Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Special Coverage: Jerry Sandusky Convicted
Aired June 22, 2012 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It is now 11:00 in the East Coast of the United States. I want to bring you up to date on all of the breaking news this evening.
Former Penn State assistance coach Jerry Sandusky lead from a central Pennsylvania courthouse in handcuffs. These are the images we saw for the first time about 20 or so minutes ago.
Their lead defense attorney Joe Amendola said he would be shocked if jurors acquitted his client on all the charges. He had said earlier today. In fact, they convicted Sandusky on almost every one. Forty- five of the 48 counts he was charged with.
Sentencing could come anytime in the next 90 days. Now if the verdict stands, this man who earned and betray the trust of so many children, as Jeff Toobin said, will likely die in prison.
As we said, sentencing will be within 90 days. We have a number of legal analysts who are joining us, Mark Geragos, from the defense side, former prosecutor Jeff Toobin, Sunny Hostin as well, Marcia Clark as well.
We have reporters Jason Carroll, Susan Candiotti, all of whom have been covering this trial from the beginning. But there you see Jerry Sandusky in a police car about to be taken off to local jail where the rest of his life, as we said, his new life has begun, his new life in confinement.
Momentarily we expect to speak to an attorney for at least one of the victims who testified in this trial. There were 10 alleged victims, eight of whom we heard the testimony of in this relatively short trial, also relatively short deliberations. Twenty-one hours for some 48 counts in all.
We had a jury of seven women, five men. We are not going to be hearing from any of the jurors tonight. The jurors were earlier -- while all this has been going on outside the courthouse, we understand the jurors have been receiving instructions from the judge who has told them, according to reports, not to speak to any reporters tonight.
Do we have Justine?
Joining me now is Justine Andronici.
JUSTINE ANDRONICI, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM 3 AND 7: Hi.
COOPER: Attorney for victims three as well as seven.
Justine, thank you very much for being with us. First of all have you talked to your clients tonight and if so what did they feel about this conviction?
ANDRONICI: Absolutely. The very first calls I made this evening were to the two clients that I represent that did testify in the trial and they were greatly relieved, almost in disbelief. I think. One of them said thank god he's in jail. And the other one expressed sentiments that it was a long time coming. And both of them feel very, very good tonight.
COOPER: How was testifying for them? Because clearly, the defense was trying to -- for a number of the accusers, trying to suggest that they had a monetary motive or that their stories had been somehow coached by police or that there had been some sort of collusion --
COOPER: -- of the stories of the victims. How was the experience for victims number three and seven?
ANDRONICI: I can tell you that the experience was a difficult one. You know, as I think you may know, it's very difficult for adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse to come forward under any circumstances but to come forward and be contacted and reluctantly come forward and then have to disclose what has occurred on such a public -- in such a public way, extremely difficult for both of them. But they did so because they believed it was the right thing to do and they wanted to tell the truth.
COOPER: And what is next for them? I mean, will there be -- will there be civil suits continuing on? What -- how do they move forward now?
ANDRONICI: There -- well, I can tell you that what they've talked to me about and what we've talked about is that they want to get back to their lives and begin to continue the process of healing from what has happened. This has been extremely stressful for them. In terms of the next phase of this, with respect to civil suits, I have no doubt that we're going to see some of those in these cases.
The facts are still developing on those issues and we still don't know everything that I think we will know about who knew about this and what could have been done sooner. So we learned a lot in the trial and we're learning still more every day about the way that this happened. And how Jerry Sandusky was allowed to continue to abuse children for years.
COOPER: Anyone who is guilty of 45 counts of child sexual abuse like this, I think it's fair to describe them as a monster, as a predator. Do you believe -- I mean you watched Jerry Sandusky closely through this trial. Do you believe he knows he's guilty? I mean do you believe he deep down knows he did something wrong?
ANDRONICI: You know, I can't -- I can't climb inside his head and understand what motivates him, what he thinks. What I can tell you is that the victims know that he did something wrong and the community knows that he did something wrong, and this jury heard what the victims had to say and they know that he did something very, very wrong.
The resounding message from this jury finding guilt on every single victim charged in this case is crystal clear. And I personally believe that this verdict tonight is attributable to the incredible courage of the victims who have come forward. They did so under extraordinary circumstances.
And I think we all owe them a great deal of gratitude for helping the public and the community better understand this issue and the challenges faced by survivors. And I really -- I just can't tell you how proud I am to have the opportunity to work with these inspiring, inspiring men.
COOPER: Well, there have been so many people throughout this country and throughout this world who have been abused in this manner by people who were trusted, and who have never spoken out about it. And I think your clients give strength to those to perhaps come forward or at least come forward in their own life and deal with this in a way that allows them some peace and some ability to build a new life.
So I hope you pass that along and our thanks and everybody's thanks should go to these -- as you said, these brave young men who came forward.
So, Justine, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you.
ANDRONICI: Thank you, thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break. We have been live now for more than an hour. So we got to get a quick break in. When we come back we'll talk to lead defense attorney Joe Amendola and others. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE AMENDOLA, SANDUSKY ATTORNEYS: The Sandusky family is very disappointed obviously by the verdict of the jury, but we respect their verdict. You may recall for those of you who have been with this case from the beginning that we said that we had a tidal wave of public opinion against Jerry Sandusky and the charges filed against him.
That he had been determined to be guilty by the public and the media from the very outset of the charges. And that we had an uphill battle. I used the analogy that we were attempting to climb Mount Everest from the bottom of the mountain. Well, obviously we didn't make it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, good evening. We continue to cover the breaking news. Former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky convicted on 45 of 48 counts of child sex abuse. We are waiting to hear from his lead attorney Joe Amendola. We're going to talk to him live. Right now I want to go to Jason Carroll who has been covering this trial from the beginning. Was in the courtroom when the verdict was read.
And Jason, explain just what you saw as the verdict was read in terms of the reaction by the Sandusky family.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was watching very closely. I especially wanted to see the reaction on Dottie Sandusky's face. And as the guilt verdict started to be read, she just started to blink repeatedly over and over, looking straight ahead. Sitting behind her is her adopted son Jonathan. And he seemed to be overcome, Anderson, he put his head in his hands and started shaking his head. And then at another point he reached forward, put his hands on the bench.
Sitting next to Dottie Sandusky, her adopted daughter, Kara. And she also was just looking very straight ahead, not showing very much emotion and that's very different from what I saw from victim number six who was sitting to my left. He was there with members of his family. And they've all leaned forward after the guilty verdicts were read and began to hug each other.
So there is a vast difference between the two -- between the two families. But of course you also wanted to see what the reaction was of Jerry Sandusky, the man himself. And as the verdicts were read, he looked ahead, he was respectful, he said no words, he got up and was escorted from the courtroom.
And you have to wonder if perhaps he was in some ways prepared for this. I mean Joe Amendola told me himself that he told Jerry Sandusky that t there was a very strong chance that he would be convicted. This was a conversation that they had long ago. And in fact, Joe Amendola told me that he had discussed with him the possibility of having some sort of an appeal.
Let me bring him in now. This is Joe Amendola. This is happening live so we're going to bring in some photographers to get him -- to get him hooked up.
How are you, Joe?
AMENDOLA: A cheat sheet.
CARROLL: No, that's my cheat sheet. That's my cheat sheet. But we're going to get you hooked up now, Joe. You're going to be on with Anderson Cooper.
AMENDOLA: Well, who? Is it somebody cute?
CARROLL: It's Anderson Cooper. And he always has a sense of humor, Anderson. That's just how Joe is.
AMENDOLA: Come on, Anderson. He knows I love you.
CARROLL: All right. I'm going to step out of here and I'm going to step in, you're with Anderson Cooper. You'll be live as we get you hooked up here.
AMENDOLA: Keep me online now --
CARROLL: But as you're getting hooked up here, and just before you get a chance to get Anderson to talk to you, give us a sense of how your client, what Jerry Sandusky said to you --
AMENDOLA: Let's test the sound because with all this noise. Can you hear? Don't hear anything.
COOPER: Joe, it's Anderson Cooper. Can you hear me?
AMENDOLA: I can, Anderson. How are you?
COOPER: Joe, it's Anderson -- great. I'm good.
COOPER: To Jason's question, did Jerry Sandusky say anything to you after the verdict was read?
AMENDOLA: No, he really didn't. He looked at me and obviously he was distraught and disappointed but he didn't say anything verbally.
COOPER: What happens to him now? We saw him being led out in handcuffs, put in a police car, he goes off to I guess a jail. We're told that sentencing will be any time within 90 days. What -- what do you do tomorrow? What is the next process?
AMENDOLA: Well, tomorrow I gather my wits and we start thinking about sentencing because that's the next step and start planning our appeal issues. We'll have to get a transcript of the trial and then we'll decide how we're going to proceed after sentencing. The sentencing probably, Anderson, will take place in September.
COOPER: You said, and I talked to one of your co-counsels, that you believe there were a number of issues that on appeal you may be able to have some sort of a case for. But no matter what you used to appeal, I mean, do you really believe you have enough that could actually overturn 45 counts against Jerry Sandusky?
AMENDOLA: Well, yes. Because if you went on one of the appeal issues, everything probably falls. So all we have to do is convince an appellate court that one of the issues that we will raise is worthy of a reversal, and if there's a reversal, everything comes back. It doesn't matter .could be 100 counts and it would all still come back if an appeal is granted and a higher court determines that we had a valid issue.
COOPER: Did you want your client to try to go for some sort of plea agreement?
AMENDOLA: No. As a matter of fact, Jerry Sandusky never considered a plea agreement. He always -- he always maintained his innocence. And that's something that's important. That' something that's important for every one to understand. For better or for worse, none of us were there when any of these things happened, but he always maintained that he was innocent.
COOPER: The discussion about whether or not he was going to testify, where did you stand on that? I assume you did not want him to testify.
AMENDOLA: Well, what happened, he intended to testify. He always wanted to testify and tell his side of the story. And what happened was, late last week on a Thursday afternoon, the commonwealth indicated it might have additional information it wanted to present before it closed, we didn't know what it was. Later that evening, we received a call from the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth attorney indicated that Matt Sandusky had talked to them and indicated that Jerry had abused him.
At that point I objected to the surprise and explained to the judge, the judge was involved in the conference, that we had always, we had always intended Jerry to testify. This tremendously undercut our defense, placed us in a really bad situation since I had promised the jury that Jerry would testify.
So the next day the Commonwealth alerted me to the fact that it had thought about its issue with Matt Sandusky and would not call Matt in its case in chief. Meaning it would rest without calling him. But it reserved the right to call him in rebuttal. That put us in a position of trying to decide if there was some way we could call Jerry Sandusky as a witness and Jerry could testify without triggering Matt's testimony in rebuttal.
We decided we could. It was too risky and we also decided that if Jerry testified and then Matt testified, regardless of the fact that not only Jerry but Dottie and the other five siblings of Matt's all indicated that Matt would be lying, that it would be absolutely catastrophic with this jury to hear Matt come in following Jerry's testimony, and say Jerry abused him, too.
At the last moment, it really literally was the last moment, last Wednesday, this Wednesday morning, a couple of days ago, that Jerry finally decided he would not testify and take his attorney's advice. But that's how that developed. He always wanted to testify -- Anderson.
COOPER: And had you intended to have Matt Sandusky testify on behalf of his adopted father?
AMENDOLA: Absolutely. Matt had testified at a grand jury proceeding and defended his father and said no abuse had ever occurred even though the commonwealth attorneys grilled him about Jerry's abuse of him as a child. He denied it. He left that proceeding said he was so angry and retained private counsel and actually wanted to release a press release to the media and to the public explaining that the commonwealth had pressured him into saying his dad had abused him and that was not the case.
And he was very angry about their efforts to do so. He also indicated he would be a witness on Jerry's behalf at trial right up until the trial and in fact the first day of trial sat with his family. And according to family and according to family member stop. That's one of the commonwealth witnesses who is testifying about abuse Indicating that it was ridiculous what the individual is alleging. So yes, we always intend them after --
AMENDOLA: Do you know what changed? Pardon me?
COOPER: Do you know what changed? I mean he was there the first day of the trial. Do you know what changed in Matt Sandusky's mind? I mean was that --
AMENDOLA: The family tells us that Matt has had a history of mental health issues. Matt goes up and down. Matt has times when he loves somebody, at times he hates that person. The irony is the family tells me that Matt had stayed at his parents' house recently after an argument with his wife and Dottie Sandusky tells me that Matt and his current wife who's pregnant had asked Dottie to host a baby shower for within days of Matt doing what he did.
So the family was very perplexed, Anderson. But all the other five siblings, as well as Dottie who were prepared to testify to rebut the whatever he might have said. So we were prepared to handle it if it came forward.
So we were prepared to handle it if it came forward, but on the other hand, if we could have avoided him coming into play at all, we felt Jerry's best chance was proceeding with the defense that we presented.
COOPER: Joe Amendola, I know it's been a long day for you. I appreciate you talking to us tonight. Thank you.
AMENDOLA: Any time, Anderson. I watch you all the time.
COOPER: All right. Take care.
There were 10 accusers, of course, in this case, the jury returned convictions in the cases of all 10. Michael Boni, the lawyer for victim number one, joins us next.
COOPER: Welcome back. We continue our live breaking coverage in the verdict of the Jerry Sandusky trial. Forty-five counts -- 45 guilty counts, three non-guilty counts, 25 of them are felony counts, 14 first-degree felony counts. Maximum sentence for Jerry Sandusky, he's facing 442 years. We believe sentencing sometime in the next 90 days.
We received the statement from the Paterno family, they say, "Although we understand the task of healing is just beginning, today's verdict is an important milestone. The community owes a measure of gratitude to the jurors for their diligent service. Our thoughts and prayers continue with the victims and their families. It also bears pointing out that today actually is the five-month anniversary of Joe Paterno's death.
Michael Boni, the lawyer for victim number one, joins me now on the phone. Michael, it was really your client who first came forward and that's why it get the title victim number one. Have you talked to him tonight? How is he feeling?
MICHAEL BONI, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM 1: He's feeling elated, yes, Anderson. I got off the phone with my client about 15, 20 minutes ago. Unfortunately for him he has the night shift, he graduated high school a few weeks ago and already has a job, and so he's got to spend his evening doing security at a night shift. But he is elated, as is his mother, who was crying. She was with her family and they feel very, very empowered right now by this decision.
COOPER: I don't think a lot of people maybe can understand the strength that must have taken for your client to come forward and break his silence and allow frankly all the other victims to then break their silence. Because it was only after your client came forward and revealed what had happened to him that all the others began to come forward as well.
BONI: That's absolutely right. I know my client well. We've dined on a number of occasions, we've met on a number of occasions. And there is something within him, there is an inner strength within him that is belied by his frail frame, but he is -- there's something so powerful and strong in him and whatever it took to muster deep within him to tell his story is frankly the reason that we are all gathered around televisions around the country, maybe around the world, tonight, because of his coming out and telling his story about what this monster did to him.
COOPER: And to be going through this trial while -- you know, the preparation for the trial while you are, I assume, a senior in high school, I can't image how difficult that was. What was the process of actually testifying like for him? Because the defense, you know, as they did with a number of the victims, you know, tried to indicate, well, they're perhaps in it for the money, they all have attorneys, or many of them have attorneys, or they perhaps were coached by police or their stories or there was collusion among their stories.
How was testifying for your client?
BONI: Well, it was a daunting, daunting task for him. But I'll say this to give credit where it's due. The prosecution did a fantastic job preparing the witnesses and particularly the victims at trial. There were precious few questions that came out of left field that they were not prepared to respond to. They knew the questions were coming about when you got a lawyer and are you in this for the money. And do you know victim 9? Aren't you friends? Did you compare notes and all that?
They were very prepared for those very desperate and frankly offensive, offensive defenses. There was certainly -- it's preposterous to say that there is was any collusion. I mean my client came out first without knowing any of the other victims. And we didn't have a lawyer until November of last year when he was overwhelmed by the press. COOPER: I talked to a supporter of Jerry Sandusky's, I believe her name is Joyce Porter, who actually testified. And she said well, it seemed like a number of the victims changed their stories over time. I talked to a number of experts in child sex abuse who say it's not uncommon for victims, particularly young victim to -- have to kind of over time reveal the true horror of what they went through.
To those who -- my question, if you client changed your story and if so why? What do you say?
BONI: Yes, the answer is simple. It is -- it fits the textbook pattern of what victims of sexual abuse go through. It is extreme shame, fear and embarrassment. And it's practically impossible for those victims to tell the story full on from beginning to end. They tend to roll it out in phases because of how painful it is hearing what comes out of their mouth. They tend to downplay it in the beginning, and as time goes on and counseling takes root, it took months and months and months for my client's counselor to gain the trust of my client.
They developed a very powerful, healthy relationship, and with the assistance of the counselor, he was able to finally come out and tell the -- you know, the full story of what happened to him. But that took a long time.
COOPER: Well, Michael Boni, I know it has been a long road and it will continue to be for you and your client. I appreciate you talking to us tonight. And certainly we wish him and his family the best.
We heard from victim number six's mother tonight who was quoted as saying nobody wins. We've all lost. Our legal panel weighs in next. We have Jeff Toobin, Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, Sunny Hostin, all on tonight's decisive verdict.
We'll be right back.
COOPER: This is the moment when we and the world heard the verdict, all the charge and counts against Jerry Sandusky, 45 counts guilty, three counts not guilty. Again the crowd outside the courtroom erupting into applause, so many people running out, reporters, courtroom observers, to try to get the word out of exactly what they saw and we heard from Jason Carroll just a short time ago what he saw, the reaction of the Sandusky family.
Tonight Jerry Sandusky leaves court a convicted serial sexual abuser. Really a monster. I want to bring in our legal panel, criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos. On the phone, senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, also on the former and former L.A. deputy district attorney Marcia Clark. And a New York legal analyst Sunny Hostin.
Mark Geragos, let's begin with you. Your thoughts upon what you've witnessed over the last hour and a half or so since we got the verdict?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't know. I mean there's so many kind of conflicting thoughts that you have as you watch this. It's horrible what's happened to that community at Penn State. I mean awful what they've been through. You think about Joe Paterno and that statement that was released and then today ironically being the five- month anniversary of his death, which I think probably hastened by this whole thing.
You see that crowd kind of out there cheering, which I think, you know, I know some people think that's an emotional or cathartic release that any time you have something like this, I mean, I think you had said, Anderson, it was one of the victims or lawyers had said there are no winners here. There are clearly no winners and the idea of cheering I think is just a little much.
You think about Joe Amendola getting there and I just feeling, I guess, overwhelmed by all of this and talking about just having such a fatalistic attitude about it, which is, you know, perplexing, I think, to some degree.
The whole thing I think is a microcosm of where we've reached today in these supersized media trials. And I think maybe the English have it right with the Contempt of Court Act. That at a certain point it these kinds of cases that it might be best to let these things be tried not under the glare of the media spotlight. It might be better to kind of delay everything and let these kinds of cases get tried the way that 99.999 percent of all criminal trials get tried. So I don't know. That's just me venting, I suppose.
COOPER: Well, I want to check in with our other legal analyst. I received a tweet from someone a few moments ago who said, stop referring to them as victims, they are -- they are survivors of this trial. And I think it's an interesting thing to point out. Of course we've been the term victim number six, victim number one, because that is how they've been referred to by the prosecution in court documents.
Sunny, your thoughts upon -- about the convictions and also what you've seen for the last hour and a half, the reaction to it.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Anderson, I used to try these cases. I tried and prosecuted child sex crimes and I think what is striking to me is that perhaps the good thing that comes out of this terrible tragedy of a serial child predator is that we are actually talking about it. Because it always struck me when I was prosecuting these cases is that they are just shrouded in shame.
People don't want to talk about it. They're shrouded in secrecy. And that is why many victims don't come forward. And so I think perhaps the fact that we're all talking about it, that people are cheering, that people are tweeting about it, perhaps is a good thing that comes from this. Because it did take extraordinary strength for these survivors of child sex abuse to come forward in a high-profile case in front of so many people in a courtroom and talk about these terrible things that happened to them.
And -- so I think, in some respects, I'm comforted that we are talking about this, this very important issue, because this is happening all over our country. One in six boys are victims of child sex abuse, one in three girls are victims of child sex abuse. And so we need to talk about this more.
COOPER: It's an important point. And the statistics, the numbers are startling and sickening, frankly, and I do think you're right. It's not something that's covered. It's so uncomfortable, people don't want to watch it on television. They'd literally turn the channel and understandably, but that doesn't help those who are trying to survive it and trying to get justice, not talking about it doesn't help.
Marcia, your thoughts tonight?
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER L.A. DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I agree with Sunny. I think that a great deal of good has been done by the coverage in this case. I don't know how else people could have responded to show their support for this verdict other than to cheer. Although I understand it feels so -- feels a little macabre. But you know, understand, Anderson, that we've seen so many trials go belly up. So there's also a cheer for the fact that the system works. That a case that had overwhelming evidence really did result in the correct verdict and I think they were happy with that.
I think also this case is very important. I'm glad it was reported and covered as much as it was, because it gives us -- I think it's will turn the tide. I think this will wind up having a great impact on others who have failed to come forward, who were fearful of reporting because they didn't think they believe -- the victims frequently do hide, the would-be reporters hide, because people don't want to believe them and reject their statements. I think this will give a real shot in the arm to these victims and I've been urging people on Twitter and on Facebook to report, report, come forward.
Because I think people are ready to believe that people in power aren't necessarily to be believed over the children who've been abused. And this is a case that stands for that so much more.
I wanted to add one more point. There's been a lot of talk about the possible reversal on appeal and I've been practicing appellate law for several years now. I can tell you that it's very, very rare to have a case reversed on appeal in general, but in specific when a case hinges on the credibility of witnesses as this one does, this is critical in this case, you didn't have physical evidence. You had primarily the credibility of these victims.
When a case hinges on credibility, it almost never gets reversed on appeal, because the court of appeal has to defer to the jurors. They defer to the jurors when it comes to a matter of credibility, and so they will say that the jurors made the call and that no error could be found harmful enough to say that the jurors would have made a different decision. And so it's very likely that even if errors are pointed out they'll be deemed harmless on appeal and the case will be affirmed.
So I just wanted to clear that up as well. But I think this is a very important day on so many fronts.
COOPER: Yes. Jeff Toobin is joining us as well -- as well on the phone. You know, Jeff, it is extraordinary. I was just talking to the attorney for victim number one and -- I guess I should say survivor number one -- to think that the phone to victim number one, I guess I should say survivor number one, this is a kid who recently graduated high school. So when he came forward, he was in high school.
Just the -- you know, the young age of this victim adding to the difficulty of coming forward and not realizing at the time, I assume, and according to the attorney, that there were other victims out there. So the strength for this young man to have come forward I find pretty extraordinary.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Indeed. And I just like to point out that there was another very important piece of news today which was Monsignor William Lynn in Philadelphia became the first senior Roman Catholic official to be convicted of covering up child abuse by priests.
And the Catholic Church in Philadelphia, and frankly, much else, many other places in the United States behave abominably in covering up and this -- the abuse and protecting priests. And Penn State behaves abominably in letting Jerry Sandusky prey on children.
You know we -- the thing that haunts me in this case is this awful scene that we've talked about so many times of Mike McQueary, the assistant coach, seeing Jerry Sandusky raping a little boy in the shower in 2002. Jerry Sandusky isn't arrested for another decade.
How many kids did he abuse in that decade because Penn State and senior people didn't do their jobs? And the Catholic Church and Penn State have a lot to answer for, and I'm glad Marcia and Sunny are optimistic and take some solace from today's verdict. But I don't. I see this as a story of failure, not success.
COOPER: Well, it's also incredible, Jeff, when you think that after initial suspicions and allegations had been raised about Sandusky, allegedly his privileges of use at athletic facilities at Penn State were to -- were to stop. He wasn't supposed to be able to bring children there, and yet that wasn't enforced. And he has still continued to bring children and shower with children, which again is just stunning.
TOOBIN: And he continued to run the Second Mile, which was entirely dedicated to the treatment, the supposed helping of children. So Jerry Sandusky devoted his life to being around young children. And, you know, I suspect we will never, ever know how many he abused. But the 10 in this case are certainly bad enough. And it just has to haunt us, how many people knew about this and didn't come forward. And the victims who suffered after that are haunted more than any of us.
COOPER: Marcia Clark, in your experience, a high-profile prisoner who has been convicted of child sexual abuse, are they in general population in prisons?
CLARK: No. Can't be. It's too dangerous and they in general try even when it's not a high profile molester, they try to sequester them in a separate place. There used to be separate we call them tanks for them. And I don't know that they have specific tanks for them today in prison, but they do try to keep them separate because they're in grave danger and I have had quite a few who have written to me, fearful of what's going to happen to them in custody. So they've been in custody.
CLARK: Be very careful. Be very careful of this guy.
COOPER: Marcia, we're joined by Tom Kline, attorney for victim number five, and survivor number five, he joins me now.
Tom, I assumed to talk to your client tonight. How was he doing? How does he feel about what happened?
TOM KLINE, attorney for victim # 5; I texted him, I've been on the grounds here. It's almost impossible, in fact it has been impossible to get a text signal out. He and I had come back and forth yesterday. We talked about how he's gotten through this with the support of his family, his girlfriend, his close friends.
He's a wonderful young man. He's tried to live a normal life threw this. This was a case, Anderson, like so many of these young men where the police showed up at their door. They didn't seek this out. They had these horrible memories literally buried in their soul and they came forward because they were literally forced to come forward. He viewed this as an obligation of citizenship. He still does. He anxiously awaited the verdict and as soon as I get done literally talking to you and a few others, I'm going to, I'm sure, talk to him.
COOPER: And how difficult was the trial? How difficult was getting up on that stand facing Jerry Sandusky?
KLINE: Well, I can tell you I saw every stitch of the testimony in this trial, including my client. He took the stand, it was very difficult. He told me so. He described to me how he took the stand as a victim of childhood abuse, now a young man leading a productive life and he came in, he sat down. He looked towards Mr. Sandusky and he told me that Mr. Sandusky was staring back him the entire time. There was an awkward moment during my client's testimony, which I think is illustrative of Mr. Sandusky himself.
There was a brief story in the warm-up to these horrible (INAUDIBLE) events that took place where my client was describing how he met Mr. Sandusky. He's a young man of Polish, Mr. Sandusky was playing a polish gangster in a skit and they engaged in a conversation about it.
Sandusky literally -- I saw this with my own eyes -- looked at my client almost adoringly. I thought it was awkward, odd, and I thought telling. I didn't see any of the same, any of the same towards his family. I thought the elephant in this room which could not escape this jury's attention was Dottie Sandusky and how there wasn't an inch of testimony, a millimeter of testimony about any affection or normal relations that he had with her or he had with his six children who were also absent as witnesses. COOPER: In terms of what happens now, the defense, I talked to Joe Amendola who was saying well, they're going to look at what the issues for appeal are and he feels about about things they can raise up on appeal.
Do you buy any of that? I mean do you -- do you worry about that at all?
KLINE: I don't worry about it a bit. I was here from the beginning to the end. I've been following every legal ruling and everything here.
Joe Amendola was on the courthouse steps retrying his case. His case was largely this was a conspiracy. That's not the case at all. The fact of the matter is that this man was guilty. The record from what I see clean and I would expect that he now spend the rest of his life in jail.
COOPER: We -- Tom Kline, I appreciate you being on with us tonight and our best to your client and his family.
We're going to take a quick break, we're going to continue to be live to the top of the hour. More from our panel, legal experts, just ahead.
COOPER: Well, justice was done tonight in the Jerry Sandusky child rape case. The jury spoke and spoke loudly convicting the former Penn State assistant coach and local one-time hero of 45 counts. Ten accusers are now in the eyes of the law ten survivors. Their allegations entirely vindicated.
Jason Carroll was inside the courtroom when the verdict came in. He joins us now.
Jason, I mean your thoughts, you've had some time to reflect, you've been covering this really from the beginning. All the aspects of this case, what really stands out to you tonight?
CARROLL: Well, a couple of things. You know, what I see is a vast difference from where we are now versus where we were as you remember, Anderson, several months ago. In the very beginning when the allegations first surfaced, there was such a sense of disbelief. How could something like this happen? How could allegations like this be connected to a man like Jerry Sandusky who was so well respected throughout the community. And then you gradually start to see things -- we saw things change.
You saw how then the folks from Penn State thought Penn State was being put on trial. People still really couldn't believe it, Anderson.
And then things started to shift, as more accusers came forward, as people in the community began to learn more and more about this case, their opinions started to change. And of course we got to where we are tonight where you heard that loud sort of -- round of applause when we came outside here, and everyone here in the community who gathered in front of the Center County courthouse erupted in applause when they heard the verdict.
But one thing really sticks with me, and that is the accusers, seeing them testify in court, Anderson was painful. It was painful to watch, as you saw these young men get up there and talk about very personal things, and perhaps victim number six's mother -- perhaps she said it best.
At the every one of tonight after all the guilty verdicts have been read and everyone sort of filed out of the courtroom and thee was there with the son and the family, she said, quote, Nobody Wins. We've all lost. And she -- and then she hugged her son and they hugged each other. That's what really resonates with me.
COOPER: You spoke to one of the victim -- one of the accusers after he testified. What did he talk to you about?
CARROLL: Well, oddly enough it was victim number six. And this young man, who is now a bible student, he was sexually assaulted by Jerry Sandusky in a shower at Penn State, inappropriately touched. And he was standing not far from where I'm standing right now. And strangely enough, Anderson, no one seemed to notice him just sort of standing on the side lines.
So we very delicately kind of walked up to him and I sort of asked him to share some of his feelings with me and what he couldn't get over was the overwhelming attention that had been brought to the case. Because he really wasn't paying attention and watching the news, just trying to stay away from it.
And he was really affected by that. And to him, he said the whole thing, everything that's happened to him, still just really didn't seem real. Ad so my impression was someone who is still trying to come to terms with something that had happened to him.
COOPER: Jason, you've been doing remarkable reporting through this entire process. I appreciate you joining us tonight or and staying out staying up with us. Jason Carroll, thank you very much from right outside the courtroom.
We're going to be right back. Our coverage continues.