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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
Part III: 21:00-21:30, CNN Southern Republican Debate
Aired January 19, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
REP. RON PAUL (R-TX.), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, we don't need -- I don't think people need that because nobody's challenging me, because I have no conflict of interest. And I don't even talk to lobbyists and I don't take that kind of money. So there's no conflicts.
JOHN KING, DEBATE MODERATOR AND CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Governor Romney, when will we see yours?
FORMER GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R-MA.), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When my taxes are complete for this year, and I know that if I'm the nominee, the president's going to want to insist that I show what my income was this last year and so forth. When they're completed this year in April, I'll release my returns in April and probably for other years as well.
I know that's what's going to come. Every time the Democrats are out there trying their very best to -- to try and attack people because they've been successful. And -- and I have been successful. But let me tell you, the -- the challenge in America is not people who've been successful. The challenge in America, and President Obama doesn't want to talk about this, is you've got a president who's played 90 rounds of golf while there are 25 million Americans out of work, and -- and you've got...
... and while the price of gasoline has doubled, he said "no" to the Keystone pipeline. And while we've got $15 trillion of debt, he -- he said, "Look, I'm going to put another $1 trillion of debt for Obamacare." That's the problem in America, not the attacks they make on people who've been successful.
KING: But some of the questions about when you release your taxes have not come -- the president has raised them; his campaign has raised them -- you're right on that -- but so have some of your rivals up here. Speaker Gingrich has said you owe them to the people of South Carolina before they vote. Governor Perry made that point as well before he left the race.
Why not should the people of South Carolina before this election see last year's return?
ROMNEY: Because I want to make sure that I beat President Obama. And every time we release things drip by drip, the Democrats go out with another array of attacks. As has been done in the past, if I'm the nominee, I'll put these out at one time so we have one discussion of all of this. I -- I obviously pay all full taxes. I'm honest in my dealings with people. People understand that. My taxes are carefully managed and I pay a lot of taxes. I've been very successful and when I have our -- our taxes ready for this year, I'll release them.
KING: Speaker Gingrich, is that good enough?
FORMER REP. NEWT GINGRICH (R-GA.), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, he's got to decide and the people of South Carolina have to decide. But if there's anything in there that is going to help us lose the election, we should know it before the nomination. And if there's nothing in there -- if there's nothing in there, why not release it?
I mean, it's a very simple model, but he's got to decide. It's his decision and everybody's got to run their own campaign based on what they think is a reasonable risk. I have filed -- I released mine this evening. We also released the little small charitable foundation we have so people can see what we do and how we did it and what our values are.
KING: Senator Santorum, when will we see yours?
FORMER SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R-PA.), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I do my own taxes and they're on my computer and I'm not home. So...
... and there's nobody at home right now. Until I get home, I won't get them. When I get home, you'll get my taxes.
KING: But you -- you did call on the governor to release his.
SANTORUM: No, someone asked me, "would it be OK for the governor," and I said "yes." I didn't think -- I don't think it's a big deal. I mean, if Governor Romney's told what his tax rate is. Mine's higher than that, I can assure you, but I can't tell you what it was. All I know it was very painful writing the check last April. That's all I can tell you.
KING: I want to -- Governor Romney, you mentioned the Democratic attacks. I want to ask you to go back in history a little bit. Back in 1967, your father set a groundbreaking -- what was then a groundbreaking standard in American politics. He released his tax return. He released them for not one year, but for 12 years. And when he did that, he said this: "One year could be a fluke, perhaps done for show." When you release yours, will you follow your father's example?
You know, I don't know how many years I'll release. I'll take a look at what the -- what our documents are and I'll release multiple years. I don't know how many years, and -- but I'll be happy to do that.
Let me tell you, I know there are some who are very anxious to see if they can't make it more difficult for a campaign to be successful. I know the Democrats want to go after the fact that I've been successful. I -- I'm not going to apologize for being successful.
And I'm not -- I'm not suggesting -- I'm not suggesting these people are -- are doing that, but I know the Democrats will go after me on that basis and that's why I want to release these things all at the same time. And -- and I -- you know, my -- my dad, as you know, born in Mexico, poor, didn't get a college degree, became head of a car company. I could have stayed in Detroit like him and gotten pulled up in a car company.
I went off on my own. I didn't inherit money from my parents. What I have I earned. I worked hard, the American way, and...
... I'm going to be able -- I'm going to be able to talk to President Obama in a way no one else can that's in this race right now, about how the free economy works, what it takes to put Americans back to work, and make sure he understands that this divisiveness, of dividing Americans between 99 and one is dangerous. We are one nation under God.
KING: You've raised the topic of putting America back to work. I think we're ready for another question from our audience. Am I right?
Not quite yet. All right. So let's stay up here for a second.
Let's move -- you mentioned putting America back to work. Let's talk about something: Apple Computer. Apple computer is a breathtakingly important American company.
Senator Santorum, it's one of the most respected companies in the country. I've handed it off, but I carry Apple products to do my work every day. It employs about 500,000 people in China. It is based in the United States, has some employees here, about 40-something thousand, I think 46,000. Most of them in retail stores and at the headquarters. Five hundred thousand of them are in China.
As a president of the United States, what do you do about that?
SANTORUM: I'm the only person on this stage that will do something about it. I've got a specific plan in place that -- that I've put out there, called the Made in the USA Plan, for exactly these kinds of companies that have great technology and then go somewhere else to make them because America is uncompetitive.
And that's why we have to cut the corporate tax to zero for all corporations who manufacture and process in this country. People have said, "Well, why are you doing it for corporations and only cutting it in half?" which I do, to 17.5 percent for the rest. It's because the local pharmacy's not going to move to China. They're not going to -- the jobs that we're losing are jobs that we have to compete with other countries, and those are manufacturing jobs.
The reason they're going there is not because our -- our -- our workers or our management in this country are not productive. We have great productivity gains. It's amazing the transformation that has been made in the last decade or two about our manufacturing processing here. It is simply government getting in the way.
None of these folks do anything. I do dramatic things that send a signal: Apple, you want -- you -- you have all those employees over there, you make all those profits over there, if you want to bring that money back, right now you pay a 35 percent tax. Under our plan, if you bring it back and invest it in plant and equipment here in Charleston, you pay nothing. You put that money to work. If you invest it, you pay nothing.
It's a powerful incentive. You throw on top of that the energy policy that we put out there to revitalize the energy sector. You -- which will create -- again, manufacturing, energy cost is a big deal. So we have an energy piece.
We also a piece having to do with regulations. The Obama administration has promulgated two and a half times the number of regulations that cost American businesses over $100 million a year. Two and a half time the last 16 years of presidents.
This president is putting a burden on manufacturers and business. It's the reason they're not -- we're not making things here. I'll repeal every single one of those regulations on day one.
KING: Congressman Paul, how do you revive made in America?
PAUL: You have to create the right conditions to bring these companies back and they have to bring their capital back and should be taxed.
But Apple's a great company, but the way you asked the question, it infers that because there's a bunch of workers overseas it hasn't benefited a lot of people here. The consumers obviously have been benefited by a good company well run. But obviously there's a lot of employees with Apple in this country as well.
I don't think that's the number that you have to be concerned about. A lot of people worry about us buying and money going overseas. But if you send money to China, let's say they're paying wages other there and we send dollars over there, they don't put the dollars in a shoe box. They have to spend those dollars.
Unfortunately, they're buying our debt and perpetuating our consumerism here and our debt here. But immediately there's a benefit to us because those dollars come back.
But also when you get products, if they're buying products cheaper over there, let's say the computer cost $100 instead of $1,000. Well, the person's just saved $900. That helps the economy. That $900 stays in that person's pocket. So whether it's shoes or a computer.
So we shouldn't be frightened about trade or sending money on. But we have to look at the reason why they're doing this. I mean, even the car companies, there's obviously a problem with car companies here. They're in bigger trouble. We had to bail them out.
But there are foreign companies that build cars in this country and they make a living out of it. So it's more complex than that. But we have to do whatever we can.
I think the -- I think the -- the union problem, the right to work states, and of course I've chided Senator Santorum on this...
... because he has voted, you know, against right to work. But we have to change these conditions to invite people back. But believe me, the regulations and the fact that we are the issuer of the reserve currency of the world is a real temporary blessing for us because it's easy for us to export our money. That's unfortunately our greatest export and they're still taking our money. Soon, though, they're going to quit and this whole ball game is going to end and we better get prepared for it.
KING: He mentioned you, Senator Santorum. Go ahead, quickly.
SANTORUM: Congressman Paul knows because we've talked about this before. I've already signed a pledge and said I would sign a national right to work bill. And when I was a senator from Pennsylvania, which is a state that is not a right to work state, the state made a decision not to be right to work. And I wasn't going to go to Washington and overturn that from the federal government and do that to the state.
That's a very different position. KING: Quickly, sir.
PAUL: Yes, the response should be -- yes, I understand that, that's the way politics works. You voted the way you thought --
SANTORUM: Representative government works.
KING: Yes, for your state. But, as president, are you going to represent South Carolina or Pennsylvania? That's really the question.
SANTORUM: Well, maybe you didn't hear what I said. I said I would support a national right to work law and sign it into law, and would support and advocate for one.
KING: Let's continue the economic conversation with some input from a question from Twitter. If you look up here you can see it, CNNDebate.
"What is your take on SOPA and how do you believe it affects Americans?"
For those who have not been following it, SOPA is the Stop Online Piracy Act, a crackdown on Internet piracy, which is clearly a problem. But opponents say it's censorship. Full disclosure, our parent company, Time Warner, says we need a law like this because some of its products, movies, programming, and the like, are being ripped off online.
Let me start with you, Mr. Speaker. There's two competing ends, two engines, even, of our economy here at on this.
How do you deal with it?
GINGRICH: Well, you're asking a conservative about the economic interests of Hollywood.
GINGRICH: And I'm weighing it. I'm weighing it. I'm not rushing in. I'm trying to think through all of the many fond left- wing people who are so eager to protect.
On the other hand, you have virtually everybody who is technologically advanced, including Google and YouTube and Facebook and all the folks who say this is going to totally mess up the Internet. And the bill in its current form is written really badly and leads to a range of censorship that is totally unacceptable.
Well, I favor freedom. And I think that if you -- I think we have a patent office, we have copyright law. If a company finds that it has genuinely been infringed upon, it has the right to sue. But the idea that we're going to preemptively have the government start censoring the Internet on behalf of giant corporations, economic interests, strikes me as exactly the wrong thing to do. (APPLAUSE)
KING: Mr. Speaker, Governor Romney, these companies complain -- some of them are based in Hollywood, not all of them are -- that their software, that their publishing, that their movies, that their shows are being ripped off.
ROMNEY: I think he got it just about right. The truth of the matter is that the law, as written, is far too intrusive, far too expensive, far too threatening, the freedom of speech and movement of information across the Internet. It would have a potentially depressing impact on one of the fastest growing industries in America, which is the Internet, and all those industries connected to it.
At the same time, we care very deeply about intellectual content that's going across the Internet. And if we can find a way to very narrowly, through our current laws, go after those people who are pirating, particularly those from off shore, we'll do that.
But a very broad law which gives the government the power to start stepping into the Internet and saying who can pass what to whom, I think that's a mistake. And so I'd say no, I'm standing for freedom.
KING: I mean, it's a big issue in the country right now.
Congressman Paul and Senator Santorum, your views on this one quickly.
PAUL: I was the first Republican to sign on with a host of Democrats to oppose this law. And we have worked --
PAUL: We have had a concerted effort, and I feel like we're making achievement. This bill is not going to pass. But watch out for the next one.
And I am pleased that the attitude has sort of mellowed up here, because the Republicans unfortunately have been on the wrong side of this issue. And this is a good example on why it's good to have somebody that can look at civil liberties and work with coalitions and bring people together. Freedom and the Constitution bring factions together. I think this is a good example.
KING: Those who support the law, Senator, argue tens of thousands of jobs are at stake.
SANTORUM: I don't support this law. And I agree with everybody up here that is goes too far. But I will not agree with everybody up here that there isn't something that can and should be done to protect the intellectual property rights of people. The Internet is not a free zone where anybody can do anything they want to do and trample the rights of other people, and particularly when we're talking about -- in this case, we're talking about entities offshore that are doing so, that are pirating things. So, the idea that the government -- that you have businesses in this country, and that the government has no role to try to protect the intellectual property of people who have those rights in this country from people overseas pirating them and then selling them back into this country, it's great.
I mean, I'm for free, but I'm not for people abusing the law. And that's what's happening right now, and I think something proper should be done. I agree this goes too far.
But the idea that, you know, anything goes on the Internet, where did that come from? Where in America does it say that anything goes? We have laws, and we respect the law. And the rule of law is an important thing, and property rights should be respected.
KING: All right.
Gentlemen, I want to thank you. I'll ask our audience -- applaud if you wish. Stand by one second. We'll take one more break.
Much more of our Southern Republican Presidential Debate to come, including this question: After months of campaigning, if these candidates could do one thing over, what would it be?
KING: I'm John King. We're live in Charleston, South Carolina, and this is the CNN Southern Republican Presidential Debate. Many of you are watching online, commenting on Twitter, Facebook and at CNN.com.
When we come back, we'll ask the four candidates for president this question: After months and months of campaigning, if you could do one thing over, what would it be? Stay with us.
KING: Welcome back to the Southern Republican Presidential Debate. I'm John King. We're live in Charleston, South Carolina. A lot more issues to wander through tonight.
But I just want to take this moment. After months and months of campaigning, maybe this is fun; maybe it isn't.
Speaker Gingrich, I want to start with you. You're at this for months and you're out there. If there's one thing, just one thing in this campaign you could do over, what would it be?
GINGRICH: I would skip the opening three months where I hired regular consultants and tried to figure how to be a normal candidate. And I would just go straight to being a big ideas, big solutions, Internet-based campaign from day one.
Just didn't work. I mean, it's not who I am. I'm not capable of being a sort of traditional candidate. I'm a very ideal-oriented candidate and I think the Internet makes it possible to create a momentum of ideas that's very, very exciting.
KING: Governor Romney?
ROMNEY: Well, I would have worked to get 25 more votes in Iowa, that's for sure.
And -- well, let's see. I guess -- I guess I also would go back and take every moment I spent talking about one of the guys on the stage and spent that time talking about Barack Obama because...
... the -- the truth is that -- that Barack Obama is just way over his head and he's taking our country down a path that is very dangerous. He's making us more and more like a European social welfare state. He's making us an entitlement society. He's taking away the rights of our citizens. He believes government should run this country.
Look, the right course for America is to return to our fundamental principles, and I would be talking about that more, and probably about my colleagues less because frankly, any one of them would be a better president than the one we've got.
SANTORUM: I just thought about that, and you know what? I wouldn't a change a thing. It's -- for me to be standing here in the final four is about as amazing a thing that I could have ever conceived of happening; someone who had no money; who lost his last race; who everyone basically ignored as I traveled around South Carolina, Iowa and -- and New Hampshire and just talked to people. A town hall meeting -- after 700 town hall meetings, just going around.
And it proved that good ideas and hard work still pay off in America and it just was an affirmation to me of the great process that we have.
KING: Congressman? PAUL: I can't -- I can't think of any one thing that I would do differently, but I would continue to do what I'm always trying to do. One thing that I believe about a free society is it provides the opportunity for us to work for our own virtue and excellence. And in campaigning, I think I can still learn a lot about becoming a better deliverer of a message.
And the conviction I have that I think if I spoke a little slower and maybe more conviction, that I could do a better job. So I think in general, I could -- I will continue to work on delivering a message which I think is a great message.
KING: All right, gentlemen. Thank you.
Let's get back to our issues discussion and let's begin with a question down in our audience.
QUESTION: Hi. I would like to ask on the issue of amnesty of the illegal aliens, would you -- how would you secure that the American citizens would get -- keep the jobs in line first for them?
KING: Mr. Speaker, let's start with you on that. She mentioned the word "amnesty." You have explained your position in this campaign. And as you know, some conservatives have said, "No, Mr. Speaker, you say you can't deport maybe it's 10 million, 11 million, some people say as high as 20 million people illegally in this country. You say it's unrealistic to deport them all. So some would have to be given a path to legal status."
And as you know, many conservatives say, "No, that's amnesty, Mr. Speaker."
GINGRICH: Right. What I say, we'll start with I think you have to first of all control the border. I don't think you can pass a comprehensive bill because nobody trusts the government. So first, you control the border. We have a bill that would have it controlled by January 1, 2014. And I'm prepared both to waive all federal regulations to get it built and controlled by 2014 and I'm prepared to move up to half the people who work for Homeland Security -- about 20,000 -- they have 23,000 employees in Washington. I'd be prepared to move half of them to Texas, Arizona and New Mexico if that's what it took to control the border.
GINGRICH: Second, I favor English as the official language of government. And I think that creates a continuity.
GINGRICH: Third, I would actually modernize the legal system of visas, because currently we make it too difficult to come here legally and too easy to come here illegally.
(APPLAUSE) GINGRICH: Fourth, I would make it much easier to deport people. So if you are a non-citizen who belonged, say, to MS-13, an El Salvadorian gang, we should be able to get rid of you in two weeks, not two years. And we should have a much easier deportation.
Fifth, I favor a guest worker program. And I would outsource it to American Express, Visa or MasterCard, because they can run it without fraud and the federal government's hopeless. So you want a system that is accurate and that is anti-fraud, which leads you then to be able to say to private employers, if you hire somebody who's illegal, we're going to have an enormous economic sanction, because there will be no excuse once you have a guest worker program that's legal.
Then you get down to the question of people who are already here. I believe in what I just described most of them will go home.
The one group I signaled out -- and we do have a lively debate on this up here. There are people who have been here 25 years. They've been working. They've been paying their bills.
They're married. They have children. They may have grandchildren. They may be in your church.
Now, I don't think we're going to deport grandmothers and grandfathers who have 25 years of networking and relationships in a community. So I've suggested a World War II-style draft board where local citizens would review the applications. You could only apply if you proved that you were financially responsible, you proved you had genuine family ties, and you had an American family sponsor you.
You still wouldn't get amnesty. You wouldn't get citizenship. You would get a residency permit.
In order to apply for a citizenship, you would have to go back to your own country and get in line behind everybody else and be processed as a person from that country. But I think this is a doable, solvable, practical solution. And I think trying to deport grandmothers and grandfathers will never pass the Congress and would never be accepted by the American people.
KING: Governor Romney, is that the doable, practical solution?
ROMNEY: You know, the issue of illegal immigration is relatively straightforward compared to the tough issues we face, issues like how we're going to compete with China as it grows a military which is of extraordinary scale and a navy of that scale; how we're going to deal with radical violent jihadists; Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, making sure they're solvent. We've got real challenges that are tough. This one is not tough.
You build a fence. You have enough border patrol agents to secure the fence. And you also have a system of giving to people who come here legally an identification card, and you expect employers and insist that employers check that card before they hire someone.
If they don't check the card, if they don't run it through the U.S. database and get an instant response from the government or from MasterCard, Visa, American Express, or whomever, then those employers are going to get severely sanctioned. If you do that, we solve the problem of illegal immigration.
And with regards to those that have come here illegally now, we're not going to round them all up and deport them, but we're also not going to give them a preferential pathway to become permanent residents or citizens. They need to go back home, apply for citizenship, apply for permanent residency, like everyone else. Coming here illegally should not give you an advantage being able to become a permanent resident of the United States.
KING: Do you have the same view, Senator?
SANTORUM: Well, I come at it from -- as being the son of an immigrant. And my grandfather came to this country and brought my dad when he was 7 years old. And that's the story that I love and am familiar with, and believe in my heart of hearts that immigration is -- people who want to come to this country and be Americans is really the continuing infusion of freedom and enthusiasm for our country. But when you come here illegally, the first act you take is to break our law, that's a different story.
And we have two folks here, both Governor Romney and Speaker Gingrich. Mitt Romney has a position now that people have to go home. But as of just a few years ago, he said that there could be a pathway to citizenship. He's repeatedly said that.
Now he's changed his position. I understand that. He's done that on a couple of occasions.
And you have Speaker Gingrich, who believes there needs to be a legal pathway. That's where President Obama's position is.
Again, just like health care, we need a clear contrast, someone who can say, look, I have always been for making sure that the law is enforced and enforced fairly. I agree for people who have been here 25 years and maybe have to be separated from their family if they were picked up and deported, but my father grieved for his father when he came to this country and lived here five years.