful.

But that does not imply that I said there was a massacre there. These are horrors of war, and I cannot judge if there was a massacre or not. And this is why everybody should now be relieved that there will be a fact-finding mission which will find out what happened there. And after that, we can all judge.

CNN: It's interesting to note that one of CNN's correspondents, Sheila MacVicar, has just finished interviewing a captured senior Hamas member [who] happened to be captured in Jenin last week, and he's being held at a secure Israeli facility now. And he says there was no massacre in Jenin, but there was a raging battle. What do you think of that characterization?

ROED-LARSEN: I was not there, and none of my staff members was there during the battle. This is why I have said, and I repeat it again, I cannot judge what happened in the battle. What we in the U.N. have been commenting on was what happened after the battle, and that's related to the humanitarian situation.

And what we think should have happened there is that there should be a search and research operation conducted, and international humanitarian organizations should have been allowed in there. I have not given any comments nor raised the issue of a massacre. That's why I don't want to comment on it, and I have not commented on it. I don't know what happened there.

CNN: Let's move on to what Gideon Meir has had to say. He is a senior foreign ministry official for Israel. And he has called the Jenin refugee camp "an assembly line for suicide bombers." Did you see any evidence of that as you toured the refugee camp?

ROED-LARSEN: I was [there] for about three hours in the refugee camp, and I spent most of the time in the rubble in the middle of the refugee camp. I didn't go into any houses or anything. But it sounds very likely, or not only very likely -- we know that there were armed elements in this refugee camp.

And it is against international humanitarian law to have armed elements in a refugee camp. And we are foursquare against violations of humanitarian law, whether it is from this side or that side.

CNN: How much do you think the Israeli action has to do with the fact that you were a special coordinator for [U.N. Secretary-General] Kofi Annan in secret talks that eventually led to the 1993 Oslo agreement? Is this criticism personal in some way?

ROED-LARSEN: I was not actually working for the U.N. at the time. I was working for the Norwegian foreign ministry at the time. I mean, one can speculate about that. I can have no opinions about it.

But I must say I'm pretty puzzled that I'm accused of saying there was a massacre when I, in fact, never said so and never meant so. There will be a fact-finding commission which will find the facts there, and then we can all draw our conclusions.

CNN: As a man who has devoted countless hours to the kind of work that you do, how hurtful has this criticism been to you on a personal level, not just a professional level?

ROED-LARSEN: Of course, it doesn't feel good when I'm accused of something which is not true, and I feel it is very unfair. But at the same time, I have great empathy for both parties here.

It's a terrible situation for Palestinians and Israelis alike -- on the Israeli side, with these despicable, horrible, terrorist suicide bombings which are taking place, and for the Palestinians, the vast part of the population is now suffering deeply. There is an unemployment rate of 75 percent. Over half the population is below the poverty rate.

And in such a situation, people easily jump to conclusions, become hotheaded. So I don't bear any grudge to anybody after what happened. I hope that we can get into a cooler and calmer atmosphere and continue working with both parties in trust and confidence.