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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Cain Train at a Crossing; Campaigner in Chief?; Global Markets Celebrate
Aired November 30, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks. Good evening, everyone.
We begin tonight "Keeping Them Honest." With presidential candidate Herman Cain and Ginger White, the woman who says she had a 13-year affair with him. Both are speaking out today. He is denying the affair. She is recalling details of it and saying he's not fit to be president.
Someone is not telling the truth.
Wherever the truth may be, however, Herman Cain is in full damage control mode and could drop out of the race.
CNN's Jim Acosta caught up with the candidate in Dayton, Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Cain? Mr. Cain, Jim Acosta with CNN. Are you vowing to stay in this race? Is that your message?
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are reassessing, re- evaluating.
ACOSTA: But are you staying in the race?
CAIN: We are re-evaluating and reassessing.
ACOSTA: How soon until we have a final answer on your future plans?
CAIN: We'll be making a decision in the next several days.
COOPER: Well, late today, Cain appeared on FOX News. We should point out here that he routinely refuses to come on this program. We asked again today and his campaign said he was unavailable all week. Somehow he did find time to sit down with FOX News' Neil Cavuto.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So I don't want to over-belabor this -- I mean you're answering these questions directly. But on Ginger White, why would she say -- she's known you 13 years. And you say a non-amorous friendship. Why would she say, out of the blue, he's not fit to be president?
CAIN: Neil, I have no idea unless the people who I believe are putting her up to this -- maybe that was one of the lines that she was supposed to use. I -- Neil, I have no idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Herman Cain saying he believes Ginger White was put up to it. But when he's asked who put her up to it, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: We have no idea who it is. But I just happen to know that the reason that I was trying to help her as a friend, financially, because she was in some deep financial problems about to not even be able to pay her rent. So I don't know who's behind it. But -- at this point but we are going to try to figure out as much as we can because this is a direct character assassination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So he can't say who's pressuring Ginger White to bad mouth him if in fact that's what she's doing. But he does have a theory that covers the whole string of recent allegations against him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: You're the only one who seems to gather or collect -- again, accurate or no -- these type of charges whether it's harassment, whether it's womanizing, whether it's inappropriate relationships. It all might not be anything, like you say. But they tend to pile up around you. Why is that?
CAIN: Well, Neil, here again, I don't have an answer as to why that is the case. But I can only conjecture that maybe I am the Democrats' worst nightmare if I win the nomination. And as long as I was still low in the polls relative to the Republican nomination, this stuff didn't come out. It was only after I got in the top tier and lo and behold there it came.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Herman Cain tonight. Again, we invited him on this program, invitation remains open. He's always welcome.
His accuser, meantime, also has yet to present evidence to back up her claims of a 13-year affair, and not just a long standing platonic friendship as Herman Cain is claiming. Today in "Good Morning America" she says she didn't save any notes or receipts during the alleged affair because she never planned to go public. White did however describe a trip she says they took together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GINGER WHITE, CLAIMS SHE HAD 13-YEAR AFFAIR WITH CAIN: It was a very casual affair that Herman flew me to -- on several trips. I went on several trips with Herman. We -- one particular trip was the Mike Tyson-Holyfield fight in Las Vegas. You know. I can't make this stuff up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, that remains to be seen. Because as we mentioned she's offered no hard evidence to support that or her other claims. The only verifiable fact tonight, fair or not, is just how deeply troubled the Cain campaign seems to be.
Joining us now is Ari Fleischer, White House spokesman during the George W. Bush administration. You can follow him on Twitter @AriFleischer. Also Democratic strategist and Obama 2012 pollster Cornell Belcher.
Ari, is the Cain campaign getting to the point where it could do some damage to your party?
ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY FOR PRES. BUSH: Oh, no. I mean to the party? Did Bill Clinton's affairs do damage to the Democratic Party? Did what John Edwards do do damage to the Democratic Party?
These things will come individual damage. But the broader point here, Anderson, is -- and I say this as somebody who has been a fan of Herman Cain and who liked him, but at the same time I've been saying for months, Herman Cain is not ready for the oval office. That's the more fundamental issues.
None of us know what the truth of this he says-she says that are piling up is, but what we do know is that Herman Cain on policy is not prepared to be president of the United States. I've been saying that for months. So in so many ways this is doesn't matter except for where will the Cain votes go if he does drop out. That matters a lot.
COOPER: Cornell, do you believe he's doing damage to the other Republicans in the race?
CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, I'll say a couple of things. One is the whole idea that nothing was going on it seems to be -- is a stretch. I mean every guy in America knows if you're texting and calling a woman at 4:00 in the morning that's not about finances. That's a booty call. So he's not passing the credibility test there.
COOPER: Stop using the tough terms.
BELCHER: And -- well, the other thing is, you know, I will push back on my friend Ari a little bit here. I think what the Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky scandal actually did do a lot of damage to the Democratic brand. And look, and I don't give Michael Steele a lot of credit for anything, but I think Michael still is right on this one.
All this affects -- all this attention on Herman Cain is taking away from what the Republicans want to be talking about and talking away from who right now their two top -- two top candidates. Because right now on Anderson Cooper's show at the top of the hour we're talking about Herman Cain and that cannot help the Republican Party.
COOPER: Does it hurt one candidate more or does it help any of the Republican candidates, Cornel, do you think?
BELCHER: I do think it -- look, I think -- I think in an interesting way maybe irony is not the word for this but Newt Gingrich is benefiting from a man having an affair here. Absolutely. Because look, even at 17 or 16 percent support which Herman Cain has dropped down to, he's still got a base of those anti-Mitt Romney supporters.
And if -- and if Newt Gingrich can sort of begin to consolidate that anti-Mitt Romney base of voters out there, it becomes a real problem. I think that's why you see Mitt begin to sort of pivot and turn his attacks frontally on Newt Gingrich in the way that he didn't attack Perry or Bachmann or even Cain when -- early on when they rose in the polls.
COOPER: Ari, do you agree with that?
COOPER: I mean you saw that CNN poll that did seem to indicate that Newt Gingrich benefits the most from Cain's supporters.
FLEISCHER: Well, that's right, Anderson. And that's frankly to me the only issue that really matters now. And if Herman Cain stays in the race, that's good news for Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney, if he's going to do well in Iowa, he needs a multiple field that divides so he can conquer it.
The fewer opponents Mitt Romney has in Iowa, the harder it will be for him to have any kind of plurality of a decent size showing that gives him a boost coming out of Iowa. So he needs Herman Cain to stay in this race. If Herman Cain were to drop out, the fewer opponents for Romney in Iowa, the harder it's going to be for Romney to come out of Iowa, the boost that he's looking for to take him through New Hampshire and carry him forward.
That's the real play here. That's what's at stake politically speaking.
COOPER: Cornell, how significant do you think it is that Romney is now coming out the past day or so slamming Gingrich?
BELCHER: I think -- you know, as a pollster, I can smell another pollster's work. I mean, look, clearly they've done some research and says that Newt is a threat to them in a way that -- and that's going to be real to them in a way that Perry wasn't.
And now they're sort of beginning to set the contrast with him. And I think they start with the insider-outsider contrast. But I've got a feeling that they're not going to end with that. And the campaign, you start throwing out contrasts and start working with contrast if you think they're going to work until you get to one that works.
I got a feeling on the paid communication side they're going to start with this insider-outside contrast but in the end I would not be at all surprised that when it comes down to paid communication when the campaign really starts, when they're paying for communication, when they're paying for ads, and when they're paying for under-the- radar stuff like mail and robocalls, they're going to hit Newt Gingrich on character and draw a strong character contrast between Mitt Romney, with a picture of his family, faithful family man, versus Newt Gingrich and what those conservative voters that Ari knows better than I do, that can be a very powerful contrast.
COOPER: Ari, I saw you shaking your head.
FLEISCHER: Yes. I think the stronger play for Mitt Romney is electability issue. What Republicans want more than anything else is to defeat Obama. And they're willing to accept flaws in candidates. In many ways Mitt Romney is everybody's plan B. Nobody really likes him, not enough people really like him to excite the Republican Party.
But what excites us is the prospect of defeating Barack Obama. And to the degree that Romney is stronger positioned to do that than Gingrich, that's going to play an awful big role in the minds of a lot of Republicans as they go to vote. That can make up --
COOPER: And Ari --
FLEISCHER: -- for a lot of Romney's weaknesses.
COOPER: Ari, do you think he's stronger positioned to beat -- to beat Obama?
FLEISCHER: Well, he is today. He is right now and he has been for months. Newt's task is to really pick up his numbers so people who say, you know what? I prefer Newt to Romney. But I don't think Newt can win. Newt's got to start demonstrating that he can beat Barack Obama in head-to-heads, especially in the battleground states.
Right now Mitt Romney has about a five to 10-point edge over Newt Gingrich in electability over Obama in many of those battleground states. Big task ahead for Newt to address that shortfall.
COOPER: It's getting interesting.
Cornell Belcher, Ari Fleischer, guys, thanks very much.
Let us know what you think. We're on Facebook. Follow us on Google Plus, you can add us to your circles. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I'll be tweeting tonight.
Up next, President Obama accused of mixing the business of governing with the business of campaigning, and you may be paying for most of it. We're going to ask the president's spokesman how he accounts for all the travel.
And also show you why it's been business for usual for years. "Keeping Them Honest" tonight.
Later major new developments to Penn State sex abuse scandal. The first lawsuit now has been filed against Jerry Sandusky and Penn State. The plaintiff is a new accuser not mentioned in the grand jury report. Details ahead.
COOPER: "Keeping Them Honest" now. President Obama's getting heat for racking up frequent flyer miles on Air Force One at your expense to boost his reelection chances. That's the accusation.
In a moment, you'll hear the rebuttal from White House spokesman Jay Carney.
President Obama is in New York tonight for a string of campaign fundraisers off limits to the general public. But before Air Force One touched down tonight at Kennedy and took off from Wilkes- Barre/Scranton International Airport in eastern Pennsylvania where Mr. Obama spoke about the economy and his jobs plan at a local high school.
He talked about policy, about his jobs plan. But critics say that both legs of this trip, New York and Scranton are more about politics than policy. The president, they say, has checked out of the White House and stepped on the campaign trail.
Here's how Speaker Boehner who began leveling this kind of charges last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Nothing has disappointed me more than what's happened over the last five weeks. To watch the president of the United States give up on governing, give up on leading, and spend full time campaigning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It is debatable but it's whether a trip to push for a jobs plan adds up to a campaign stop, that's the question, if it takes place in a battleground state like Pennsylvania.
What's not debatable is this. President Obama has been spending an awful lot of time on the road in states that are crucial in his reelection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello, Iowa. Hello, Cincinnati. It is good to be in Orlando. It is great to be back in Pittsburgh. It is great to be back in the Motor City. It is good to be back in Asheville, North Carolina. It is great to be here in North Carolina. It is great to be in Virginia. Great to be in the Philly area. Hello, New Hampshire. It is good to be back in Scranton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's just a sample. According to "Wall Street Journal" Mr. Obama has made 56 visits to battleground states this year. That breaks George W. Bush's record of 49 events in 2003, and Bill Clinton's 40 in 1995. Both sides, of course, do it. And when they're traveling, you're paying.
It's traditionally up to the White House to decide which events or campaign stops and which aren't. But according to a 2006 report prepared for Democrats on the House Committee on Government Reform, taxpayers put most of the bill in either case. The report covered presidential and vice presidential travel leading up to the 2002 midterm elections.
The findings. $6.5 million in flight expenses in which political campaigns only reimburse $198,000. That is just 3 percent. The report went on to say that flight expenses are just a fraction of what it costs and what you pay to put the president on the road. The bottom line, quote, the president and vice president can legally participate in campaign and fund-raising events for candidates but when they do so, the taxpayer bears most of the cost.
Now that a democratic report complaining about then Republican trips. Today, well, the tables are turned. But in many cases you are still picking up the tab.
The White House, though, is pushing back hard on this one.
COOPER: And joining me now White House spokesman Jay Carney.
Jay, no one is saying the president of the United States shouldn't go out and speak to the American people. Is it just coincidence, tough, that so many of his travels take him to states that are considered in play for the next election? I mean it can't be a coincidence.
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, Anderson, I would simply point out that so many of the states that the president is -- the president travels to are considered in play next year because we live in a country that's closely divided politically and this president, when he ran for office the first time in 2008, put a lot of states that have previously not been considered to be in play like he is going to battleground states?
I will point out that so many of the states that president's traveled to are considered in play next year because we live in a country that's closely divided politically and this president, when he ran for office the first time in 2008, put a lot of states that had previously not been considered to be in play like Virginia and North Carolina, Indiana and others into play and won them. So what I've said from this podium in the past is that if this president were unable to travel to states considered in play politically as president of the United States on official business, he would have to rule out travel to a great portion of the country. And we're not going to do that.
Every president, Republican or Democrat, ought to be able to travel around the country to states that are considered blue, red and purple to talk about his agenda or her agenda. And that's what this president is doing.
COOPER: You can't deny, though, that politics does play a role somewhere in the decision of where to go for the president. I mean in terms of campaigning and --
CARNEY: Well, look, I think you have to define politics. It depends on what you mean by politics. The president made a speech today that's about politics in the sense that when he spoke at high school in Scranton, Pennsylvania, he called on Congress to do the right thing and pass a payroll tax cut -- extension and expansion for 160 million working Americans.
Now that's a political thing because this is a political process here. We have both parties in Congress. Republicans have a point of view about payroll tax cut. The president has a point of view and he's urging Congress to act. But this all stems from a "Wall Street Journal" article that falls -- that, you know, misleadingly asserted that President Obama has traveled more to so-called battleground states than his two predecessors.
But it included in that total travel to Virginia for President Obama. But not for President George W. Bush.
COOPER: You're saying because there's more battleground --
CARNEY: Every president do --
COOPER: More states are in play this time, you're saying.
CARNEY: More states in play, but also because every president travels to Virginia. It's 10 minutes from the oval office.
COOPER: There are a lot of Republicans --
CARNEY: What I'm saying is that President Obama could be ahead by 20 points in Virginia and he would still go to Virginia because it's nearby and the presidents want to get out of Washington. Virginia is the closest place they can go and Maryland, of course.
COOPER: You know the criticism especially being labeled -- being given Republicans right now is the president is spending too much time essentially on the road campaigning. Tonight he's at three top dollar fundraisers here in New York after spending the day in Pennsylvania which, as you said, promoting an extension to the payroll tax cut. Is the trip to New York being paid for with public funds or is that --
CARNEY: Everything -- when we -- when this president travels for political events, like the campaign events he has in New York, those are paid for appropriately by out of DNC or campaign funds. I mean I -- you know -- but the trip he made to Scranton, Pennsylvania prior to going to New York was an official event.
And this president has a responsibility to travel around the country to advance his agenda. And is he campaigning? Yes. He's campaigning for the American Jobs Act. To pass the tax cut that would benefit 160 million Americans.
COOPER: The Congressional Research Service says that when a trip is for campaign purposes, the federal government is only reimbursed for how much a typical commercial airline ticket would cost. It has made I think the cost for an hour of Air Force One is $58,000. So that the public really does end up paying, though, a lot of the bill of trips that are considered political.
CARNEY: Anderson, I'm not sure where you're going with this. I mean by comparison to any other president, this president operates absolutely by the book and according to the rules. He is president 24 hours a day, seven days a week. When he travels, he has to travel with the compliment of advisors including on national security matters and others that always have to be with him, whether it's political travel or official travel. And that is part of the reality of being president. But you can be sure that we do this absolutely by the book.
COOPER: So do those Republicans who were saying that the president is spending too much time in campaign mode you say --
CARNEY: Again, never -- if you take out Virginia which is across the river and every president travels to in abundance, his immediate predecessor actually traveled more frequently to so-called battleground states than President Obama and I don't remember Republicans complaining about that.
COOPER: Jay Carney. Appreciate your time, Jay. Thank you.
CARNEY: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, still ahead, if you have money in the stock market, chances are you maybe made some money today. The Dow soared 500 points. But is this big gain actually bad news for global markets? We'll talk about that ahead.
Also in "Crime & Punishment" tonight, new developments in the Penn State sex child scandal. Today a new accuser filed a lawsuit against former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky and his child sexual abuse scandal. We have the details plus a new interview with Sandusky's attorney coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: In tonight's "News and Business Bulletin," a surge on Wall Street.
The Dow ended the day up 490 point, the largest gain this year. The Dow, Nasdaq and S&P all were up more than 4 percent. The Wall Street rally happened after the Fed announced it's going to work with other central banks including Europe and Canada to try to help shore up the global economy by making it cheaper for banks around the world to borrow U.S. dollars.
Christine Romans joins us now trying to help us explain.
So why did the Fed do this?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Because we were seeing some dangerous signs in global markets that it was getting more difficult and more expensive for banks to borrow money from each other overnight, to borrow dollars. This is how the world does business, in dollars. And overnight lending is something that is basically the life blood of the financial system, Anderson.
And we were seeing, you know, the arteries getting clogged. And it was starting to look like it did back in late 2008. And that was really scary. So in the absence of any kind of political movement in Europe and the U.S., you had central banks coming in with the big guns and saying we're going to keep the money flowing.
COOPER: How much of this these days is about what's happening in Europe?
ROMANS: It's all about Europe right now.
COOPER: It is?
ROMANS: Absolutely. And there were so many signs of concern among those European banks. I mean this is such an important moment, a dramatic moment. I mean people are saying that the euro zone is unraveling right before our eyes.
ROMANS: It's the biggest trading zone for the U.S. The United States cannot avoid another very dangerous recession if you see a very big pull back or -- you know an implosion of the euro zone. I mean -- we just -- we would not get by unscathed. So they want to keep this thing afloat.
COOPER: And I mean the markets reacted well which obviously people are happy about, you know, in the short term. What about long- term investors?
ROMANS: That's a really good point. Because you saw people just going crazy today saying wow, this is so great. This is so great. And the big point here is that this is still a defensive move. This is still a central bank saying we're at the precipice here and we're going to make sure we don't go over the edge. We're still at the edge, though.
ROMANS: In terms of Europe. So that's an important thing to keep in mind here. You've only have 10 days or so for the euro zone and for leaders there to kind of figure out what they're going to do, how they're going to get these 17 -- basically 17 extended family members who are all sharing the same checking account, as one economist told me. I mean think about that.
I mean that's a little complicated.
ROMANS: Especially when some people are putting more money into the bank account, others are taking out more. That's what --
COOPER: Also the decision making process for the euro zone is very laborious. I mean it's very difficult.
ROMANS: Yes. And to try to fix it, you have all these treaties between different countries.
ROMANS: That you have to fix and not very much time to do it. They've been behind the curve for a very long time. And that's what the Fed, the central bank, even China actually loosening some of its lending restrictions at the very same time, kind of a whole world getting together, Anderson, to say we're going to keep the blood flowing so that there is more time to get this all sorted out. But no one wants to go back to the kind of credit conditions we had in 2008.
ROMANS: And that's what the worry was.
COOPER: Wow. Before the Lehman collapse.
ROMANS: I mean that was ugly. I mean that meant millions of jobs lost.
ROMANS: You know, factories closed. It was just -- I mean people right now are still suffering from what happened back then. So the central banks, Ben Bernanke, the ECB, even China, all of them stepping up and saying, we're going to keep the money flowing so that we don't face that right now. COOPER: Right.
ROMANS: And that's why markets were so happy because they said, look, policy makers are going to make sure -- not politicians.
ROMANS: But central bankers are going to make sure the worst doesn't happen right here.
COOPER: All right. Christine Romans, appreciate it. Thank you.
COOPER: A lot more we're following tonight. Susan Hendricks has the "360 Bulletin" -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, police now believe 10 sets of human remains -- we're still getting details here -- found along a desolate stretch of a Long Island beach since last December are linked to just one serial killer.
Also a 360 follow, four members of a breakaway Amish group charged with hate crimes were arraigned in federal court today in Youngstown, Ohio. According to the "Tribune Chronicle", the judge ordered the men to remain in prison saying they're a danger to the Amish community. The men are accused of shaving the beards of people who refuse to follow their leader, Samuel Mullet, Sr.
According to court documents, Mullet wanted to seek revenge and punish those who were leaving his group. Three other defendants will be in court on Friday.
Ninety-three-year-old evangelist Billy Graham is hospitalized tonight in Asheville, North Carolina, for what officials say is, quote, "evaluation and treatment of his lungs."
And how about this? A tough day for Santa at a Palm Beach Florida mall this past weekend. He tried to make a grand entrance -- take a look -- by repelling into the crowd. But his beard got stuck and he couldn't move.
It's safe to say this is no jolly St. Nick. He ended up tearing off his beard and hat. He eventually made it to the ground. And as this was happening, the announcer trying her best just singing Christmas carols trying to stall.
COOPER: Oh no.
HENDRICKS: And the kids were down below saying, Santa, Santa. Yes.
COOPER: Oh my -- no.
HENDRICKS: He made it down at least.
COOPER: I think the singing makes it worse almost.
HENDRICKS: We wish you a merry Christmas -- it's, you know.
HENDRICKS: What else could she do?
COOPER: Wow. Talk about an awkward stall for time. Man.
HENDRICKS: Start singing, kids.
COOPER: Yes. Kids, look over there.
COOPER: Susan, thanks very much. We'll check in with you shortly.
Much more serious news ahead coming up. The first lawsuits stemming from the Penn State child sex abuse scandal has been filed. It accuses former defensive football coach Jerry Sandusky of sexually abusing a boy more than 100 times and threatened to harm him and his family if he's told. Sandusky's attorney speaking out again tonight.
Also, fast moving developments in the sex abuse scandal at Syracuse University. New details tonight about that taped phone conversation between one of Bernie Fines' accusers and the former coach's wife. Details ahead.
COOPER: Tonight, the child sex abuse scandal that is shaking Penn State University brought former students and school leaders together at a town hall forum held on campus a chance to talk candidly and ask questions.
Hours earlier, the first lawsuit was filed against former defensive football coach, Jerry Sandusky who's charged with sexually abusing eight boys. Charges he denies. Penn State is also named in a lawsuit along with the charity Sandusky founded for underprivileged kids.
Now the suit was filed on behalf of someone listed as John Doe, a 29-year-old man who says he was 10 years old when he first met Sandusky. This man is a new accuser, not mentioned actually in that grand jury report.
His attorneys claim Sandusky sexually abused their client more than 100 times and threatened to harm him and his family if he told anyone. As for Sandusky, his attorney says he is working with a private investigator to prove his innocence.
In an interview today with CNN contributor Sara Ganim, Amendola said he's talked to one of the alleged victims describing that extremely graphic grand jury report that led to Sandusky's arrest. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE AMENDOLA, ATTORNEY FOR JERRY SANDUSKY: What I'm saying is that young man was in my office several weeks ago following the charges against Jerry and he sat here with this mother and his brother and said he was not a victim.
That he was the young man he believed in the shower the night that McQueary said he went in and saw Jerry engaging in some sort of sexual act. The young man said that he was the boy in the shower as far as he knew, but he was not engaged in any sexual acts with Jerry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Sara Ganim who is also a reporter at "The Patriot News" joins me now. Sara, there was a new lawsuit filed today from this victim not part of the grand jury. What have you learned about the victim, about the lawsuit?
SARA GANIM, REPORTER, "PATRIOT NEWS": Well, what we know is he's about 29 years old. He's coming forward alleging the sexual abused by Jerry Sandusky more than 100 times, but he's not one of those victims outlined in that grand jury presentment.
So what we believe from the attorney general's office ongoing investigation is that he might be talking to police at this point, but so far he is not -- he is not one of the eight victims with charges against Jerry Sandusky, only in a civil suit.
COOPER: Has the Second Mile group responded to the lawsuit?
GANIM: The Second Mile did respond and they're saying only that they're going to respond appropriately to any lawsuit, any litigation that's brought against them and that they -- their thoughts remain with the victims and their families.
But they're not specifically responding to the claims in that lawsuit, which are that they should have known that they should have done something and the same thing with Penn State.
That Penn State being Jerry Sandusky's employer should have done something to prevent him from having alone time with children.
COOPER: I want to play more of your interview Jerry Sandusky's attorney today. The attorney claims that the alleged victim told him nothing sexual happened. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMENDOLA: He said he had turned on all the shower faucets. As you know, there are big showers at the Penn State Football Complex. He turned all the shower heads on and water was running on the floor. He said he was surfing. He would one from run end to the other and slide across the shower floor. He said nothing sexual occurred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, this is obviously in complete contradiction to what this Coach McQueary or who is then a graduate assistant says he saw and testified to seeing what is the attorney saying the victim told the attorney about what Coach McQueary testified he saw?
GANIM: Well, contrary to what the grand jury presentiment says, which is that Coach McQueary was seen by Sandusky and by the boy, according to Joe Amendola, the boy who says he is victim, now the man who says he's victim two said that he didn't know there was a witness to anything that was going on in that shower at the time.
But two days later, something happened that made that instance memorable. And that was that Jerry Sandusky called him up and said, listen, Penn State officials said somebody felt uncomfortable about what was going on in that shower two days ago.
And I gave them your name. I gave them your number and they might be calling to ask you if something happened. Just tell them what happened. And, you know, from the grand jury presentiment, we know that it's been alleged that no one from Penn State ever reached out to that child.
So it's very interesting what Joe Amendola is saying that Penn State officials did know who that boy was. They knew his identity and didn't contact him.
COOPER: Sara Ganim, we appreciate it. Thanks very much.
I want to bring in our legal panel, criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos and senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Mark, I want to play another clip from the interview that reporter, Sara Ganim did with Sandusky's attorney today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GANIM: What is the point where you say maybe we should talk about a plea deal? And are you already having the conversations with them?
AMENDOLA: No, we haven't. As a matter of fact, you know from your experience, Sara, that people who maintain their innocence sometimes plead guilty just because of the overwhelming evidence against them.
And there have been many people who go to trial who are convicted of very serious crimes including homicides and executed and later turned out that they were innocent.
So there are a lot of reasons why people decide to do certain things, but at this point, Jerry has maintained his innocence in regard to the allegations he knows about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What do you make of that answer? Does it sound like they're considering a plea deal and he is setting the table for that or is he just sort of hypothetically talking?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It sounds like the door is open. I don't know how else to put it. I mean, it's a true statement. People all the time take plea deals because it's in their best interest. There is a U.S. Supreme Court case right on point, a California case that's right on point that you can take a plea deal.
Yes, it's true. People go to trial and get convicted unjustly. There is discussion about whether or not people have been executed because of that. All of that is accurate. Why do you put that out there? It sounds to me like you're telegraphing the fact that the door is open and there's some communication going on.
COOPER: Jeff, do you agree with that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I agree. Although, I think it's important to remember we're really early in this process. I mean, there is an investigation that is very much on going.
When you have a big case like this, the first indictment is almost always superseded by further indictments that are either broader, as usually the case, or narrower. So I just think it's premature.
COOPER: If what his Attorney Amendola is saying true about what this alleged victim has told him or told Sandusky or is willing to say to authorities, it completely contradicts in the grand jury report, what McQueary has told the grand jury.
TOOBIN: It does. And it's possible that there is simply contradictory evidence out in the world. It is possible that witnesses told two different stories.
This is what trial prep is all about, learning what the witnesses say and see how strong your case is. It's only at that point you decide whether a plea is really the right thing to do after you look at the evidence.
COOPER: Mark, this lawsuit by this new victim or alleged victim who has come forward names the university and Sandusky and also the charity. How does that work? Would they all face trial together? Would they merge their defense in a civil suit?
GERAGOS: It's interesting. It's interesting how those are usually handled. If somebody is named as a defendant and here you have three defendants, one of them is facing criminal prosecution or investigation, they can move to have the civil suit stayed, which means, judge, we don't want to go forward with this right now.
Put it aside until we finish with the criminal. Whether the judge does that for one defendant, all defendants, or whether the judge says, no, you can have what's called third party discovery meaning that they can take the deposition of McQueary.
That is really up in the air. Judges craft that all the time. It's actually a very common issue any time you have these kinds of investigations where you've got the civil lawsuits that are getting in the middle of that.
Remember, in this case you have so many agencies investigating or at least kind of like a flame here to throw civil lawsuits into it as well really kind of mucks up the whole thing.
COOPER: Mark, is there -- is there a statute of limitations in a civil case like this?
GERAGOS: Yes, there absolutely is a statute of limitations. And I'll tell you, the criminal case, I think, is going to have to deal with some of the statute of limitations issues although it's more expansive or it can be read more expansively.
Although the U.S. Supreme Court has weighed in at least on a California statute that has applicability nationally that you can't revive a case after the fact if it's already at the -- if the statute's already run and the client can't be prosecuted.
TOOBIN: Pennsylvania just changed its law in 2002 to expand the statute of limitations for minors and sexual abuse cases until they're 30 years old. John Doe was 29. It's very significant that he's 29 because by filing it now, he gets in under the statute of limitations. If he'd waited a few months longer, he might not.
COOPER: The other thing that is interesting that Attorney Amendola is saying is that four of these alleged victims outlined in the grand jury report have had in recent years what he described as congenial relationships with Sandusky, even going to his home and visiting his wife.
TOOBIN: That may be significant. That may be evidence that no abuse took place. There is also a pattern and sexual abuse cases of people, you know, having continuing relationships. These are very weird and unfortunate and difficult relationships. But that alone doesn't prove that sexual abuse did not take place.
COOPER: Mark Geragos and Jeff Toobin, guys, thanks very much. It's an interesting discussion.
Up next, new developments in the Syracuse sex abuse case. We're learning more about the recorded phone call between Bernie Fine's wife and one of his accusers and the role a local newspaper played in setting that up. We'll be right back.
COOPER: In "Crime and Punishment" tonight, like Penn State, Syracuse University is dealing with disturbing allegations of sex abuse scandal. Allegations against former associate men's basketball coach Bernie Fine who was fired on Sunday after a third accuser came forward.
And ESPN and a local newspaper reported on a taped conversation between Fine's wife and his first accuser. Fine has not been charged with any crimes and he emphatically maintains he is innocent.
In a 360 exclusive interview with Gary Tuchman, his second accuser, Mike Lang, described in detail last night on camera what he says Fine did to him when he was just a teenager.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When did you realize that there was something wrong with what he was doing? What did he do to you?
MIKE LANG, ACCUSES BERNIE FINE OF SEXUAL ABUSE: He touched me. He kept touching me.
TUCHMAN: So where though? Where did he touch you?
LANG: In my leg and my penis.
TUCHMAN: And did you say something to him?
LANG: Yes. I said Bernie, please stop this because I'm not that kind. I don't -- I won't tolerate it. If you don't want me to come over here, I won't come over here. But if you keep doing it, I won't come over here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now Lang says he was sickened when he heard about the Penn State sex abuse charges and that's why he came forward after all these years.
But despite his accusations against Fine, Lang is a big Syracuse fan. He thinks head basketball coach, Jim Boeheim should keep his job. Last night, Boeheim defended standing up for his former assistant --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BOEHEIM, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY MEN'S BASKETBALL COACH: I supported a friend, that's what I thought I did. I'm proud that I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mike Lang's stepbrother, Bobby Davis, was the first accuser to come forward to police back in 2002. He refused to investigate because the statute of limitations expired. Davis is the one who taped that phone conversation that he had with Fine's wife, Laurie as mentioned ESPN released it this past weekend. Here's some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURIE FINE, WIFE OF BERNIE FINE: Right. Right. He just has a nasty attitude because he didn't get his money nor did he get what he wanted. He didn't get -- BOBBY DAVIS: It's not about the money.
FINE: It's about the -- I know that. So you're -- I'm just telling you for your own good. You're better off staying away from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Tonight, we're learning more about that taped phone call and how the newspaper, "The Post Standard" had a hand in getting it made. Gary Tuchman joins me now. So Gary, what do we know?
TUCHMAN: Well, Anderson, we know a lot more tonight about the secret audio tape of Bernie Fine's wife, Laurie. What we know is this. The local newspaper here in Syracuse is telling us tonight that it knew in advance that accuser, Bobby Davis is going to secretly record the conversation.
Does that mean it was the newspaper's idea? Well, we can't tell you that. The "Syracuse Post Standard" is not commenting to us on the record. But they are saying is a statement, a printed statement that has come up.
It says this, after discussions with our reporter and with our knowledge, Bobby Davis secretly recorded a phone conversation with Laurie Fine on October 8, 2002. Our understanding is that was legal under the laws of Utah and New York for one of the states to record a phone conversation in another state without informing the second party.
Now Davis was in Utah at the time. It sounds like the paper was giving a little legal advice about placing the call. At this point, the newspaper is telling us that it would have done the story if it could have supported Laurie Davis saying this incident happened.
But they did not hear it directly from Laurie Davis. Therefore, they waited to see what was on the phone call and they ended up not doing the story -- Anderson.
COOPER: So if the paper was involved in reporting the phone call or giving advice about it, did they say why they didn't publish the story after the tape clearly raised a lot of eyebrows or questions?
TUCHMAN: Yes. Well, after listening to the tape, the paper decided it was too vague and ambiguous. It wasn't good enough to support the story. So the paper kept the tape quiet for over nine years until now.
Police and the district attorney say they have nothing about the tape all these years. But when the tape was made public, there were several passages that's did not seem ambiguous at all to many people who listened to it including this passage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FINE: What did he want you to do? You can be honest with me. DAVIS: First of all, he was grabbing me and touching me.
FINE: But you never had any oral sex with him?
DAVIS: He -- he -- I think he would have.
FINE: Of course, he would be?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Now the newspaper stresses that ESPN made the decision not to release the tape. Also that's true. But why didn't either organization at least talk to authorities about the tape?
The paper stresses police didn't take the investigation seriously in 2002 and that they did not feel comfortable handing over police material.
That's what they said. A lot of questions we have for the newspaper, which got this tape before anybody else. But once again, they have made the decision not to talk to us about that -- Anderson.
COOPER: And Gary, you know, I was wondering, whatever happened to the statement that we were expecting from Laurie Fine about the audio tape?
TUCHMAN: Well, that was very interesting. Two days ago, we heard from the nephew of Laurie Fine that she was going to make a statement, a written statement saying that audio tape was misinterpreted.
So we didn't get the statement Monday. We actually went to her door and tried to ask her personally if she had a statement to make. It was a very short conversation. Only like 30 seconds. What was notable about the conversation is that she did not say anything about any statements she wasn't going it make it. Back to you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Gary, appreciate it. Some breaking news from the campaign trail. We take you to Manchester, New Hampshire. Herman Cain talking to reporters. Let's listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of distraction would that be? What is your response?
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My response relative to the question of will there be other distractions, if you look at the fact that I have been -- my career was in business for over 40 years.
I have worked with thousands of people. I can't possibly say that someone won't trump up another accusation. It just goes with the territory. So there's no way that I can guarantee that some more mess as my grandmother would say, is going to come up. And so there's no way that I can say that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it problematic as the nominee?
CAIN: It makes me problematic if you looking for someone with no blemishes and no accusations. When was the last time we had the perfect candidate with no blemishes? You don't have to answer that.
My point is this -- if your opposition is determined to bring you down, they will stop at nothing. Now notice -- notice all of the attacks that have been on me for the past few weeks, they stopped attacking 9-9-9 because it's solid.
I ruled out my national security foreign policy strategy yesterday at Hillsdale College. It is solid. The only thing that they are trying to do to bring me down or to knock me out of the race is character assassination.
That's what they've all had in common and so as a result -- one moment -- so as a result of me being an unconventional candidate and someone who is going to fundamentally take power out of Washington, D.C. and give it to the people in terms of restructuring the tax code, that's what they fear the most. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Cain, you say publicly that you're reassessing, that you're re-evaluating. How do you expect supporters to continue throw their support behind you when they don't even know for sure if you will still be in the race?
CAIN: As a businessman, that's what we do. We reassess and we re-evaluate. I have said before, I do not make decisions based upon a knee jerk reaction. That was several things that we're evaluating. I'm evaluating the impact of all of this on my family first. My wife and my family is important to me like it is to anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is your wife?
CAIN: She's doing great. Number one, and so since I've been campaigning all week, I haven't had an opportunity to sit down with her and walk through this with my wife and my family. I will do that when I get back home on Friday.
Secondly, re-evaluate the support of my supporters. It has been overwhelming so far. Thirdly, re-evaluate the impact that this has on fundraising. The day that this latest one hit, fundraising went way down. I admit that because a lot of people were in doubt.
That's not unusual, but here's the good news. As the week has gone on and this woman who has made these accusations is basically starting to contradict herself, our fundraising is going back up. It's not to the level where it was but a lot of people are saying you know what? They don't believe it.
Then the other thing that I'm reassessing is our campaign strategy. We have some campaign strategy up to last weekend and so given everything that's going on, we might reprioritize some things. That's why.
And so I believe that my supporters will respect the fact that I consider all of the information before I make a decision and I think they respect that because that's how I make decisions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Cain, one more question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You haven't sat down and discussed this with your wife yet?
CAIN: That statement is not true. I have --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just repeating what you said.
CAIN: I have discussed this with my wife many times since Monday. You are making an accusation, quite frankly, that is not true. Now, I said --
I said face-to-face. Are you going to be contentious or do you want me to answer the question? I have talked to my wife many times since Monday about this situation. I've not talked to her face-to- face.
That's what I said. We have had many lengthy conversations. This is another reason why that I not going to make a decision until after we talk face-to-face. That's the difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said earlier you were going to have a week or two and a third pillar of your policy right now. You are going to go through with that third energy pillar at the very least?
CAIN: The third pillar is going to be about energy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to go through with that in the next week or two?
CAIN: Right now, we're still putting that together. And that will be announced if I make a decision within the next few days about what I'm going to do relative to the campaign.
The thing about me is that regardless of the decision that I make, I'm going to continue to develop these ideas and these proposals. Why? Because they're good for the country and they're good for the American people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
CAIN: The last one, yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all have long term relationships and friends. What do you want people to understand about Ginger? Who's the Ginger that you know?
CAIN: Let me answer this way, 9-9-9 is going to turn this economy around. Peace through strength and clarity is what we need in order to basically be respectful of our men and women in uniform and energy independence is most critical to this nation for economic as well as national security reasons. Thank you all very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great job.
COOPER: Herman Cain responding to reporters' questions. Jeffrey Toobin is here as well. Clearly, he is saying he's going to have a face-to-face with his wife. I think he said on Friday and then make a determination about whether to move forward with the campaign.
TOOBIN: Yes, it was a less than categorical assertion that he was going forward. It's hard to imagine that his fundraising could be doing much. I mean, who would give money to a candidate who is not definitely is not going to be in the race.
COOPER: He was asked specific questions about whether he in fact did go to Las Vegas for the fight, which Ginger White now says is one of the many trips that they took together.
Still a lot of unanswered questions. I mean, Ginger White hasn't come forward with specific details or proof. Herman Cain though hasn't really been able to explain the nature of their relationship over 13 years.
TOOBIN: I mean, it's hard to imagine that there could be any way he explains that relationship that's going to make people want to elect him president. As long as he's talking about Ginger White, I can't believe he is going to be going up to the polls.
COOPER: Yes. You know, for a day now he's been saying he's reassessing. He continues to use that language. Tonight, in this statement, within two days, it seems perhaps over the weekend or even the beginning of next week, there should be a much clearer answer on whether or not he's moving forward.
TOOBIN: It's got to be or else his support is going to disappear. I mean, we haven't seen post Ginger White polls, but even he acknowledges that the fundraising disappeared. Maybe it's come back a little bit, but he's really got to make a decision one way or another.
COOPER: Let's turn our coverage over to Piers Morgan who is standing by -- Piers.