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JOY BEHAR SHOW

Regis Retiring from "Live"; Michael Jackson, a Great Dad?; Sarah Palin Speaks

Aired January 18, 2011 - 22:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: I`m loving my brand new time slot, 10:00 p.m. and for those of you who are asleep by 10, just TIVO it, ok. That`s right. I`m talking to you, Hugh Hefner and John McCain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, it`s the end of a very long era. TV icon Regis Philbin, the man who`s logged more hours on television than anyone else is calling it quits. So can the live franchise survive without him? And who could possibly replace a legend like Regis.

Then, "Jersey Shore" star Snooki apologizes for her YouTube rant against Joy.

Plus new reports indicate suspected Arizona gunman, Jared Loughner was a frequent user of the legal drug salvia. So did that herbal drug alter his state of mind?

That and more starting right now.

BEHAR: On his show this morning, my pal Regis Philbin made a huge announcement and no it didn`t involve his cholesterol. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REGIS PHILBIN, HOST, "LIVE! WITH REGIS AND KELLY": This will be my last year on this show. No, I -- I know. It`s been a long time. It`s been 28 years since I`ve been here. And it was the biggest thrill of my life to come back to New York where I grew up as a kid watching TV in the early days.

There is a time that, you know, everything must come to an end for certain people on -- on camera, especially certain old people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Oh, after 28 years and three different co-hosts, the talk show legend is retiring from "Live with Regis and Kelly". Regis didn`t specify a departure date, but said it would be around the end of this summer.

So, who will replace the TV icon and can the show live on without the Reg?

Here now to discuss this is the one and only Larry King and joining us by phone, Miss Kathie Lee Gifford. You know, Larry you and Regis are friends. Did you know this was coming or you were you -- did you plan your retirements to dovetail like this?

LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: I had no idea it was coming, although you know, it hit -- it did hit the scene at same time. Regis did not say if he was going to be doing anything else. I plan to do other things. I took a -- I thought it was time to leave "Larry King Live". But I`m going to be doing four specials and doing other things.

BEHAR: Yes.

KING: In Regis`s case I don`t know if he`s -- did he say anything about doing something else? Or did he just say goodbye?

BEHAR: Well, I -- my understanding is that he used the odd word. He did say he`s retiring. Kathie, were you surprised? Kathie Lee, when you heard the news?

KATHIE LEE GIFFORD, CO-HOST, TODAY SHOW 4TH HOUR (via telephone): No, by the way Larry, how are you? Congratulations to you.

BEHAR: To Larry, yes.

KING: Thanks dear.

BEHAR: Ok.

GIFFORD: No, you know. Regis and I have dinner every six weeks or so and the last couple of times that we`ve had dinner, he is -- he`s pretty much told me that that`s what he was thinking about and he seems excited about it, actually.

He seems -- like it`s time and you know, I don`t want to overstay my welcome, he would say. And I say, well, Regis, it`s yours for as long as you want it. And he says, I know, but you know it`s -- it`s -- after a certain while and I know this as my -- my husband did Monday night football for 28 years as well, you want -- you want to control your own schedule a little bit.

BEHAR: Yes.

GIFFORD: You know, you don`t want to have to be some place live on the air no matter how much your rheumatoid arthritis is -- is -- and believe me I -- I know that already myself.

It`s kind of nice to know, you know what, I can read the paper this morning, I can sit around in my track suit as long as I want to and I can choose the kind of life I want to live now.

BEHAR: Yes.

GIFFORD: I don`t think he`s going to retire in the sense of -- of never doing anything again. That`s not like Reg, he`s --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Probably not. You know.

(CROSS TALK)

GIFFORD: No, I don`t think so.

BEHAR: I -- I went on -- I went on the road with him. Did you ever go on the road with him Kathie?

GIFFORD: Oh yes.

BEHAR: Yes.

GIFFORD: Yes, we took our nightclub act all over the country.

BEHAR: He actually has an act, Larry. You know what I mean? You`ve seen it right?

KING: I know.

BEHAR: Yes.

KING: Sure.

BEHAR: I mean, so -- so you know, he has something that he probably will be doing in terms of performing a little bit.

KING: Let me say, Joy, it`s impossible to retire as -- as Milton Berle once said, retire to what?

GIFFORD: Right.

KING: Like you -- you -- you`ve got to -- people like Regis and myself and Kathie and you, you`ve got to -- you`ve got do something. You`ve got to --

BEHAR: I know.

KING: -- you get up. Yes, you have more time to yourself. Yes, I have more time with my children, but, there`s a big but, you want to do other things. You want to do new adventures.

GIFFORD: Yes.

KING: You want to try other things. So, the fact that he`s 79 is immaterial. It`s immaterial, Regis is a young 79.

BEHAR: I agree with that.

GIFFORD: He`s in great shape. Great shape, he takes good care of himself. That`s mostly because of Joy. She -- she really --

BEHAR: Not me. Yes not me, I have nothing to do with making Regis happy at night. Let`s get that straight.

KING: Well.

BEHAR: Let`s just get that straight.

GIFFORD: No, you know, they`ve loved to play tennis. They love -- more and more, these winters are getting harder and harder for all of us. These New York winters, you know you have to know why, you just kind of go, gee, you start to look at the weather map and go, it`s 84 in Palm Beach. It`s 86 out in L.A. and you kind of go, why am I still doing this?

(CROSS TALK)

KING: Well, let me --

GIFFORD: I don`t have to do it anymore.

BEHAR: But Larry, go ahead Larry.

KING: Why -- why? By the way, why -- why does Regis, I`ll have to ask him next time I see him, he`ll be at the Palm here I`m sure. I`m looking outside now, it`s 81 degrees in Beverly Hills.

BEHAR: Oh all right.

KING: There isn`t a cloud in the sky. Why would you suffer? Why?

BEHAR: Because New York is the greatest town, that`s why; and we prefer to suffer than to be in the sun. Whatever.

GIFFORD: When you`re suffering, you know you`re alive.

BEHAR: That`s right. That`s right. When I lived in Hollywood, I was so depressed because every day, it`s sunny. Maybe you feel depressed that day, maybe you want to read a depressing poem, you can`t because everybody`s jogging and having fun. We like it here in the misery.

KING: And it`s delightful to be in a place -- it`s delightful to be in a place where it`s six feet of snow and you can`t move and your ears are freezing off. This keeps you going. And you could read more J.D. Salinger.

BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly.

GIFFORD: -- and Donald Trump playing on Fridays or Thursdays and -- and fly down the (INAUDIBLE) for the weekends. They`ve been doing that for a few years now, and that`s -- and he likes it. I don`t blame them and they get to play tennis.

KING: Right.

GIFFORD: You know, the thing it is, you know it comes down to you guys, this -- it`s when you -- you start to wonder how many years you have left on this earth to begin with. Then you say to yourself, how much money do I need to live the kind of life I truly want to live and God knows Reg can live any kind of life he wants.

KING: Right.

GIFFORD: And he`s earned every penny of that. And then, you say, you know what? I -- I want to control my own life a little bit. If it`s -- I -- I -- if I see that a snowstorm is coming in New York, I can get on a plane and go to Florida, go to California. You know you just -- it`s about control I think after a while.

BEHAR: You know, last month --

KING: That`s true. Absolutely true. What you have now Joy is control.

BEHAR: Yes.

KING: He has now a control he didn`t have.

BEHAR: Right. But you know last month, you did your last, your final "Larry King Live" show and Regis was one of your last guests. So let`s take a look at the clip from that show when Regis thanked you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILBIN: One day we were on a -- a plane coming back From Notre Dame, Larry and I. And I hear Larry singing --

KING: That`s right.

PHILBIN: -- a dear old song and so we began doing it.

But I got one for your tonight, Larry, ok.

KING: Go.

PHILBIN: Totally unrehearsed.

KING: All right.

PHILBIN: So long for a while that`s all that came for a while -- yours -- Larry, you don`t let me down now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: You know, that was a -- it was bromance and it was beautiful to watch. Are you going to be singing to Regis on his last show and what song will you sing?

KING: A well, some day when I`m awfully low and the world is cold I will feel a glow just thinking of you Reg and the way you look tonight.

BEHAR: Oh, look at you two.

GIFFORD: Well, I don`t think it`s starting to make sense to me now, Joy.

BEHAR: Well, I`m very, now, I`m scared, Kathie Lee of what`s going on.

GIFFORD: Now, it`s frightening me.

BEHAR: I`ll tell you if Reg -- if Regis moves to the West Coast, I`m writing another column on that.

KING: Oh, oh.

BEHAR: I tell you right now. I`m calling up GLAAD about it.

So let`s look at another clip. Now, Regis was on my show a little over a year ago and he joked about someone gunning for his job. Listen to this. This is cute.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Anderson Cooper has been sitting in for you. Do you think he has you`re mojo?

PHILBIN: He wants my job so bad.

BEHAR: Does he have your mojo?

PHILBIN: Anderson Cooper every night dreams about getting my job permanently, really.

BEHAR: Really?

PHILBIN: He doesn`t want to grow up like the Wolf. He wants his own job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Any thoughts on who could replace Regis? I mean, I know, Arnold Schwarzenegger is available.

KING: By the way.

BEHAR: Yes.

KING: You know, Anderson, if he hadn`t signed on to do a syndicated show, he would have gotten that gig.

BEHAR: Larry, what do we say in the comedy business? Timing is everything. Right?

KING: Correct.

BEHAR: Yes.

KING: He would be a good co-host. Seacrest has got nothing to do.

BEHAR: Seacrest? You`re always pushing Seacrest. You act like you gave birth to Seacrest; enough with the Seacrest.

KING: I tell you why. I want him to be the first man in broadcasting to be on the air 24 hours a day.

BEHAR: I know. I see that.

I hate to go. I have to go and we have to go to the next segment. Thank you, Kathie Lee. I`m going to be on your show soon. I understand Kathie Lee, so I look forward to that.

And Larry, we love you. Thanks very much. We`ll be back in a minute.

A.J. HAMMER, HLN CO-HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Coming up tonight on "Showbiz Tonight," Regis spilled he`s leaving "Live with Regis and Kelly". Can the show really go on without him? We`ll see at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up, a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, "Jersey Shore" star Snooki apologizes for her YouTube rant against Joy.

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: Rabbi Shmuley Boteach is a best-selling author, renowned family adviser and a father of nine. His new book, "Honoring the Child`s Spirit" is based on never-before heard conversations he had with Michael Jackson about parenting, childhood and what adults can learn from kids.

With me now to talk about it is himself, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Hi there Rabbi.

RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, AUTHOR, "HONORING THE CHILD`S SPIRIT": Hello. Thanks for having me.

BEHAR: Now, you recorded hours of intimate conversations with Michael Jackson over a two-year period. Ok.

Um1: Correct.

BEHAR: What`s the most important take away value that you got out of those conversations?

Um1: Well, he felt parents were neglecting their children because they didn`t understand how much they get from their children. Michael believed that he was a star and successful because he retained his child- like qualities. Adults lose their imagination, their creativity, they become rigid, set in their ways. But kids are very open and he felt he got that openness from being around his kids.

BEHAR: I see. So, the Never Land and the whole Peter Pan syndrome that he was into is being justified in this way.

Um1: Well, I mean, for him there was a formal confrontation. He felt that he had been robbed of a childhood. That it was an essential step of life.

BEHAR: That`s right.

Um1: And that you build your how on a rickety foundation when you don`t value your childhood.

BEHAR: That`s right. And his father was tough.

Um1: Very tough.

BEHAR: Very tough on him.

Now, are you cool --

Um1: He loves his father but he was afraid of his father.

BEHAR: Everyone`s afraid of Joe Jackson. Everybody`s scared of Joe.

Now, you called him a wonderful and rare parent to Prince, Paris and Blanket. First of all, Blanket is not the kid`s name, is it?

Um1: I never met Blanket. I said he was a great father to Prince and Paris. Michael was not a perfect parent.

BEHAR: But Blanket is not the boy`s name.

Um1: I don`t know. It`s Prince Michael II or something.

BEHAR: Yes.

Um1: Michael is not a perfect father. He made a lot of mistakes. I mean he veiled the children because he hated when people speculated as to their paternity. He also -- their mother wasn`t involved in their life. That`s a huge no-no. I mean you have two parents, you have to have both of them around.

But it terms of prioritizing his kids -- I mean he had every excuse to say I`m doing concerts, I`m flying around the world. He never left them. He always read to them.

He would often call me from Never Land and wake me up in the middle of the night to say, Prince asked me a very difficult question. He doesn`t want to just dismiss it with the answer, "I wouldn`t know the answer." I would have to look it up.

BEHAR: In the middle of the night? You have to wake up and start looking up answers.

Um1: Well, he kept -- Michael kept very, very late hours. Yes. But it just shows --

BEHAR: How did you have nine kids like this?

Um1: I have videos of that as well, but that`s for after 11:00 Joy.

BEHAR: Ok. But what was I going to say to you -- the thing about him is, were those kids his genetic kids? That`s what I want to ask.

Um1: You know, I don`t know. And I always felt that it was sort of - -

BEHAR: They don`t look like him really.

Um1: I always felt it was inappropriate to ask him because I always thought to myself, if I go to someone`s house for dinner and I sit there looking at a child saying, you know, he doesn`t like you, did you have an affair?

BEHAR: No, it`s a rude question but I`m asking you what you thought.

Um1: I really don`t know. I tried to limit my friendship to areas where he was prepared to reveal himself. Look, I never really found out what happened with the children`s mother, either. I used to tell Michael all the time, I`m a child of divorce, I`m close to both my parents. That`s the way your kids ought to be. And he would say you don`t understand. I saw it was an area he didn`t want to discuss.

BEHAR: Ok. Now, here`s a snippet of Michael talking to you about how important it is to show approval towards children. Watch.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I think a little showing of approval, that it is, you`re doing the right thing. To be kind, to be loving to somebody who`s giving, sitting there laughing. The children show it all the time, but they`re afraid like when somebody gives them something and they jump all over them when they come again.

Is it ok? Of course, it`s ok. They need our smile of approval in a lot of ways.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BEHAR: That`s true, what he said.

Um1: Yes. And he felt he didn`t get it.

BEHAR: He didn`t get it from his father.

Um1: You know, he says -- I asked him once. I said, do you think you made your father proud. He says, oh I hope I did. He once said to me, good show, and that`s all I ever got.

I think Michael`s father came from the school of if I say too much, you won`t be motivated, so I`ll say little.

BEHAR: Right.

Um1: And I think now, we`ve changed. I think we understand the importance of affirmation with our kids.

BEHAR: Ok, now this is interesting because it was recently reported that Michael insisted that a Las Vegas dentist put the kid out, six-year- old Blanket, to a dental procedure even though the dentist did not have a license to do anesthesia.

So what do you make of that? Is that good parenting.

Um1: Well, number one is, what I make of it is that Michael was surrounded by corrupt doctors who did this stuff all the time. I mean Conrad Murray, unless I hear something drastically different to what I know about prescription drug medication, the truckload that he gave to Michael. With all due respect, the man belongs in jail.

And he`s not the only one. All of these sycophants, all of these brownnosers who facilitated Michael`s self destruction, have yet to be held accountable. And if we don`t hold them accountable, God forbid, some of the others are following.

Miley Cyrus isn`t it a great place, I don`t think; Paris Hilton; Lindsay Lohan. We have to tell stars --

BEHAR: Those are just the famous ones.

Um1: Yes, yes. Well, there`s so many that aren`t but people want to be in that retinue.

Was it responsible parenting? Of course not. I am in no way saying that Michael didn`t make huge mistakes as a father. I am saying --

BEHAR: What about the molestation charges against him? People will be startled that he was -- in this book, you say what a good parent he was, and yet we hear that he was charged with molestation on a few kids.

Um1: Well, I`ve been so critical of Michael`s mistakes. You know what? I think I`m some --

BEHAR: Those are not mistakes. Those are crimes if it`s true.

Um1: Right. Right. What I`m saying is this.

What I`m saying is this, I`ve been so critical of his mistakes that when I say that I don`t believe certain things, I think I have a certain credibility on it.

I condemned Michael for confessing almost bragging that he shared a bed with someone else`s child. I believe it was platonic, non-sexual, Michael saw himself as a giant kid. But it`s still immoral. You cannot share a bed with a child that`s not your own.

Having said that, I don`t believe for a moment Michael was a pedophile.

BEHAR: Well, they paid the family off.

Um1: Well, in 2003, he was utterly exonerated. I knew that family. I was there in Never Land when the family arrived

BEHAR: He was totally exonerated or they paid the family off?

Um1: No, no. In 2003, he was completely exonerated. In 1993, from what I understand because I wasn`t there, Johnny Cochran was his lawyer, comes in late and says, you know, this is destroying your career, pay it off. Michael always said to me that was a mistake. He shouldn`t have done it. And he shouldn`t have done it.

And there`s a lot of -- the things --

BEHAR: Gone to bed with a kid.

Um1: No, he shouldn`t have confessed what people saw guilt by settling instead of going to trial. He should have gone to trial the same way he went to trial in 2003.

BEHAR: Where there`s smoke, there`s fire, rabbi. I`m sorry. A grown man gets into the bed with a kid who is not his kid. Come on.

Um1: But Joy, we do have to distinguish between smoke and fire. One is non-substantive, the other is. I`m telling you Michael, cannot share a bed -- could not share a bed with a child that wasn`t his own.

The reason why our friendship fragmented is that I would tell him that he can`t do certain things and he wasn`t used to hearing that. And if it meant -- you know what you see --

BEHAR: I got to go. I have to go. I`m sorry to cut you off. You`re coming back for the next segment.

Um1: I`m going nowhere.

BEHAR: So we`ll be back with some more of Rabbi Shmuley.

Um1: And the segment after that.

BEHAR: Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the latest on suspected Arizona gunman, Jared Loughner. Reports say he was a frequent user of the herbal drug, salvia. Did the drug influence Loughner`s state of mind.

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: I`m back with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach; and joining us now is my old pal, Roy Sekoff, founding editor of the "Huffington Post".

Now, last night, Sarah Palin finally broke her silence, making her first TV appearance since her infamous video response to the Tucson shooting.

Here she is on Hannity defending her controversial use of the expression, "blood libel". Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: That term has been used for eons, Sean. So again, it was part of that double standard thing and goes back to if it weren`t for the double standards, what standards would they have, I suppose?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Ok. Rabbi, were you offended by Palin`s use of the term "blood libel"?

Um1: No, not at all. "Blood Libel" is the original accusation that the Jews killed Jesus and became bloodthirsty as a result and ended up slaughtering Christian children and pouring their blood into Passover mantels (ph). What is operative in that statement is that the fact the Jews were innocent of the charge and therefore can be used by anyone who is accused innocently of being an accessory to murder.

The fact is, you can say that -- if you hate Sarah Palin, you can say you don`t like her, she`s pedestrian, she`s stupid, whatever you want. But when you accuse someone or any group of people who are an amorphous mass and can`t defend themselves because they`re too numerous to be defended independently, you simply, that is a blood libel.

I mean, it was an unfair charge and it was uncivil. It was wrong.

BEHAR: Ok. You agree with that, Roy?

ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, "HUFFINGTON POST": I do think that there`s no a direct connection between Palin. So I don`t have --

BEHAR: We all agree with that.

SEKOFF: Right. But they made --

BEHAR: She didn`t even know about it.

SEKOFF: They`re making a conscious decision to use this kind of language. It wasn`t just happenstance. Palin said "blood libel". Then "The Washington Times" said "pogrom" against conservatives. Then Pat Buchanan said it was a "lynch mob".

Why does the party of the angry white man insist on using these terms that are about minorities? You know what I mean?

BEHAR: Yes. Good point.

SEKOFF: They are geniuses at playing the victim. So let`s just give them the victim card and move on already. I mean it`s just --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Also what about Rabbi, the fact that, you know, one is about a group of people, the Jews, who have been vilified for centuries, tortured, thrown into gas chambers and then she uses the term to defend Sarah Palin. It`s like, hello let`s wave these two things.

Um1: Yes, but Joy I don`t want my community being distinguished for its suffering. I don`t want us to co-opt every single word that represents being oppressed and persecuted and hated. We represent something positive. All of the Jews --

BEHAR: Get that spotlight off of me.

Um1: I don`t want to be a victim as a Jew. I don`t want to say that "blood libel" is ours and "pogrom" is ours. We have suffered, there`s no question. But I want to get in the game of one-upmanship on who suffered the most.

The fact is, that it`s uncivil political dialogue to point your finger when someone is connected to murder and say you are responsible for this.

BEHAR: I see your point.

SEKOFF: Absolutely right. I`m saying that as a general group. But Palin in particular, it becomes very much about her and this whole culture of the victimization.

You know, we saw the head of the Arizona Tea Party saying well maybe she should have had more security, Representative Giffords. They`re the victims. It`s constantly this victimization thing.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And blame the real victim.

Um1: I agree with that.

BEHAR: Let`s look at something else because people criticize her a lot for making the Tucson story about her. Let`s watch another clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PALIN: This isn`t about me. And my response four days after this horrendous event and in my response, I talked about defending those who were innocent, had nothing to do with the shooting. And my defense wasn`t self-defense. It was defending those falsely accused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Why can`t she put a sentence together with a period and then a comma? She just goes on, I can`t follow here. But she says that one thing I got out of that is, it`s not about me. Isn`t that about her?

Um1: Well, let`s be fair. Let`s be fair. She`s the biggest star of the Republican Party and President Obama is the biggest star of the Democratic Party and he`s accused of using the word "I" in his speeches and she`s accused of certain narcissism.

The fact is, these big political constellations are going to draw a lot of attention and that`s how they stay in the news. And I feel it`s much more of an indictment of us.

If we have a problem with political narcissism then we have to stop obsessing over personality and focus instead on issues. But America is a personality-driven culture, from celebrity to politics.

BEHAR: Ok.

SEKOFF: Of course, I agree with you. But here`s the thing about Palin. She had the opportunity in your comparison with Obama. He elevated above the moment. He reached out above -- she went back to her thing, throwing bombs, throwing rhetoric. That`s why she remains this political Rorschach test. If you liked her before this interview, you thought she did a great job. If you didn`t like her before, you thought she was horrible.

BEHAR: Right.

SEKOFF: You know. She hasn`t been able to expand beyond the base and that`s why I think she`s very limited.

BEHAR: Her answer after the shooting should have been I`m very sorry if anything that I have done caused anything in this situation. I really apologize. No one thought that she was connected to it really at the end of the day.

Um1: I have to say that political conservatives, I think, squandered an opportunity to talk about American values because this wasn`t about politicizing a death. It was the fact that there are so many angry men in America. They take these guns, and they shoot up McDonald`s.

And they feel disenfranchised, someone`s always slighting them. There was talk that Gabby Giffords did not respond to his question about what the meaning of the words. And we saw in Columbine --

BEHAR: You can trigger these people with anything.

Um1: Because they feel so belittled.

SEKOFF: Right. exactly.

Um1: I mean we need different values and a different definition of (INAUDIBLE). And the Republicans could have talked about values.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Ok. I have to go. Ok, but they didn`t. Thank you, guys very much.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: New reports say the Tucson shooting suspect, Jared Lee Loughner, was a frequent user of salvia. That`s the legal hallucinogenic drug pop star Miley Cyrus was allegedly seen using last month. This new revolution about Loughner and salvia is prompting some to wonder if the drug had any influence on his mental state. Now here now, we`re going to talk about this with Colin Goddard, a survivor of the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting. He`s featured in the new documentary, "Living for 32." Also, Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV and Dr. Julie Holland, psychiatrist and author of "Weekends at Bellevue."

Jean, what do we know about this salvia use in Loughner`s case?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Well, his friends have said that he had it on him all the time. And if so, I just wonder, Joy, when they arrested him, did they have it. Now, this could be the beginning of a defense, but remember, voluntarily intoxication, that`s no excuse.

BEHAR: Right.

CASAREZ: But if you`re saying that he`s mentally ill, that he did not know right from wrong, and I think that`s the only defense they could go for at this point, right?

BEHAR: Yes, but let me ask the psychiatrist. Do you think that this salvia could affect his mental state and how severely?

DR. JULIE HOLLAND, PSYCHIATRIST: It`s a very potent hallucinogen, but it lasts, you know, peaks at two minutes. It lasts between 10, 20 minutes, not much longer. And typically, there`s no sort of long-term psychosis afterwards. However, in people with a predisposition toward psychosis, it can trigger a lasting psychosis. And he absolutely was psychotic. There`s no question.

BEHAR: And it also, could it mask the symptoms of schizophrenia?

HOLLAND: No, it would mimic more than mask.

BEHAR: Mimic, how? Tell me how?

HOLLAND: Well, you know, in schizophrenia, you -- you have basically broken with reality. You may hear voices. You believe things that other people don`t believe. You have delusions. And you know, Loughner had a total delusional framework. He thought that he was being brainwashed, that he, you know, his mind was being controlled.

BEHAR: Paranoid.

HOLLAND: He could control other people. He was absolutely paranoid. And he was disorganized. His speech was disorganized. You know, I have not examined Mr. Loughner, but it absolutely seems like he has schizophrenia. Like he has chronic paranoid schizophrenia.

BEHAR: Well, not all schizophrenics are paranoid, right?

HOLLAND: No, not all schizophrenics are paranoid. They`re not all disorganized. It`s very important to say, they are not all violent. I mean, for the most part, people with schizophrenia do not -- they`re not violent.

BEHAR: No, we see them on the streets on the Upper West Side all the time. They`re just walking around, talking to themselves. You never -- there is one guy up there, who just walks around and he`s part of the neighborhood at this point. You know, he`s ill.

OK. Now, Giffords`s husband, Mark Kelly, spoke to ABC News and he said he`d be willing to meet Loughner`s parents. And here is the quote. He said, "I don`t think it`s their fault. It`s not the parents` fault, you know. I`d like to think I`m the person that, you know, somewhat forgiving, and I mean, they`ve got to be hurting in this situation as much as anybody."

Colin, let me ask you a question. Do you think that`s a good idea? Would you have wanted to meet the parents of the Virginia Tech shooter?

COLIN GODDARD, VA TECH SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Yes, I think that the families should be available to anyone who`d like to meet with them. I mean, they are looking for answers. They want to know some sort of solace. And maybe their parents will be able to offer them something.

BEHAR: Do you think, Dr. Holland, that would help, a meeting between the victims and the parents of this schizophrenic?

HOLLAND: Well, I think, if you, you know, you want to have it be more personalized. And I mean, the Giffords need some sort of acceptance and forgiveness, and it may be easier if they can put a more personal face on Loughner. I`m really want to know -- I`d love to know more about the parents. And you know, didn`t you know your son was going crazy?

BEHAR: Well, Jean knows a little more about them. They emerged from their house yesterday for the first time. We saw them. What were they like?

CASAREZ: I think they`re just regular people. And you know, Joy, I`ve been in so many courtrooms and I always have an empathetic heart for the family of a defendant. Because they didn`t ask for this to happen. They didn`t want to be sitting in that courtroom on the side of the defendant that probably committed the crime, and I really feel bad for them. Now, this is a younger defendant, so you say, gee, maybe the parents had some responsibility that they shunned, but still...

BEHAR: Let me read their statements. Let me just read their statement. They said -- "We don`t understand why this happened. It may not make any difference, but we wish that we could change the heinous events of Saturday. We care very deeply about the victims and their families and we are so very sorry for their loss."

Colin, do you think Loughner`s parents are at all at fault for what happened?

GODDARD: That`s tough to say. You know, they are obviously very empathetic here and with the families, and wants to offer them something. You know, my mother in the film once said that she thought the worst thing that could ever happen was have your child killed, but she thinks that the worst thing that could actually ever happen is have your child kill other children and many of them.

BEHAR: Well, let me ask you more about then the Virginia Tech killer`s parents. Do you think that they were at fault at all? That`s something you`re more familiar with.

GODDARD: I believe they knew that their child, their son was troubled. That he needed help. I don`t think that they ever really addressed it with him, and unfortunately, he was able to do something very drastic, very violent before he got any help.

BEHAR: Of course, they`re not responsible for him doing this horrible thing, but is there any way to tell when a mentally ill person is violent, Dr. Holland?

HOLLAND: I just feel like everyone is responsible. You know, you read about how the kids at his school didn`t want to sit by him. When he would go into the bank, thy would put their hand on the panic button. You know, he made people nervous. People knew something was wrong with him.

BEHAR: And nobody reported anything.

HOLLAND: And he was suspended from college with basically, if you get him evaluated, then we`ll take him back. And the parents did not get him evaluated. I think there were a lot of signs that he was deeply troubled.

BEHAR: Why not?

HOLLAND: I think -- I don`t know if they were in denial. You don`t want your kid to be sick and you certainly don`t want your kid to be mentally ill. So it`s possible this was just denial. But you know, they have an obligation to their son and to the community, that if there`s something wrong with him, he needs to see a psychiatrist. He really needed evaluation and he never got it.

BEHAR: He did. (inaudible) aware, Jean, of his mental state.

CASAREZ: You know, they had to be aware. I mean, he`s young man. He was in the home with them. Right? You know, another thing, and you`re the psychologist, not me, but with Facebook and all these social networks, what these kids put on and later then culminate in the crime, the parents don`t look at the social network.

BEHAR: But what about guidance counselors? CNN reported that he was rejected by the Army.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: That`s a CNN report. We`re not sure if that was...

HOLLAND: He failed a drug test is my understanding.

BEHAR: Is that what happened?

HOLLAND: I think he was also smoking pot as well. I think he was using cannabis besides the salvia.

BEHAR: And he fought with his father. Right before the shooting, he had a big fight with his father.

HOLLAND: And his dad I think tried to -- I think people have intuition. You know when somebody`s a little off. You know when something is going on, and I think a lot of times, people ignore their intuition or they pooh-pooh it.

BEHAR: But you know what, as I said before, there are these people, in my neighborhood, walking around. Right? Am I supposed to report them? I see them.

HOLLAND: No, but if they`re dangerous...

BEHAR: I assume someone else will report them. Sometimes, they do come up to you and they`re looking for handouts and they are a little bit ominous. Am I supposed to call the cops? No one ever does.

HOLLAND: It`s a -- at Bellevue, they would bring people in, they call them EDPs, emotionally disturbed person, it was our job as psychiatrists to figure out whether somebody was dangerous or not. And you know, we don`t have crystal balls. It`s hard to know. If you have a history f violence, you`re likely to be violent. If you`re delusional and paranoid, you`re more likely to be violent. I think that, you know, this guy had a skull in his backyard. I mean, there is all -- in hindsight, and then you look at his Youtube postings, he`s clearly psychotic.

BEHAR: Right. You know, Colin, the Virginia Tech shooter also has psychiatric problems, but he still managed to buy guns and carry out the shooting. What`s your opinion on that?

GODDARD: Right, the background check system that we have in place on firearm purchases does stop hundreds and thousands and since we started doing them actually two million guns from falling into the hands of the dangerously mentally ill, felons, domestic violence abusers. But the system isn`t perfect. It`s lacking all the background check records that they need. Also, it seems that unfortunately a Google search on this kid might have been a better, you know, might have given you a better awareness of who he was.

BEHAR: There`s so many ways to look at somebody now. I mean, privacy is out the window, and yet these people are just able to get a gun willy- nilly. A shooting happened today in California in a high school where a kid brought a gun to school and it accidentally went off and shot three people. I mean, he was not intending to kill anybody, but why is this kid able to get a gun and bring it to a school? What is that about? Colin, do you know anything about that?

GODDARD: Unfortunately, you know, we don`t have home safe storage laws in this country on a federal level. The parents are not held responsible if they don`t keep their guns in their homes locked up. We also allow private sellers to sell guns to just about anyone, without background checks. So you have to remember that the guns that are falling into the hands of criminals aren`t made in the illegal market. They`re made from legal manufacturers and find their way into the illegal market somehow, and we`ve got to get a better job of stopping their transactions.

BEHAR: I think it`s out of control. I mean, what is that, the Wild West we`re back in now? I mean, people are allowed to buy one gun a month. Why do you need to buy one gun a month? You can kill people with just one gun.

HOLLAND: Or why do you need a semi-automatic or an automatic weapon if you`re shooting deer?

BEHAR: Exactly. What are we, the deer in the Israeli army, they have a Uzi?

HOLLAND: Right, the deer`s got an Uzi.

BEHAR: Thank you guys very much. We`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Remember last week when Snooki and J-Woww posted a Youtube video making fun of me for making fun of them? Well, Snooki went on the Wendy Williams show yesterday and apologized. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE POLIZZI: Obviously, Joy talks a lot about us. And we just wanted to, you know, make it silly and just, you know, just have fun with it and everyone took it too seriously, so I took the video down. You know, we feel bad about it. And I guess they talked about it on "The View." I`m a big fan of "The View" and Barbara Walters, so, you know, I`m sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: OK. So, do you think she`s sincere or she just doesn`t want to piss off Barbara Walters? Here to find out the truth about it are comedian Judy Gold. Roy Sekoff, founding editor of the Huffington Post. And Laura Bennett, designer and author of "Didn`t I Feed You Yesterday? A Mother`s Guide to Sanity in Stilettos."

OK, Roy, do you think she`s just angling to get back on "The View?" What do you think?

ROY SEKOFF, THE HUFFINGTON POST FOUNDING EDITOR: Oh, she loved Barbara`s interview with Kissinger. That was the moment where she really - - she`s (inaudible).

BEHAR: She blogged about it.

SEKOFF: I think being attacked by Snooki and J-Woww is like the political -- I mean, the cultural equivalent of like getting a Kennedy Center honor. You should be very -- it`s like, you know...

BEHAR: You know, I`m not mad at them. I don`t know who took it so seriously. It wasn`t me.

SEKOFF: Right.

BEHAR: I liked it.

(CROSSTALK)

JUDY GOLD: She`s such an idiot, she gives ignorance a bad name. OK? She -- there is something wrong with her. The fact that she actually referred to the Great Depression, that to me, I was blown away.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: I was blown away she even knew what the Great Depression was.

BEHAR: She (inaudible) that I felt bad instead of I felt badly, which is a common error that people who don`t...

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: She`s getting smarter.

SEKOFF: I`m a little nervous, though. You`re worried about the grammar?

GOLD: When did I last hear that?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Oh, that`s something else. Let`s not go there. But I give her credit for apologizing. Is she playing the Hollywood game maybe now?

LAURA BENNETT, DESIGNER: I think things are all cleared up between you two, it`s time to go to lunch, and I`m just waiting to see her guest- host on "The View" now.

BEHAR: You mean sitting at the table?

BENNETT: Yeah, absolutely, come on.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: No, no, no.

BENNETT: That`s what she`s angling for.

GOLD: The favorite part was when she said, and Joy`s a Jew.

BEHAR: I know. Like as if that`s --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You know why she says that? Because she knows that I`m Italian, and because I`m Italian, I say they`re not really Italian. Because you know, we don`t want them representing us. You know what I mean?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: So then -- I don`t know.

SEKOFF: It`s very confusing, though. She calls you a Jew. And people think she`s an Italian, but she says the Guido thing. But she`s...

(CROSSTALK)

SEKOFF: I`m very confused.

BEHAR: As we said before, the Chilean miners went back down into the mine when they found out she was Chilean.

OK, let`s move on to another topic. Just weeks after giving up his role as governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger may be making his swift return to the big screen as a kindhearted Nazi in the film "Wings of Eagle." Kindhearted Nazi, that`s such a cliche. OK.

GOLD: Speaking of Jew.

BEHAR: Now, as a former governor, do you think he should stick to something more dignified like maybe "The Househusband of Dusseldorf," something like that?

SEKOFF: I`m happy about this, because I`m not sure who`s producing the film, but I know who`s not putting up the money -- the state of California. Arnold left it with billions of dollars worth of debt. So he`s safer on a movie set, because if he screws up on a movie set, he just upsets the critics. He doesn`t have to then let 10,000 nurses go. You know? Or 100,000 students can`t afford their college education. So better on the movie set.

BEHAR: Did he screw up California? Do you think?

SEKOFF: Well, I live in Los Angeles, so the answer would be yes. Yes.

GOLD: Wasn`t he playing a sympathetic Nazi as governor of California?

BEHAR: No, no, no.

GOLD: Sorry.

BEHAR: But I mean, do you think he`s still box office draw? I mean, really, I don`t know of anybody who is going to pay him anymore.

SEKOFF: Well, this is such a strange movie, you know. You know, the Nazis order him to kill some American prisoners and children, but he won`t do it, and then he takes the kids and tries to save them. It sort of sounds like "Kindergarten Cop" set in the Third Reich. So I don`t know if it`s big box office.

GOLD: And you know who was up for the part as well?

BEHAR: Who?

GOLD: Mel Gibson. But he couldn`t do the sympathetic part.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: He couldn`t do the sympathetic part? OK. He said he lost $200 million in potential grosses, you know, money, box office money, because he served two terms as your governor. And do you appreciate it? No.

SEKOFF: No, I don`t. It`s very sad, yes. I was missing "Terminator 7" and "Kindergarten Cop 3" and "Predator 17." And the movie oeuvre is going to be (inaudible).

BEHAR: But do you believe that, Laura? That he actually lost that kind of money? I mean, that`s a lot of money, $200 million?

BENNETT: No, I probably do believe it, and I think that the political career, you make so much less money, but this is definitely the sign that the politics thing didn`t work out.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: OK. We`ll be back with more pop culture in just a minute. We have two segments now because we`re at 10:00.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with my pop culture panel. Octomom Nadya Suleman is reportedly starring in a new fetish video for sale, in which she wears a black corset while whipping a grown man in a baby diaper and bonnet. Now, I`ve heard of a diaper fetish before, but the bonnet is fantastic. OK, I mean, that is really over the top. What do you say to this?

GOLD: And you know what? She sleeps with eight guys in it. Because she`s the octomom.

(CROSSTALK)

SEKOFF: She`s the Octodom!

(CROSSTALK)

SEKOFF: You know, Joy, on a lot of movies, the actresses get to keep their costumes, so I hope she got to keep the diaper. For all the kids.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: She provided the diaper actually.

BEHAR: She actually -- I understand -- we`re don`t have a video of it yet.

SEKOFF: Not yet.

BEHAR: She is trying to sell it.

SEKOFF: The Vivid (ph). Yes, the company.

GOLD: And they shot it at her house. I mean, who is babysitting those kids?

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: All right, I`ll be right out!

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: It was shot in her house. Now, what do you think, did you think the kids were home?

GOLD: Yes, where are they going to go?

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: I have to drop 14 kids off at your house?

SEKOFF: There is a serious angle to this in the fact that the producer approached her because she was going to be evicted from her house, and this was a way to pay for it. And you know there are going to be three million foreclosures in America this year. So if this catches on as a way to save your house, the market (ph) is going to be glutted with baby- whipping diaper porn dominatrix movies.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: She makes money.

(CROSSTALK)

BENNETT: I have a lot of kids, and no one has ever offered to pay my mortgage.

(CROSSTALK)

BENNETT: And it`s important because I have six kids, which would make me sexto-mom, which sounds much better for a porno.

BEHAR: Have you thought of putting (inaudible)? Put your husband in a baby (inaudible)?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Now, they have offered her big bucks to make a porn flick in the past, and she`s turned that down because it was beneath her, she said. Porn is demeaning to women. Do you think this one elevates her?

SEKOFF: I think her life was actually sort of pornographic beforehand. You know, it`s so voyeuristic and exhibitionistic. I mean, so what, to add a little whipping and a little diaper. For her, it`s moving up.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Everyone is so sad this month.

GOLD: She gets to say to her kids, I had to star in a porn movie for you! My mother said that to me all the time when I was growing up.

BEHAR: I met your mother. I doubt that.

All right, speaking of mothers, Amy Chua is creating quite a stir with a strict Chinese parenting method she detailed in her controversial new book, "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother." Let me just tell you a couple of techniques in it. No sleepovers or playdates, ever. And no wire hangers either, I guess. No TV or video games ever. Grueling rote academics, OK. Hours of piano and violin practice. OK. Uses slurs against the children like lazy and my favorite, garbage. Come here, garbage. Threatens to burn stuffed animals or give away favorite toys. That`s over the top. I`m sorry.

What, is she preparing -- is she preparing them for life or Abu Ghraib? That`s my question.

GOLD: Waterboarding is actually on the list as well.

(CROSSTALK)

SEKOFF: That was only if they brought home a B, though. An A minus, you get to avoid that.

Here`s the thing. I hope this book sincerely becomes a bestseller so she can afford to pay for the therapy that the kids are going to need.

BEHAR: They will be very smart. The smartest kids in the psychiatric ward.

SEKOFF: And trouble.

GOLD: We need her because my kids need someone to cheat off of, you know.

BEHAR: Roy, which would you rather have, a tiger mother or a mama grizzly?

SEKOFF: Neither of them is that great of a choice at the moment. You made me nervous. I think I will be a motherless child on that one, on that vote.

BEHAR: It`s just ridiculous for her to think that this is the only way to achieve. Are we to assume that Yo-Yo Ma, for example, has never had a playdate?

(CROSSTALK)

SEKOFF: Never had a playdate.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: They are not allowed to be in the school play. And what if one of the kids is gay and you say to the kid, you are not allowed to be in the school play?

(CROSSTALK)

BENNETT: I prepared an article for the Daily Beast and they were really surprised when I actually agreed with some of her parenting methods. Because you know what, the world is not a warm and fuzzy place. It`s crowded. There are tons of kids applying for places, and you have to stand out. You have to stand out. You have to be great at something, you have to excel. But you have to love it. That`s the element that she leaves out. She doesn`t let the children decide what they are going to love to do and want to spend three hours doing.

SEKOFF: If she would throw -- apparently, according to the excerpts, she would throw the hand-made birthday cards back in their face because the penmanship was not good enough.

BEHAR: Well, that I understand.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: But I mean, is this going to hurt? The Chinese mothers have this bad reputation as it is sometimes. Does this make it even worse or not?

BENNETT: Well, you know, she comes from an immigrant family, and she made it all the way to Yale. And I think this is her way of teaching her kids that this is how you excel. This is what you need to do and this is what it takes. And there is an element of that that is true.

SEKOFF: But I think what you said, there has to be love. I mean, we have seen this before with like, the football player Todd Marinovich. His dad was a football coach and when the kid was born, he put a football in the crib, and he trained him and he trained him, and he actually became an NFL quarterback, and then a junkie. You know what I mean? You can only push it so far. So it seems like you are going to get there, you`re dancing as fast as you can, and then you fall apart.

GOLD: But he was a really good junkie.

SEKOFF: Great honor. Right.

(CROSSTALK)

BENNETT: You need to help your kids find what they love to do, and then push them to excel.

BEHAR: And then call them garbage.

If you`re in New York, catch Judy Gold appearing in "Love, Loss and What I Wore." I did that one too for a week. Through February 13th. Good night, everybody. No, I had fun that week. I think it was just one day, actually.

END