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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Polygamist Compound; Targeting Polygamy; Inside Polygamy; You Pay for It; Polygamists Under Fire; $70 Billion Tax Cut; The Laura Factor; NSA'S Got your Number; Priest Killed Nun; Priest Guilty of Murder; The Executioner?
Aired May 11, 2006 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening. New details tonight about Warren Jeffs' polygamist compound. A new word on the search for the man some call messiah, others say is evil incarnate.
ANNOUNCER: Searching for one of America's most wanted. Outlawed Polygamist Warren Jeffs. Still on the run, does his trail lead across the border?
Out of the compound and into the mainstream. Tonight, how some women escape polygamy, only to find more troubles ahead.
And a cop under fire, as a 3-year-old's life is in danger.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew we could not wait for Neil (ph).
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ANNOUNCER: Some say this man's a hero. So why is he sitting in jail?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened. I'm dealing with the consequences.
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ANNOUNCER: Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Good evening. We begin tonight with the search from British Columbia to Texas for Warren Jeffs. According to the FBI, the tips are coming in as fast as they can process them.
In recent days, agents have searched a home outside Denver for the fugitive polygamist. They found nothing there. Reports have also placed him in Mesquite, Nevada, and at his compound in Eldorado, Texas.
This is where Journalist John Krakauer told us Jeffs could be hiding, perhaps even planning his final stand.
CNN's Rick Sanchez is there.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On 1,700 fenced acres of west Texas, a village is springing up from the scrub. For the followers of Warren Jeffs, it's a kind of promised land.
They adhere to strict rules. For the women and children, hair pulled back, long dresses with leggings. They seem stuck in time. Purposely isolated to maintain a code of life based on old values, traditions, the early 1800s.
Just ask Local Newspaper Editor Randy Mankin, who first reported Jeffs' polygamist sect moved here.
RANDY MANKIN, ELDORADO SUCCESS: The prophet tells his people not to read papers or watch television, but someone in there has a satellite dish.
SANCHEZ: Mankin and others wonder if Jeffs and his deputies, while depriving his followers of news and modern influences, are themselves using them as a tool to help control his followers.
And over on top of his building, a wireless antenna, like this one, capable of supporting an Internet network inside the compound.
The local sheriff says what he and his deputies have found is anything but primitive.
DAVID DORAN, SCHLEICHER COUNTY SHERIFF: They're very sophisticated as far as electronics go. They're able to set up a perimeter around their property, to alert if somebody's coming in.
SANCHEZ: We found that ourselves when we visited the compound. We pulled out, they pulled in. When we approached, they left us in the dust. It's as if they were talking to each other on two-ways. The sheriff says they were.
DORAN: They have a scrambler on their radio system where an average person couldn't pick up a scanner and listen to their conversations.
SANCHEZ: Then there's a surveillance system, one that revealed itself to Randy Mankin one night when he was investigating the compound.
MANKIN: We were there on the county road, using some night vision surveillance, looking in toward the ranch and to see them looking back at us with night vision surveillance was kind of eerie.
SANCHEZ (on camera): You can't help but wonder what they're hiding here in west Texas. Why the computers and the two-ways and the surveillance equipment? Is it being used to keep people out? Or to keep their people in? (Voice-over): There are people who have left the organization who say that their communications, their phone calls have been listened to by someone?
SANCHEZ: That's true?
MANKIN: That's true.
SANCHEZ (on camera): A private detective, who has been investigating Warren Jeffs, tells us about one case where a follower's phone call was monitored. It was the wife of a polygamist who was planning to flee, but was discovered before she was able to do so.
It is cases like that which show how Jeffs gets his real knowledge. Knowledge that, to his followers makes him seem like a prophet.
Rick Sanchez, CNN, Eldorado, Texas.
COOPER: Well, right behind the FBI is a long list of people who cannot wait to see Warren Jeffs caught and locked away. Many of them used to practice polygamy themselves. They used to follow Warren Jeffs. You are about to meet a woman who has made it her mission to end the practice of polygamy in America, a lifestyle that she herself once embraced.
Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vicky Prunty still remembers her wedding day. She was looking forward to years of marital bliss. Instead, after seven years, her husband became a polygamist and added another wife.
(On camera): What does it feel like to share your husband with another woman?
VICKY PRUNTY, FORMER POLYGAMIST: It's not a natural feeling to share the one you love with other women. And it brought a lot of sorrow.
KAYE (voice-over): For Vicky, it was unbearable. She ran away with her children. Her husband thought she was Satan.
PRUNTY: He would pray for my death with the children, but even before that, they really believed that I had demons, and he would try to cast the demons out of me so that I was more obedient.
KAYE: Unsure where to turn, Vicky married another polygamist. The marriage lasted just a few months. PRUNTY: The husband sat all of his wives down and said, he never believed in it, but what men wouldn't want to have sex with more than one wife?
KAYE (on camera): Was that a breaking point for you?
PRUNTY: Oh, I absolutely felt exploited. I remember going into the shower after hearing that and just scrubbing myself.
KAYE (voice-over): Again, Vicky ran. This time for good. But she was now a single mom with six children, no identity, no money, no knowledge of how the rest of the world works.
PRUNTY: I was afraid of even going into the grocery store and the scanners that you see today, all the labels on the food items, the bar codes, to us was the mark of the beast.
KAYE (on camera): Vicky says she felt like a refuge in a new world. A lot of polygamist wives don't have driver's licenses or credit cards, no bank account or social security card. And their children don't even have birth certificates. They just don't believe in them.
(Voice-over): Vicky landed on her feet and started Tapestry against Polygamy, a group to help polygamist wives enter the mainstream.
PRUNTY: Our lives are so interwoven, and because of our experiences, we're in a way unraveling a tapestry and creating a new one.
KAYE: Hundreds of women have turned to Tapestry for help, but helping others means danger.
(On camera): Have you personally been threatened?
PRUNTY: They talked to one of my children and asked them if I was their mother and said that they were watching them as they walked home from school.
KAYE: Why are you so determined to help the other women?
PRUNTY: Once you know what's going on, you have a moral responsibility to do something about it. I felt an obligation to see things to an end.
KAYE (voice-over): And to Vicky, the only end is the end of polygamy.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Salt Lake City, Utah.
COOPER: Well, what happens if Warren Jeffs is apprehended, sent to jail or perhaps even killed when authorities move against him? Author John Krakauer, who researched polygamist communities for his book, "Under the Banner of Heaven," says that would make Warren Jeffs a martyr. Some of his followers might even seek revenge for years to come.
I spoke to John Krakauer earlier.
COOPER: And this notion of revenge killings, I mean, that's based in religious doctrine?
JOHN KRAKAUER, AUTHOR, "UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN": That's right. And it's very controversial. Obviously, the mainstream church is very different than it was in the 19th century. But in that century, the doctrine of blood atonement was official doctrine.
COOPER: Blood atonement?
KRAKAUER: Blood atonement, it's called. It was most prevalent in Utah in the mid-19th century, in the 1850s, 1860s, when Utah was at war with the country. And the Mormon church believed at that time, and the fundamentalists believe today, that some crime, some sins were so great, they had to be atoned by spilling the sinner's blood on the ground. And so -- and if you kill someone who deserves to be blood atoned, if you blood atone them, as they say, then that's no crime.
And Warren has preached that openly in numerous sermons. It's, you know, it's one of those beliefs it. And it sounds alarmist and it's easy to make too much of it, but it needs to be taken seriously.
I mean, these people, by nature, Warren's followers, are not violent. They're good people, most of them. They're good, hard working people. They happen to believe in a very dangerous man. And to protect him or to avenge his death, they would do things that they wouldn't do ordinarily because they are true believers. And you have to take that seriously.
COOPER: You know, there are some who will say, look, this is just a group's religious beliefs and -- I mean, in your book, I was reading after there was this raid on a polygamist group back -- I think it was in the '60s -- that ended very badly in bloodshed, there was almost an up swell of support for polygamists. People felt sorry for them. They felt like they were being persecuted. Is that the same case -- I mean, are these people just being persecuted?
KRAKAUER: No, no. Not at all. You know, you can have -- you can believe whatever you want to do. It's when your actions break laws and you refuse to adhere to the laws of the nation or state, then, you know, the First Amendment doesn't apply. And that's what's going on here. There have been all kinds of crimes committed, abuses of women and children, financial scams, theft.
This isn't a religious question, this is a mistake -- I mean, Warren and his people have tried -- have successfully turned this into a religious issue for years, ever since the '53 raid. We're just good old boys, who have a little different idea of marriage down here in the desert. You know, leave us alone, let us practice our faith.
Well, it's not. It's much more than that. There's something very evil right beneath the surface. And it needs to be nipped. It needs to be stopped. I mean, this is -- great damage has been done to hundreds, thousands of people and will continue to be done if something isn't done.
I mean, you can't -- law enforcement's in a bind. They can't do nothing. They've got to -- Warren Jeffs, contrary to what some people have said, needs to be on the 10 most wanted list. He deserves to be there. He is a person of that, you know, his evil is of that magnitude. But to deal with him is going to be very difficult. And that remains to be seen what's going to happen next.
COOPER: John Krakauer, again, appreciate you joining us. Thanks.
COOPER: Well, besides being a self-proclaimed messenger of God, Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs has held more earthly occupations. Here's the raw data.
Jeffs was a teacher and a principal of his own private school, where the day apparently began with hymns, never the Pledge of Allegiance.
The FBI also said that Jeffs is an accountant.
There is, of course, some irony in that. Authorities will tell you that Jeffs and some of his followers are also tax cheats.
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MARK SHURTLEFF, UTAH ATTORNEY GENERAL: They hate the government. They will bleed it. They will take everything they can from it through welfare, through tax evasion and fraud.
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COOPER: Coming up, we'll tell you how their polygamist community is costing you money.
Plus, her husband is getting the low poll numbers, but First Lady Laura Bush is riding high. We'll see how Republicans are hoping to use that to their advantage this fall.
And taxes are getting cut again. Of course, not everyone is getting the same break. We're covering all the angles. The winners, the losers and the politics behind it all, when 360 continues.
COOPER: Warren Jeffs' alleged sexual exploitation of women and children is reason enough to bring him to justice. But there is another. And it touches every taxpayer. According to his accusers, Jeffs helps finance his operation by stealing tax dollars -- your tax dollars.
Again, here's CNN's Randi Kaye, "Keeping them Honest."
KAYE: Warren Jeffs may live thousands of miles from you, but he may not be that far from your wallet. Jeffs and his followers are costing you money and getting away with it, critics say, by hiding behind religion.
MARK SHURTLEFF, UTAH ATTORNEY GENERAL: Their religious belief is that they are to, what they call bleed the beast, the beast being the government. Why they hate the government, they will bleed it. They will take everything they can from it through welfare, through tax evasion and fraud.
KAYE: You see, as practicing polygamists, Jeffs and his group believe it's their religious right to have multiple wives and dozens of children and often lean on taxpayers to foot the bill.
(On camera): Here's how it works, the men have multiple wives, but only one marriage is recognized as legal by the state of Utah. So the rest of the wives claim to be single moms, struggling to raise a houseful of dependents. That makes them eligible for government aid. So they collect welfare -- lots of it. And it's all legal.
SHURTLEFF: More than 65 percent of the people are on welfare, they're on food stamps, compared to about 6 percent in the general populations.
KAYE (voice-over): Keeping Warren Jeffs and his followers honest is a challenge.
SHURTLEFF: He's like a crime boss. I mean, he runs an organization, an empire, where he has absolute control.
KAYE: Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff hasn't filed charges, but he's investigating Jeffs for cooking the books, avoiding taxes, even setting up offshore accounts.
SHURTLEFF: He has them convinced from the moment they're born that he is God on earth, and that if you disobey him, if you leave his church, if you disobey his commandments, then you will burn in hell forever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To say nothing, do nothing...
KAYE (on camera): A judge appointed Accountant Bruce Wisan to take control of the group's $110 million trust and the land in it.
(Voice-over): Wisan's biggest challenge? Collecting more than $1 million in overdue property taxes from polygamist property owners living in Colorado City, Arizona, where Jeffs' church is based. (On camera): Is it their responsibility to pay?
BRUCE WISAN, ACCOUNTANT: Well, it is. And they've received benefits of living on the trust land for free. They didn't pay for the land. In many cases, community efforts built the houses. So all they have to pay is utilities and property taxes. I don't think that's unreasonable.
KAYE (voice-over): Why they stopped paying? Because when Wisan took control of the trust, Jeffs ordered his members to stop paying taxes.
So the standoff continues between religion and real estate and between Warren Jeffs and those hot on his trail. The question is how much will it cost you before Jeffs is caught?
Randi Kaye, CNN, Salt Lake City, Utah.
COOPER: Other polygamists fear the attention that Jeffs and his sect are getting is going to pressure authorities to crack down on their families.
In Canada an American polygamist may get deported. We'll give you a rare look inside a polygamist family now fearful of what will happen to them.
Plus, a verdict in the case of a priest charged with the bizarre ritual murder of a nun. The latest from the courtroom, when 360 continues.
COOPER: We found a former follower of Warren Jeffs living in Canada with his many wives and dozens of children. Now, this man no longer follows Jeffs, but he is a polygamist. And because it's illegal in Canada, he now fears the government's going to crack down on him.
CNN's Dan Simon reports from British Columbia.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It looks like a motel, but it's home for Winston Blackmore and his wives -- about 20, he told CNN, and their children -- about 100 of them.
Polygamy is illegal in Canada, but the family has escaped a government crackdown, until now.
You're in this country now illegally?
EDITH BARLOW, WIFE OF POLYGAMIST: Yes.
SIMON: Edith Barlow came to Bountiful more than 10 years ago from Colorado City, Arizona, to marry Blackmore and have children. But now she's been told she has to leave the country or face deportation.
Her application to become a Canadian citizen was turned down.
BARLOW: MY biggest thing is I don't understand why I can't be here with them.
SIMON: You're breaking the law.
BARLOW: Well, that's true, but I don't have any other options.
SIMON: That's because she says leaving would also mean leaving her children behind -- five of them, from 16 months to 8 years old, all born in Canada.
If you wanted to, could you just take your kids with you back to the States?
BARLOW: My children have every right to be in Canada, and that's where they want to be. And that's where their father wants them to be.
SIMON: Edith is not alone. Two of Blackmore's other wives, including Marsha Chatwin, are also facing deportation.
What happens if the Canadian government decides that they want to deport you back to the U.S.?
MARSHA CHATWIN, WIFE OF POLYGAMIST: Well, they'd have to drag me because I don't want to leave my children.
SIMON: But these aren't the family's only problems. Blackmore says he could face trouble for having sex with some of his wives when they were in their teens. In Canada, a girl can marry at 16, but if they were any younger Blackmore could be arrested and prosecuted for having sex with a minor.
Were any of the women under 16 when you married them?
WINSTON BLACKMORE, POLYGAMIST: Yes, just barely.
SIMON: Just barely?
BLACKMORE: Just barely.
SIMON: Blackmore didn't exactly say how many of his wives were under 16 when they married.
BLACKMORE: There was one that was and one that lied about her age, but that's not unusual for women, is it?
SIMON: Blackmore might be laughing now, but he knows there's a real possibility he could be thrown in prison. He says the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Canada's equivalent of the FBI, has been interviewing him and his wives about their age when they married and first had sex.
The agency declined to confirm it's investigating Blackmore and his wives. It did say quote, "We do have an active investigation...but there's no firm timeline."
Blackmore and his wives think they know why, after years of living a polygamist life, the government is now investigating them. They believe the FBI's hunt for Fugitive Polygamy Leader Warren Jeffs has cast a new and negative light on the polygamist lifestyle.
How do you convince the government that what they're doing is wrong?
CHATWIN: That's why I'm here, to tell them.
SIMON: A large polygamist family under pressure and on the verge of breaking apart.
COOPER: Why did Blackmore break away or get removed by Warren Jeffs as head of the fundamentalist church up in Bountiful?
SIMON (on camera): Well, what happened is Blackmore started challenging Jeffs' authority. Jeffs was coming in here and he was removing people from the church. He was ex-communicating them. And Blackmore had a big problem with that.
Also, Jeffs, you know, is a self-proclaimed prophet. And he was making certain predictions. And when they didn't happen, Blackmore thought this guy was bogus and he voiced it to certain people in the church. Jeffs, obviously, didn't like it and tossed him out.
COOPER: Interesting. Dan Simon, thanks.
From polygamy to politics tonight. Big developments in Washington today. Congress passing a tax cut. The question is, how much is going to end up in your pocket? Maybe not as much as you think. We'll crunch the numbers next.
Plus the moment that changed three lives forever.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's your daddy? Where's your daddy, honey? (gunfire)
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COOPER: It was all caught on videotape. And now, the police officer is serving time. What happened on that dark night, when 360 continues.
COOPER: The president is expected to sign a $70 billion tax cut extension, passed by the Senate today. Critics call it a gift to the wealthy, others say it will eliminate an enormous tax burden on the Middle Class. Whatever people think of it, it is pretty much a done deal.
So we asked CNN's John Roberts to run the numbers.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another giveaway to the rich, is how Democrats put it, leaving little for the Middle Class.
REP. ALCEE HASTINGS (D), FLORIDA: That amounts to just a little bit more than a tank of gas.
ROBERTS: Just the tonic the economy needs, according to Republicans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's something that's important to keep this economy coming.
ROBERTS: So who is right? According to the moderately liberal Tax Policy Institute, low income earners, $20,000 to $30,000 a year, will have their taxes reduced by about $9; $50,000 to $75,000, $110; $100,000 to $200,000, just shy of $1,400. But if you make over a million you'll save a whopping $42,000.
LEN BURNHAM, TAX POLICY INSTITUTE: You would expect, of course, the tax cut to be bigger for higher income people. But even as a share of income, it grows. The higher your income is, the larger the tax cut is as a share of income.
ROBERTS: So, are tax cuts good for the economy? Congress has been slicing tax rates for five years. GDP is humming along, the Dow is flirting with record territory.
BURNHAM: The stock market was last in record territory in the late 1990s when tax rates on capital gains were higher than they are now.
ROBERTS: But what has even nonpartisan observers really ticked off is what they call a revenue raising gimmick to keep the cost of the bill below $70 billion. A price tag Republicans could pass with a simple majority. It would allow investors to convert traditional IRAs, funded with pretax dollars into so-called Roth IRAs, by paying taxes on the account's investment gains.
The bill's supporters say it will raise almost $6.5 billion over the next 10 years. But because Roth IRAs grow tax free in the decades after that, critics say, it will cost the government some $35 billion.
STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYERS FOR COMMON SENSE: This is all about taking care of the now and forgetting the future. This is denying future generations some of the tax revenue that they were anticipating to help pay for the cost of government then. ROBERTS (on camera): So how does that tax cut break down across the country? The Liberal National Women's Law Center says just 0.2 percent of 1 percent of all American households will get back that $42,000 money. The vast majority, more than 77 percent -- 113 million households -- will get back an average of $30.
John Roberts, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Some other numbers now. Poll numbers -- not the president's, the first lady's. Presidential spouses really have no official duties. Ceremonial duties, yes, but not official ones. So it's not supposed to matter what Americans think of them. But it frequently does, especially when it's an election year and there's money to be raised and candidates to help.
Here's CNN's John King.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's give a warm welcome to Congressman Christopher Shays and Mrs. Laura Bush.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's no question, this member of the Bush family is welcome on the campaign trail and for good reason. First Lady Laura Bush remains popular at a time her husband is not. A 61 percent approval rating in a new CNN poll, after 34 percent for the president.
Adding to his woes is rising Republican discontent about record deficits, rising gas prices, the Iraq war and the Bush immigration policy many conservatives believes rewards law breakers.
STANLEY GREENBERG, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: The reason why the wrong track right now is going -- is going south, is not because of Democrats. It's going south now because of, you know, Republicans. We have, in our polls, 40 percent of Republicans saying the country's headed in the wrong direction.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John Porter deserves to be reelected.
KING: At one recent campaign event, the president made light of his political predicament.
BUSH: Truth of the matter is, Porter said, you know, why don't we invite Laura and leave you at home, George W.
KING: The first lady is taking a higher midterm campaign profile, raising some $7 million so far, and often popping up in places where the president's standing is especially poor.
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Here in Connecticut, there are few advocates for young people as tireless as Congresswoman Johnson. KING: Amy Walter tracks congressional races and says more often than not, the first lady's stops are in suburban areas where moderate swing voters, especially women, are mad at the president, yet critical to Republican chances this year.
AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: So the person you want to bring up to help you with fundraising from White House, somebody who gets a lot of attention, brings the access and the star power of the White House, but doesn't bring the political baggage is the first lady.
KING: Still, Mrs. Bush is not immune from the administration's political slump. At 61 approval rating now, is down 20 points from January. But her standing is still much higher than the president's or the vice president's. So Democrats expect to see more of the first lady in key races, and perhaps doing more than just raising money.
LISA CAPUTO, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON PRESS SECRETARY: She could be used to convey a message. Karl Rove and company would be wise to look at how to utilize the popularity of this first lady to help her husband.
KING (on camera): But while she is without a doubt a campaign asset, there are limits. The Republicans' biggest worry is that disillusioned conservatives will stay home in November and delayed campaign appeals to the GOP base will come from the president, not the first lady.
John King, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Well, more numbers now. From poll numbers to phone numbers. Specifically, your phone number. Looks like the government may be tracking your calls. A report published in today's "USA Today," says the domestic surveillance program run by the NSA, the National Security Agency, is far wider reaching than previously thought.
Here's CNN's David Ensor.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The newspaper report that the National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans with help from AT&T, Verizon and Bell South, hit the Senate and the Bush administration like a ton of bricks.
REP. PATRICK LEAHY (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Now, are you telling me that tens of millions of Americans are involved with al Qaeda? If that's the case, we've really failed in any kind of a war on terror.
ENSOR: The timing could hardly be worse for the administration, given that the president's nominee for CIA director, General Michael Hayden, on the Hill, seeking support, was director of the NSA when the program to collect phone call data on Americans reportedly started, after the 9/11 attack.
GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: All I would want to say is that everything the NSA does is lawful and very carefully done.
ENSOR: That, from the general, after the president had already been out doing damage control.
G. BUSH: The privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities.
ENSOR: So what is the point of collecting all the billions of telephone numbers we all call and putting them into the massive Cray computers out at the NSA headquarters? To look for patterns, experts say, that might catch a terrorist sleeper cell in this country.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: This data might help the government identify a communication link between the known or suspected al Qaeda operative abroad and one at home that had multiple cutouts within it, meaning it was not a direct communication between Terrorist A and Terrorist B, but they worked through a series of intermediaries -- C, D, E and F.
ENSOR: The government can collect numbers of C, D, E and F, without needing to know their names or what they say.
FALKENRATH: Big Brother is not listening to those calls. Does not know what the content is.
ENSOR: The phone companies declined comment, but the idea of Big Brother may have most Americans' complete phone call records strikes some as outrageous.
JAMES BAMFORD, AUTHOR, "BODY OF SECRETS": That doesn't give you a right to spy on everybody just because you think you're going to prevent terrorism. There's got to be a real reason before you start spying on Americans. I mean, how many people are killed every day by people in stickups or people that rob 7-Elevens? Does that mean that we begin spying on everybody that goes into a 7-Eleven?
ENSOR (on camera): A knowledgeable former U.S. official says the program is legal because there is no law against the government accepting information voluntarily provided.
While the companies may not turn over names and addresses, a long list of phone numbers only, can, experts say, be legally given to the government. Of course, anyone with Internet access can then trace most telephone numbers to a person.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Coming up, judgment day for a priest accused of murder. Prosecutors said he stabbed a nun to death. Today the jury announced its verdict. We'll have that.
Plus, a police officer now behind bars.
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DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): You're in the same area where they keep death row inmates, the most dangerous criminals.
BILLY ANDERS, FORMER OTERO COUNTY SHERIFF SGT.: It happened. I'm dealing with the consequences.
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COOPER: How a man who became a hero to many ended up in jail. His story, when 360 continues.
COOPER: It has taken more than 25 years, but today a Catholic priest, long suspected of killing a nun, was convicted of the ritual like murder. For the jury, the verdict ends a strange and really shocking case, one full of religious symbols and blood-soaked evidence.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim was in the Ohio courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We the jury -- will the defendant rise -- find the defendant guilty of murder.
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sighs of both shock and relief in the courtroom as Father Gerald Robinson was convicted of the heinous killing of a nun 26 years ago.
Prosecutor Dean Mandros downplayed the bizarre facts surrounding the case.
DEAN MANDROS, LUCAS COUNTY ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR: Ultimately this was just a murder case where a woman met a very horrific and undeserved death.
OPPENHEIM: It appeared to be a ritualistic killing. Sister Margaret Ann Pahl was found dead in the chapel of Mercy Hospital on Easter weekend 1980. She'd been strangled and stabbed at least 31 times.
Father Robinson, who worked with Sister Pahl, was questioned, but never charged. The case went cold.
(On camera): Twenty-three years later, in 2003, a break. On a hunch, cold case investigators reopened the case. Using modern forensic technology, they linked Father Robinson to the crime. He was arrested.
(Voice-over): At the start of the trial, prosecutors admitted they had no motive, but they focused on a letter opener found in Father Robinson's apartment, saying they could prove it was the murder weapon.
Henry Lee, a renowned forensic expert, said the altar cloth found wrapped around the nun's body was stained with an impression very similar to a seal on the letter opener.
HENRY LEE, FORENSIC EXPERT: All I can conclude is similar to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you exclude it?
LEE: I cannot exclude.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it consistent?
LEE: It's consistent.
OPPENHEIM: Perhaps the most disturbing testimony came from another priest, Father Jeffrey Grob, an expert on the occult. He told the jury that the victim's stab wounds were in the shape of an upside down cross, and that someone with detailed knowledge of church rituals made them.
REV. JEFFREY GROB, ARCHDIOCESE OF CHICAGO: The inverted cross is a mockery to God. It's a mockery to the person. Again, you're taking someone that's dedicated to God and every aspect that you can, you're violating.
OPPENHEIM: But the defense portrayed Father Robinson as a gentle man of the cloth, who had no possible motive to kill a nun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And your indication as to his demeanor was a mild, quiet man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct.
OPPENHEIM: He also raised doubts about the letter opener. Instead, pointing to a pair of scissors missing from the chapel.
The jury deliberated only six hours and 25 minutes and returned unanimously convinced the 68-year-old priest was guilty. Moments later he was led away.
For Defense Attorney John Thebes, the defeat seemed personal.
JOHN THEBES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Today is difficult. But the jury has spoken.
OPPENHEIM: Father Robinson's attorneys will appeal. But the priest must now begin serving a sentence of 15 years to life, perhaps the only person who knows why Sister Pahl was killed in that chapel 26 years ago.
Keith Oppenheim, CNN, Toledo, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: "COURT TV's" Beth Karas and Jami Floyd know the case inside and out. They joined me earlier tonight.
COOPER: Beth, you've been in the courtroom since the beginning of the trial. Were you surprised by the verdict?
BETH KARAS, "COURT TV" NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You know, I really wouldn't have been surprised by either verdict, guilty or not guilty. Cases usually don't get better with age. But what surprised me was only six plus hours of deliberation, no real questions about the evidence, and yet they were unanimous on guilt.
COOPER: You -- and Jamie, you thought the prosecution's case was weak?
JAMI FLOYD, "COURT TV" NEWS ANCHOR: I did. And I still do. While I don't like to undercut a jury verdict because I have so much respect for the people who serve on juries, but I think it was largely circumstantial -- entirely circumstantial. And it wasn't a mountain, it was a molehill of evidence.
And as Beth said, they came back very, very quickly. So I'm troubled by the verdict -- Anderson.
COOPER: Do you think they're actually grounds for appeal though? I mean, their lawyers are saying there is, I don't quite see what the grounds are.
FLOYD: I think you're right. I think this prosecution, although they didn't have a whole lot of evidence, they tried the case very well with the evidence they had. They didn't make the kinds of errors that give an opening for appeal.
And appeals are based on the law, not on the facts. You can't revisit the jury's finding of fact. It's all about the law, and I don't think this were any violations there. So I don't think he has good grounds for appeal even though I have trouble with the verdict.
COOPER: Beth, there have been allegations of a cover-up by Toledo Catholic authorities back then. How seriously are those accusations being taken? Or is that just sort of courtroom rumor and gossip?
KARAS: No, it was not gossip, Anderson. When the police asked for the diocese to turn over voluntarily the personnel file of Father Robinson, they gave three pages.
After a few months of research on canon law, learning about how they keep records, they went in with a search warrant. That's very unusual for law enforcement to have to search a diocese, and they did twice. And they found about 144 more documents, many of them quite relevant to the case.
COOPER: Is there talk, though, Beth, I mean, of actually moving forward with charges against the diocese?
KARAS: The district attorney here, called prosecuting attorney, wouldn't answer that question. I don't know if they're going to move forward with any sort of obstruction charges, but they did not cooperate fully regarding this murder investigation.
COOPER: And Jami, you questioned the evidence. But I mean, there was a number -- there was a large amount of evidence which wasn't even admitted, which is pretty creepy stuff. I mean, pictures of corpses in caskets that were found inside this priest's home. And he failed some lie detector tests.
FLOYD: Yes, and Beth Karas had an exclusive to some pretty explosive stuff. And I got to tell you, Anderson, I didn't say I didn't think the guy was creepy. I didn't even say I didn't think the guy was guilty. What I was talking about is the evidence the jury had.
COOPER: Beth, what was this? I mean, photographs of corpses in coffins?
KARAS: Yes, Anderson, I saw some of them. When the police executed a search warrant of his house on April 23, 2004, the day he was arrested, they found a little pamphlet on the occult and they found approximately 500 -- maybe a little bit less -- photographs, a collection of people in caskets. Now, these are not recent. They're old. Some look like they might even be 100 years old. But this was just sort of a morbid interest he had in collecting people -- dead people in caskets.
FLOYD: And there were four other women at least who had made allegations against this priest. And then also they found a pamphlet related to the occult and sacrificial activities.
COOPER: And he had sort of underlined it pretty heavily.
FLOYD: And he made markings on it. So, definitely, there's a lot of food for thought there for anyone who thinks Father Robinson may not be guilty of this crime, especially because one of the women who made those earlier allegations was a nun, and she described things eerily similar to this crime scene and this crime victim who was also a nun. But again, in court, none of that came in. Jury never heard it. And I think this jury didn't have the evidence.
COOPER: Jami Floyd, Beth Karas, thanks.
COOPER: The suspect was in handcuffs when the officer shot him. It was caught on tape. Some called it rough justice. Others say he's a renegade cop. In a moment, you can decide for yourself.
First Erica Hill with the business headlines -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. A tough day on Wall Street. The big three indices all down, anywhere from about 1 percent for the Dow, to more than 2 percent for the NASDAQ. Traders blaming inflation worries, oil worries and the high price of gold. That said, retail sales did rise in April, up 0.5 percent, according to the Commerce Department, but -- and there is a but here -- that's actually lower than expected, with much of the dollar gains due to the rising price of gasoline, not to more buying in stores or online.
And speaking of buts, Pfizer getting the federal OK to market a pill to help smokers kick some -- butts, that is. The pill is called Chantix. Pfizer expects to sell about $1.2 billion worth by 2010 -- Anderson.
COOPER: Erica Hill, thanks.
Well, a cop killed a killer. To some he's a hero. To others, his actions must be punished. You can judge for yourself because what happened, it was all caught on tape. So don't you render your verdict and see it and hear how and why he did it when 360 continues.
COOPER: All caught on videotape, a police officer reacting to his partner's murder by shooting the man who killed him. Tonight that officer, now an ex-cop sits in a New Mexico prison. And there's no shortage of opinion about whether the punishment fits the crime.
CNN's Dan Simon has the story.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Billy Andrews has seen his share of handcuffs, but this is the first time he's had to wear them. Anders is a cop. Well, now a former cop, locked up in New Mexico's state penitentiary, housed in maximum security for his own protection.
(On camera): You're in the same area where they keep death row inmates, the most dangerous criminals.
BILLY ANDERS, FORMER OTERO COUNTY SHERIFF SGT.: It happened. I'm dealing with the consequences.
SIMON (voice-over): December 18, 2004. Anders, a sergeant with the Otero County Sheriff's Department, and his partner, Deputy Bob Hedman, respond to a domestic violence call at a cabin in the mountains near Cloudcroft, New Mexico.
ANDERS: The sale of the car raised a red flag. It was about 7:15 at night. It was cold. It was a Saturday night.
SIMON: The dispatcher reported shots fired. And when Anders and his partner arrive at the scene, both have a bad feeling.
ANDERS: He saw blood on the door sill.
SIMON: Still, when the man comes to the door with his girlfriend's 3-year-old daughter, Anders says he wants to avoid conflict. An ex-SWAT commander and a former Air Force pilot, he's trained to deal with any kind of situation.
ANDERS: I said, sir, look, we're not here to give you a hard time. I said, we see blood here, and we've had this call and I said all we need to do is check and make sure that everyone's OK. And I said we're out of here.
SIMON: The next few minutes would change everything.
ANDERS: This cannon, like a Civil War cannon goes off in my face.
SIMON: Anders comes under fire at close range and fires right back, hitting the shooter at least two times. The man, it turns out, is a notorious White Supremacist, named Earl Flippen who had already used this .357 magnum to kill his girlfriend. Deborah Rhoudes had been eight months pregnant. She was later found rolled up in carpet, stuffed in a closet. But at this moment, Anders is thinking about that 3-year-old.
ANDERS: The little girl was inside, and I knew we could not wait for any help.
SIMON: If there was ever a time for a cop to use lethal force, it seemed this was it.
ANDERS: I can't even explain to you the feeling of having a .357 magnum go off in your face.
SIMON (on camera): But Anders' statement about what happened here that night would become contradicted by a powerful eyewitness, a witness with impeccable credibility. It was clear Anders had some explaining to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six, we have a shot fired.
SIMON (voice-over): This is video from Anders' own police truck. The picture is grainy, but the sound of gunfire is unmistakable. Listen as Anders calls out to the little girl, then gets ambushed.
ANDERS: Where's your daddy? Where's your daddy, honey? Oh! (gunfire).
ANDERS: I reacted faster than I could ever have believed I could react.
SIMON: Flippen goes down, but is still alive. Anders slaps on handcuffs.
ANDERS: You lay there, buddy.
SIMON: As Flippen lays there, Anders looks for his partner, who had gone to the back of the house. But he finds Deputy Hedman's body hanging over a railing. He had been shot in the head.
(On camera): Bob wasn't just a sheriff's deputy, he was your best friend.
ANDERS: One of my three best friends, yes. I'm sorry.
SIMON (voice-over): Anders served as a pallbearer at his friend's funeral. But what happens next on that freezing December night is why Anders is now in prison.
Flippen, remember, has been shot and is now in handcuffs. But Anders, who had just found his friend dead, returns, shoos the little girl away...
ANDERS: Back up, honey. Go inside, honey. Go inside.
SIMON: ...and fires a fatal round into Flippen's chest. That, says Otero County District Attorney Scott Key, is a police execution.
SCOTT KEY,, OTERO COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, let's face it, when you have a videotape that shows a deputy executing a handcuffed prisoner, that's not good. It's not good and it has to be dealt with in a court of law.
SIMON: Even though Flippen had just murdered two people and had been a career criminal, a grand jury indicted Anders for voluntary manslaughter. The community was incensed and rallied behind the deputy, raising $50,000 for Anders' legal fees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quite frankly, I feel like he did the world a service.
SIMON: But Anders maintains this was no revenge killing. He says he remembers firing the fatal shot in self-defense and to protect the little girl.
ANDERS: I thought I remembered seeing the guy reaching for a gun when I shot him the last time.
SIMON: The video showed no evidence of that.
ANDERS: Go inside.
SIMON: When pressed on it...
ANDERS: I can't explain it, sir. I don't know. I'm a reasonable, logical person. And, I mean, I'm not going to deny, you know, photographic evidence.
I'm Billy Anders.
SIMON: Anders pleaded guilty. The only question, punishment. The judge, recognizing the unusual circumstances, gave him just one year in the state pen. A distinguished law enforcement career, over.
ANDERS: Go inside, honey. Go inside. SIMON: Anders still thinks about the other survivor that night, that little girl, he just wanted to protect.
ANDERS: I thank God for the fact that she lived that night. And I want her to know, I really want her to know that Bob Hedman lost his life trying to save her.
SIMON: After 31 years in law enforcement, that night was the first time he'd ever fired his weapon on duty. It was also his last.
Dan Simon, CNN, Santa Fe, New Mexico.
COOPER: We'll have more of 360 in a moment. Stay with us.
COOPER: Tomorrow, on "AMERICAN MORNING," a surprise visitor awaits this class of third graders in New York. They become pen pals with an American soldier, serving in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the best part of being a pen pal with somebody like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that you know that you're in contact with him at all times. He's always -- talks if you want. But it will take some time because Iraq is not really close to New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Is it a special relationship, you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, their pen pal is literally at arm's reach. See their introduction tomorrow, at "AMERICAN MORNING," starting at 6:00 a.m., Eastern.
"LARRY KING" is next. His guest, Merv Griffin, reflects on his 20 years as a talk show giant.
I'll be back tomorrow night. See you.
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