CNN THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN
York, Pennsylvania Mayor Charged With Murder
Aired May 17, 2001 - 20:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN.
An old town mayor seeking reelection. Allegations of murder more than three decades ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR CHARLIE ROBERTSON, YORK, PENNSYLVANIA: Murder is the charge! Murder is the charge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: THE POINT: Why now? The missing intern. The distraught mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help find my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And questions surrounding the congressman she worked for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARRYL STRAWBERRY, FORMER BASEBALL PLAYER: This case is not about Darryl Strawberry, the baseball star. This case is about a person who's very sick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: How many strikes before Darryl Strawberry is out?
THE POINT. Now from Washington, Greta Van Susteren.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Have you changed? Maybe your opinions, your job, your outlook on others? If those changes are for the better, do they make up for your past mistakes? Or are some of the mistakes so hideous, all the change in the world isn't enough?
Tonight's "Flashpoint": the mayor indicted for a 32-year-old murder, why now? CNN's David Mattingly shows us what has changed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's the two- term mayor of the working class city York, Pennsylvania, and Charlie Robertson seemed on his way to re-election, reportedly well liked by white and black voters. But instead of on the campaign trail, today Robertson was in court, charged with murder in a 32-year-old crime.
The charge comes from a time when Robertson a cop on the streets of York during one of the most violent periods in the city's long history. He is in the death of Lillie Belle Allen. Allen was gunned down when her family's car stalled in a York neighborhood in 1969 during week of racially-charged violence that left two dead, 60 injured and buildings burned.
(on camera): The case was cold for decades until a local paper ran a series of reports marking the 30th anniversary of the riots. New witnesses came forward last year, eventually implicating several people, including the mayor.
ROBERTSON: Murder is the charge! Murder is the charge. I'm standing here in disbelief.
MATTINGLY: Robertson, now 67, admits to having made racist remarks as an officer, behavior he says, he now regrets. But he denies claims he provided ammunition to an armed white street gang and incited them to violence. Five others are charged in connection with the killing, including four former gang members.
ROBERTSON: As to the charge which they must prove, and to this I maintain my innocence.
MATTINGLY: Robertson was charged two days after winning a close race for the Democratic Party nomination. He says he will not drop out of the race and suggests that charges against him could be political.
After a tearful appearance in court, Robertson was released on bond, charged with criminal homicide.
David Mattingly, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: To talk about how residents of York, Pennsylvania are reacting, is the assistant managing editor of the "York Dispatch Sunday News," J.P. Kurish. J.P., what's the reaction of the community to the news of the indictment?
J.P. KURISH, "YORK DISPATCH SUNDAY NEWS": Well, Greta, I don't think there's one reaction for the whole community. I think that the reaction depends on how old you are, what part of the city you live in, and especially what race you are. We've seen a lot of mixed reactions all along.
And the reaction today, I think, is a little bit of a foregone conclusion. Our newspaper has been reporting stories for several months and going back a year about the involvement of people in York in these crimes and these race riots. And so, I think the community has had various reactions all along the line.
Today's reaction, I think, was a little bit stunned, because the arrest came immediately the day after the election.
VAN SUSTEREN: J.P., I'll tell you what struck me. I read the affidavit by detective Rodney George, and it states in the indictment -- or, in rather, in the affidavit that this man was a racist back in 1969 at the time of the murder. But the allegations against him in the actual affidavit seem rather thin. What is it that was so persuasive or -- do you have any idea what the evidence is against him that was presented to the grand jury?
KURISH: Well, I think that -- when we went back to the original story we published about a year ago, or two years ago in the 30th anniversary, we talked about how the way you prosecute crimes have changed, and I think at the time, really, what struck us back then was that these things couldn't be prosecuted -- not that they couldn't be prosecuted but they weren't prosecuted because nobody wanted to -- that during the riots, a black woman was killed, a white police officer was killed, and as far as the authorities were concerned, the screw was tied one to one and nobody wanted to any further than that.
And when we started looking at these crimes, that was the appalling thing. Not so much the crimes themselves, but that nobody had bothered to look at them for so long. And so, now I think the prosecutors are looking at this with a fresh eye and saying, well, maybe in 1969 we didn't think -- we thought we had to have the actual shooter and the actual bullet and the actual gun to convict anybody of this crime.
I think the prosecutors are looking at it now and saying, there was a conspiracy and a continued course of conduct in a group, and therefore, everybody in that group is guilty of that conspiracy and guilty of that crime. And I think that's more or less -- not so much fresh evidence, the fresh statements that say that a group acted on a continuous course, and I think that's what they are going to take to court.
VAN SUSTEREN: A terrible crime, a prosecutor may think it's fresh evidence, but you've got very stale witnesses who didn't come forward for 32 years. Terrible tragedy, a woman shot in the chest, killed. Mayor is now up for re-election, I think, in November. Is he going to get re-elected, do you think, in light of this indictment?
KURISH: Well, you know, I think that changes every day. We took a poll two days before the election this year, and the mayor was up by 11 point with 50 percent undecided. We've seen a lot of undecideds in local races before, it didn't surprise us.
By Election Day, the challenger had closed in 48 votes with a little over 1.7% of vote. He lost by -- I really honestly think it may seem strange, but while in the days leading up to the election, it appeared that the mayor's indictment was imminent. I think a lot of people were waiting for it. Now that he's been indicted, it will be interesting to see.
If, as the president of the local NAACP says that all black voters will vacate the Democratic Party and go to the Republican coalition of white Republicans and black Democrats, could win the nomination -- or could win the election for the Republican nominee, but that remains to be seen.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I hope you will come back and join us as we continue to follow this story. J.P. Kurish, thanks very much for joining us.
KURISH: Thanks for having me.
A jury will decide whether Mayor Charles Robertson is guilty of murder, but the rest of us are left with the question: why now, after 32 years? Let's ask Lamell McMorris of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. He's the group's chairman and chief operating officer, and he joins us from Chicago. And in Montgomery, Alabama is Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center.
First to you, Lamell. Is it ever too late to prosecute someone for a crime as horrendous at this?
LAMELL MCMORRIS, SCLC: Well, if you don't mind, I'd like to make one correction. Martin Luther King III is the president and chief executive officer, and I am the national executive director and chief operating officer, just for the...
VAN SUSTEREN: And I appreciate being corrected. Thank you. I won't make the mistake again.
MCMORRIS: Yes. Well, it is not. You know, one of the key points to make here is that justice delayed does not equal justice denied. It is unfortunate that it has taken this long, and we must realize that much has changed culturally.
You know, it's important for me to note, Ms. Van Susteren, I work with Martin Luther King III who is the president and CEO of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, whose father, whose father was gunned down at 10 years old, whose uncle was mysteriously drowned and whose grandmother was gunned down in Ebineser (ph) Baptist Church while praying the Lord's prayer.
Yet, he and his family have embraced forgiveness, and I think that's very important. But forgiveness is a theological issue. Murder is a legal issue. We live in our faith, but we live under the law. And it's never too late for justice to be served.
VAN SUSTEREN: Mark, I agree with him. It's never too late for justice to be served, but there's also the overriding problem that a man accused of any crime, or woman, is entitled to a fair trial, and it makes it extraordinarily difficult for the defense to try a 32- year-old case.
But let me get your reaction to the mayor's indictment. What is it, Mark? MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: I think it's about time. I must say, you know, reading into this case, it does -- this seems like a lot stronger case than the case that was just brought in Birmingham, Alabama, the 16th Street Baptist...
VAN SUSTEREN: They had tapes in that case, Mark. They had tapes in that case. What they have here in this detective's statement is a few people come forward 32 years later, and I'm wondering why they've been asleep at the wheel for 32 years after this poor woman was gunned down. But in the Birmingham case, they actually had tapes of the defendant.
POTOK: Well, listen, you know, I'm not a lawyer; you are. The tapes, of course, of Tommy Blanton were of him apparently discussing another bombing.
But in any case, I think that -- you know, I think that something that really needs to be said about this whole case is that York, Pennsylvania in particular and the area have a really heinous history of race relations. You know, I looked at my own database here at the Southern Poverty Law Center and I see 126 entries from the last 11 years out of York, Pennsylvania. I mean, this is a town and a region with real race troubles. Any number...
VAN SUSTEREN: I tell you, that raises another, more difficult issue, though. If it's got a heinous history -- and everyone is outraged, or should be outraged by this homicide that occurred 32 years ago -- the problem that you always run into is that the sort of the rage towards this horrible crime will in some way inhibit the fair trial in this case. That's the problem.
POTOK: I agree with you 100 percent. I think that's the danger in all of these cases. I felt it was the danger in the 16th Street case. And you know, it's a fact. You know, there is a kind of trend, obviously, in this country to bring these cases, and you're certainly right. We're operating with 31, 32-year-old memories and so on. So, that said, obviously...
VAN SUSTEREN: Let me ask you this. It seems like prosecutors for years look the other way, in this case in York. And in Birmingham and other cases. What's your reaction of the fact that the prosecutors just sort of seem to look the other way, at least in the Birmingham case, there's the suggestion that the FBI sat on evidence?
MCMORRIS: I can't speculate as to what prosecutors do or if the FBI sat on evidence. I do know that it's never too late. There's no statue limitations on fairness, justice or equity.
I do know for the families, for the community and for the nation, closure and justice -- for justice to occur, and for these individuals who -- who possibly committed certain crimes and certain actions, they must be held accountable for their actions.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I suppose that you know the best way to hold accountable is indeed a trial. I assume, you would agree with me that we had to figure out some way to make sure it is a fair trial, even for someone who is accused of such a terrible crime.
MCMORRIS: A fair trial that not only leads to fairness and equity for the individual being tried, but for the families and victims and for the community and for the nation.
And a fair trial brings about closure. And from closure, we can move towards healing.
VAN SUSTEREN: Mark, give me some idea of how many other cases out there simply have been looked -- I mean ignored? How many other murder cases like this are there out there?
POTOK: Well, you know, it's not known, is the short answer. I've heard it said down here that, you know, when the archangel Gabriel blows his trumpet, so many people will rise out of the rivers, that you will be able to walk across on dry feet. Obviously, that's something of an exaggeration.
I remember that back during the civil rights era in a couple of cases where rivers were dragged for bodies here, they kept coming up with other people. People who no one had ever identified. People chained to engine blocks and that sort of thing.
All that said, I think the reality is, is that we have dealt with -- or almost dealt with -- most of the very well-known cases.
VAN SUSTEREN: And, in some ways, that's almost tragic, that the well-known cases get attended to; the lesser known peoples' cases sometimes get ignored. But we're out of time. Thanks to Lamell McMorris and Mark Potok.
Our next stop is Washington and a story where the anguish and the heartbreak is as fresh as today's headlines. The end of the mystery isn't written. The search for Chandra Levy when THE POINT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Chandra Levy is missing. And Capitol Hill is watching. Bob Franken has details of this disturbing case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 24-year-old Chandra Levy had just finished an internship in Washington and was scheduled to return home to California for her graduation. Instead, two weeks ago she mysteriously disappeared.
SUSAN LEVY, CHANDRA'S MOTHER: Anybody who has any information please help find my daughter.
FRANKEN: Levy's parents have come to Washington to meet with law enforcement officials. What police call "another missing person case" is getting unusual attention as investigators search for evidence of foul play.
CHIEF CHARLES RAMSEY, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPT.: We've seen missing cases that have gone on for some time and the person's shown up. We've had others where we weren't quite that fortunate.
FRANKEN: The attention also focuses on Gary Condit, the congressman from Levy's hometown of Modesto, California. Levy, who was an intern at the Bureau of Prisons, frequently visited Condit's office.
Following her disappearance, Condit issued a statement saying "Chandra is a great person and a good friend."
Repeatedly questioned about their relationship, a Condit spokesman denied that the Congressman and the intern were romantically involved. Condit's campaign has contributed $10,000 toward a $25,000 reward fund. Police sources tell CNN, he has been interviewed by local detectives. Investigators have sent Levy's cell phone and laptop computer to the FBI lab so that records of calls and e-mails can be retrieved.
Condit says he requested FBI involvement in the investigation last week. Meanwhile Levy's parents met with the two U.S. senators from California, but not with Condit.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: To my knowledge, there is no linkage other than the fact they were friends. I'd let the police do their investigation and not taint it.
FRANKEN: Senator Feinstein has contributed $5,000 to Levy's reward fund. Meanwhile, Levy's friends have set up Web sites and taken their search to the streets of Washington.
The 24-year-old intern was last seen at this exercise club April 30. A day later friends visited her apartment and found I.D. and credit cards, and her packed luggage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: Police say they found no signs of foul play in the apartment. And so far, Greta, no signs of Chandra Levy.
VAN SUSTEREN: What about the relationship with the congressman? Is there any evidence that says anything more than a constituent- congressman relationship?
FRANKEN: It's really been very, very, very speculative questions asked about her relationship. The Congressman has said that they were great friends. Some people said she spent an inordinate amount of time in her office. There have been some people who believe that there was some sort of social relationship between the two. But, nothing but people who are really -- so far, just talking rumors.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, thank you. Bob Franken, thanks a lot.
Joining me now from Sacramento, California is a friend of Chandra Levy. Jennifer Baker also did an internship in Washington this past fall.
Jennifer, when is the last time you had contact with your friend? JENNIFER BAKER, CHANDRA LEVY'S FRIEND: It was either late January or early February of this year.
VAN SUSTEREN: How did you two meet?
BAKER: We met in Sacramento before both of us went to Washington, D.C. And we also took a class together in Washington, D.C. and did quite a bit of touring there.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you know anything about her personal life, who she hung around with? Whether she attended parties?
BAKER: Well, both of us spent a lot of time going to all the tourist sites when we were in Washington. And we tried to go out socially on election night and another nights to try to get a feel of Washington, D.C. in it's entirety.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she date any men while she was here in Washington, as far as you know?
BAKER: As far as I know, she told me that she had a boyfriend in the FBI. And we didn't have any extensive conversations about it at all. We were mostly talking about school and traveling.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know where she had her internship?
BAKER: Yes. She had an internship with the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
VAN SUSTEREN: What do you make of the discussion -- and I don't want to draw any sort of wild conclusions -- but it's been reported that she stopped in to see her congressman on a number of occasions. Did she ever talk about her congressman with you?
BAKER: Well, the reason that she stopped by the congressman's office is because I interned for the office and she would come to meet me for lunch. We both met him the same time together, and that's the only time that I know of that Chandra ever met Congressman Condit. But she would come to meet me quite often because we would meet to go on social outings or go for lunch.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything in your mind, any reason why you think she might just sort of disappear on her own? That she would just sort of leave town?
BAKER: I don't know. And I have no idea. And so that's why I'm working as hard as I can with her parents to try and get the word out that she's missing so we can try and find her and bring her back.
VAN SUSTEREN: Were you aware of any sort of personal problems she might have? Any even any fears of being in D.C.?
BAKER: No, she never expressed anything like that to me. And I've never noticed anything. I don't know.
VAN SUSTEREN: What are you doing to sort of help locate her? BAKER: Trying to have a national awareness campaign that Chandra's missing, both on the East and the West Coast. Her parents, as you know, are doing quite a few media interviews and I'm trying to work, also with that, and trying to spread the word to people on a grass roots level also that Chandra is missing and to make people aware just so they are looking out for her.
VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you to Jennifer Baker for joining me this evening.
BAKER: Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Darryl Strawberry went to bat for himself today. Not in any ballpark, but in a courtroom. Hear what he told a judge, and what the judge told him, after a quick break and our MONEYLINE update.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: We have a major problem in this country.
Tonight's final point: Not 18 months but the ninth inning. Darryl Strawberry is a drug addict. And he has cancer. The odds against him are enormous. But this morning Strawberry got one more at bat in Florida court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARRYL STRAWBERRY, FORMER BASEBALL PLAYER: This is not about Darryl Strawberry the baseball star. This case is about a person that is very sick, been very sick for a very long time and needs a great deal of help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: Judge Florence Foster ignoring prosecution demands that Strawberry serve 18 months in prison for violating his parole, gave him one more chance and sent him back to treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE FLORENCE FOSTER, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: This court recognizes if we were to analogize to a nine inning baseball game, that you are at bat in the bottom of the ninth with two strikes against you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: In the area of drug addiction two things are certain: Prison sentences don't cure drug habits and treatment programs, at best, bring mixed results.
My take: America needs to stop dodging this problem and admit its failure. Let's work on new solutions and move beyond the same old arguments. Let me know what you think. Send an e-mail to askgreta@cnn.com. That's one word: askgreta. Next, on LARRY KING LIVE: The Bonny Bakley murder case. In an exclusive interview actor Gary Busey talks about his dealings with her.
I'm Greta Van Susteren in Washington. See you tomorrow.
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