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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Sexual Abuse Charges; Michael Jackson's Doctor Guilty; Interview with Erin Brockovich
Aired November 7, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, HOST: Thanks, John. We're on the "Front Line" in California tonight. Conrad Murray found guilty in the death of singer Michael Jackson. Was justice actually served?
And then we still can't resist Silvio Berlusconi, his critics demanding his resignation. Not the first time but he's tough as nails.
And the "Bottom Line" on Herman Cain; a fourth woman came forward this afternoon publicly with graphic detail on what she claims he did.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
I'm Erin Burnett. Welcome to Monday. OUTFRONT tonight, a Herman Cain accuser speaks. She's the fourth woman to accuse the GOP front runner of sexual harassment but the first to give very specific details and her name, which is Sharon Bialek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON BIALEK, CLAIMS CAIN INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCHED HER: He put his hand on my leg, under my skirt and reached for my genitals. He also grabbed my head and brought it towards his crotch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We told you it was graphic. Well I got an e-mail from Cain campaign before she even finished talking saying quote, "all allegations of harassment against Mr. Cain are completely false. Mr. Cain never harassed anyone." All right, David Gergen is CNN senior political analyst. David Frum is CNN contributor, former speechwriter for George W. Bush. Jeffrey Toobin is senior legal analyst and James Carville, CNN contributor and Democratic strategist. Wow, you hooked up fast there, Mr. Carville. I didn't know if we were going to get him in time. All right, thank you, I wanted to start with you. Did you find her credible?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You know, it doesn't matter if I found her credible or not. It's just -- this was a man who is never going to be a nominee and now he's never, never going to be the Republican nominee and everybody is saying well when -- now it's the fourth one. When is the fifth one coming? And this thing is endless and it -- you know it's -- I don't know whether she's credible or not. That's not up to me to judge. And you know I'm not going to vote for him any way, but this is just too much and the Republicans are going to back off on him and this is going to really hurt.
BURNETT: All right, I had feeling you weren't going to vote for him, but thank you for clarifying that.
CARVILLE: All right.
BURNETT: All right Jeffrey Toobin let me ask you this question though because what she's alleging would appear to be different from harassment, correct?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well it's both harassment and potentially assault. I mean when you start pushing someone's head around, I mean that really can count as a sexual assault if that's what happened.
BURNETT: All right. Let me ask you David Frum though about something that James Carville just said. He said -- was talking about how he's not going to be the nominee. Now we have a poll that just came out within the past half hour that still has him in a dead heat with Mitt Romney. I want to note it was taken before this afternoon's revelations, but we also have 54 percent of conservatives saying they're not concerned about any allegations of sexual harassment. Would you count him out, Mr. Frum?
DAVID FRUM, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well this is a big problem of follower-ship that the Republican Party has. Herman Cain had never had any business running for president. Just this past weekend he did a debate with Newt Gingrich where he was asked about the existing -- asked a question on the existing structure of Medicaid. He just completely drew a -- Medicare rather -- he drew a complete blank.
It says something troubling about the party that the candidates who might -- who ought to be the candidates, the governors, the senators are not the candidates and the one front runner who has the traditional background, Mitt Romney, is so mistrusted and disliked by Republicans and meanwhile they keep flitting from people who are bound to have trouble in their baggage because they have not gone through the political process. They haven't been elected governor. They haven't been elected mayor.
They come out on the basis of a speech in a campaign ad. And I hope that this is one of those incidents that blast some sense into the party. Whatever happens in this particular case, whatever the truth is to say you want presidential people -- presidential candidates who are presidential material.
BURNETT: All right, there's a follow up on that I want to go to James Carville with, but David Gergen, first let me ask you this. If there's a way Herman Cain can get out of this. Let's listen to one other thing that she said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIALEK: I want you, Mr. Cain, to come clean, just admit what you did. Admit you were inappropriate to people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Can he get through this, David Gergen?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think so. He could have had he gone and got all the facts out in the open early on with the earlier women and gotten everything, all the facts out, just sort of said look, I made some mistakes. I didn't think I was being inappropriate but it is what it is. Instead we've had this pattern of just denying everything.
And the issue is not just, Erin, whether he's a skirt chaser. You know people can make up their own minds about whether that's a disqualification for the presidency. We've certainly had a lot of presidents who did. But I think the issue becomes one of trust. Can you now trust him to tell you the truth as a citizen in a time of crisis?
Because that quality of trust is so important to govern and to lead a country and you know there's just this accumulation now of stories that make it really sort of -- you almost have to suspend judgment to believe that none of this happened. And I just think most Americans are going to listen to it and say, you know, I just don't think he's being straight with us.
BURNETT: James Carville, now let me ask you this. Of course we're all bringing to mind your former boss, Bill Clinton, a man who was a skirt chaser in the White House, a man with Monica Lewinsky. You said your life as his adviser changed when you got that phone call. He lied and then came clean and people still love him.
CARVILLE: Well, one thing is because people saw an underlying talent in Bill Clinton and they wanted him to be their leader. We went through this in '92. We went through it again in '98 and now I think I'm safe in saying he's probably the most popular political person on earth now. But there's a little bit difference between Bill Clinton and Herman Cain.
I mean and I don't mean to be -- to gloat about my boss, but you can't get them out in the same breath. And the other thing is, is you know Herman Cain is not demonstrating the sort of political skill that Bill Clinton had and there's no history in the Republican Party nominating anybody like Herman Cain ever and they weren't going to do it from the get-go and the only interesting question now I think is that if Mitt Romney can't climb above 25 percent after this, then you got to really wonder about the whole thing because everything is falling his way so far.
BURNETT: I want to ask you about other candidates but let me ask you first, Jeff Toobin, this is -- this was a woman -- the fourth woman. The first woman as we know has said she's done with this and we're not going to hear anymore, but there are two others. Are we going to hear from them now that this precedent has been set by Mr. Bialek?
TOOBIN: Probably not. They have made decisions that they don't want to be public people. And I don't see any reason why this would change their minds. I mean they probably feel good. I know that one of their lawyers, Joel Bennett, has said well this corroborates my client but she doesn't want to come forward. So I don't think we're going to hear more.
BURNETT: All right, David Frum, let me ask you this whole issue of dissatisfaction. Is it too late? You know a month or six weeks ago people were saying well if we didn't have a candidate by the spring, we could pull the not totally unprecedented thing where you end up with a Republican candidate sort of a dark horse who gets drafted at the last minute. But that was theoretically Chris Christie and he's now endorsed Mitt Romney, so this is the field, right?
FRUM: Right. Well the next thing people will be talking about a brokered convention, which people always like to talk about.
FRUM: This is the field. This is the field. This has always been the field. It was -- it's an enormous undertaking to run for president. It's not something to be done lightly. And although Herman Cain is kind of an offbeat candidate, even if he were a more serious candidate, you see here the problems that happen when you begin to run at the last minute. This is the field.
And Republicans need either to make their peace with it or to understand and I think this is the real question, why was it that the Tea Party movement which has announced itself as being so important to the regeneration of the Republican Party has not been able to come up with credible presidential candidates. They have flitted from one person after another who was severely flawed in ways that make even the sitting governor of Texas you might think ought to be a credible candidate an incredible candidate.
BURNETT: All right. Well gentlemen, thanks very much to all four of you. We appreciate it. It's interesting. A lot of it comes down to (INAUDIBLE) conflation of social issues with some of these fiscal issues. We're going to keep talking about this.
But up next, Conrad Murray found guilty of involuntary manslaughter at the Michael Jackson death trial. How much time is he actually going to serve in jail? We'll talk to someone who knew him for 25 years and the Penn State sex scandal. Authorities say two school officials lied to the grand jury investigating the allegations of sexual abuse among young boys.
And the new Italian stallion -- he's new -- Silvio Berlusconi. You know we can't resist him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant Conrad Robert Murray guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Guilty. That's the verdict in the case against Dr. Conrad Murray. After more than 10 hours of deliberating the jury says Michael Jackson's physician was responsible for causing his death. Now Dr. Murray faces up to four years in prison on the count of involuntary manslaughter, but he's not going to be sentenced until November 29th. Ted Rowlands has been in the courtroom every day. He was there when the verdict was read. And Ted, let me ask you what was the scene like at that time, sort of sounded like her voice broke a little bit. And what's it like now?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, the court clerk, Ms. Benson (ph), who swears in all the witnesses, was obviously nervous knowing that the world was watching her. Outside the courthouse of course there were hundreds of people. It has died down, the crowds have at this hour. But a lot of reaction mainly pro-Jackson folks, Jackson fans, people who were supporting the family were outside the courthouse. Inside the courthouse and inside that courtroom it was extremely dramatic as you might imagine.
ROWLANDS: You had Murray's family to one side, the Jacksons on the other you could hear a pin drop before Ms. Benson (ph) gave the verdict.
BURNETT: So what happens now in terms of the sentence? I know you have been reporting all the way through that while he might get up to four years because of the situation in California jails, he may not end up serving any. Do you have any sense of that and also what about an appeal?
ROWLANDS: Oh he'll serve some time and there will definitely be an appeal. What he may not serve is time in the state penitentiary. He'll probably end up serving, assuming he's sentenced to four years in prison which most people think is the likely sentence here; he'll probably serve it in a county jail because of the overcrowding situation in the state of California. He's a nonviolent prisoner so there would be no reason why he couldn't take advantage of the -- basically the new way of conducting business in the state and that is to have a nonviolent short-term prisoner serve it in a county jail rather than going to the pen and I do think they'll file an appeal fairly quickly.
BURNETT: All right. Well thank you very much, Ted. And the guilty verdict was welcome news to Michael Jackson's family. Right before the show I spoke to longtime Jackson family friend Brian Oxman. He told me how he and the Jacksons were feeling about the verdict.
BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: Oh, Erin, I think the overwhelming feeling is one of being empty. I just cannot really describe the feeling. There's no sense of vindication. There's no sense of justice having been done. It's empty. The fact is Conrad Murray is guilty, yes, we know that. But we are still without Michael Jackson and his kids are without their dad and that leaves me empty.
BURNETT: How are the kids doing? I know you have talked to them through this. Michael Jackson's children, how are they doing?
OXMAN: I did speak to Mr. Jackson this morning and to Randy Jackson, and they were very apprehensive about the verdict. I know that the children, Prince, Paris and Prince Michael, who we call Blanket, have really been -- they tried to be sheltered but you can't shelter those children from the biggest news story that there is. They know what's happening. They know that they don't have their father and they knew that this was judgment day and it left them I think wondering what's it all about.
BURNETT: And the children, obviously we've been showing some pictures. There have been a lot of pictures of them lately. They've always been smiling. They seem a lot more accustomed to the public eye. Do you think we'll be seeing more of them?
OXMAN: I think we'll see a lot of them because they were Michael Jackson's greatest work. People say gee, you know these kids turned out so nice. They're kind of interesting. They're well spoken. They're very smart, sharp children. How could that possibly be? Well because that was Michael's job in his life as he saw it. This was his most important project. It was his greatest work. And for the public to look at them and say, gee, how did that happen? Those of us who knew Michael who knew what importance his kids were, we say but of course it had to be.
BURNETT: And I want to ask you though about this. Conrad Murray, so he receives a guilty verdict. But by virtually all accounts, Michael Jackson had a problem. He had an addiction problem with drugs. Do you feel that family friends like you or people in the family were also part of how this came to such a sad ending with people enabling his addiction?
OXMAN: Any time you have someone who is experiencing this kind of usage of medications, you have both a sense that they have to be individually responsible and of course they can be and they should be, but the people who are around Michael, who demanded that the doctor be hired, who paid this doctor $150,000 a month, Michael didn't do that. That was done by the concert promoters. They bear a responsibility here. It's as if this were the horse trainer who said get that horse out on the racetrack and I don't care what you have to do. That's what happened here with Michael Jackson and the people who were around him have not born the responsibility which they deserve.
BURNETT: So you think there are other people to blame other than Conrad Murray, but you wouldn't put the family in that group even though Randy has talked before about how he regrets some of the enabling he did.
OXMAN: Oh, Randy tried so many times to get his brother to get rid of all of these people who were supplying him with these kinds of medications. He tried and he tried. And let me tell you something. This is a family that was responsible for Michael Jackson; responsible to him, but when you have the kind of money floating around, what do you say to a man who is a billionaire? You cannot alter his opinion. You cannot alter what he does. And that's just the plain facts of the matter.
BURNETT: Do you feel some sympathy then for Dr. Murray who -- at all do you feel sympathy for him?
OXMAN: I feel sorry for Dr. Murray. I don't think he wanted to hurt Michael Jackson. I don't think he had malice in his heart at all. But what happened is he got around Michael. He lost his ethics. He lost his sanity and he did things which were absolutely reckless and irresponsible. So yes, I feel sorry for him, but I say, you know something, what's right is right. And he did not do right by Michael Jackson.
BURNETT: Brian Oxman, thanks so much.
OXMAN: You got it.
BURNETT: Well scandal is rocking the legendary football program at Penn State. This story is disturbing. Two high ranking officials, the former Director of Athletics, Tim Curley and the former Senior VP for Finance and Business, Gary Schultz, resigned and faced arraignment on charges that they lied to a grand jury which was investigating allegations of sexual abuse against this man, former Defensive Coordinator Jerry Sandusky who has been charged with sexually abusing 8-year-old boys over a 15-year period.
Earlier I spoke with CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll and asked him about how the officials may have resigned but really how is it possible to defend the fact that they covered this up for so long?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well so many questions in this and what was so incredible being out here today after the attorney general, Erin, gave her press conference was to listen to Curley's and to listen to the attorneys how they came out in such defense and they were so passionate basically saying if the attorney general wanted to have a fight on her hands, Erin, that they indeed will have a fight on their hands simply because they say that their clients are innocent. And in fact she said that to charge someone with perjury is a charge of last resort. This is how the attorneys are coming out and fighting some of these allegations.
BURNETT: And the legendary coach, Joe Paterno, obviously his name has been swirling around as well. Apparently he was told there was a problem, but he says hey, I didn't know the extent of the allegations and he did report it to one of his superiors, one of the guys who resigned today, so I'm wondering is Paterno going to be pursued as well by authorities.
CARROLL: I think that's why a lot of people were coming out to the press conference with the attorney general today because we wanted to hear whether or not Paterno would be facing any charges and it's not the case. Because in the eyes of the law and I know a lot of people are going to have a -- probably going to have a problem with this, but in the eyes of the law, they say Paterno did what he needed to do. He spoke to his immediate supervisor when that allegation of sexual abuse came to his desk. Now, I mean there's a big question about legally did he do the right thing and morally did he do the right thing and I think morally that's a different situation.
BURNETT: All right now just to make sure that I said that correctly. There were eight boys that were apparently abused between the ages of 8 and 15 and Jason was telling me earlier that he thinks more will come forward.
All right well more details on the Herman Cain sexual harassment claims coming up and we're going to talk about what it really will mean to his campaign. An amazing poll out in the past hour and then international terrorist Carlos the Jackal is in court for the four bombings that took place in Paris nearly 30 years ago. Yes he's alive the Jackal, and the latest on Silvio Berlusconi. He refuses to stop and we cannot resist watching.
BURNETT: And now a story we can't resist. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi refusing to resign even though his critics say he no longer commands the support to pass the reforms needed for Italy to avoid financial Armageddon. Now analysts are deeply and rightly worried that unlike the three countries that Europe may be bailing out, Greece, Ireland and Portugal, Italy is too big to rescue. It is. But the part of the story we can't resist isn't that. It's that people think he's actually going to quit because that is not the Silvio Berlusconi we know on this show.
This is a guy who has been accused of sleeping with an underage prostitute, been convicted on charges of fraud and corruption and yet he keeps getting up. He's like the Rocky Balboa of politicians and we're glad. Because as bad as he may be for Italy, he is great for our we can't resist segment and so to encourage him to keep getting up every day when people like us knock him down, we can't resist showing you and him this inspirational clip from the 2006 movie "Rocky Balboa".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you say to the kid? It ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit. You keep moving forward, how much you'll take, and keep moving forward.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Rocky, Rocky, Rocky --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get Up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Get him!
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Rocky, Rocky, Rocky -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rocky, Rocky, Rocky, Rocky --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rocky, Rocky --
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Rocky, Rocky, Rocky, Rocky --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We just couldn't resist. Keep fighting, Silvio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Still OUTFRONT, the "OutFront 5".
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He put his hand on my leg under my skirt.
BURNETT: Taking aim at Cain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just admit what you did. Admit you were inappropriate to people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every Greek person needs psychological help.
BURNETT: Greek fiasco.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They plan their future a certain way and now everything changes.
BURNETT: Erin's new cause.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before you come back here with another lame ass offer, I want you to think real hard about what your spine is worth.
BURNETT: All this OUTFRONT in our second half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We start the second half of our show with stories we care about, we focus on our own reporting, do the work, and find the OUTFRONT 5.
First, there are still nearly 50,000 customers in Connecticut without power nine days after that freak October snowstorm. And for some, the power isn't going to be coming back for days. OUTFRONT has learned Connecticut Light & Power expects 50 towns to be without power until Wednesday.
Number two, as European Union pressures Greece to make drastic spending cuts, there's one area that is apparently not on the chopping block, defense. Andrew Feinstein who wrote a book on arms trading told OUTFRONT that France and Germany -- the most powerful members of the E.U. -- are biggest suppliers of weapons to Greece, along with the United States. Maybe that's why all three countries supported a bailout with no defense cuts.
Number three, the Internet briefly went out today to millions of people around the world. We learned a software glitch crashed the router at Juniper network, a company that makes router hardware for large networks. Now, the ripple effect created blackouts across the world and also knocked BlackBerry service offline.
The good news, everything is back to normal. My beloved was fine all day. She -- I'm going to give her a gender. She was fine.
All right. Number four: consumer credit in September rising by more than expected, $7.4 billion. And that nearly erased August's $9.6 billion drop. The data is important because it tracks how much money consumers are borrowing. Economists we spoke to said the rise was likely due to an increase in auto loans which is not necessarily bad if you got the credit and desire to make a big purchase like that. Credit card debt fell for the third month in a row.
OK. Well, it's been 94 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back?
By the way, we're not the only ones worried about our credit rating. France unveiling its second austerity budget in three months today in an attempt to keep its triple A rating. Yes, as former colleague Mark Haines would say with a big eye roll, really? France has AAA, yes, and we don't.
OK. The political bombshell today for Herman Cain, a woman who accused Cain of sexual harassment came forward with explosive allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON BIALEK, CLAIMS CAIN INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCHED HER: He put his hand on my leg, under my skirt, and reached for my genitals. He also grabbed my head and brought it towards his crotch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Cain denies any inappropriate behavior. His campaign put out this statement. Quote, "All allegations against Mr. Cain are completely false. Mr. Cain has never harassed anyone."
Well, joining us now to talk about these salacious charges, John Avlon, a senior columnist for "Newsweek" and "The Daily Beast"; Paul Callan, legal contributor; and Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst.
OK. Great to have all three of you with us.
We've talked a lot about the veracity of this. She seemed to be a very credible and calm woman.
But, Gloria, I want to ask you this -- and yes, you're the woman here and that's why I'm asking you. One thing stood out to me because she did seem to be very authentic about what she was saying. When this happened, she had a boyfriend of four years and a mentor, and she did not tell them or anyone else any of the details.
Is that unusual? Does that in your view affect this or not?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's my understanding, though, that she's got statements from them corroborating that they knew that something had occurred at the time.
BORGER: So, I think whether she shared every detail could be kind of embarrassing and maybe you don't want to do that. But I think the fact that she has these corroborating statements is very important.
Also very important is the fact that the lawyer for the first accuser who came out on Friday said that what this woman said today corroborates what his client has told him.
So, I think you're reaching a critical mass here and the Republicans that I talked to, including conservatives in the important state of Iowa, are saying he's got to come out front and address these charges.
BURNETT: And you talked to those people -- you talked to those people in Iowa today, right, Gloria?
BORGER: Yes, absolutely. Just like within an hour and one, Bob Vanderflast, who is a leading Republican activist there, said to me, this is a test of his leadership and it is a tipping point for his campaign.
And one more thing, our own Bill Bennett, who's a very respected conservative Republican, has written a piece that's going up on CNN.com in which he says if Herman Cain cannot stand up to these charges, if he refuses to, he should step out of the race.
BURNETT: Legally, Paul, what happens from here? What can happen from here?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: He does have to stand up to these charges. I mean, and I think if you isolate them and look at them one by one, he can fight them off.
Charge number one, there was a confidentiality agreement, National Restaurant Association releases the woman. She refuses to make a public statement. He had denied that anything went wrong there.
Charge number two, that woman has never publicly stated what the charge is. Cain says it never happened. Woman number three, anonymous charge. We can't look at that.
And now, this one, the last one, she hires Gloria Allred who, you know, has a rogue gallery of women who just look for publicity in these cases. A couple of Gloria's recent cases, Ginger -- what was her name? Ginger Lee, porn star, offended by Anthony Weiner, texting her.
Yes. But my favorite was the New York case. Remember the banker who said she was fired for being too attractive and appeared at a press conference with a low cut --
BURNETT: Yes. Citigroup, right?
CALLAN: Yes, Lorenzana was her name.
So, I don't know. The fact that Gloria Allred is representing her, I don't know if that adds credibility. And why did she wait 14 years? I'm sorry. Now, we can go to the politics.
BURNETT: She does have a lot of very serious women in cases in her history.
CALLAN: I could defend each of these cases if he hires me. Now, politics is another matter. Maybe he's finished politically. But I can win these cases.
BURNETT: I want to get to Gloria -- you were jumping in. Go ahead.
BORGER: Well, no, I'm just saying. Just because she hired Gloria Allred doesn't mean that she's not telling the truth.
BURNETT: Now, let's talk about the politics on that one because a poll came out which granted was taken before today's coming out by Ms. Bialek. But tied still.
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, and this is what's extraordinary. I mean, what this shows, his support is eroding but it is not imploding. In fact, his overall numbers, the same as it was a month ago before all these allegations started to swirl, granted again before today's press conference.
But here's some important data to keep in mind. First of all, 54 percent of Republican primary voters say they are not concerned at all about the charges. That's incredibly significant. You're seeing a rally around the flag effect where people are saying, look, the media is beating up on Herman Cain. I don't believe it. In fact, he's raised $2 million in the last two weeks. That's significant.
Also, even though his negatives are up dramatically, which is understandable, his somewhat positive rating actually jumped significantly to 32 from 24. So, again, you are seeing support for Herman Cain solidify in part because of these attacks.
Now, whether this press conference will be a tipping point, that's going to be an interesting challenge.
BURNETT: Do you see a gender breakdown there?
AVLON: Yes, we are seeing some gender breakdown. This poll wasn't broken out fully into gender. You are also seeing an age breakdown. So, you are some fishers in his support. But overall right now, you are seeing this fascinating rally around the flag effect which is part of this political cycle.
BURNETT: How does it, young, for or against?
AVLON: Young people are saying maybe we got doubts and older voters are sticking with Herman.
BORGER: Erin, you know, Herman Cain was never particularly popular with women voters to begin with in the Republican Party. Overall, tonight's NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll shows that his negative ratings have tripled in one month.
Republican women are very, very important chunk of the primary electorate for the party so you'll have to see where women come down on this. And again, he's got to start talking about these specific allegations, particularly since a woman put herself on the line today with it. I don't see how he continues his campaign without addressing this charge specifically.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks to all of you. And we'll keep talking about this. Interesting aside, viewers curious what you all think and let us know on our Facebook page.
Sharon Bialek is a woman today is not only a Republican but a self-identified member of the Tea Party.
Right now, let's check in with Anderson Cooper.
What do you have, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": We're following a lot of the stories.
More on Dr. Conrad Murray found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Michael Jackson's death. Tonight, what is next for Michael Jackson's personal physician? All the angles.
Randi Kaye was in the courthouse. We'll talk to her.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes us into the E.R. to show us the power of the anesthetic used by Jackson, Propofol. Our legal panel, former Los Angeles deputy district attorney, Marcia Clark, criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos, and Jeff Toobin as well.
Also tonight, the story you were just talking about of a very raw politics. A fourth woman going public with accusations of sexual harassment against Herman Cain. This time there are details. There's a face to this.
You'll hear from the alleged victim herself. Herman Cain's accuser in her own words.
Those stories and tonight's "Ridiculist," Erin, at the top of the hour.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks so much, Anderson.
We've got more from the Conrad Murray verdict, and a look at what really led to his conviction.
And international terrorist Carlos the Jackal standing trial for four deadly bombings which took place in Paris nearly three decades ago.
BURNETT: We do this at the same time every time, our "Outer Circle," where we reach out to sources around the world.
And we begin in Greece tonight where financial turmoil has forced the prime minister to step down. It's complicated but important.
Diana Magnay is in Athens tonight.
Diana, here's the bottom line. Who's going to run Greece?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, this country will have a new government and I hoped by now to give you the name of the new leader, but it seems that's going to take a little bit more time. Now, the main purpose of this new interim government is to try to push through terms of bailout struck with European lenders two weeks ago. And that will come as some reassurance to Euro zone leaders. But for the people of this country, it means more cuts to come, and that means tens of thousands of job cuts in the public sector, salary and pension cuts across the board, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you.
Well, in Syria, activists say the government killed nearly two dozen protesters while still more army defectors cross over to the opposition.
Arwa Damon is in Beirut, Lebanon, tonight.
And, Arwa, how much of a threat are these defections actually?
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, the exact number is unknown but the commander of the free Syrian army says that his troops number in the thousands. Not quite a level that is going to pose any sort of significant threat to the Syrian security forces or the regime, but there have been a growing clashes between them and between the Syrian security forces especially in flash point cities like that of Homs, which is why activists say we've been seeing such an intense crackdown in these particular areas -- Erin.
BURNETT: Arwa, thank you.
And in Paris today, the notorious convicted murderer Carlos the Jackal went on trial again, this time for four deadly bombings which took place in Paris nearly 30 years ago.
CNN's Atika Shubert is covering the story from London.
Atika, why so long and what was Carlos the Jackal like in court today?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, he was in a fighting mood. When asked for his occupation, he answered professional revolutionary. His real name, of course, is Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, also known as Carlos the Jackal. And as you'll recall, he was legendary among revolutionary movements in the '70s, particularly with the Palestinian cause.
Now, he maintains his innocence in this case and one of the reasons it took so long to get this case to trial was that prosecutors had to go through decades of secret service files to actually get evidence, Erin.
BURNETT: It's amazing.
OK. Now, it's a guilty verdict in the case against Conrad Murray.
PROSECUTOR DAVID WALGREN: It was Dr. Murray's repeated incompetent and unskilled acts that led to Mr. Jackson's death on June 25th, 2009.
DEFENSE ATTORNEY ED CHERNOFF: Michael Jackson self-administered a dose of Propofol, that with the Lorazepam killed him instantly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you asked to call 911?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Conrad Murray ever mention the word Propofol to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He reached out to me and said, here, put these in a bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you monitor a patient, you never leave their side. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have never had a doctor that was more caring.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you think it was a self-injection of Propofol that did it?
DR. PAUL WHITE, DEFENSE MEDICAL EXPERT: In my opinion, yes.
WALGREN: It could also be a lie, correct?
WHITE: If you say so, I guess, yes.
WALGREN: Conrad Murray caused the death of Michael Jackson. Abandoned Michael Jackson.
CROWD: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a crime to be proven, prosecution has to show that Dr. Murray actually killed Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice demands a guilty verdict.
COURT CLERK: We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty.
BURNETT: Twenty-three days of testimony, 49 witnesses, and more than 10 hours of deliberations for a jury to find Conrad Murray responsible for the death of Michael Jackson.
And he faces up for four years in prison. He's being held without bail until sentencing on November 29th.
Shepard Kopp defended Michael Jackson on child molestation charges. He has been following this case and joins us tonight from Los Angeles.
Shepard, thanks for being with us.
Let me just start by asking you: were you surprised at all by this verdict?
SHEPARD KOPP, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: Not at all. Although I think the defense did everything that they could, Dr. Murray himself dealt them a bad hand, and they played it the best way they could.
BURNETT: I know you say that. But you also were interested in the fact that the defense didn't pursue some things. Prosecution tried to say, look, this guy is a drug addict but a great father -- a great father but a guy who had child molestation charges a few years ago.
Did the defense not take advantage of those inconsistencies? KOPP: Well, that was one of the things that struck me in the prosecution closing argument -- I think it was clearly objectionable for the D.A. to get up there and talk about the fact that Michael Jackson's children would not have a father for the rest of their lives. The defense made a tactical decision not to object to that. I think it was clearly objectionable and then tried to come back in their argument and say, look, they are appealing to your passion and prejudice because they don't have the facts. The problem was they had the facts.
BURNETT: Bail was denied. Were you surprised? It was $75,000. Is Dr. Murray a flight risk? Would you proceed in that one?
KOPP: I don't think he's a -- I don't think he's a flight risk. I think this was really a function of having cameras in the courtroom and a mob outside of the courthouse. The judge made a finding that Dr. Murray poses a substantial risk if he's released on bail pending sentencing.
Why? What's he going to do? Run around with an injection of Propofol, giving it randomly to somebody? He's clearly not going to be a danger.
BURNETT: Right. Right. I was wondering if you were going to say that.
Let me ask you this, though, since you represented him back in 2003 to 2005. Obviously, I'm talking about Michael Jackson. His guilt or innocence on child molestation is still a topic of passionate debate in this country and around the world.
What can you tell us about what really happened?
KOPP: Well, I can't reveal any attorney/client communications or work product, obviously. I mean, I think all the facts were on display during that trial, and it was not a very friendly environment, and yet those jurors in Santa Barbara County acquitted him. I think it was largely due to the fact that the prosecution witnesses in that case just weren't believable.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Sheppard, thanks very much for being with us tonight. We appreciate it.
All right. Coming up environmental crusader Erin Brockovich comes out front to talk about the nuclear threat in this country. She's OUTFRONT next.
BURNETT: In 1993, despite a lack of formal law school education, Erin Brockovich was instrumental in constructing a case against a company that poisoned the water supply of Hinckley, California. Now, the film that tells that story and shares her name brought her to the world's attention and won Julia Roberts an Oscar.
Now, Erin runs her own consulting firm. And she has written a fictional thriller about nuclear energy entitled "Hot Water."
All right. Well, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it.
ERIN BROCKOVICH, ENVIRONMENTAL CRUSADER: Thanks for having me.
BURNETT: OK. Let me start with asking you that your thriller takes place in the South. And it kind of got me thinking a lot of people don't realize how many -- we get 15 percent to 20 percent of our power in this country from nuclear. South has a lot of nuclear power plants.
And in researching this, you came up with some truly terrifying scenarios that the experts hadn't even thought of but subsequent to this research said, no, this is real.
BURNETT: Like, can you tell me about one?
BROCKOVICH: Well, you know, I mean, if you're talking about a book or a facility down there and we've taken so much about nuclear power --
BROCKOVICH: I don't want to say for granted, but we've become very complacent about what's going on out there. And so, there's one of several issues. I'm not sure which one you want me to target.
BURNETT: Just any one just in case people -- because I think people, you know, they hear about Fukushima, there are things people are afraid of. But things -- you know, you're talking they don't even know to worry about.
BROCKOVICH: Well, I think there were some of the things we're afraid of is, you know, there's been some meltdowns. I deal with the Rocketdyne situation in Simi Valley, California, where there's actually a meltdown and people don't know that. But we're trying to address these massive amounts of cancer in and around the area.
I was desperately trying before I came on the show -- I lost my connection at home, to kind of give you some information about people that are reporting and some of the things that are happening. Another thing that we take for granted, it isn't necessarily about a nuclear power plant but about all these nuclear weapons and ammunitions that have been buried in and around towns that we aren't addressing and are releasing nuclear and in some, you know, instances radiation and fallout. And we're seeing -- I'm seeing these disease processes.
And I'm being inundated with this from, like, the Perry nuclear facility, as I said, in Simi Valley, California, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, out in Las Vegas where there's nuclear test sites and what's happening, down in to Florida and their nuclear power plants.
There was a fascinating study that was done called the Tooth Fairy where they actually were studying baby teeth. And they were finding like 33 percent increase in disease just in and around these nuclear facilities. The Gannon nuclear power plant which is right here in Upstate New York, the issues in Long Island and the nuclear waste there. Middletown, Ohio, which is nuclear waste and ammunition.
So, these are things -- just a few of the things that I don't think people are looking at when it comes to nuclear power.
BURNETT: And we're just looking here on the map -- 120 million Americans live within 50 mile of these plants. So, you're mentioning a few of them. These are very real. People don't often think about it.
BROCKOVICH: We don't.
So, what was the best part about writing a thriller like this for you?
BROCKOVICH: Well, because I love A.J., because, you know, she's just not perfect. I don't think that any of us are.
BURNETT: She's sort of you, right?
BROCKOVICH: She's sort of me. But A.J.'s figured out how to be her own hero. And I think that that's really important. And what I wanted to do with the book was to touch upon these issues, not to create this like big panic and scare, but get people to become aware of their surroundings and what's happening in their community.
And oftentimes, we'll see somebody we aspire to be, but we say, oh, I'll never be that person or I can't be like that. I'm hoping that A.J. can touch everybody and that they realize they can be like her as well.
So I'm intrigued by her myself. She gets a lot of -- gets away with a lot of things that I couldn't do. So I love that about her.
But again, she doesn't have the most formal education, but that's the thing. You just don't I believe you have to have some PhD to pay attention to what's going on around you, become aware and to know that you can do things to help protect yourself.
BURNETT: All the cancers around the country, you track them, 168 sites.
BROCKOVICH: On my map.
BURNETT: On your map. Where are you focused right now? I think you've got to feel some. But where are some of the areas where you see the clusters right now that may or may not be related to nuclear?
BROCKOVICH: Oh, yes. There's a map. If you blow that thing open, it's pretty startling to see I think that were visual. But you can clearly see like in the Northeast corner, right where we're speaking, in and around New York and New Jersey, there's clusters. And as you open it up, you can see it.
In California, there are some particular clusters.
BURNETT: You say you get e-mails from around the world. And I was curious, having traveled to some places that clearly have environmental issues. Where are you getting a big uptick and emails people reaching out to you outside the U.S.?
BROCKOVICH: Well, I track information from 124 countries and territories. Australia, Canada, Ireland, Greece, a lot.
BROCKOVICH: Italy, a lot. France is coming in. South Africa. And most recently, because I can trend kind of what's going on -- China.
BROCKOVICH: And a big push from like almost activists in China that are getting very, very concerned about pollution and water issues and what's happening to their health.
BURNETT: Well, Erin Brockovich, thank you so much. Wonderful to meet you. I was telling Erin before she came on the show, I finally got to meet you. I've watched you forever.
So, thanks for coming on and talking about your book.
BROCKOVICH: Hey, thanks. A.J.'s the next activist hero.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks again.
BROCKOVICH: Keep an eye on her. Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. And let's hand it off to Anderson.