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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Big Three Bailout; The Pakistan Link to Attack on India
Aired December 2, 2008 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight breaking election news that could affect nearly every move the next president makes.
Also Detroit carmakers laying out restructuring plans, cutting jobs, dealers, even the brands you grew up with looking for taxpayer dollars facing plunging sales.
And a chilling new terror report.
All of that ahead tonight.
But we begin with the "Breaking News." CNN projecting Georgia Republican Saxby Chambliss has defeated challenger Jim Martin; 59 to 41. They're a senate run-off election over the totals just in Democratic hopes for a 60 seat filibuster proof super majority are over.
CNN's Dana Bash is at Chambliss headquarter and she joins us now with the latest -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, as you just reported that Anderson, it does looks like there is a very, very comfortable win here for the Republican incumbent Senator Saxby Chambliss. In fact, we are waiting for him to come out and speak to his supporters who are gathered here in Atlanta and that should happen any minute from now.
And I just want to put back up on the screen what we are seeing right now in terms of those numbers with 90 percent reporting; 59 percent for Saxby Chambliss and just 41 percent for the Democratic challenger Jim Martin
Now what this means big picture is that the Republicans will not -- will have -- will have what Saxby Chambliss has been calling a firewall in Washington against Barack Obama's agenda because it means that Democrats won't get that 60 vote filibuster proof majority.
And this really has been Anderson, a wrenching, wrenching month for voters here in Georgia because for most of the country they were able to put the very long 2008 campaign behind them, but voters here they have bombarded with TV ads, negative TV ads constantly millions of dollars have poured in here.
You have seen political celebrities from Sarah Palin to Bill Clinton coming down to campaign for candidates on both sides. And it's because of the national implications of this senate race because it very much was to affect the balance of power in Washington and whether or not at least in terms of the hard numbers whether or not Democrats would be able to stop Republicans from putting the breaks on some of the key agenda items that Barack Obama campaign on.
It looks like at least in terms of the numbers, Democrats won't be able to have that luxury right now in Washington -- Anderson.
COOPER: Dana, there is still this one senate race outstanding in Minnesota.
BASH: There is. And it's interesting because this was the last race of this election where voters were going to the polls. It was an official runoff. But what we're seeing in Minnesota is different. It's a recount. Voters are no longer actually going to the polls but there has been a very long hand recount. A hand recount of almost three million ballots there in the state of Minnesota.
And it's not -- it doesn't look like it's going to be over any time soon. The official recount is going to stop on Friday. But then there's a board that is going to possibly review some 5,000 ballots that are going to be challenged, and not even going to be taken up until December 16th.
And then there could be legal battles. So what this means is that that last senate race in Minnesota, we might not know what happens in that for a very long time -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Dana Bash thanks.
We are expecting Saxby Chambliss to make some comments, obviously accepting his victory tonight, celebrating it. We're going to bring you some of those comments when they happen.
Let's take a look at though more on how this changes the senate balance of power across the board and how it affects a president's ability to get things done the way he wants them done.
John King joins us with more on that -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, at best, as Dana noted, the Democrats will have 59 seats in the senate if they win that contested Minnesota race still outstanding. So Democrats will not get by its simple math anyway the 60 vote super majority that would prevent -- would allow them to block any Republican filibusters.
But let's be closer to reality in the sense that if you look at the election -- there's what you have, 58-41. Saxby Chambliss wins tonight; 58-41, the one race outstanding. But in all effects and purposes when in comes to reality, Saxby Chambliss is from a conservative Georgia, a red state that John McCain won.
Had he lost we would have a major national story, you would have the collapse of the Republican Party. What you get now is a reinforcement of the Republicans as a conservative southern party but the moderate Republican Senators Olympia Snowe, Susan Cullen of Maine for example, likely to vote with the Democrats on many if not most issues.
If you're a Republican like George Voinovich from Ohio, Barack Obama just won your state; you are likely to at least try to cooperate with the Democratic President on most -- not all but most issues. If you're John McCain who just lost the election to Barack Obama, you have said you want to work with the Democratic President. So Republicans get a morale boost tonight, Anderson.
Democrats do not get the magic number of 60 but Barack Obama still will come to Washington in a few short weeks with a pretty good margin. A bigger Democratic majority in the House, a bigger Democratic majority in the Senate the question now how do Republicans deal with him when the big issues coming up for key votes?
COOPER: Yes and for Democrats in terms of trying to get things done and make an impact, how important was this filibuster-proof majority? I mean, they can do stuff without it.
KING: It is critical from a symbolic standpoint. But again, many Republicans will vote with the Democrats on some of the big issues. The key question is more and not so much what is the math in the Senate but what is the calculation of Barack Obama, what kind of a health care plan does he put forward?
Will he put forward a plan that allows those moderate Republicans from Maine to vote for it? That allows John McCain to commit on negotiations with the Liberal Ted Kennedy and try to work out a deal.
So the burden is as much on Barack Obama in terms of what type of agenda, what are the specifics of the big ticket items. Will he put something in his tax plan that allowed some Republicans to vote for it? So you can look at it from the perspective of the Senate math Democrats won't get the 60 but 59's still better than they were when they started this election cycle. Or you can look at, and I think the better way to look at it, is how does Barack Obama deal with the math he will have?
Bigger Democratic majorities in both the House and the Senate and most Republicans saying they want to at least at the beginning work with him. Remember, Saxby Chambliss said he wanted to be a firewall. Southern Republicans want a firewall.
Many other Republicans from other parts of the country think the best move for them politically, at least early on, is to try to work with Obama, not reflectively say they will be against him.
COOPER: And we should show you these pictures of Chambliss headquarters that we'll show you in a moment. They are anticipating him coming any moment now to speak. We'll try to bring you those comments for a little bit, at least, as they happen.
John, this race, though, I mean, it drew John McCain, it drew Sarah Palin on the Republican side. Barack Obama, though, did not show up. There were some who wanted him to do more to try to help the Democratic challenger. KING: And without a doubt there is grumbling in the Democratic Party that the only way for Jim Martin to win this race was to have a replay of what happened on November 4th, election night, and even to do better than election night, because of course, Saxby Chambliss remember, got more votes than any one else on election night, he just fell short, just short of 50 percent.
The only way for Jim Martin to win in this very red state -- remember, John McCain carried Georgia on November 4th -- was for Barack Obama to come here and try to get African-American turnout to be even higher than it was on the presidential Election Day.
Now, the Obama campaign will tell you they did a radio ad, they recorded some Robocalls and that his top priority right now is to govern the entire nation. That he has to be putting together his cabinet, that he has to be speaking to those not only who voted for him but who voted against him and he cannot be involved right now in a highly partisan race.
They will also Anderson, tell you privately that they not believe that even if he came here, that the Democrat was likely to win a state that John McCain carried against Barack Obama on election day. So they made the calculation to worry more about January than this one senate runoff in December.
COOPER: And John, it looks like we've just seen Saxby Chambliss on stage. I have a feeling he'll be introduced by a couple of different people before he makes comments.
In terms of Saxby Chambliss, how did he run, John? Did he run as I will be the guy to make a firewall against Obama? I mean, was it -- was it national in that way or was it a local race?
KING: Well, it was both because he did run as saying he would be the firewall. But again remember, he is campaigning in conservative Georgia which has a Republican governor. The man you just saw next to Saxby Chambliss, who he may want -- that man in the red tie is Mike Duncan, and he is the chairman of the Republican National Committee. He just put out a statement and saying, this is proof that Republicans can win when they run on their core conservative values of less spending and a strong national defense.
Saxby Chambliss ran on a message that you can sell in conservative Georgia. That you do not want Barack Obama to have so many Democratic votes that he can raise taxes. You don't want to have Barack Obama to have so many Democratic votes that he could if he proposed, get the votes to cut military spending.
So Saxby Chambliss essentially gave a warning to conservative voters in this state, don't give Barack Obama another vote in the United States Senate. You can sell that in Georgia. Again, it has a Republican governor, it is a conservative state, it has two Republican United States Senators. That message would not have been effective if this were a runoff in the state of Maine, which is a much more progressive or Democratic or liberal state. But it worked here in Georgia. The question is, when Saxby Chambliss goes to Washington and says, I have a mandate to stand up to Barack Obama, what do the other Republicans, the other 40 Republicans in the room say when he says, let's fight? Many of them Anderson early on will say, let's talk first.
COOPER: Dana Bash is also standing by live at Chambliss headquarters. Do we anticipate him speaking any time soon -- Dana? Dana Bash, can you hear me?
BASH: Hi Anderson, I'm sorry about that. It's a little loud here. Yes, we do expect Senator Chambliss to speak very soon.
But it's very noteworthy who is speaking now, and that's the chairman of the Republican Party. Why is that noteworthy?
Because I mean, Anderson I can tell you covering a Republican during the Presidential Election for a long time and talking to Republicans back up on Capitol Hill, they are absolutely, positively demoralized. And this is a very rare moment of glory and victory in a very, very bad year for Republicans.
So the National Party, they're looking at this particular race, this particular victory in this run off here in Georgia and saying, wow, this gives us a little bit of hope.
Now, let's be honest here. This is a southern conservative state that nobody thought was even going to be competitive for Senator Saxby Chambliss except that it was a very tough year and there were other outside factors. But still in terms of the mood, in terms of the mental state inside the Republican Party, this is something that is extremely welcome, Anderson.
COOPER: We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. We'll bring you some of Mr. Chambliss's comments.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: I believe that an intervention will happen either legislatively or from the administration. I think it's pretty clear that bankruptcy is not an option. And let's talk about why. It takes too long. What bankruptcy achieves in a year we can do in a matter of weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi promising quick action on the $25 billion bailout for Detroit.
Two weeks ago she sent carmakers packing back home on their private jets telling them there'll be no federal money until they came up with detailed restructuring plans. Well, today they did and they are drastic including massive layoffs, pay cuts at the top and possibly eliminating entire brands and yes, selling the jets.
Meantime, new figures show sales cratering (ph); about the only bright spot today, the Wall Street gaining back 270 point after yesterday's massive sell off.
We're talking about "Your Money, Your Future." As always let's make sense of it with CNN's chief business correspondent Ali Velshi.
So the big three automakers submitted their plans today Ali, for this bailout. Auto sales numbers were dire today. What reassurances do we actually have that the money for them is going to be well spent?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's the problem Anderson, auto sales for the year are going to come in about 10 million, that's all the autos sold in the United States, all makers. Last year was 16 million and that was the ninth year that we are above 16 million.
So the automakers are saying that this isn't all their fault. Some of it might be their mismanagement but a lot of it is just the environment. People who want to buy cars now can't because they lost their jobs. Others who do have jobs can't get the credit easily.
Let me show you a little bit about how this all breaks down. The three automakers, starting with Ford, Ford is saying that they're going to make more small and medium-sized cars. They're going to try in sort of de-emphasize some of the large truck business. Remember, Ford makes the F-series, that's the best selling vehicle in America for more than three decades.
They're also going to get into some less complex car parts business, trying to make them work in more vehicles. They're asking for $9 billion out of the bailout package, but Ford did say that they probably don't need the $9 billion unless things get worse than they have forecast.
GM is the biggest company so we knew they would be asking for the most money. They are thinking about getting rid of their Pontiac and Saturn brand, maybe even selling off Saab, they're been selling off other brands that they own like Volvo -- and they're thinking about selling off Volvo. They've sold Jaguar and Land Rover.
They said that they might have to cut between 20,000 and 31,500 jobs to make it work for them. And they're asking for $18 billion, about $12 billion plus an extra facility of $6 billion.
And Chrysler is talking about alliances with other companies, some way of trying to cut their costs and manage it. They're asking for $7 billion. That's a little tricky because that's a private company.
Now, if you've been following along with me at home, watching your news with a calculator I like I often, you may find the math doesn't add up Anderson. You tossed it to me talking about a $25 billion bailout. Well, 9, plus 18, plus 7 actually comes out to $34 billion, Anderson. COOPER: Yes. I'm not sure the numbers really add up to that $25 at all. The big three CEOs though, seemed to have learned at least from the private jet PR fiasco the last time around.
VELSHI: Yes, there's no private jets that went from Detroit to Washington. They're going to be testifying on Thursday. All three are driving. We knew that Ford CEO have left this morning, General Motors CEO had left, both of them are driving in hybrid vehicles. Chrysler's Bob Nardelli until last night had not apparently made a decision as to how he's going to get there. We thought he might fly commercial but it was announced today that he's driving. In exchange for, you know, getting there and trying to get some money, they're not going to go through that PR fiasco that they did last time.
They're also, by the way, General Motors CEO and Chrysler CEO had agreed last time around to take $1 salary, Ford CEO has agreed to the same thing. They're also going to be eliminating a lot of bonuses. So they're trying to at least not have the discussion distracted by their own behavior, Anderson.
COOPER: What's so alarming is there's this report out today from the GAO on the bailout basically that saying that Americans can't be sure where the tax dollars are going. How much oversight is there going to be on these car makers?
VELSHI: Well, that's interesting the car bail out is $25 or $34 billion. Depending on how you want to do the math. The Government Accounting Office, they sort of keep track of what the government spends and they came out and said, look, the bailout, the $700 billion bailout, there was supposed to be an agency of appointed to oversee them, that didn't happen until mid-November.
That some of the companies that are entrusted to do the work of the bailout might actually have conflicts of interest. And that the Treasury has got to do a better job of keeping track of this money.
But if you recall Anderson, none of the recipients of that money had to go to Congress and come up with a plan so already Congress is putting on tougher standards on the automakers. If they agree to give them the money, you'll know at least there was a little more specific -- more specific strings attached to it then with the other bailout.
COOPER: All right, Ali, stick around. David Gergen and Candy Crowley are going to join us next to talk about Detroit and political situation, Saxby Chambliss, the balance of power, and more after the break.
Saxby Chambliss has begun to speaking that's a live shot of the victory celebration. We're going to take a short break.
Right now he's basically just thanking people. It's not terribly interesting. We're going to bring you some of his comments once he gets into the heart of his talk.
And new developments tonight, charges in the tragedy that took the lives of Jennifer Hudson's mother, brother, and nephew. Details ahead on "360."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, (R) GEORGIA: Our family and the whole campaign staff as well as our folks who have gotten involved from a national perspective. Because this race has been nationalized, people all around the world have truly had their eyes on Georgia. And you have delivered tonight a strong message to the world that conservative Georgia values matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: OK, that's Senator Saxby Chambliss who has won re- election tonight in the state of Georgia.
More on the financial meltdown now; President-elect Obama in Philadelphia today, meeting with nation's governors. They are in dire straits, unable to borrow, social spending on the rise, due to the recession, tax revenue cratering, programs and jobs being cut left and right.
Their crisis may be the Obama administration's first big test to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.
The big bucks and "Raw Politics" now from Candy Crowley.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Forty-one governors project red ink in their state budgets this year or next so they were happy to hear this --
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This administration does not intend to delay in getting you the help that we need.
CROWLEY: The President-elect is talking about the stimulus package his economic team is putting together to shock the economy back to life. Sources say the price tag could go as high as $700 billion and governors want a piece of the action. Though that's not how they put it.
GOV. ED RENDELL, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: We are not here asking for money for governors. If we're asking for any money at all, it's for the citizens of our state. Not for us. Not for our budgets, but the citizens of our state.
CROWLEY: What governors want most is money to build or repair roads, bridges, mass transit, schools. Knee deep in debt in California, Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger figures it's a combo treat for strapped states. Better roads built by workers who pay taxes to the state.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, (R) CALIFORNIA: I think that there's $136 billion of infrastructure projects ready to go all over the United States, including in California. We have $28 billion alone of projects that are ready to go, literally putting shovels into the dirt within a few months after the administration starts.
CROWLEY: Barack Obama's trip to Philadelphia offered another chance to promise cooperation and solutions that transcend parties. There are 22 Republican governors.
OBAMA: I offer you the same hand of friendship, the same commitment to partnership as I do my Democratic colleagues. There is a time for campaigning and there is a time for governor.
CROWLEY: And even some bipartisan humor from Vice President- elect Joe Biden, who's been a bit of a background player of late.
SEN. JOE BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And Governor Palin, I want to thank you, particularly. I might point out, as I told you we walked in since the race is over, no one pays attention to me at all. So maybe you'll walk outside with me or something later and say hello to me.
CROWLEY: Fresh off the Georgia campaign trail, the Governor of Alaska who once accused candidate Obama of palling around with terrorists was enthused about palling around with President-elect Obama.
GOV. SARAH PALIN, (R) ALASKA: The campaign is over and I so appreciated this meeting that we had and I'm quite optimistic about moving forward in a bipartisan manner.
CROWLEY: Even Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, the toughest of Democrats, caught the spirit. Apparently unaware of an open mike, he mused with fellow governors about what Palin might say at a post- meeting press conference and he praised her in a Rendell kind of way.
RENDELL: I think she has great instincts. She's not a genius, but she has very good political instincts.
CROWLEY: Like the stimulus package, the practice of bipartisanship is a work in progress.
COOPER: A work in progress indeed. Candy joins us now from Chicago, along with CNN's senior political analyst and former presidential adviser, David Gergen, who's in Boston and with me again, here in New York is Ali Velshi.
So David, let's talk first about Saxby Chambliss, how big a win was this not only for obviously for Chambliss but also for Republicans tonight?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It was a major shot in the arm for the Republican Party, Dana Bash has reported. This has been a demoralized party. But I think as important as anything, Anderson, these last couple of days have been a real dose of harsh reality for the Obama team.
You know, after they had that -- they announced their economic heavy weights coming in, the market rallied for three days in a row there, and this week, the markets have been down, the economic news is pretty dire. And now they've had this defeat in Georgia. And it seems to be a fairly decisive defeat.
And I think it's really reminded the Obama team of, you know, as much hope as they have and they've started in the country, there are some harsh limits they're by bouncing up against. This is going to be tough to govern, Obama had a good meeting with the governors today but he's got a tough, tough road ahead.
COOPER: Candy, the Obama folks, I mean, they don't have any illusions about how tough this is going to be?
CROWLEY: They don't because it's not just that there will be enough Republicans to block a bill if they want to do it. There are also Republicans, particularly in the south -- I'm sorry, Democrats particularly in the south who would be willing to join Republicans on some bills.
So you know, they totally understand. I mean, there's a reason that Rahm Emanuel, a former Congressman from Illinois is now Chief of Staff in the White House. There's a reason that a number of these people brought into the White House and some of those that are being nominated to cabinet positions have Congressional ties, because they understand that there are three branches of government, and one of them isn't always going to agree with Barack Obama.
COOPER: Ali, it's interesting watching this governors, I mean, essentially with their hands out for their states some of them -- particularly in California are in big trouble.
COOPER: What are the options for them?
VELSHI: Well, governments -- state governments if they run out of money in some cases could stop operating they'll have to business will come to a halt. We've seen this on a federal level. That's what California is saying. I don't know that in every state we're in that dire of circumstances.
Those states have run deficits in the past. That's not the end of it. But at this point, you need to be in the discussion. But if you think you're going to get any money, now this is the time to be in the discussion. And I think that was the sense of bipartisanship, the sense of cooperation that was going on.
But the reality is, while they may be getting a honeymoon, David referred to the fact that markets were rallying with the economic announcements last week. Well, Barack Obama can't continue to announce new people to his economic team.
Now we're waiting for the plan. Everybody has said they would like a piece of this plan. We need to see this plan. It could be $700 billion as Candy was reporting.
COOPER: David, it's interesting to see Sarah Palin out there not only on the campaign trail for Saxby Chambliss yesterday but then today at this governor's meeting. She seems to be everywhere but in her state doing governance there. I mean, really the race it seems like for the Republican Party for 2012 has already begun.
You have governors Rick Perry, Mark Sanford in "The Wall Street Journal" today warning about a bailout mentality. Everyone already seems to be jockeying for position. You have Mitt Romney, you know, wrote this essay saying, let Detroit go bankrupt.
GERGEN: Yes, Mitt Romney and Giuliani were both as well as Mike Huckabee, they were all in Georgia. But I have to say, this has been a big victory for Sarah Palin. She had four big rallies yesterday in Georgia. Saxby Chambliss really wanted her in there. And I think she's got a big win under her belt. Now, this is going to make her a hot property in the 2010 --
COOPER: She can claim credit for the Chambliss win?
GERGEN: I don't think she can claim credit but she shares in the spot -- basks in the spotlight with him because she had this very high-profile visit. But I want to -- to go back just a moment to the importance of the Chambliss win.
I think this actually puts a lot more pressure on Barack Obama to govern much more from the center and not from the left. He is going to need Republicans now. He's going to need a bipartisan approach on his economic stimulus package and on other things, even though as all this claims has lined up to get money. He's going to need some Republican votes.
Schwarzenegger, by the way, could help in California, because he needs that money.
COOPER: Candy, what's the evidence that he is ready to govern from the center?
CROWLEY: Well, he certainly has a lot of centrists, that he -- both economically and as regards to national security, that he has put in the cabinet. There's some suggestion, of course, that particularly when it comes to National Security, but even as well when it comes to economics, that if he puts these centrists in place, he has some cover to sort of rule left of center, to be president left of center.
So we're, honestly, he remains a virtual unknown in politics. We are not really sure where he's going to govern from. He has always said he is sort of free of the sorts of definitions that we do, left of center, center, right of center, and so we'll see.
But the fact of the matter is he is still pretty much an unknown when it comes to how he will guide this country.
COOPER: Ali, we keep hearing dollar figures being thrown around, $25 billion for the auto industry, or as you just saw earlier, maybe more than that. Is there any evidence that this has been working thus far?
VELSHI: There is. The credit freeze that we talked about all through September and October, that the international credit freeze has loosened up substantially. What isn't working, it hasn't trickled down to the ability of American companies to raise money and the ability of you and I to get mortgages and loans.
So there is a stoppage at this level. But this is a problem that money can solve if it's allocated the right way.
COOPER: But we just heard this oversight report saying essentially there's not enough control --
COOPER: Over where all this money is going out. It's just being doled out left and right.
VELSHI: That's right and to some degree they tried something that didn't work. And history may judge them more kindly for having tried to buy up troubled assets and then decide that the money needs to go to the banks.
Fundamentally it's the GAO report didn't say the bailout is a failure, what it said is that there just have to be more oversight, there needs to be more attentions paid to conflict and in a rush to do things we can't dodge that.
If this $500 billion or $700 billion bailout program that the new administration is interested in putting through goes through, we're going to be a lot more conscious of where that $500 billion or $700 billion is. There may be a lot of bipartisan, there may be support from the center but fundamentally we're going to look carefully where that's going and how it's going to help the economy.
COOPER: Let's hope so. Ali, David, Candy, thank you.
Still ahead, was Pakistan behind the slaughter in Mumbai? Today for the first time, a high ranking U.S. official suggests that it may have been. As tensions rise between India and Pakistan and as secretary of state Condoleezza Rice heads to New Delhi. We'll have the latest on the investigation and some new dramatic video; the aftermath of the attack.
And new developments in the tragic triple murder in Jennifer Hudson's family. An estranged family member has now been charged with the slayings.
That and more ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Pakistan, you called on India to produce evidence of the complicity of any Pakistani group in the attacks. If it's produced, what would you do?
ASIF AL ZARDARI, PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN: I would put -- my government would take action, our government would take action. The Democratic government would take action against all the actors and anybody who's involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Pakistan's president Asif Al Zardari insisting he is committed to fighting terror. But just hours ago, the chief U.S. intelligence officer tied the attacks to Pakistan. National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell said U.S. intelligence believes the same terrorist group also attacked Mumbai trains in 2006 and the Indian parliament five years before. Indian officials say that was the Pakistani group Lashkar-E-Taiba.
Today more dramatic video of the attack surfaced as the investigation uncover new details. Nic Robertson has a "360 Dispatch"
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With each day of the investigation, more dramatic video. Here two of the gunmen begin their ruthless killing spree. Their large backpacks and military stride hint at the deadly capability.
HASAN GAFOOR, MUMBAI POLICE COMMISSIONER: They were trained by some ex-army officers and their training lasted, for some people for a year, for some for more than a year.
ROBERTSON: In his first news conference since the attack, Mumbai's police chief said the gunmen had come to, quote, "create a sensation and kill as many people as possible." There were ten of them, he said, on a suicide mission; directed over the phone by a controller inside Pakistan.
GAFOOR: It appears that it was a suicide attack and I do not think that they had any plans or any route for escaping.
ROBERTSON: More dramatic video taken from a surveillance camera at the train station. One of the first places to be attacked has also been released. Cops can be seen cowering behind pillars. Local news stations say it's because they lack weapons to defend themselves.
There's a rising tide of anger here that the police were not better prepared. They had been warned, according to U.S. officials, of a sea borne attack. Gafoor denied he had actionable intelligence capable of heading off the attack. The intercept, he said, was too vague.
GAFOOR: Saying Taj Mahal hotel and other places can also be exposed to such danger.
ROBERTSON: Five taxis were used by the gunman according to Gafoor. They spread their terror and confusion by planting bombs in at least two of them. He also denied reports of an earlier mission by a team to plan the attack.
GAFOOR: They were shown and were given maps and they were shown how they could go there. And in any case they've gone in the taxis.
ROBERTSON: When asked about the captured can gunmen Gafoor said he was cooperating well, confirming that he's a Pakistani. On several occasions during the press conference, the police commissioner denied the attackers had had any local supported, saying the police had discovered none so far. But surprising revelation for India's terrorism experts who believe the gunmen must have had some Indian help.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Mumbai, India.
COOPER: U.S. intelligence had tied it to a group inside Pakistan; the level of -- the knowledge of Pakistan government is still something under investigation.
A chilling new report about the threat of terrorism here at home; we'll talk to CNN national security analyst, Peter Bergen.
But first Erica Hill joins us with the "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Jennifer Hudson's brother-in- law is now facing three counts of first-degree murder. William Balfour charged today in the fatal shootings of the Oscar winner's mother, brother, and 7-year-old nephew in Chicago. Balfour is the estranged husband of Hudson's sister.
Two Wal-Mart customers are now suing the retailer for $2 million, claiming they were injured in that Black Friday stampede that killed a Wal-Mart employee on Long Island. Nassau County, New York, Police Department is also named. The men claim the officers on duty that morning were negligent. The police department has said it does not comment on open litigation.
And another hit for New York Giants football star, Plaxico Burress, the Giants suspending the wide receiver for the year today, after he accidentally shot himself in the leg at a Manhattan nightclub over the weekend. Burress didn't have a permit for that gun, and he is charged with illegal weapons possession, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Erica.
Up next, a chilling new report that says terrorists are likely to use a weapon of mass destruction in the next five years. Our own Peter Bergen was interviewed for the report. He'll join us to talk about it.
Also ahead, an American cruise ship attacked by pirates. Shots were fired. We'll tell you what happened, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: You're looking at new video that has surfaced, showing the actual capture and beating of the sole surviving attacker in Mumbai.
Last week's attacks killed at least 179 people including at least six Americans. And as bad as the Mumbai carnage was, there's a new report warning of the growing danger of a much deadlier attack. The report, commissioned by Congress, warns terrorists are likely to strike with a nuclear or biological weapon of mass destruction some time in the next five years.
Let's dig deeper with CNN national security analyst, Peter Bergen.
Peter, first, let's talk about what happened in Pakistan. This group that is now suspected of being involved in the attacks, do we know to what degree the Pakistan government is aware of this group, you know, and involved in this group?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they're certainly aware of this group, because they banned it in 2002. But this group is a very large group, Anderson.
Like Hezbollah, it has a sort of political wing and a social welfare wing. It has an annual meeting where hundreds of thousands of people show up. It used to have offices around the country. This is a major, major organization. It's not a small terrorist group. This is a very large organization.
The Pakistani government have cracked down on it, but it's re- emerged with a different name and, obviously, continues to be very violent and quite effective, unfortunately.
COOPER: You're one of hundreds of people interviewed for this congressional report. And the report concluded, and I quote, "America's margin of safety is shrinking, not growing" and predicts that under these conditions there's going to be a WMD attack somewhere in the world in the next five years.
Why have things gotten worse and not better since the anthrax attacks, say, back in 2001?
BERGEN: Well, I think part of this is when we talk about WMD, it's not a very useful phrase; a weapon of mass destruction. There's only one weapon of mass destruction. That's a nuclear weapon. Everything else -- chemical weapons, biological weapons -- do not create mass casualties.
And when -- when terrorists have used chemical weapons or biological weapons, they've killed very few people. The anthrax attacks that you mentioned killed five people. Those -- the anthrax attacks were prepared by one of the United States' leading scientists, according to the U.S. government. So if he can't weaponize anthrax into something that kills a lot of people, how can terrorists do it?
I mean, terrorists, I think, they're going to continue doing the things we see in Bombay, killing people with AK-47s, blowing up car bombs, blowing up truck bombs, because these are relatively easy to do. To weaponize a chemical weapon, biological weapon is pretty difficult. And for a terrorist group to acquire nuclear weapons, in my view, is almost impossible.
You know, look at Iran. Iran has had a nuclear program now for almost 20 years. It has spent a huge amount of money on it. It still doesn't have nuclear weapons.
So buying, acquiring, stealing or developing your own nuclear weapons is something that states find very hard. For a terrorist group I think it's almost impossible.
So I take, Anderson, a much more skeptical view. I think it's great that this group is sounding the alarm. We don't want to be in a position, as we were with 9/11, where something catastrophic happens and we realize we could have done things.
However, I think it's important for the audience to understand that, you know, we can't just sort of be fearful of things that have a very low probability.
COOPER: It's interesting, because the report says Pakistan could become an unwitting source of a terror attack in the U.S. Pakistan always says that they're doing all they can. Are they really? I mean, does the Pakistan government know everything that their own intelligence service is up to?
BERGEN: Well, you know, I spent a fair amount of time in Pakistan. And it's a country which is quite difficult to operate as a reporter. The more you know about it, the less you know about it, on some levels.
The Pakistani government sometimes says it's going to do things -- I mean, just take one example of this Bombay case. They said at one point that they were going to send the head of the military intelligence agency -- the civilian leadership said they would send the head of the military intelligence agency to India to help out with the investigation.
And then that was countermanded by the military intelligence agency. So who's really in charge?
The problem is you've really got two governments. And the civilian side may say one thing, and the Pakistani military intelligence side may say something else. So that's -- that's a problem right there.
Plus there's a question of weakness of the military to go after the militants. Is it -- is it a lack of capability? Is it a lack of, you know, intention? It's not clear.
COOPER: Frustrating. Peter, appreciate it. Peter Bergen, terrorism analyst.
Just ahead on "360" gifted college athlete and scholar and the extraordinary decision he faced. Would he head to the NFL to make millions or would he put that dream on hold for another. Myron Rolle's remarkable story up close, when "360" continues.
COOPER: Most 22-year-olds feel like they have their lives ahead of them. So does Myron Rolle. His options though are unlike any other 22-year-olds.
If you haven't heard of him Rolle's a powerhouse on the football field and in the classroom. A young man so talented and driven, he recently had to make a choice most people could only dream about.
Would he head to the NFL and make millions or would he take a time-out for the Super Bowl of scholarships? It was Rolle's ticket to ride.
CNN's Don Lemon takes us up close.
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The question many have been asking about Myron Rolle began with call home to his mom.
MYRON ROLLE FSU FOOTBALL PLAYER: I say, "Mommy, hey did you find anything? I won. Mommy, relax, relax, I've got to tell you more.
BEVERLY ROLLE, MYRON ROLLE'S MOTHER: Oh, my God.
LEMON: That's how it started. That's when Myron Rolle learned he had a choice to make.
ROLLE: I like to set my goals for the stars and I reach as high as I can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Number 3, Myron Rolle.
LEMON: Rolle is a scholar athlete who in just two and a half years raced through Florida State to graduate near the top of his class, pre-med. But what inspires so many and what made them cheer for Myron Rolle is his single-minded belief that anything, anything really is possible.
ROLLE: Barack Obama has done it. Oprah Winfrey has done it. People who have succeeded with their academics, with their brain, with their mind, with their intellect, and with their power of speech and their influence --
LEMON: Which is why it now seems all but certain his future would be decided on a big game day.
It was Florida State at the University of Maryland, NFL scouts watching. The only question, which team would draft him and pay him millions? But Rolle was 800 miles away. Instead of suiting for the game, a private jet flew Rolle to Alabama. He was up for the prestigious Rhodes scholarship at Oxford University. His final interview was that morning.
On the frigid field in Maryland, fans watched, fingers crossed he could get back in time. A police escort rushed him to the stadium in time to play the second half and a huge victory. But by then, he'd already called home. The Rhodes committee had selected him.
Why were you so excited, mom?
B. ROLLE: Because my baby just won something that he dreamt about for, you know, many years and he accomplished it. So, you know, I'm like --
LEMON: Myron's brother, Marvis.
MARVIS ROLLE, MYRON'S BROTHER: I almost lost my mind. I let go of the wheel and started screaming. Yeah.
LEMON: Oxford, England or the NFL? The 22-year-old had already founded health classes for needy kids in Florida and had plans to eventually start a clinic in the Bahamas dedicated to his family.
So what would Myron Rolle decide?
You are going to go to Oxford, right?
MYRON ROLLE: Correct.
LEMON: You're going to do that?
MYRON ROLLE: Yes, sir. I'm going to go to oxford. That's something that I've wanted to do and that's why I chose the Rhodes scholarship to pursue because Oxford's a great university.
LEMON: And after that, the NFL and then med school.
MYRON ROLLE: I want to be a doctor. I want to be great. I want to do some great things.
LEMON: It's why so many are cheering for Myron Rolle.
Don Lemon, CNN, Tallahassee, Florida.
COOPER: And we are cheering, as well. What an amazing, amazing young man.
Coming up, pirates, terrorizing the high seas and raking in millions of dollars. In one of the latest attacks, a U.S. cruise ship was the target. We'll tell you what happened, ahead.
COOPER: There are new details tonight about a brazen attack on a luxury cruise liner. The ship was sailing between Rome and Singapore with nearly 700 passengers on board, including many Americans. It was attacked by a band of Somali pirates. There were gunshots. The cruise ship got away but the dramatic incident is part of an escalating problem in the region.
Erica Hill takes us up close.
HILL: Most of these pirates have always made their living on the sea, but before they were fisherman, not hijackers and thieves. In a country with no real government and intense poverty, it isn't hard to see how they're adding to the ranks.
"BOYAH", SOMALI PIRATE (through translator): We work together and our ranks grow because there is more hunger and more skills. That is what causes more people to join piracy. Piracy is growing faster. But it is not something that is lessening. The world cannot do anything about it.
HILL: In the past year the pirates have collected an estimated $150 million in ransoms. And while there are international war ships patrolling the area, all the technology in the world can't monitor every inch of these waters. And the pirates know it.
ADMIRAL MIKE MULLEN, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Tactically, they're very good, so when they get to a point where they can board, it becomes very difficult to get them off, because now they hold hostages.
HILL: Coalition forces won't board a hijacked ship for fear of harming the hostages.
This map, maintained by the International Maritime Bureau, shows every pirate attack, and there have been more than 90 this year, more than 35 of them successful hijackings. And in just the past week at least five incidents in the Gulf of Aden with 28 people taken hostage.
So how do the pirates, often traveling in scrappy-looking boats, no bigger than a car, manage to overpower some of the biggest ships at sea? Weapons, including RPGs which could blow up a tanker.
And even if ships have security guards, they're often unarmed. The International Maritime Organization strongly discourages weapons on board merchant ships.
Security expert Will Geddes says these pirates are also masters of disguise.
WILL GEDDES, CEO, INTERNATIONAL CORPORATE PROTECTION: They can either pretend to be officials that are seeking to board the actual ship for inspections. They can masquerade as Coast Guard.
HILL: The other sobering and powerful point in their favor: the pirates know that right now, they have the upper hand.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: It's amazing that, you know, a couple guys in a boat can take over a huge ship like this. A lot of these ships are unarmed. What can be done to stop this?
HILL: Well, actually, it's such -- it's such a matter of concern for the U.N., for all these countries, that NATO, the NATO ministers are meeting in Brussels, actually, starting today. And this was top of their agenda, because there have been so many demands for NATO to act, to do something a little bit more active here, that this is what they're talking about right now.
So hopefully, we'll get some information over the next few days as to what they'll be doing to step up efforts.
COOPER: All right. Erica Hill, thanks.
Up next on 360, a debate that takes "Raw Politics" to a whole new level. Have you seen this? It's our "Shot of the Day." It gets heated and a little water thrown. Boom.
COOPER: All right, time for "The Shot."
We're no strangers to heated political debates, Erica and I. But you don't often see something like we caught today on Romanian TV. A discussion, she drops the water, and then boom. Yes.
HILL: Here's the water back. I love that look.
COOPER: And then she's just like, "Really? Do you go there?"
That guy is a former body builder turned senator and his opponent...
HILL: That's why she's not getting up from her chair.
COOPER: Exactly. And I guess that -- maybe he's still on the 'roids and maybe that's why he...
HILL: Roid rage, never -- it's never pretty.
COOPER: See it again? And boom, yes. Bizarre.
We don't see that in America too often, do we?
HILL: No. Not nearly enough.
COOPER: Yes, all right. And roll it once more?
HILL: There you go.
COOPER: All right.
You can see all the most recent "Shots" on our Web site, AC360.com. And one more time. What was that, five times we've shown it now?
HILL: Never enough, never enough.
That does it for this edition of "360." Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING" starts now.
See you tomorrow night.