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Dudley to Replace Hayward as BP CEO; Interview With Desmond Tutu

Aired July 27, 2010 - 16:00:00   ET



ROBERT DUDLEY, BP: -- the past three months, every day on the Gulf Coast. And I'm going to focus for the next month-and-a-half on what we're doing in the Gulf Coast, our relationship to the Gulf Coast and Washington.


BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Bob Dudley is set to replace Tony Hayward as BP's chief executive. That on a day the company reports a $17 billion loss. But in Europe, scientists say the whole saga could have been avoided with their quick fix solution to oil spills.

So have jobs and livelihoods been lost for nothing?

Tonight, we test the theory that science can make global deep sea drilling safe.

On CNN, this is the hour we connect the world.

Well, we all know BP's oil spill could have been avoided, don't we?

But a number of scientists now say that even after the oil spilled, there were ways to clean it up.

I'm Becky Anderson in London, exploring claims that could potential save a lot of time and money around the world if there is a next time.

Also tonight, a CNN exclusive interview for you with a legend from South Africa.


ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU, 1984 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER: I will try to be as modest here as I can. We really are a fantastic people. And we live in one of the best countries in the world.


ANDERSON: Nobel Peace Prize winner, Desmond Tutu, answers your questions tonight in his first interview since announcing his retirement.

And keeping the Internet secure...


PAUL KANE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, COMMUNITY DNS, CYBER SECURITY KEYHOLDER: You bring five of the keys together. You have to know where the secure location is. You have to have access to the hardware.


ANDERSON: One of the seven men from around the world who gets the key to reboot the Internet in the event of doomsday. You don't want to miss that interview one of those men, as he explains how to keep the World Wide Web safe.

And while we're at it, do Tweet me about what you want see on the show. My personal address is atbeckycnn.

Let's kick off CONNECT THE WORLD for you this evening, then. The man at the top is out, but he's not leaving quietly. BP announced that CEO, Tony Hayward, will be replaced effective October the 1st. Well, after the announcement, Hayward offered pointed words and warnings to the oil industry.

Allan Chernoff joins me from New York with more -- Allan, what was he saying?

What did he say?

What -- what does he want at this point?

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Becky, he's saying that this was not entirely BP's problem. He's saying that this really was an industry problem. Tony Hayward was absolutely defiant in a conference call with Wall Street analysts this morning. He said that this Macondo accident -- remember, the name of that oil well was Macondo. He said that: "Macondo was an accident for the deepwater drilling industry, not BP." That is a quote from Mr. Hayward.

Obviously, he was speaking to a friendly audience here, not the Americans living on the Gulf who have been absolutely furious with Mr. Hayward. He also did say that the industry needs to reevaluate safety. And he also defended his own record in terms of safety. He said that BP's safety record had improved during this three years at the helm of the company.

Remember, the company had had some awful accidents prior to him taking over, particularly 2005, the refinery fire in Texas City, where 15 people were killed.

But Becky, very defiant comments from Mr. Hayward.

ANDERSON: Any surprise that, effectively, he is now on this way out?

And what -- what was the effect on the share prices, if anything at all?

CHERNOFF: Well, you know, Wall Street is always looking forward. And yesterday, on word that he would be leaving, the stock soared.

So what do you do?

Hear the news, sell. So we did get a little bit of a decline, about a 2.5 percent decline in London, 1.5 percent here in New York for the ADRs of BP's stock.

So, not a dramatic move, but let's also consider that the stock itself has been on a tear. Value investors have been snapping up BP's shares. So they -- they've really been climbing rapidly over the past month.

ANDERSON: All right, so he's going or he's not going particularly quietly.

Allan Chernoff there from New York for you.

If there is one thing that we've learned then, from this oil spill around the Deepwater Horizon rig, it's that the industry needs new and reliable ways to clean up leaks that they -- as they are happening.

That is where Dr. Fivos Andritsos and his team, from the Joint Research Center, in Ispra, in Italy, come in.

Have a listen to this.


FIVOS ANDRITSOS, JOINT RESEARCH CENTER: It's so simple that we were surprised when we did our autumn search that nobody had thought of that before. You anchor around the deck a dome, which is like a fannon (ph). So whatever leaks you have on the rigs, they flow upwards by gravity.


ANDERSON: Well, it's so easy anyone can understand it, apparently. Oil traveling up a riser tube until it reaches a reservoir where it is stored until a tanker can arrive to offload it.

Now, another advantage of this method is because the so-called batha bell (ph) lies underneath the surface of the sea. It's not affected by stormy weather conditions. Listen, I'm no engineer, but there are lots of them out.

But it's been more than 100 days, hasn't it?

And so let me join the dots on this story.

This isn't the only alternative solution to cleaning up oil spills.

My next guest is an expert engineer who knows a thing or two about deep sea mechanics.

Satish Nagarajaiah is a professor of civil environmental engineering at Rice University in Houston, Texas.

Satish, we just looked at the riser tube method.

Is it really as easy and as powerful as its investors say it is?

SATISH NAGARAJAIAH, RICE UNIVERSITY: It's quite an elegant solution, actually. But this solution is really for ships which are, you know, sunken ships. It can also be used in oil wells. It is somewhat similar to the containment hat that was used by BP in it -- in the initial stages. I don't know whether, if you recall, there was a 100 foot, you know, of 50 ton box which was lowered onto the leak and it did not work because of hydrates.

So that will be a problem that they will also have in this invention that they have come up with. It's an elegant solution, but the hydrates will be another, you know, thing that they have to contend with even in that case.

ANDERSON: Satish, I want to throw something else at you.


ANDERSON: Our viewers might remember last month...

NAGARAJAIAH: You know, we've...

ANDERSON: -- we featured an idea from the actor and environmentalist, in fact, Kevin Costner, with his company, Ocean Therapy Solutions. He's investing millions of dollars in a -- what's called a centrifuge device that uses spinning forces to separate oil from seawater. He says his idea was ignored by those in industry. We're showing the pictures of that for our viewers.

Were you surprised that his idea was ignored?

And again, what did you think of it?

NAGARAJAIAH: I think it's, you know, it's a good solution for a small scale problem. This is a huge problem. It's a disaster, actually. And you need something like a, you know, a permanent solution that BP is trying -- has tried now. They've capped the well right now using the containment new connection on the LMRP cap. And then they're going to do the static kill and the relief well and the -- you know, that kind of a solution is what was needed. All the other solutions, skimming and all these new methods of, you know, separating oil, they're useful, but for smaller scale. But not for this large a disaster.

ANDERSON: Yes, and also, of course, useful in cleanups.

Satish, BP, we know, has just signed a deal to drill in Libya. This is deepwater drilling taking place, of course, all over the world.

Given the spills that we've seen, if -- we -- we can't be told it's safe. I mean, I've been -- I've been told time and time and time again by experts in the field that this is just unique, that, actually, most times, these things are safe.

But we don't buy it at this point.

Will deep sea drilling ever be safe?

And if so, who's got it right?

NAGARAJAIAH: I think, you know, this is an industry which has learned a lot in this incident. Unfortunate as it is, the silver lining is that the drilling will be much safer in the future.

We have technologies which are safe enough to drill in 10,000 feet. There are wells which are in 10,000 feet. Perdido, for example, it's a Shell platform, is in 8,000 feet and it actually pumps from a 10,000 feet well. So we have wells which, you know, which have been drilled at deeper depths in very safe conditions.

So we have technologies. It's just that proceeds, practices have to be streamlined in a way that they're done safely. And if there is an event like this, there are new techniques now, because of this three month experiment, if you will. We have learned a lot. And so we will be able to contain it in the future. But, you know, we still have this relief well that needs to be finished and once this is over, then we can look back and learn all the lessons that we have learned.

ANDERSON: And it's the world that's watching, not just the region, of course.

Satish, thank you for joining us tonight from the Baker Institute.

Your expert on the story tonight.

There's just been another oil spill, actually, in the U.S., I need to tell you about. But this one is far inland. A spokesman for a pipeline company says 840,000 gallons of crude oil leaked into a river in the state of Michigan. There's no word yet on what caused the spill or how far down river the oil has spread.

We've been talking about the departure of Tony Hayward tonight, and the man who was going to take over. And exactly what do you do with deep sea drilling going forward?

What do you think of this story?

Do you think deep sea drilling is safe?

We're at more than 100 days in. We've been asking this question for a long period of time now. Find out how you can get in touch with us at And you can also use my Twitter address, atbeckycnn. Anything you want to tell us, let us know.

Well, just in the last week, you've put tough questions to the likes of Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Richard Holbrooke and Dieter Von Thies (ph). And they have answered them all for you.

Next up, a man who's about to exit public life and what a life that has been. A CNN exclusive. In his first television interview in nearly a year, the retiring anti-apartheid legend, Desmond Tutu, is up next. And he's your Connector of the Day. And you will not want to miss it.



ANDERSON (voice-over): He's a symbol of reconciliation and of unity and has dedicated his life to making the world a more accepting place. But now, at the age of 79, Archbishop Desmond Tutu has decided it's time to slow down. The anti-apartheid leader has announced that he will withdraw from public life beginning this October.

Tutu first came to international prominence as a powerful voice on South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, where he helped guide the country toward a new democratic era. Since then, Tutu has thrown himself into many active causes and has become a trailblazer in fighting for democracy and fairness worldwide.

This month, he is releasing his latest project, a bible for children. Whether in or out of the public eye, he is forever embedded in the world's conscience.

Desmond Tutu is your Connector of the Day.


ANDERSON: Well, he was one of the most forthright spokesmen for the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, wasn't he?

And his work won him a -- a Nobel Peace Prize in 1984. Now he says it's time to call it a day. But not before he releases a work close to his heart -- a children's bible.

Always a pleasure, I caught up with Desmond Tutu earlier today.

And I began by asking him why he's publishing that now and what it's designed to achieve.

And have a listen to what he said.


TUTU: Well, it's as good a time as any, where you are trying to get them to realize, I mean, that you have a goal who is firm, you know. Because far too frequently, God can be made to be a bogeyman or a bad bogeywoman. And some of the ways in which we are told the story is make -- make children realize, I mean that God is approachable, God is our father, our mother.

ANDERSON: Desmond, Kweku asks: "What would you say about God to the world, if everybody were listening?"

TUTU: God loves you. God loves you with a love that does not say you have to prove yourself.

ANDERSON: You can only imagine how much you'll be missed by the international community.

Why did you make this decision to retire now?

And have you -- had you been thinking about it for some time?

TUTU: Well, one of the things is you still want to sleep next to the person who's been your partner for 55 years with a (INAUDIBLE). I -- I -- I've had a (INAUDIBLE) just give me a little more time with me -- with me (INAUDIBLE) quality time.


ANDERSON: Taline asks: "As you retire, is the world a better place and how do you think you've contributed to that better place, if, indeed, it is?"

TUTU: The world is a great deal better place. I mean today most people take very seriously the fact that women are equal to men. You -- you get yourself in a lot of trouble if -- if you are still a male chauvinist. You -- you -- you get all kind of (INAUDIBLE). That used not to be the case. It -- it's a better world in -- in the sense that you have an incredible young people, so -- so idealistic, who believe that we can, in fact, have a world where there is no war, where there is no poverty.

ANDERSON: How have the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq impacted the world that we live in, do you think?

Have they made it a more divisive place, or, indeed, a better place for you to retire into?

TUTU: The one major conclusion that we made was that it isn't the faces that are a problem. It is the faithful -- the adherents of a different faith who can make an awful mess of things. Christians are responsible -- have been responsible for the Holocaust. Christians are at each other's throats in -- in Northern Ireland. And so Christians can begin to be hoity-toity. There are good Christians, there are bad Christians. There are good Muslims, there are bad Muslims. And that's almost a tautology.

ANDERSON: Well, Elaine from Dublin asks about the direction of South Africa today and says she wonders whether you think South Africa and the World Cup were the country's coming out party.

TUTU: The -- the World Cup showed us what we are capable of. It showed us what we can be. It -- it -- I mean people now who are still walking on cloud nine, where South Africans of all races really fantastically -- we surprised ourselves. We are flying and still are flying our flags almost like Americans on -- on -- on their cars.

We are -- I'm going to try and say this as modestly as I can. We really are a fantastic people living in one of the best countries in the world. We -- we believe, for us, (INAUDIBLE). And -- and things -- things are OK. But we've got problems. We've got -- we've got crime. We've got poverty. We've got homelessness. But then show me -- show me a country that does not have problems.


ANDERSON: talk to me about your retirement.

What are you looking forward to doing forward most?

TUTU: I have always longed for a slightly more contemplative life, or being able to -- to roll on the lawn with -- with my grandchildren, to -- to go wherever we want to go and not -- and not always be the slaves of schedules. That's part of what a great large -- I mean a very large part of what I'm hoping I'm -- I'm -- we are going to be able to do. In fact, you know, in -- in -- at the end of August, Aletta and I are joining -- maybe we're crazy -- 700 college students from the United States and going around the world in -- in something called Semester At Sea.


ANDERSON: And I can imagine that his students will enjoy it as much as Desmond Tutu will. An exclusive interview as he retires from his public works. His children's bible, though, out today. Always an absolute pleasure to talk to him.

Tomorrow's Connector, well, he is determined that the war in Iraq was illegal. Hans Blix was responsible for taking U.N. inspectors into the country to make sure Saddam Hussein's regime was following prepare nuclear disarmament guidelines. Well, this really clashed with the Bush administration about the motivation for the US-led war in Iraq.

Now, he is in Britain to testify at the Iraq Inquiry.

Do remember, this is your part of the show. Let us know who you want to see as your future Connector. And do remember to tell us -- to tell us where you're weren't in from. Head to or Tweet me atbeckycnn.

Lots more to come on CONNECT THE WORLD tonight, as we join the dots in the day's best stories.

Back in 60 seconds with a story about a man who quite literally has the key to our information future.


ANDERSON: Well, the U.S. war on terror is not just physical, it is digital. So a bipartisan bill currently being considered by the Senate would give the U.S. president a so-called Internet kill switch. It would allow Barack Obama to control or even shut down portions of the Internet if the country faced a major cyber attack.

Well, that is one way for governments to strengthen their cyber security measures. But if you shut down the World Wide Web, you'd need to be able to restart it safely, wouldn't you?

Well, that is where a new safety system comes into play. It sounds like science fiction -- an elite group of security experts across the globe have been given parts of the key that can relaunch the Internet in the aftermath of a terror attack.

No, this is no fantasy tale. There are seven smart cards in play here. They're being safeguarded and supervised by Norm Ritchie of Canadian, Dan Kaminsky in the United States, Bevil Wooding from Trinidad & Tobago, Moussa Guebre of Burkina Faso, Paul Kane here in the United Kingdom, Andre Surrey (ph) of the Czech Republic and, lastly, Jean Kang Yao (ph) from China.

Well earlier, I spoke to one of the men I mentioned, Paul Kane.

Given that safeguarding the future of Internet security is such an important issue, I began by asking him how he was chosen for the job.


KANE: Well, I've been around the Internet space for over 25 years now. And there was a selection process about with just over 60 people from the European region applied. And I was delighted to be selected following extensive background checks and the like. So it's a very exciting day for me personally.

But I'm really insignificant in the whole thing. What's important is DNS Tech, after many, many years of development, is now available for people to use so they can verify that they are talking to the legitimate site independently, using DNS technology.

ANDERSON: Paul, you're on CNN tonight. I mean I'm not telling people where you are, but I mean you're obviously here in the U.K.

Is there a worry that these keys could fall into the wrong hands?

And if so, what could they do?

KANE: The keys themselves have a very, very limited value. In fact, probably no value. You have to bring five of the keys together. You have to know where the secure location is. You have to have access to the hardware. So the key itself is of nominal value. It's just like a credit card. On your credit card, you have a chip. That chip is a memory device. And stored on that memory device is a -- a small fragment that makes up a - - a recovery key which would decrypt the master key so it can be regenerated.

It's -- it's insignificant in its importance, but it's vital in parts of that chain of trust.

ANDERSON: Is it an odd key?

Can you show me?

Or does it look like a normal key?

KANE: I -- I'm sorry, I wish I could show it to you. It is actually secure -- in a secure location here in the U.K. It looks very similar to a credit card. That's it, really.

ANDERSON: I want a scenario here.

In what case would you need to use the key to restart the Internet?

KANE: Really, what these keys are all about is making sure that there are processes in place to really build confidence in this DNS Tech initiative. And so the keys that I hold -- and there are seven of us that hold recovery keys and there are 14 crypto officers. These -- this is all part of the process to demonstrate to the broader community that disaster recovery techniques have been thought through, have a well developed plan. And I congratulate bican (ph), the U.S. government and VeriSign for actually being involved in developing that plan.

ANDERSON: All right, I know that you are one of the key holders. They are all over the world.

But what happens if you can't get to the U.S., for example, where you need to be to start everything?

KANE: Fine. There are seven key holders, as you rightly say, recovery key shareholders. You need five of those key holders to go to the U.S. and present their keys in a secure location in the U.S. And having done that, there are then hardware elements that are stored in the U.S. that would secure location -- two locations in the U.S. And there are then operator keys that are all needed.

And you need all these assets to come together to effectively restart the process of signing the root zone (ph).

The likelihood of actually being required is very, very small. But the point of the process has been just to make sure that there is a backstop, there are -- there is a whole escalation route in the event of having to resign the whole root system.


ANDERSON: That was Paul Kane, making you feel any safer, atbeckycnn is my Tweet. Let me know how you feel. The key to the future of our information.

Coming up next, the dangerous job of guarding the United States' border with Mexico just two days before a controversial new law takes effect in Arizona. We're going to bring the view from both sides of the issue. That is 60 seconds after a very quick look at the headlines for you.


ANDERSON: You are back with CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN. I'm Becky Anderson for you in London. Coming up, the US state of Arizona's controversial immigration law set to go into effect. We turn our attention to the area's deserts, which some say are now teeming with dangerous cross- border smugglers.

The African Union bolstered its peacekeeping force in Somalia. How will the news play with the terror group that claims it launched fatal bombings in Uganda during the World Cup finals?

And finally, a hotel for sale. Well, not exactly. We're going to unravel an elaborate multimillion-dollar hoax to try and sell the Ritz. Unfortunately, the perpetrators discovered a new meaning for the words "no vacancy."

Those stories ahead in the next 30 minutes. Let's give you a very quick check of the headlines this hour.

BP will have a new CEO come October. Robert Dudley, an American, will replace Tony Hayward, who resigned today. Critics blasted Hayward for some controversial comments following the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. The announced change as BP reported a record $17.2 billion loss in the second quarter.

A British court ordered to release former Bosnian leader Ejup Ganic, saying Serbia's attempt to have him extradited was politically motivated. Ganic was arrested five months ago at Heathrow Airport on a Serbian warrant that accused him of orchestrating deadly attacks during the Bosnian war. Serbia plans to appeal the ruling.


DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp.


ANDERSON: A blunt message there from Britain's prime minister during a visit to Turkey. David Cameron criticized a blockade of Gaza, saying humanitarian goods and people should be allowed to flow in both directions. Israel's UK ambassador quickly responded, blaming Hamas for Gaza's hardships.

Global protests have cast a harsh light on Iran's judicial system and the possible stoning to death of a woman who is in jail there. But as Jonathan Mann tells us, even more protests may be needed to help the woman's Iranian lawyer.


JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the world rallied Saturday to protest against the pending execution of Sakineh Mohammedie Ashtiani on grounds of adultery, inside Iran, human rights attorney, Mohammad Mostafaei, the man who championed her cause and the cause of so many others like her on death row, apparently found himself summoned to Evin Prison.

The Ashtiani case, with its worldwide attention, it seems, had also turned the spotlight on Mostafaei. Human rights advocate, Mina Ahadi, herself forced to flee a death sentence in Iran nearly three decades ago, says the Iranian government is putting pressure on Mostafaei and his family to prevent him from speaking out about the Ashtiani case.

MINA AHADI, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE AGAINST EXECUTION AND STONING (through translator): Last week, Mr. Mostafaei received a summons that within three days, he must report to Evin Prison. He went there on Saturday and was interrogated for four hours by the authorities in Evin Prison.

He left Evin Prison and went to his office, where he received a call from the Iranian authorities to return to Evin Prison. He didn't go, and that evening, the authorities came to his office and arrested his wife and his brother-in-law. They have been told that if Mr. Mostafaei presents himself, they will be released.

MANN (voice-over): Mostafaei told CNN in July he'd been imprisoned once in the post-election turmoil in 2009, so he knew the risk of speaking out for the sake of Ashtiani, but said that risk wouldn't deter him from fighting for human rights in Iran.

Now, with word of Mostafaei's family in Evin Prison and his whereabouts unknown, human rights groups are again calling on the international community to speak out and speak up.

AHADI (through translator): I think it is a very dangerous situation for Mr. Mostafaei. If he were to present himself, he might receive 10 to 15 years in prison. I think we must put pressure on the Islamic regime so that his wife and brother will be released.

MANN (voice-over): So far, there's been no comment from Iranian officials on the detention of Mostafaei's relatives or reports that they've issued a warrant for his arrest. Meantime, Sakineh Mohammedie Ashtiani, the mother of two at the center of the stoning controversy, whose name Mostafaei has fought so hard to clear, sits in prison in Tabriz and waits to learn her fate. Jonathan Mann, CNN, Atlanta.


ANDERSON: And those are your headlines this hour. Back to CONNECT THE WORLD, and in just two days, the US state of Arizona is going to implement a controversial new immigration law that has got people all over the world, you and me, talking and taking sides.

The law require police to question people about their immigration status if they've been detained for another reason, if there is reason to suspect that they are in the United States illegally. Opponents say it will promote racial profiling, but authorities in Arizona say they are just enforcing federal law.

We're going to take a look at this from a couple of sides of the story tonight, as CNN's Casey Wian reports, that has become a very dangerous job.


CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the Arizona desert 80 miles north of the Mexican border, a call to 911.



WIAN (voice-over): The code for emergency help requested from Pinal County Sheriff's Deputy Luis Pearl. And then --

PEARL: I've been hit! I've been hit! I've been hit!

WIAN (voice-over): Pearl had been alone on foot, tracking a group of suspected drug smugglers through the desert.

DAVE HALSMAN, PINAL COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: He'd lost sight of him somewhere to the south here. When he came over this ridge, as he was walking down this footpath, the common smuggler path, he got up to a point approximately here, by these rocks.

And just as he crossed here, a male subject jumped up from the tree there where the green tarp is caught, and pointed what he described as an AK-47-style rifle at him and began firing at him from the hip.

He returned fire with his department-issued M-16, and during that, he took on one round.

PEARL: There's at least two guys with AKs. I may have gotten one of them, but I can't tell. I gotta get off the phone and shut up. I just want to let you know where I'm at. I'm going to try to stay here, they're in the brush all around me.

OPERATOR: Copy. Top of the saddle, 50 yards west of the trail.

PEARL: West of the trail. I'm going to stay here unless I have to move.

OPERATOR: OK. All right, Luis. Are you OK?

PEARL: Hell, no, I'm not OK, I've been shot. Tell them to hurry up. And tell my wife I love her.

WIAN (voice-over): A massive search and rescue effort followed. Pearl was found, flown to the hospital, and survived with a gunshot wound above his left hip. The smugglers escaped.

The gunfight took place the day after Arizona lawmakers adopted the final version of the state's controversial anti-illegal immigration law. And it only intensified the debate. Supporters, including Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu, say the shooting reinforces their concern over the growing violence associated with smuggling. Opponents say those concerns are exaggerated.

WIAN (on camera): It's 5:45 in the morning, and we're about to accompany the Pinal County Sheriff's Department to the scene of the shooting. We're in such a dangerous area that they've actually brought a SWAT team along to protect us and to protect the Sheriff. There's also snipers forward deployed to make sure that the drug smugglers don't attack us.

HALSMAN: We know right now we're probably being watched. They already know we're here, so we're hoping when we go in, they've already cleared out.

WIAN (on camera): Do you think most people in America know that 30, 40 miles from a major metropolitan area like Phoenix, we're in a place where we're not safe.

HALSMAN: No. And in that right in this very area, there's squad- sized elements of drug and human smugglers that are here that are heavily armed. As heavily armed as our SWAT team now. And they have a lot of the same communications, sometimes even better.

WIAN (on camera): Given the amount of law enforcement presence we need to have here, though, who controls this territory, would you say?

HALSMAN: Obviously, we don't.

WIAN (voice-over): Arizona governor Jan Brewer echoes that claim. In this campaign ad, she's standing in front of a nearby federal government sign warning people to stay out of the desert because of the presence of smugglers.

JAN BREWER, GOVERNOR OF ARIZONA: This is an outrage. Washington says our border is as safe as it has ever been. Does this look safe to you?

WIAN (voice-over): As for the shooting of Deputy Pearl, sheriff's department investigators say they've discredited the theory that it was somehow staged.

WIAN (on camera): Is there any evidence that you've seen that this was anything other than what he reported, an encounter with suspected drug smugglers who shot at him, and he returned fire?

HALSMAN: None at all. From our investigative standpoint, this is a criminal activity that occurred where someone committing a crime in our county and in our state fired a weapon and attempted to kill one of our deputies.

WIAN (on camera): This is just some of the marijuana that Pinal County sheriff's deputies have seized over the past several months. And this is how it's often transported across the border. As you an see, this has been made into basically a backpack. And it weighs more than 50 pounds. These drug smugglers walk across the border, through the desert, over hills, for miles and miles carrying these heavy loads.

WIAN (voice-over): And here are some clear signs of drug loads that made it to the streets of the United States. This smuggler's bush, with fresh remnants of drug packs, sits 80 miles from Mexico, but less than 100 yards off US Interstate 8. No more than 30 miles from the Phoenix suburbs. Casey Wian, CNN, Pinal County, Arizona.


ANDERSON: Well, you and I know that not everybody is a drug smuggler as they try to cross that border. Mexico's national human rights commission says it will send inspectors to monitor deportations that might occur under Arizona's new law. One of the places those inspectors will be stationed is the border crossing at Nogales in Arizona. And that is where CNN's Juan Carlos Lopez is now.

Now, Nogales, Juan Carlos, is one of the main entry points into the United States from Mexico. What are people there saying about the new law?

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been able to talk to people with different positions on SB 1070, and as you can see, we're in monsoon season. It's raining very hard. But the figures show that the majority of Arizonans support the law, and we've been able to speak with people who are for and against it.

I spoke with a police officer today, a deputy sheriff, telling us that he doesn't think a lot will change starting Thursday, that there's just a lot of fear out of people not knowing the law well. But there is concern over a gray area, and that is when police -- the police department will resort to probably cause, or when they will go to reasonable suspicion. And that, many fear, we'll have a problem.

But it is a contentious issue. People are linking it to the drug trade, and they all want something to be done either way.

ANDERSON: Sure. Let me just put this to you. I hope I'm not catching you out on something that you haven't had time to explore yet. But just how many people do you get the sense actually running the border from the area that you're working out of at the moment?

LOPEZ: Well, you have main crossing points. This is a live border. The cities are linked, the business are linked. But we found examples of what you're asking about in Juarez, a city that is in crisis, and many people are moving to El Paso, and many businessmen are moving. And El Paso's benefiting from that crisis.

The people in Las Cruces were saying that they want something done because they're afraid something similar could happen. But today, just riding along on the border, we're told it's very safe. There are incidents, but not as widely spread as many believe. And they think that with more boots on the ground, things could change.

ANDERSON: Fascinating stuff. We'll continue this, Juan Carlos. We thank you for joining us this Tuesday evening. CNN, of course, is devoting a special week of coverage, the worldwide debate over immigration, and the conflicts that arise because of it. It's an issue that knows no specific borders, and we will look at all viewpoints.

Thursday, we're going to bring you a special edition of CONNECT THE WORLD, devoted entirely to that issue. We want to hear from you. Has immigration affected your life? How about how you feel about immigration policies in the country that you're in? Have you left one country for another? Have you done it illegally, and if so, why? Head to the website, tell us your stories, We'll try and use as many of your comments as we can on Thursday's show at this time. It's 43 minutes past nine this Tuesday evening.

A US official says this month's bombings in Uganda were a wake-up call to the entire region about this, the threat from al-Shabab. The African Union is listening, beefing up its force fighting in Somalia, fighting the Somalia-based militants. But we're going to see why some believe that that move could backfire.


ANDERSON: New efforts to stop al Qaeda's growing threat in Africa are stories that are inherently connective, aren't they? This is CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson. The African Union has agreed to send thousands more troops to fight al-Shabab militants in Somalia. After their first known attack outside their country home, in Uganda, of course. But David McKenzie explains why some believe al-Shabab could be laying a trap. Have a listen.


DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They flew in from across the continent, the big men of Africa congregating at an African Union summit in Kampala, dominated by Somalia. A country wracked by two decades of civil war.

Just over two weeks ago, deadly suicide blasts ripped through twin locations in Kampala, Uganda, killing more than 70. The attacks were claimed by al-Shabab, an al Qaeda-linked Somalia militant group. And they shook the confidence of the region.

The African Union and its backers want to bolster the AU peacekeeping force, which now consists of about 6,000 trips from Uganda and Burundi.

JOHNNIE CARSON, US ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: We believe that its' necessary to have more troops on the ground, and we in Washington have committed ourselves to support additional troops on the ground in the same fashion that we have supported the existing Burundi and Ugandan troops.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Now at least 2,000 additional troops from Guinea and Djibouti will join them in the chaotic streets of Mogadishu, where they only control a few city blocks. More troops could follow.

The peacekeepers are seen as the only real force standing in the way of al-Shabab's expansion.

JEAN PING, AFRICAN UNION CHAIRMAN: If we don't go there, who will be the next? Because it's a continuing operation. They want to destroy everybody. Not only Africa. So we have to deal with it.

MCKENZIE (on camera): African Union leadership has long complained that western powers and member states don't give enough support in the fight against al-Shabab in Somalia. This troop expansion could mean a wider military engagement. But some leading analysts say that this strategy could backfire.

RASHID ABDI, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: I have no doubts in my mind that this is a trap, which al-Shabab is busy laying for the African troops. If the African response is that, let's increase troops, let's send in more boots on the ground in the hope that we'll stabilize the situation, I think they are dead wrong.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): UN and US troops failed in the 90s to stabilize Somalia. More recently, Ethiopian troops were driven out.

If more African troops are sent in, then the AU force, already unpopular for shelling neighborhoods in the capital, could give al-Shabab the broad populace support it desperately needs.

ANDRIS PIEBALGS, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR DEVELOPMENT: The end of debate. Solution is not military. Solution is political. If you get more and more people supporting transitional federal government in Somalia, this is where the success comes. It does not come with more troops.

MCKENZIE (voice-over): The African Union says a basic level of security is needed before Somalia can even think about a stable government. But there are fears that with a large influx of troops, Somalia could slide even deeper into chaos. David McKenzie, CNN, Nairobi, Kenya.


ANDERSON: What can only be described as a quandary, then. So what is the best approach to securing Somalia? I let's put that to one of our big thinkers on the show, a regular guest. Emira Woods with the Instituted for Policy Studies in Washington.

A number of people in David's report, it has to be said, said that sending more troops, Emira, to Somalia could backfire. Do you agree with that?

EMIRA WOODS, INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES: Absolutely. What Somalis are clamoring for is to be able to choose a government that they see as credible, and then to be able to hold that government accountable. But time and time again, we see the military option being put forward by the African Union, by neighboring countries, by the international community. And Somalis are still shut out of a process where they can actually have what they want.

ANDERSON: All right.

WOODS: The ability to choose their own destiny freely.

ANDERSON: But is Somalia really in a position to act upon and create democratic institutions as sort the environment where a vote would be a free vote at this point, without any problems? I'm not sure about that, are you?

WOODS: Well, the problem is, we're continuously militarizing an already militarized situation. What Somalia needs least is more and more guns. And yet, that seems to be what the international community is really good at getting in.

So at a time when you have a humanitarian crisis with Somali civilians actually at a difficult situation, we cannot get humanitarian assistance to Somalis, but we can get guns to Somalis. And what is seen is an imbalance, really, where the emphasis is on troops. It's on private military contractors. It's on support for a government that actually uses child soldiers. And now what is seen is, now the African Union pushing for a mandate to be even more aggressive, often with civilians being caught in the crossfire.

ANDERSON: OK. Whatever the international --

WOODS: So clearly, this is not the solution.

ANDERSON: All right. Clearly whatever the international community's motivation is, and that's perhaps, a whole other discussion tonight. It isn't working. Let's face that. Al-Shabab, meanwhile, attacking Uganda because of, they say, the involvement of AU peacekeeping forces in Somalia. Will al-Shabab widen its focus to other countries? And what do you read into this first foray outside of its homeland, as it were?

WOODS: Clearly there is growing sentiment against intervention by outsiders, whether the outsiders are Americans or Ethiopians, and now Ugandans and others being added to the list. What is needed is for Somalis to be able to, not feel that their destiny is being controlled by outsiders, but to take control of their own destiny for themselves.

And I think that is the ultimate solution. It is a political solution. It was said so beautifully in your package. It is a political solution that's needed. And yet, what you see is a military response time and time again. This has not worked in the past, and it likely will not work now.

ANDERSON: For those who don't know as much about the Horn of Africa as you do, why don't you talk about al-Shabab. Out of interest, how many people are we talking about? Fighters and sympathizers, a broad guess.

WOODS: Clearly al-Shabab means "youth." It means "young people." Organizing. It is a consortium of groups, actually several groups working together in Somalia. But what has happened is that military intervention is actually increasing their ranks. It's increasing their numbers. It's giving them more strength, more power, more visibility. And it's actually working against those who are committed to long-term peace and stability in Somalia.

So we have a situation that is a crisis moment. And it's having implications in the region. Clearly you have an election in Uganda coming up in a year. The issues of al-Shabab wanting Ugandan troops out of Somalia has become already an issue in the presidential campaign in Uganda.

And you see parallels. It's the same in the US, where issues of the US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan are seen as actually contributing to instability, not further peace and security. And you see Somalis say exactly similar things, that you're actually growing an insurgency instead of bringing peace and stability to a country that so desperately needs it.

ANDERSON: You draw some very sensible parallels. As ever, we love having you on the show. You're always a guest that we enjoy. Fifty-three minutes past the hour, Emira Woods out of Washington for you now.

Audacity on one side, embarrassment on the other. A con man tries to sell London's Ritz Hotel. And let me tell you, he almost gets away with it.


ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back. This is CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson for you out of London. Now, $389 million for London's Ritz Hotel. That would be a steal, right? Well, legally the answer is a resounding "yes." Ayesha Durgahee looks at a British con man who's paying the price for trying to sell something he didn't own.


AYESHA DURGAHEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): An unemployed lorry driver has just been jailed for five years after trying to sell a famous London landmark, the Ritz Hotel.

DURGAHEE (voice-over): Forty-nine-year-old Anthony Lee from North Yorkshire came up with a plan to sell the Ritz for $389 million.

DURGAHEE (on camera): Anthony Lee managed to get a down payment of $1.5 million after convincing a potential buyer that he was, in fact, a close friend of the owners, the billionaire Barclay brothers.

DURGAHEE (voice-over): By the time the brothers found out an imposter was trying to sell their 104-year-old hotel, it was too late. The buyer, Terrence Collins, had already handed over the $1.5 million.

It took two years for the North Yorkshire police to track down Anthony Lee. And after a four-week trial, the jury found him guilty of what the judge called an elaborate and outrageous scam. Ayesha Durgahee, CNN, London.


ANDERSON: Well, of course, this gave us the excuse to take a look at some other infamous fake sales. Con man George Parker, you may remember, sold New York's public landmarks to gullible buyers. He reportedly sold the Brooklyn Bridge twice in a week. Or twice a week, in fact, for years. He also tried to sell the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Statue of Liberty.

In 1925, Victor Lustig sold the Eiffel Tower by posing as a government official. Said the city couldn't afford it and wanted to sell the tower for scrap metal. He got away with it once, but he was eventually caught trying the same scheme.

Also in the 20s, Scottish con man Arthur Ferguson sold several English landmarks to wealthy Americans. Icons like Big Ben, Trafalgar Square, and Buckingham Palace. Ferguson moved to the US, where he was caught. Guess what he was caught trying to do? He was trying to sell the Statue of Liberty. Good man.

I'm Becky Anderson. You are -- you've been watching CONNECT THE WORLD. You've been connected. Stay with us, the world headlines up after a really short break.


ANDERSON: The biggest sporting show on Earth as we go through the lens for you this evening. Countdown to 2012. It's two days -- or two years to the day until London kicks off the Summer Olympics. The host city will be cheered on by those kooky one-eyed mascots, Wenlock and Mandeville. The choice baffled some, but these school kids are clearly delighted.

Fireworks light up the sky at the European athletics championship in Barcelona. A smooth start to the opening ceremony, but a rough landing for the Russian long jumper on the first day of the competition. Whoa. A spectacular world of sports in your World in Pictures this evening.

Just before we close out the show, about a minute or so to go, we told you earlier that we are devoting our whole show on Thursday to a worldwide debate over immigration. In preparation for that, on the website, we asked you to share your views on immigration where you live and how it's affected your life.

Caligirl has written to us, and she says, "I'm an American married to a German. We live in the US and went through the proper channels to get residency. I have no pity for those who use illegal means to be here."

Bhaskar thinks authorities have some work to do, writing, "The government needs to address the legal immigrants first. This would motivate the rest to keep the law."

I don't want to hear just from people in the States, though. Do write into us from wherever you live around the world at I'm Becky Anderson, that is your world connected. "BackStory" up next, right after a very quick check, as promised, of the headlines.