Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Massachusetts Double Murder Suspect Charged; Interview With Middlesex District Attorney Martha Coakley; Update on Sago Mine Survivor
Aired February 9, 2006 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
We begin with a photograph, one of dozens that Neil and Rachel Entwistle posted on their own Web site. Take a look. That is Lillian Rose Entwistle, 9 months old. And this may be one of the last pictures ever taken of a girl who will never grow up. It's from December 2005. It shows Neil holding his daughter. Take a look at the caption below. It reads, "I love my daddy."
Tonight, the man lifting his child into the air is no longer a husband, no longer a father. Instead, he's an alleged killer, charged with the execution-style murders of Rachel and Lillian. Prosecutors say, he shot his wife, Rachel, point-blank in the head. She may have been asleep. They're not sure. He's also accused of shooting Lillian in the stomach, if you can imagine it.
And, keep in mind, her death was not immediate. This little baby took minutes to die.
Tonight, prosecutors say that the mystery is over, including the most troubling part of the puzzle: Why would anyone murder his wife and baby?
We're covering the story tonight from both sides of the Atlantic.
Paula Newton is in England.
And, at the scene of the crime, in Hopkinton, Massachusetts, is Jason Carroll. And we begin with him -- Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the outside, the family who lived in this suburban Boston home seemed perfectly normal. In the pictures posted on their Web site, the Entwistles appeared to be happy and smiling. But prosecutors say, Neil Entwistle was hiding a desperate secret, even from his own wife and friends.
We now know, Entwistle was struggling financially, so much so, prosecutors allege, it drove him to get a gun.
MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX, MASSACHUSETTS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Neil Entwistle, with a firearm that we believe he had secured at some time before that, from his father-in-law, Joseph Matterazzo, shot Rachel Entwistle in the head, and, then, proceeded to shoot baby Lillian, who was lying on the bed next to her mother.
We believe, possibly, that this was intended to be a murder/suicide, but we cannot confirm that.
CARROLL: Prosecutors say, Rachel Entwistle spoke to her mother on Thursday, January 19. That was the last time anyone from her family heard from her.
Detectives have now revealed they believe Entwistle committed the murders the next morning, Friday, January 20.
(on camera): Prosecutors have provided yet another detail. They say, after the murders, Entwistle took the .22-caliber gun that he had taken from Rachel's stepfather's gun collection. And, then, they say, that same afternoon of the murders, he then took the gun back to Rachel's stepfather's home, in Carver, just about an hour from here.
(voice-over): Police say it was a .22-caliber pistol, like this one, and that Entwistle put it back in its gun case. They say Rachel's stepfather was unaware it was ever missing.
They say Entwistle knew where the key to the gun case was hidden and previously had used the gun for target practice. On Saturday, January 21, around 5:00 a.m., police say Neil Entwistle bought a one- way ticket to London and boarded an 8:15 British Airways flight from Boston's Logan Airport.
He has been in seclusion until today, spending most of his time at his parents' home, 150 miles north of London. Rachel's family still cannot understand why he allegedly would kill his wife and daughter.
JOE FLAHERTY, RACHEL ENTWISTLE FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Rachel and Lilly loved Neil very much. Neil was a trusted husband and father. And it is incomprehensible how that love and trust betrayed -- was betrayed in the ultimate act of violence.
CARROLL: Police theorize, Entwistle committed the murders because he was out of work and sinking deeply into debt, due to his failed Internet businesses.
COAKLEY: He had no money and really had no assets, and, because his business was failing, may not -- may not have had any possibility -- or at least any apparent ability -- to provide income for himself and his family.
CARROLL: Investigators believe they have built a solid case, including evidence gathered this week. Authorities say, only two days ago, they received test results from the murder weapon linking Entwistle to the crime.
Prosecutors say, the fact that family and police twice failed to spot the bodies in the bedroom after the murders were committed should not hurt their case.
COAKLEY: And it was not a bloody crime scene. They were under covers. And, if you could have seen those, they were all bunched up. It was -- it would be very easy to miss them.
CARROLL: And Rachel's family continues to maintain their silence, not wanting to say anything that might jeopardize the case. Through a spokesperson, they did say that they do believe that the person responsible will be brought to justice -- Anderson.
COOPER: Jason, thanks. We are going to talk to that spokesperson shortly. We are also going to talk to the district attorney, who describes the crime scene in greater detail and some -- with some fascinating descriptions of what they actually found there.
It is in England where the case against Neil Entwistle could get very complicated.
For more on the extradition and the arrest, we head across the Atlantic to CNN's Paula Newton in London.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he was driven into the back entrance of a London court, Neil Entwistle made his first appearance since being accused of killing his wife and baby. Entwistle had surrendered his freedom to plainclothes police on a subway train here in West London, calmly and saying little. When the call came from Massachusetts police, Scotland Yard was ready.
CHRISTIAN WACLING, EYEWITNESS TO ENTWISTLE ARREST: There was a police car here, and there was a van over here.
NEWTON: This witness says he watched officers quietly walk Entwistle to an unmarked car. He had no idea the man arrested was the husband and father he had been so curious about.
WACLING: I thought, well, if he hadn't done anything, why did he come back to England, then?
NEWTON: For more than two weeks, Entwistle has been sheltered by his parents at his childhood home in Central England. But at some point in the last two days, he left. Police say he was in London, staying with friends, trying to escape all the media attention in his hometown.
Within a few hours of Entwistle's arrest, police showed up at his parents' doorstep, armed with search warrants. Neil's father, Cliff, goes into the garage with a flashlight. He seems to be helping with the search. Police later come out of the Entwistle home with bags of potential evidence, but with nothing to reveal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing from us. It's not our inquiry. It's an American inquiry.
NEWTON: Back in London, Entwistle was in court for his first hearing. Composed, and telling the court he was aware of the charges against him, he announced he would not consent to extradition. And that triggers a complicated process.
BEN WATSON, EXTRADITION ATTORNEY: This case might take between nine months and a year, if Mr. Entwistle decided to -- to fight at every stage.
NEWTON: And, when his hearing resumes Friday morning, Entwistle will ask to be released on bail. His lawyer has already lined up character witnesses.
NEWTON: Still, it will now take the approval of the British government and a meticulous legal process to get Neil Entwistle back in Massachusetts to face trial -- Anderson.
COOPER: Paula, thank you.
A lot of people are talking about the case against Entwistle, but there's only one person who is actually bringing the case to court, Martha Coakley. She's the Middlesex district attorney. She's prosecuting the accused double murderer.
I spoke to her a short time ago from Boston.
COOPER: You -- you said today that this was a possible murder- suicide. And -- and I know you can't talk specifics. What, in general, are some possible clues that a murder scene might also include suicide?
MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX, MASSACHUSETTS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, the scene itself.
Of course, when you look at domestic violence profile cases, you know, if something happens in the heat of passion, and it's unplanned, you would have more evidence of a fight, a crime scene. If it was something that had been planned, but the perpetrator wanted to get away, it probably would be planned better.
And, so, those two pieces of it, when we first found this scene, sort of didn't quite fit. There is some information we have I'm not at liberty to disclose that -- that lends some credibility to that theory. But the idea that he planned to do this because of financial situation or because he was overwhelmed is -- is really one of the theories that makes sense, under the circumstances.
COOPER: Was there any attempt to clean up the crime scene? Can you describe it?
COAKLEY: There -- there was no apparent attempt to clean up. In fact, it has been widely reported that there were two visits to the home by others, who did not even realize that Rachel and Lillian were there in the bedding.
The mother and child were found, one gunshot wound to Rachel's head, one to the baby, but under the covers. I mean, they may have been covered up. But there -- it -- it looks like that is where they were killed. It looks like they may have been dozing, sleeping. We don't know for sure.
COOPER: So, it is actually possible they were killed while asleep?
COAKLEY: It's possible.
COOPER: Thursday night, according to published reports, that was the last time Rachel's mother talked to Rachel. Do you know the time of death?
COAKLEY: We think -- our best guess -- and it is that -- is some time Friday morning, given what else we know now about him and his whereabouts.
COOPER: Is there more evidence pending that will give you a closer time of death, or is this pretty much as good as you are going to get?
COAKLEY: I think that's as close as we may get for now.
COOPER: Is -- is that going to be an impediment to your case?
COAKLEY: I don't believe so. I mean, I think we have enough other pieces in place, from various pieces of evidence, that it -- it will not.
COOPER: You -- you mentioned these financial problems. I mean, how -- how bad were they? Where were they?
COAKLEY: Well, we know that there was some debt that he owed in the U.K.
COOPER: Can -- can you say how much?
COAKLEY: I can't, not at this time.
COAKLEY: I'm not releasing that. But there was -- there was some debt.
And he came with her to the states in August. He tried to be self-employed. And there has been a lot about his Internet activities, but, at -- at -- at the very least, it wasn't generating any income for him.
It -- and -- and it appears that he both owes money, isn't -- no money's coming in, and, to that extent, that, at least as a financial situation, that could have caused him concern. And it's not apparent, at least until fairly recently, that Rachel was aware that there were some financial concerns. COOPER: But, recently, she had become aware of it?
COAKLEY: We have some information that that is the case. But it -- it was just sort of slowly becoming aware to her.
COOPER: I talked to the former headmaster of -- of his school back in England, you know, who -- all the teachers were saying, he was a lovely guy, the perfect student, model student, you know, couldn't have been nicer.
What's your impression of him?
COAKLEY: Well, of course, that's the impression that everybody had of him, including his in-laws, including his family and friends.
And that's, I think, part of what makes this, in some ways, so sad and somewhat inexplicable, but, also, why people are so interested in it. He's the totally unlikely defendant. There was nothing that might have indicated that this is the way this young marriage, this young family would have turned out. And that is what makes it so sad.
COOPER: There were some reports that Entwistle called his wife's family -- this was reported in a British tabloid -- and said -- quote -- "I don't know how I got here."
Is -- is there any truth to that story, to your knowledge?
COAKLEY: We -- we don't believe so. We believe that's pretty much inaccurate.
COOPER: What happens next?
COAKLEY: Well, tomorrow is a bail hearing. And he will have the opportunity to ask to post bail. We're not sure what will happen.
He's indicated, at least for now, he is going to fight extradition. So, it should be -- it could be a long series of hearings, because he has a right to be heard, and then he has a series of appeals. But, obviously, we will press forward, with the help of the United Kingdom, and attempt to get him back as soon as we can.
COOPER: So, what do we know about his life on the Internet? Neil Entwistle apparently had an entire -- entire other life on the Internet that a lot the friends didn't even know about.
After the break, we are going to take a look at his alleged online dealings and accusations of scams, things the police are closely examining.
Also ahead tonight, other news -- Scooter Libby and the investigation into the leak of a CIA operative name -- new information tonight about what he said and who in the Bush administration may be involved. And the latest on the lone survivor of the Sago Mine tragedy. Randy McCloy's wife speaks out about his condition and shares a letter he wrote to her when he was trapped and thought he would never see her family again.
Across America and around the world, this is 360.
COOPER: It is just heartbreaking, when you consider what Neil Entwistle is accused of doing.
The two-sided story of the Entwistle family had apparently played out on the Internet, on the family Web site, where images of the happier times, pictures of mother, Rachel, smiling and holding her daughter, Lillian. But now investigators are searching through other Web sites -- those are the pictures that were on the family Web site -- gathering information that may reveal the family's alleged darker side in their other Internet dealings, charges of cyber-scams involving suspected murderer Neil Entwistle.
CNN's Joe Johns investigates.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The way the prosecutor tells it, Neil Entwistle had hit rock bottom. He was in debt, with a house and a car and a business that was in trouble.
MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX, MASSACHUSETTS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He had no money and really had no assets, and, because his business was failing, may not -- may not have had any possibility -- or at least any apparent ability -- to provide income for himself and his family.
JOHNS: He was an out-of-work computer technician trying to make a living selling software on eBay. Just after the 1st of the year, in early January, something strange happened to his sales praying. Suddenly, it tanked. That was three weeks before his wife and baby were murdered.
Ina Steiner edits an online auction newsletter. We talked to her by Webcam and speakerphone about Entwistle's Internet sales collapse.
INA STEINER, EDITOR, AUCTIONBYTES.COM: From January 6 to January 9, this seller just got an amazing amount of, you know, 15 feedback, 14 of them negative. And things looked like they were really going downhill for this seller.
JOHNS: Downhill, because after months of positive customer feedback, a string of complaints posted on eBay -- they accused Entwistle, who was doing business under the name "srpublications," of taking people's money and failing to deliver the product.
A typical complaint: "Do not do business with this individual, as he does not exist. Thief."
(on camera): People were saying things like, "I paid for the product. No response to e-mails."
And, then up here, around January 9 of 2006, that's the very last communication from somebody who bought a product from "srpublications."
(voice-over): On that day, January 9, eBay suspended Entwistle's srpublications from trading. So, what was he selling? One buyer complained about software he had purchased, saying, both the C.D.s are pirated versions and are corrupt.
STEINER: Buyers were accusing him of selling them illegal software copies, copies of software, not the original disks.
JOHNS: And it apparently wasn't Entwistle's first foray into questionable online business endeavors. There are reports Entwistle was operating an Internet sales business in the United Kingdom, before he and his wife moved to Massachusetts.
Those reports suggest, those business activities were not successful and that, when he moved, he left behind unpaid business debts.
STEINER: But some of the things were -- really looked like maybe multi-level marketing or pyramid schemes, gambling, even the possibility of pornography. Some of the pictures in the listings had scantily-clad women.
JOHNS: But, for all the apparent shadiness of it, it was pretty small-time. We checked with the Federal Trade Commission. And they said they had no complaints on file against Entwistle. An Internet security expert says, even if Entwistle was engaging in fraud, it's not surprising that no one complained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most people who commit fraud on the Internet never get caught, and they never get prosecuted. A lot of fraud comes in under a dollar value that makes it worthwhile to even investigate.
JOHNS: Small-time and apparently under the radar -- but, today, some are asking whether Neil Entwistle's online business failures were linked in any way to the murders of his wife and baby.
Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Well, the Internet is also where the Entwistles posted more than 100 photographs of their family celebrating some of the happiest times.
Now, after being down for several days, the site is actually back online as a place to mourn -- on the main page, a photograph of Rachel holding Lillian on the day of her baptism. In the greeting above, the family writes, "Lillian is now crawling with confidence and enjoying three meals a day of her mummy's home-cooked food."
The ceremony, that baptism, was held in the exact same church where the mother and child were eulogized at their funeral. Here is another image from the family site. The date is Halloween 2005. In the picture, Rachel is holding Lillian. They're on the beach.
Then, there's a photograph of Neil, Lillian and Rachel. It's dated November '05. And it is from a trip to Martha's Vineyard. Two months after the photo was taken, prosecutors say that Neil shot Rachel in the head, and then Lillian in the stomach.
We are going to have more on the Entwistle murder case in just a moment.
But, first, Erica Hill, from Headline News, joins us with some of the other stories we're following -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson.
Insurgents have released a new video showing kidnapped American journalist Jill Carroll. In it, Carroll says she's fine, but calls on the U.S. to do whatever her captors want as quickly as possible, saying there is very short time. Carroll's kidnappers want the U.S. to release all female prisoners being held in Iraq. Four are in custody.
President Bush says al Qaeda was planning to strike the West Coast's tallest building. In a speech today, the president revealed a terrorist plot that was thwarted four years ago with the arrest of a key al Qaeda operative in Southeast Asia. According to Mr. Bush, terrorists were planning to fly a hijacked plane into the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles, and intended to get into the plane's cockpit using shoe bombs.
In Washington, the FDA's Advisory Committee wants the strongest possible safety labels on medicine that treats attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Now, this comes after reports that the deaths of 25 ADHD patients may be linked to the drugs. The FDA does not have to follow the committee's recommendations, but it normally does.
And the biggest awards event in music upstaged by television's biggest music show. The Grammy Awards on CBS actually lost the ratings war last night to none other than Fox's "American Idol." In fact, according to Nielsen Media Research, "American Idol"'s audience was nearly twice as large as the Grammys' when the two shows went head to head. Ouch.
How about that?
COOPER: You can't beat "American Idol." You just can't do it.
HILL: It is -- it is almost impossible. And one of the "Idols," of course, won last night, Kelly Clarkson.
COOPER: There you go. All right, Erica.
HILL: Good stuff.
COOPER: Thanks. Neil Entwistle has been arrested, charged with murder. So, what can we expect -- expect in the case? Coming up next on 360, we are going to examine the theories and evidence so far. What might they reveal?
Plus, the letter from a miner who thought he was going to die in the Sago Mine -- Randy McCloy's wife shares the note and gives the latest on her husband's condition -- when 360 continues.
COOPER: (AUDIO GAP) Entwistle behind bars in England tonight -- the DA is putting together a case. We will examine the evidence next so far -- next on 360.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COAKLEY: He's the totally unlikely defendant. There was nothing that might have indicated that this is the way this young marriage, this young family would have turned out. And that is what makes it so sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, those words from the district attorney of Middlesex County, Massachusetts, Martha Coakley -- as you have heard, she's already presenting theories and talking about the evidence, now that Neil Entwistle has been charged with murder.
Joining me now to discuss the case, in Miami Beach, Florida, defense attorney Jayne Weintraub, and, in Boston, former Massachusetts prosecutor Wendy Murphy.
Good to see both of you.
Wendy, the DA floated a murder-suicide theory at the press conference today, when I spoke with her. Without a suicide note, though, or a confession, how -- how do you prove that?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, I don't know, Anderson.
I suppose there's a possibility there's some evidence that she didn't talk about that suggests he was in some kind of desperate state. I don't buy it. I mean, I think that was the nicest thing she could have said, frankly, and that may be why she said it.
It doesn't explain everything. There was no evidence this guy was feeling desperate, expressing any kind of desperation that would lead to this kind of brutality. And let's face it -- he killed his wife, executed his baby. That's far more consistent with a rageful killing, something we have seen before. And I -- you know, I just think...
COOPER: So, why say it?
MURPHY: ... we are not getting -- well, I think we're not getting the whole story.
I think she's trying to be as fair as possible. There may be a couple of theories that she's thinking about, but this is the one that was the kindest to Neil. And, at this point, she has really got to be absolutely as fair as she can be, because he still isn't here yet.
MURPHY: And she has got to make extradition process...
COOPER: ... does that...
MURPHY: ... work smoothly.
COOPER: Does that make sense to you, Jayne?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, it doesn't make.
And it doesn't make sense that she even said it. Either she's got a note or there was a statement. And we know there wasn't a statement. So, there's either a note, or there is something in the computer. Or she's just floating a theory to see how it is going to work.
I mean, maybe she's thinking, why else would someone shoot a 9- month-old child? However, I don't think there's going to be any evidence to back it up. It is just a theory. It's just a speculation. And she shouldn't even be putting it out there...
COOPER: But, Jayne...
WEINTRAUB: ... and talking about it.
COOPER: ... does -- the DA did say that Entwistle borrowed the gun from his wife's stepfather, and that it was after Tuesday, once they got the didn't forensic tests on that gun back, that things seemed to -- to move forward.
WEINTRAUB: Well, it is obvious to me that they have -- that they know that it is from that gun.
The question is, they don't have him pulling the trigger. They don't have any gun residue. They don't have any gunpowder on him. They don't have anything on his clothing.
Unless they can link the fact that he previously did not ever have permission to have that gun, I think they still have a long, long road to go.
MURPHY: Jayne -- Jayne, did you not hear...
WEINTRAUB: Much to her credit, Ms. Coakley...
MURPHY: ... the press conference?
WEINTRAUB: ... kept reminding us, he's presumed innocent.
MURPHY: The -- look, the -- what she said at the press conference was not that mysterious.
She said, the gun is forensically connecting Rachel to Neil.
WEINTRAUB: It could be a fingerprint.
MURPHY: No, look, what that tells me is that his fingerprints or DNA are on the gun. That's why she said his forensics are connected.
WEINTRAUB: Don't know when it's from, Wendy.
MURPHY: And the -- the fact that Rachel is forensically connected means there was probably blowback from blood or brain matter on the gun. That is not a mystery. That is not a hard...
WEINTRAUB: There wouldn't be brain matter from a .22.
MURPHY: Jayne, that is slam-dunk evidence that he pulled the trigger. And she wouldn't have said it, if she didn't have physical forensic evidence that connected it, because, you know, why would she get out there and lie?
WEINTRAUB: She has the bullet. The bullet matches the gun.
MURPHY: She said she has forensic -- no, that's not what she said.
WEINTRAUB: That's forensic.
MURPHY: She said it connects Rachel to the gun and Neil to the gun. That is what she said.
WEINTRAUB: The bullet coming out of the body connecting it to the gun with his fingerprint is a forensic match.
However, his fingerprint doesn't tell me when it was put there. He might have used that gun three months ago. We don't know.
COOPER: Jayne -- Jayne, does it surprise you that he is fighting extradition?
WEINTRAUB: Not at all. It's exactly what he should do. All he's doing is exercising his rights, under the treaty.
COOPER: But what benefit -- doesn't it just drag...
WEINTRAUB: I mean...
COOPER: ... it out? What is the benefit of dragging it out?
WEINTRAUB: Anderson, it is not just dragging it out.
If he submits to the jurisdiction of the United States voluntarily, despite all of the spin that Ms. Coakley has been saying on every single show today and this evening, the bottom line is, she does not have the power, she does not have the right to wave the possibility of a federal death penalty charge here.
WEINTRAUB: I have personally tried cases...
WEINTRAUB: ... where the district attorney themselves did not ask for...
COOPER: Wait, because -- but -- but -- but Massachusetts...
WEINTRAUB: ... or recommend it, and the federal government, the United States attorney general, has gone forward with a federal death penalty...
MURPHY: That is such utter nonsense.
WEINTRAUB: ... case.
MURPHY: Look, there is absolutely no possibility of a federal death penalty...
MURPHY: ... charge here.
COOPER: .. just to explain to our viewers, Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty...
MURPHY: No, of course not.
COOPER: ... on the state level.
MURPHY: And there's...
WEINTRAUB: Massachusetts does not.
MURPHY: Massachusetts does not have it, and there is no evidence at all of any kind of potential federal charge here.
The DA was asked that question today at the press conference. She said no.
WEINTRAUB: ... have the right to waive it.
MURPHY: So -- so, people have to stop saying that's why he's dragging his feet. He is dragging his feet because he doesn't want to face the music, because he knows the case against him is super-strong.
What I worry about is in terms of the extradition treaty, whether the defense over there -- because they may have a year or two to do this -- is going to, you know, play the Boston Tea Party card and whip the Brits into a frenzy about those terrible Americans who are going to do bad injustice things to -- to their little boy. The bottom line is...
WEINTRAUB: There's a lynch mob waiting for him, Wendy.
WEINTRAUB: Why come back so fast?
MURPHY: These is about politics at this point.
And the British government should move quickly to send him back here, because Massachusetts is the most -- absolutely the most generous state in the country when it comes to protecting defendants' rights. Our state constitution is the most protective of defendants' rights. He can't get a fairer trial than he will get in Massachusetts.
COOPER: We are going to have leave it there.
WEINTRAUB: He won't get a fair trial anywhere in this country, Wendy.
And, number two, all he's doing is exercising his rights that he's being afforded. That's what our country is built on.
COOPER: And there's a bail hearing tomorrow. We will be watching.
Wendy Murphy, thanks.
Jayne Weintraub, thanks.
WEINTRAUB: You bet.
COOPER: Moving to politics, Washington expected Scooter Libby's grand jury testimony to be interesting, not this interesting.
The vice president's one-time right-hand man is saying his former boss -- that would be Dick Cheney -- gave him permission to leak classified information to the press -- more on that in a moment. And a shocking case grows still more shocking -- Neil Entwistle arrested. Then there's the speculation, what he meant to do, after killing his wife and daughter, was to kill himself. Murder-suicides, we will look at that and other cases when it has happened. What are the common links?
That's when 360 continues.
COOPER: Moving to politics, Washington expected Scooter Libby's grand jury testimony to be interesting, not this interesting. The vice president's one-time right-hand man is saying his former boss -- that would be Dick Cheney -- gave him permission to leak classified information to the press.
More on that in a moment.
And a shocking case grows still more shocking. Neil Entwistle arrested. Then there's the speculation of what he meant to do after killing his wife and daughter was to kill himself.
Murder-suicides, we'll look at that and other cases when it has happened. What are the common links?
That's when 360 continues.
COOPER: Well, this is pretty potent stuff politically, and legally very complicated. We're talking about Scooter Libby's testimony to the grand jury in Washington.
CNN's John King has confirmed the vice president's former right- hand man has said under oath that his superiors gave him permission to disclose classified information to the press. He didn't say who the superiors are, but the "National Journal" reports that Libby is talking about Vice President Dick Cheney himself authorizing those leaks.
CNN has obtained a letter that special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wrote to Libby's lawyers. And he writes -- and I quote -- "We also note that it is our understanding that Mr. Libby testified that he was authorized to disclose information about the NIE to the press by his superiors." NIE stands for National Intelligence Estimate.
We've asked John King and CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin to come help us understand the ramifications of all this.
Guys, thanks for being with us.
John, let me start off with you.
So Lewis "Scooter" Libby tells a grand jury that he was -- and I quote -- "authorized by his superiors" to disclose authorized information from an NIE.
What does that mean? What is that about?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what it's about specifically is a flashback, if you will, and a fascinating firsthand account of what was going on at the highest levels of the Bush administration back when they were trying to make the case for war in Iraq and facing skepticism in the news media, facing skepticism around the world, skepticism at the United Nations Security Council. What Scooter Libby said under oath and what is disclosed in this letter from the prosecutor is that he told the grand jury he was authorized by his superiors to disclose the National Intelligence Estimate, a highly-classified document about Saddam Hussein's weapons program, in conversations with reporters.
Now, how will that play at the trial? For one thing, we know the prosecutor wants to make the case to the jury that Scooter Libby, who had a reputation for operating in the shadows, was in the practice of talking to reporters and not averse to discussing classified information with them.
Other than that, is this directly relevant to the case? We'd have to get to the trial. And of course, Anderson, we'd like to have the full transcript of what Scooter Libby told the grand jury. We don't have that yet.
COOPER: Well, Jeff, what does it tell you about the defense and their strategy?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it certainly suggests that at least in part he's going to be saying -- Scooter Libby will be saying, look, I was doing the bidding of my superiors, specifically Dick Cheney, because that's the implication of what's said. However, we need to point out that what he's charged with is lying to the grand jury about his contacts with reporters. He's not charged with disclosing classified information improperly.
COOPER: So why go there? Why bring that up?
TOOBIN: Well, that's why it's a little confusing. I think in the broader context of the case, what it means is he's saying, look, I was just operating at the instigation of my superiors and they knew everything I was doing. So they approved it.
COOPER: John, I mean, doesn't the White House -- don't people give out classified information all the time?
KING: Well, the president gave out some today when he disclosed that that building in Los Angeles was an al Qaeda target. There is information released -- and, in fact, the administration did declassify the very NIE we're talking about here about 10, 12 days after Scooter Libby is alleged to have discussed it with Judith Miller of "The New York Times."
The president can make a decision to declassify information. Over time, information from previous administrations get declassified. The question here is, were they involved in such an intense effort to make their case for war and in such an intense effort to discredit administration critic Joe Wilson when he questioned the president's rationale for war, were they in such a high-stakes environment they decided on the fly in a political context, not in an informational context, to release classified information? That is certainly one of the issues at play here.
TOOBIN: See, I think John makes -- makes the important point here, which is that this document that came out today is really more important politically than it is legally, because it suggests that this same administration, which is now engaged in a criminal investigation of the leak of the National Security Agency material to "The New York Times" last month was authorizing people apparently willy-nilly just to talk to reporters about classified information. That seems to be a little hypocrisy. That's a political problem for the administration.
I don't know how relevant to Scooter Libby's case, which is not going to take place until next year, this document will turn out to be.
COOPER: And politically, John, I mean, that is a big deal?
KING: Well, it certainly is a big deal. We do know the vice president met with the special prosecutor. Presumably, the vice president was asked whether he authorized any conversations between Scooter Libby and reporters, whether they discussed classified information not only as part of the effort to discredit Joe Wilson, but whether or not they had any plan to disclose the identify of his wife who worked at the CIA.
Obviously the vice president has said, according to accounts we've reported on in the past, that he had no role in outing her, no role in disclosing her identity. But one of the possibilities here, that in some form, either as a witness or through another deposition, if there is a trial, the vice president could be a witness.
TOOBIN: By the way, this document does suggest much more than anything previously that Dick Cheney really might be a witness at this trial.
John King, thanks.
We're going to have more on the Entwistle murders coming up. The husband and father charged with the execution-style shootings of Rachel and Lillian. Did he kill his wife and daughter but lose the nerve to kill himself?
We're going to take a look at murder-suicides. We'll talk to a criminal profiler for some insights on that. Also, the Sago Mine survivor, Randy McCloy, a status report and what he wrote to his family when he thought he'd never be found alive again when 360 continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA COAKLEY, MASSACHUSETTS D.A.: The idea that he planned to do this because of a financial situation or because he was overwhelmed, although it may not appear it was that bad, may have been to him -- is really one of the theories that makes sense under the circumstances.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, not much about this makes sense. Today Massachusetts D.A. Martha Coakley said that it was Neil Entwistle who fired the shots that left his wife and their baby dead, shooting his wife in the head, shooting his little baby right in the stomach. It took her minutes to die.
He's now behind bars in England. The question is, did he spare a potential third victim, himself?
Suicide is a frequent choice for men who've just murdered their partners, and they take unanswered questions to the grave.
COAKLEY: Yesterday afternoon we applied through the Department of Justice in Washington for a provisional extradition arrest warrant for Neil Entwistle.
COOPER (voice over): Arrested for the murder of wife Rachel and 9-month-old daughter Lillian, from the start Neil Entwistle was the prime suspect to the American public, a person of interest to law enforcement. What surprised many was this...
COAKLEY: We believe possibly that this was intended to be a murder-suicide, but we cannot confirm that.
COOPER: Murder-suicides happen more often than we'd like to think. According to the "Journal of Forensic Sciences," more than a thousand deaths in the United States are due to murder-suicide every year.
In the last several weeks in Florida a police officer shot himself after killing his wife and another couple. In Georgia, a husband killed his wife, both displaced after Hurricane Katrina, both trying to rebuild their lives.
Dr. Paul Quinnett wrote "Suicide: The Forever Decision." He says more than 90 percent of all murder-suicides are carried out by men.
DR. PAUL QUINNETT, PRESIDENT, QPR INSTITUTE: There isn't any single explanation for these. There are other circumstances where the man may be about to be humiliated publicly, feels that he needs to care for his family in this pathological, terrible way before he ends his own life.
COOPER: District Attorney Martha Coakley says the Entwistle murders appear to be premeditated.
COAKLEY: On some time Friday morning, Neil Entwistle, with a firearm that we believe he had secured at some time before he had secured at some time before that from his father-in-law, Joseph Matterazzo, shot Rachel Entwistle in the head and then proceeded to shoot baby Lillian, who was lying on the bed next to her mother.
COOPER: Quinnett says premeditation is quite common in murder- suicides and familicides, murders of families.
QUINNETT: In most cases of murder-suicide in America, anyway, a firearm is used. And so one has to secure a firearm, bullets for that firearm, load that firearm, and point it and so forth. So there's usually a degree of methodological planning that goes into the act itself.
COOPER: He says once a murder is committed, however, not every event is followed with a planned suicide.
QUINNETT: It wouldn't be unreasonable for someone to change their mind and decide, no, I can't do this to myself, and then not carry that aspect of the plan out.
COOPER: The fact is no one can say why people follow through or back out of their murder-suicide plan. What we do know is, with every wife and child killed, there is a family left wondering why.
COOPER: Well, for more on this we're joined by Candice DeLong, a former FBI special agent and an expert in criminal profiling.
Thanks for being with us, Candice.
Why don't people follow through? I mean, if they plan a murder- suicide, why do men then back out?
CANDICE DELONG, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT & PROFILER: Well, sometimes it's because they didn't realize it was going to be as horrible as it turns out to be. Actually, they don't really fully understand what a bullet does to a human body. And it frightens them, and they decide they just don't want to do that to themselves.
COOPER: It's hard to imagine that anyone could do this to a baby. I mean, Rachel was is not the head, Lillian was shot in the stomach. According to her autopsy report, I mean, it took her minutes to die.
COOPER: What does that tell you?
DELONG: Well, I thought before Neil was arrested that the fact that the adult was shot in the head and the baby was shot in the stomach indicated to me that the killer just couldn't bring himself to shoot that beautiful, beautiful little girl, who certainly at 9 months old could never have harmed anyone emotionally, and he couldn't bring himself to destroy that beautiful little face, so he shot her in the stomach. He wanted her to die, he just couldn't destroy her in the face.
COOPER: And yet, I mean, it's such a bizarre concept because, I mean, just logically...
COOPER: ... it's more suffering to shoot her in the stomach.
DELONG: Well, he probably didn't think of that. But if you think about it, Anderson, our face is really the essence of who we are and our personality, and everything about us is really kind of right there in the face. And oftentimes, I think it just gives the killer pause if he does have strong feelings for someone that he just does not want to harm them or shoot them in the face.
Of course, he knew she would die. It's hard to understand.
COOPER: Yes, and especially when you're looking at those pictures. I mean, it's really -- it's almost too much to bear.
I talked to the D.A. She said there was no sign, really, of a cleanup attempt. Is that common?
DELONG: Yes. And -- well, if we look at everything that happened, allegedly, after the murder, that he covered the bodies with a blanket, left, drove the family car to the airport, buys a one-way ticket, leaves. Where does he go? Does he go to an island to hide? He goes home. He goes home to his parents.
Oftentimes, we see criminals after they commit an act going to where they feel safety and comfort. Their comfort zone, it's called. And it's usually their home.
It's not unusual that the crime scene wasn't cleaned up. It does -- I think the effort to cover the bodies also indicated to me -- a couple of weeks ago we talked about this, that the killer felt bad about what he did.
COOPER: You'd think, though -- I mean, if, according to the D.A., he replaced the weapon that he had used, put it back in the stepfather's home, that takes a certain level of planning.
COOPER: You'd think if you planned that much, you would plan to clean up the room, but I guess I'm describing sort of logic. And this is not a situation where logic necessarily dictates. DELONG: That's right. And one can't think of everything.
I mean, there does appear to be a certain degree of planning in this, taking the gun. We're not -- they're not exactly sure when he took the gun from the father-in-law. It doesn't make sense that he would do these other things that seemed to scream out that it was him, such as driving the family car, the only vehicle, to the airport and leaving it there.
That showed tremendous consciousness of guilt. He knew his wife would not need the car because she was dead. And yet, then he does something like taking the gun -- allegedly -- taking the gun back to put it where he found it doesn't make a lot of sense.
COOPER: It is -- it's just hard to believe. Candice DeLong, appreciate you adding your perspective. Thank you.
DELONG: You're welcome.
COOPER: Coming up, we're going to have more on Scooter Libby and the investigation into the leak of a CIA operative's name, the shocking testimony he gave to a grand jury about the Bush administration.
And the next best thing to hearing from the survivor of the Sago Mine disaster himself. Randy McCloy's wife Anna spoke out and shared some of what Randy wrote in a letter when he thought that he might die in that mine.
That when 360 continues.
COOPER: Well, it will be terrific and astonishing when the country can hear directly from the only man who really knows what happened that terrible day in the Sago Mine in West Virginia. But until Randy McCloy is able to talk, and we hope that is soon, the next best thing is to hear from those who are closest to him. And today we heard from the woman who is closest of all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA MCCLOY, RANDAL MCCLOY'S WIFE: He loves people. He loves our children and me. And I know 100 percent that it was our kids that pulled him through this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Anna McCloy just over a month ago. Her husband Randall was in a coma and had just been placed in a hyperbaric chamber in Pittsburgh while doctors tried desperately to counter the effects of the 42 hours he spent trapped in a carbon monoxide filled coal mine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MCCLOY: He's always told me no matter what -- because, you know, he knew he was in a dangerous job. And if something happened, he said he would survive because he had two kids and a wife that he loved and he would take care of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now Anna is speaking out again about just how far her husband has come in such a short time, and about the words he left for her and their children when he thought he might never see them again.
Today, a family spokeswoman confirmed to CNN that Randal wrote Anna a note in his darkest moments in that mine. A note that was delivered to her with Randal's mining helmet nearly two weeks ago.
It read in part, "Anna, I love you so much. To my son, trust in the lord. To my daughter, stay sweet." And he asked her not to grieve, writing, "I want to you be happy in life."
The spokeswoman also tells CNN Anna says Randal's condition is steadily improving. She's by his bedside almost constantly, feeding him his favorite foods, soft tacos with pinto beans from Taco Bell and cheeseburgers from Wendy's, and playing his music, Metallica and Hank Williams Jr.
And she says he laughs, sometimes really hard.
Anna says Randy is now breathing on his own. He bites his nails, tugs at his hair, tries to move his legs, and speaks the occasional word, but only to her. That's something Randy's doctors haven't heard yet, but the family spokeswoman told us doctors say it is not unusual for a patient in Randy's condition to respond to loved ones before they respond to medical personnel.
The doctors also say they can't predict how much brain damage Randy may have suffered or how long it will take him to recover.
For Anna, however, every tiny movement, every sound is a giant step towards seeing her husband well again. Today, the spokeswoman told CNN Anna said, "This is the best thing I've had in a long time. I feel really great about everything."
Erica Hill from Headline News joins us with some of the business stories we're following right now -- Erica.
HILL: Hey, Anderson.
Delta Airlines pilots not mincing words anymore. Their union said today the pilots will strike if their contract is thrown out as part of Delta's attempt to impose $325 million in concessions. And that's a little more straightforward than what leaders had been saying, that pilots would not willingly work without a contract.
For the third straight week, the 30-year mortgage rate is on the rise. It now stands at its highest level since late December. According to Freddie Mac nationwide survey, rates are now at 6.24 percent. That's up from 6.23 percent last week.
And she's also conquered media here on Earth, so, hey, why not head for the sky? Oprah and XM Satellite Radio inking a three-year deal to launch a channel which will feature the popular talk show host. The channel will start broadcasting in September. It will feature original programming, including a weekly reality show.
And he is a whole new man and wants his sweetie back, says the toy maker Mattel of the revamped Ken doll. Ken and his long-time squeeze Barbie, you may recall, split up a couple of years ago. But he is back in stores and apparently back in Barbie's heart.
It looks like he might have spent a little time at the gym, too, maybe at the hairdresser. Will love conquer all? Ah, the burning question -- Anderson.
HILL: Yes, the new Ken.
COOPER: There you go. The new Ken.
All right, Erica. Thanks.
So here's a question. Did the vice president, who doesn't actually love the media, tell his right-hand man to leak classified intelligence to the media? That story and White House reaction to it coming up.
Also, the people who knew Rachel and Lillian and Neil Entwistle in better times, their reaction to his arrest.
And the cartoon controversy, how to put out the fire that is sweeping from the Muslim world and the rest of the world.
From our corner of the word, you're watching 360.
COOPER: Even the questions are politically explosive about the selling of a war, the outing of a CIA officer, and whether officials at the highest levels of our government said it's OK to leak classified material to us.
ANNOUNCER: Leaks inside the Bush administration. Did Vice President Cheney give his top aid permission to leak classified intelligence to reporters? 360 has the story.
Neil Entwistle finally charged with murdering his wife and baby, now fighting a return to the U.S. for trial.
COAKLEY: When we get him back here, he will face trial. Until then, he's innocent.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, prosecutors say why he did it.
And medical mysteries. Imagine the world in fast forward.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like I walk past something and it's just a blur.
ANNOUNCER: You can't focus, you hate to be touched, a normal life is impossible. 360 investigates Asperger Syndrome.
ANNOUNCER: From across the U.S. and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
Live from the CNN studios in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Well, we begin tonight with what Scooter Libby has reportedly told a federal grand jury. The vice president's former right-hand man has reportedly said under oath that his superiors gave him permission to disclose classified information to the media, information to be used to make the case for the war in Iraq, then later to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence about weapons of mass destruction after the fact.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com