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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Seattle Campus Shooting
Aired June 5, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us. We continue tonight with the breaking news. Gunshots, casualties on campus.
You're looking at live pictures of what began at about 3:30 p.m. this afternoon local time at Seattle Pacific University. A small liberal arts school with about 3300 students.
These are live pictures of the scene. Obviously, the entire area now is cordoned off. A lot of law enforcement, fire personnel, medics on the scene. At least four wounded we're told. Their conditions ranging from minor to life threatening. The suspected shooter is in custody.
Now it happened on the campus building called Otto Miller Hall. We're expecting to hear shortly from local authorities with all the details.
Randi Kaye has been monitoring all the late developments. She joins us now.
So, Randi, what do we know about what's going on?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we've been watching the feeds come in from our Seattle affiliate. And there's a whole lot to make sense of here. What we know is that, as you said, it took place at Seattle Pacific University which has about 4200 students. It's a Christian university.
Now up the stairs in that Otto Miller Hall we're told by our affiliate KCPQ that someone was there and they counted about 30 shotgun shells on the floor. Now they're saying that this may mean that the shooter did have time to reload. That's according to the affiliate. The affiliate also reported that when the shooter got to that building he seemed very, very agitated and he told a couple of people that he came across right away not to move.
Well, one of them did and according to the affiliate he shot that person in the eye. They said that one person was in very critical condition. We're not sure if it was that same person or possibly somebody else. Another person they did see walk out of the that Otto Miller Hall.
Also a teacher's assistant spoke with the affiliate, she said that they were told to go back inside. The university was on lockdown. She did hear gunshots and she told her students to sit quietly before they were evacuated there.
So once again, a very agitated shooter according to the affiliate. Shooting one person in the eye after that person moved after that person had been told not to do so.
COOPER: Right. Now I just want to caution to our viewers. Obviously these are very early reports. This occurred about an hour and a half ago and often in situation like these, the initial reports we get from people, from eyewitnesses, from ear witnesses often prove out to be -- prove to be contradictory, in some cases, flat-out wrong so I just want to qualify that. We're trying to be as cautious as we can in what we are reporting.
The fire department said that they had -- that they had brought four people, four casualties were being transported to hospital with a range of injuries.
Briana Clarke is joining us on the phone.
Briana, what are you hearing? What's the latest that you've gotten?
BRIANA CLARKE, EYEWITNESS: Unfortunately, as a student, I'm sure that I haven't heard as much as you have. You have heard across multiple channels of different people.
COOPER: Where are you, Briana? Actually, where have -- where were you when the shooting began, I should ask?
CLARKE: I was a couple classrooms down from where the shooting occurred.
COOPER: So what did you hear?
CLARKE: I heard two loud but muffled shots. What I believed were helium balloons popping. This is a science building and I thought an experiment was being conducted and so I ran out to join a classroom because I thought it was another one of my professors that was giving a demonstration and unfortunately I was actually coming across danger and who knew?
And so I walked into the hallway and saw a classmate of mine running frantically saying that someone had been shot and lockdown the building. And so I had to go back inside the classroom and tell the other students to conduct this as like if it were a test.
COOPER: When you heard the initial shots, you said you heard two shots initially?
COOPER: About how far away were you from the location of the gunshots? Do you know?
CLARKE: I believe only a couple classrooms down, about maybe three, four classrooms.
COOPER: And to your knowledge, did those shots occur in a hall or in another classroom?
CLARKE: I believe it was in the classroom. The time of day that it is, is during classroom period, not during a passing period and so I believe the suspect was probably after victims who were in class with him.
COOPER: You say the suspect was probably after victims but you don't know for a fact that this person was particularly targeting anybody, any specific people, do you?
CLARKE: Correct. We don't know whether it was someone from outside or inside that, you know, in other words, someone who was a pedestrian or someone that we knew as a class or a student.
CLARKE: I believe that it was someone who was a student.
COOPER: Why do you say you believe that?
CLARKE: Just because this is a quiet community, a Christian campus, and there's really no angst. You know, this is not something I would see someone, you know, victimize other people on this type of community. It's very quiet and away from the city. No one would really even know where this campus was even if they passed it. I suspect --
COOPER: There's about --
COOPER: There's about 4,000 students at the school.
COOPER: Are most of these students boarding there or are they day students?
CLARKE: Correct. Correct. So most of these are in the dorm and it's freshmen and sophomores that would be in the dorms really right across the street.
COOPER: OK. Now without -- I don't want you to give away your current location, but are you still in lockdown?
CLARKE: No. We were escorted thankfully about 10 minutes after hearing what I believe was a second round of shootings. We were escorted outside by two police officers out of the building across the street and that's where I still am watching to see if anymore of my old friends that are, unfortunately, injured.
COOPER: You said you heard two shootings initially. And then about -- then how long a space of time was there until the next round of shootings you said you heard?
CLARKE: I only believe about two minutes in between that. COOPER: So you heard two shots and then there were about two minutes
went by and then how many shots did you hear?
CLARKE: I would say probably about three more.
COOPER: And was that in the same location or was that in a different location to your knowledge?
CLARKE: The way that the school design of the building is, I wouldn't know whether the suspect had moved or not but I would say that the sound intensity was about the same.
COOPER: And then did you see the suspect apprehended by police? We're told the suspect is in police custody or were you --
CLARKE: I heard that -- I heard that the suspect was in custody but when I was escorted out, I saw a gentleman on the ground unconscious and so that's who I believed the suspect was.
COOPER: You saw somebody on the ground unconscious.
COOPER: And you believe -- what made you believe that person was a suspect?
CLARKE: Because there were bullet cases surrounding him.
COOPER: OK. But you don't believe that was perhaps one of the suspect's -- one of the people shot by the suspect?
CLARKE: It could have been. And either way I'm just as panicked.
CLARKE: You don't expect to see bullet casings around anyone. You know? Especially at this school.
COOPER: Of course.
Well, listen, Briana, I appreciate you talking to us. I know it's not easy and I appreciate you just letting know -- letting us know what you saw and I just stay safe. I wish you the best.
CLARKE: I appreciate that very much. Thank you.
COOPER: All right. Briana Clarke, a student there.
We're told now -- I'm just getting some new information that actually staff at the school disarmed the suspect apparently when he was reloading. Again, this is new information we've just received that staff apparently disarmed the suspect when he was reloading. Again this is very early information and just giving it to you as soon as I get it. A student, another student, Blake Oliveira, was also nearby.
Here's what he told CNN affiliate KIRO. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I'm joined by Blake Oliveira. He's an SPU student.
Blake, you were in an adjoining classroom from Otto Miller Hall. What did you hear?
BLAKE OLIVEIRA, EYEWITNESS: So in the middle class we just hear a muffled sound and a lot of people thought it was a gunshot and our teacher thought it was just a science experiment. So the person closest to the door, they look outside. They don't see anything but they come back in and they say, I think someone's been shot. So we turn off the lights. We lock the door. And we close the blinds.
And I was kind of scared for like a minute but after that passed, I was like, OK, just got to remain calm and me and another student we both had pipes waiting next to the door and we were listening to what was happening. And I heard someone yelling. I don't remember specifically the conversation but it sounds like a teacher trying to calm people down.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes.
OLIVEIRA: And I heard someone run by the door. And then a couple minutes later, that's when we heard -- I heard security voice in there. And they said we have a victim. And they're getting the paramedics. And --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And this is in a classroom right next to yours?
OLIVEIRA: Yes. It happened right outside the hall. I'll get to that. So, those were the biggest details and we waited a couple more minutes and then cops come in through another classroom which is connected to ours and they escorted us out. So I took off my sandals so I could run if I need to because sandals aren't very good. And I just saw piles of blood on the ground. Just scattered throughout the lobby. And I actually stepped in a puddle. I don't have any more blood on me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But you didn't fear for your life at any point?
OLIVEIRA: Only for about a minute then I was calm and actually one of the biggest things I thought was actually, like, a quote from the bible was just, Jesus died for everyone, and that's a great --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: OK. We broke up there in the transmission. This is a tweet from the Seattle Police Department. "Otto Miller building secure. Lone suspect entered building, shot four victims, began reloading, staff disarmed him. Gunman arrested."
Now early on there had been reports that the police believed there might be two suspects. Apparently that was confusion because, I guess, one of the person who disarmed the suspect was seen holding a gun. And that made people believe maybe there was a second gunman. But police now are saying there was just one suspect. That person is in custody. And that that person was disarmed by staff.
You also heard that student talking about being in a classroom and arming themselves with a pipe in case somebody -- somebody came in. There had been another initial report from a local affiliate that one of the people shot may have sprayed mace or a form of mace at the gunman. That has not been confirmed. We are still trying to wait -- to figure out those details.
And again, as I said before, a lot of times, you know, a lot of the details that come in and sort of drips and drabs initially, you know, it's based on eyewitness, it's based on ear witness. People hearing things who were hunkered down in classrooms so I just want to give that caveat with the information that we have.
We are anticipating a news conference from authorities to be taking place any minute. We're going to bring that to you live. We're going to take a short break and get you all the latest information when we come back.
COOPER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of breaking news. Gunshots on the campus of Seattle Pacific University, a Christian school, in Seattle. A student about 4,000 students on that campus. Four people wounded. Two of them said to be seriously wounded. They have been taken to medical facilities.
The shooter disarmed in custody of police. Disarmed interestingly enough apparently by staff. The shooter was -- said to have had a shotgun. One eyewitness we talked to heard two shots being fired in a classroom near where she was. And then a space of about two minutes and then further shots.
Apparently staff members were able to disarm this shooter while the shooter was said to be reloading.
A tweet sent out by the police department in Seattle is suggesting that students can gather on Gwinn Commons on the campus, and grief counselors will be available for students and staff. That message just for students and staff of the college.
Again, who the shooter is, the motive, we do not know at that point. The suspect is said to be in custody. Not sure what the condition of that suspect is. Campus areas still obviously all cordoned off. We are waiting to hear from local authorities and do anticipate a press conference at any moment.
Joining us on the phone is former New York detective Lou Palumbo.
Lou, appreciate you being with us. In a situation like, I mean, it's very interesting to hear that this shooter was apparently -- and again, these are early reports, was apparently disarmed by staff. What is the procedure for police responding to this? How quickly do
they actually move into a building where there's an active shooter?
LOU PALUMBO, FORMER NEW YORK DETECTIVE: They immediately move in to it. You know, the process or method with an active shooter is you have to engage him. You have to engage him immediately. And if necessary, to neutralize him so there is no hesitation. There's no thought process. It's all reflexive. As a result of training. They immediately enter these buildings or facilities regardless of condition.
COOPER: And obviously, a lot of that changed in the wake of Columbine. There was a lot of criticism during Columbine because at that point, you know, there wasn't a lot of experience with this. And police waited outside for certain amount of time while shootings were still going on. While they are trying to figure out. But it is a very complicated situation for police that, Lou, facing this.
There's conflicting reports, eyewitness, ear witness reports. Initially there were some reports about potentially two shooters involved, so the idea of moving in, it sounds logical but at the same time it's fraught with risk.
PALUMBO: Absolutely. I mean, that's unfortunately the role of a first responder, Anderson, I mean, it's the risk that they take, the risk they assume. There is no other tactic that they have decided is more effective to employ. If you have an active shooter, you've got to seek him out immediately if necessary to neutralize him. In this case they were fortunate enough that they were able to apprehend him which means we can now conduct an investigation to interview and interrogation of this individual or learn a little bit more about him and what drove this incident.
COOPER: Well, I've just gotten some very sad and tragic news. One victim has apparently died of their injuries received in the shooting. There had been reports of this over the last several minutes. We've been holding off actually saying anything. We wanted to be able to get it from multiple sources and independently confirm it, which we now have.
One victim has died. One person was being seen -- being life saving efforts on one person as they were being taken to the hospital. Three other shooting victims have also been taken to the hospital. We're still waiting for word on exactly their condition. And again, the shooter is said to be in custody.
In a case like this, though, Lou, I assume police have to really go across the whole campus and search every building that they can.
PALUMBO: Absolutely correct, Anderson. They get on, they scour the campus performing a number of tasks, they're creating crime scenes, they're searching for secondary devices possibly as those used in Columbine. Additional (INAUDIBLE). They assume nothing. They're safe until they conduct a very thorough inspection of the campus. And they're looking for just a number of denominators all at the same time. And then at the same time this is going on at the campus there are
already dispatching law enforcement agent to find out information about this individual from his home, from his family, from the computer, all different types of avenues that will tell a little bit more about who he was and what drove this.
COOPER: There are some reports, some -- some more tweet from the police department saying that they actually have recovered the vehicle that this shooter used. Obviously, that will be a source of information and be able to trace the registration, things like that. Eyewitnesses have been coming forward. This one describes the shooting scene. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like banging on the walls so that's when we all got scared and we went up, everyone went up to the front of the classroom and sat on the floor and then we started checking like our phones, social media and news and stuff, and that's how we found out what was going on, and then about 30 minutes later, the cops, the police came and unlocked the door and let us out and we met on the lobby and that's where it was like taped off.
We saw blood on the carpet, bullet shells, blood splatters on the wall. And then they kind of like checked our bags, pat us out and then let us out two by two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A student talking about what she witnessed.
Again, this occurred almost two hours ago on this campus and it is still a campus very much an active crime scene.
Randi Kaye is also with us, she's been monitoring this situation. There have been tweets coming from the Seattle Police Department.
Have you been learning anything new, Randi?
KAYE: I have, Anderson. You mentioned that vehicle. I could tell you from our affiliate KIRO they have been in touch with the source close to this investigation and they said that police have run a plate of the vehicle that was linked to the suspect and that plate came back to the parent of a student according to our affiliate there. They're not clear how that student obtained the vehicle.
Also, a source briefed on this shooting said that a second person did try to take the gun away from the shooter, which you had mentioned earlier, which they're now confirming is what caused the confusion with a number of suspects and then also of course that tweet from the Seattle Police Department saying that the suspect was disarmed by staff as he was trying to reload which you can just imagine as such a frightening scene.
But we know that SWAT did get to that building. The Otto Miller Hall there at Seattle Pacific University. They cleared the building, they were searching students and the campus actually put out a tweet, Anderson, posting class suspended. Do not come to campus. So certainly a very tense situation there still.
COOPER: And obviously, we are awaiting a press conference from local authorities. We hope to get a lot of information with that.
You know, Lou, it is -- it is actually interesting. I mean, we've heard now from one student who said that they were -- you know, they grabbed sort of pipes in their classroom in case somebody came in. Now we've heard that staff actually disarmed the shooter. I don't know if this is a kind of residue of the fact that this country has gotten used to seeing these kind of events, sadly. But that people are now kind of fighting back in a way.
I mean, confronting the shooter, actually taking the weapon from the shooter at a time the shooter was reloading. I'm not sure if, you know, who was able to do that but it's -- this is really one of the first times that we've heard about something like that.
PALUMBO: Yes, it is, Anderson. And maybe what it's telling us is that people are not prepared to be victims anymore or stand idly by as they're slaughtered. You know, they probably realize that they were within range of this weapon. They saw an opportunity. Either through malfunction or in this instance reloading. And they seized the opportunity.
This is just working spontaneously in their brains because as you mentioned Americans are becoming too accustomed to these types of events and subsequently we're now seeing a reaction to them. They're not going to stand by any longer and idly be slaughtered. So, you know, I have to say, I commend them. Quite risky and to be very candid, they may not have had much of an option, depending their proximity to the shooter.
They might have just realized this is the moment they had to seize to neutralize this individual and to their credit and their good fortune they were successful.
COOPER: Early reports -- and again, these are early reports indicating a shotgun was the weapon that the shooter used, at least one weapon. We don't know if there were more.
We're getting now information from the spokesperson for Harbor View Medical Center, where the four victims were taken. As we know, one of those victims has died. They are announcing that the victim that died again not using anybody's name was a young male who was in critical condition, and died shortly after arriving at the hospital. They say a 20-year-old female is undergoing surgery and is in critical condition right now. A 24-year-old male is in satisfactory condition and a 22-year-old male is also in satisfactory condition.
And Randi Kaye reporting what could be potentially a very important information. A vehicle that was recovered linked to the shooter, that traced the ownership of that vehicle and it was linked to the owner -- to a parent of a student at the school. Exactly what that means, if it means that the shooter was a student, we can't -- we can't assume that. But the vehicle apparently linked to the shooter belonged to a parent at the school.
Again, we are waiting a press conference. More information from local authorities. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Updating the news out of Seattle. One person has died, three others are wounded after a gunman opened fire at the Seattle Pacific University. The campus now secured, the shooter is in custody. We are awaiting a news conference from local authorities. It looks like it actually about to happen at any moment. We actually are also getting more details about who it was who may have apprehended this shooter. We're going to bring that to you. Let's just listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be answering questions at a time later this evening. Once we have more firm information, so we're going to start out with Captain Chris Fowler, the incident commander from the Seattle Police Department.
CAPT CHRIS FOWLER, SEATTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Earlier this afternoon, we had a young male enter Otto Miller Hall on the Seattle Pacific University campus, was armed with a shotgun. Walked into the building, into the foyer. Immediately confronted three victims and shot those three individuals. Two have life threatening injuries and one has minor injuries.
At that point the shooter began to reload his shotgun and a student that is the building monitor inside of the hall confronted the shooter. Was able to subdue the individual and once on the ground other students jumped on top of them and they were able to pin the shooter to the ground until police arrived.
The police did arrive just a few minutes later and were able to make entry, take the shooter into custody and were able to extract the victims while we began to set up an operation to go and secure the rest of the building.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did they pepper sprayed him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you know about the shooter at this time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I get your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Fowler. West Precinct Captain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fowler?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll be answering questions shortly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So today should have been a day of celebration at the end of the school year here at Seattle Pacific University instead it's a day of tragedy and of loss. Once again, the epidemic of gun violence has come to Seattle. The epidemic of gun violence that's haunting this nation.
I want to thank the first responders who responded so quickly, the police department, the fire department, the federal agencies, and I want to thank the students and the staff who responded so quickly. But friends, we have been here before, cafe racer, the shootings on Capitol Hill, and the shootings at the Jewish federation.
This is a tragic moment for Seattle and a tragic moment for America, once again. Our prayers and our thoughts are with the families and with the entire family of the Seattle Pacific University community. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want to address what the mayor said. It is time to stop the violence. It's too many incidents happening across our city and need everybody's help, community effort, to try to put a stop to it. Gun violence is too much of a problem in our city. We need to stop it. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So this is coming in as an assault with weapons and went to a multi-casualty incident with a number of patients. Working with Seattle Police Unified Command we were able to get the patients out and transported to the hospital and so that's what we know right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your name, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gregory Dean.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire chief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all very much. We'll have another update as soon as we can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions right now. We are done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thank you.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Authorities clearly not wanting to take questions at this time. In case you missed anything they said, basically, they said that the shooter walked into the foyer of Otto Miller Hall, confronted three students. Ended up shooting those three students. Those students apparently are the ones who are still alive.
We know a fourth student was shot and killed, died at the hospital according to the medical center. Apparently when the shooter began to reload, the shotgun that the shooter had a student who was a student monitor in the foyer and the building, a building monitor, confronted the individual, was able to subdue the shooter and then other students were said to have piled on.
Police arrived after that and were able to take the shooter in custody. Again, there had been initial reports of two possible shooters, but that seemed to be confusion over an eyewitness who saw the shooter being subdued and I assume the weapon taken away and perhaps the eyewitness thought that person with the weapon then was a second shooter but they were not. They were the person who subdued the apparent shooter.
Again, the identity of the shooter, the motive of the shooter, we simply do not know. We don't know if it was a student. Randi Kaye reported a piece of information that a vehicle apparently linked to the shooter has been tracked to a parent of the student. We don't know whether the parent -- that vehicle it was owned by the shooter.
And if, in fact, that means the shooter was a student. Police are simply not saying at this point. We'll take a short break. We'll have more information about this shooting and also the day's other news.
COOPER: Again the breaking news out of Seattle, one dead in a campus shooting there in Seattle. Suspected gunman in custody. His identity and motive unknown. We'll continue to monitor new developments and bring them to you as they come in.
There's more breaking news. Tonight, inside details of how last-minute the recovery of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl truly was. The video we saw last night, that spot in Kost Province where Special Forces choppered in for the pickup and just now learning they knew where to go an hour beforehand. Not the only new development concerning the sergeant or the political battle over the deal to bring him home.
Barbara Starr has the very latest starting with that surprising new detail on the meeting place -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Anderson. Good evening. One-hour notice for a recovery mission? Quite extraordinary. Not the only thing that's extraordinary today. New questions and new details about what happened to Bowe Bergdahl.
STARR (voice-over): Bowe Bergdahl may have tried to escape his Taliban captors on at least two occasions, a U.S. official tells CNN. But until the Army can talk to Bergdahl directly, they won't know for sure. However, a U.S. official says we do have reason to believe there were times he tried to escape. Bergdahl may not yet have fully talked about his five years in Taliban captivity, but he is recovering after nearly a week under U.S. military medical care.
The Pentagon said he is now speaking in English to the medical staff treating him. Participating more in his recovery treatment and is resting better. The administration continues to insist Bergdahl's health and safety were at risk, and to make the point, showed senators a classified video of Bergdahl from December 2013.
SENATOR ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: He looked terrible and I think that video should be released at some point. He could barely talk. He couldn't focus his eyes. He was downcast. He was thin. He looked like a man -- I looked around the room as that video was shown, and I think it was clearly effective when the video stopped. It wasn't very long, maybe 30 seconds. There was dead silence in the room.
STARR: An Afghan security official who was on duty near where Bergdahl was captured in 2009 told CNN when local villagers spotted Bergdahl after he left his base, they tried to get him to leave the village, telling him the area was dangerous. The official said Bergdahl appeared to be under the influence of hallucinogenic substances. CNN has spoken to several U.S. officials who could not independently confirm those accounts.
COOPER: Is there any better idea of when the sergeant will be brought back to the United States and at least even reunited with his parents?
STARR: Well, you know, Anderson, what we're hearing is this really a decision for his team of military psychologists to make when they think he is really ready to cope with it. It's been a week now and made physical recovery and clearly that team feels he is not ready for that yet and not told when that might happen and fly back to the United States.
COOPER: All right, Barbara Starr, thanks.
Digging deeper now is former CIA officer, Bob Baer and also David Ronde, who was held for seven months by the Taliban before he managed to escape. He's worked at the "New York Times" at that time and Dan O'Shea, Vice President of Security Consultants, a former Navy SEAL and a coordinator of the hostage working group at the U.S. Embassy, Baghdad during the war.
Bob, it's interesting that the team that went in to get him only knew about an hour before where the actual location was. Does that surprise you?
BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Extraordinarily bravery. They like weeks to set up for a mission like this. You know? Put surveillance, drones over it even human surveillance. For them to go in, I can't tell you what an act of courage it was on the part of Special Forces.
COOPER: Handful of guys, no weapons visible. Just -- I mean, they could have had explosive devices.
BAER: A vest, walked up to him, taken out the hospital. It's -- you know, they're real heroes.
COOPER: Dan, as we said, this was a peaceful handover. If any wrong move, it could have turned violent very, very quickly. With only an hour's notice, the exact location, what do you make of that? You oversaw a lot of hostage negotiations when you were in Baghdad.
DAN O'SHEA, FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL: Well, the reality is, yes, one hour time frame, you have to understand they're doing this for a long time and best in the business and able to react. Everything at that level of expertise and that unit that did the recovery, standard operating procedure for them. They're hesitant going up and saw him patting down at the scene. Got off the target. Called getting off the "x" and then see they're ready to respond.
Kept their eyes prepared for anything and then Taliban narrator said we had 18 fighters. Saw them on the high ground with the RPGs. They wanted to get out quickly. They had to check Bergdahl one more time. They don't know. You do this with every hostage.
Treat them and secure them before you take them off the target itself. This is, you know, yes, it's nothing compared to the rogues of what they do on the nightly basis, another day at the office for these guys, frankly.
COOPER: David, in terms of recovery process, it is interesting that it's been almost a week now and he still hasn't even talked to his parents. Does that surprise you?
DAVID RONDE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "REUTERS": It doesn't. Again, this is such a long time, five years. These three American contractors in Colombia, being very careful not to overwhelm him at this point and I can't emphasize from my time in captivity, he had no English speakers around him and I'm not surprised of reports of an escape. Whatever caused him to walk off the base, it is not fun in Taliban captivity. I heard the reports of Afghans, as well and recaptured the first time fought incredibly strongly to stop and took several Taliban to subdue him.
COOPER: You ultimately did escape for those who don't know, can you explain the calculus of that? The fear's got to be sense of getting re-caught and captured and what would happen then?
RONDE: For us, it was just hatred of our captors and the sense to hold us for years and years and years and if, frankly, you want it to end and if you die in the escape, you know, you die and then --
COOPER: You thought at the time, if I die, I die?
RONDE: Yes, I mean, to be frank.
COOPER: You just wanted out.
RONDE: I wanted out. I wanted -- I hoped it might work and we were ready to take the risk and not thinking very clearly in captivity. The Taliban guard you very loosely in this part of Pakistan controlling the whole area and they know there's a few guards around and you can get out of the compounds, you know. He was recaptured with fighters everywhere. Arabs and Afghans and Pakistanis. I had an Afghan journalist with me that brought me to a military base. He didn't have that.
COOPER: What do you make of just kind of how this played out? Now almost a week since the word broke on this.
BAER: Well, I think it's unfortunate because, clearly, if he left base as has been described and walked into Taliban's arms, he had psychological problems or broke down or narcotics or something. And he's not in my mind he's not a deserter in the full sense of the word. He didn't know what he was doing and needs to be examined and we need to hear his side of the story and so politicized I think unfortunately. I think the president was absolutely right to get the guy back home. It's the last prisoner.
COOPER: Because the notion of not leaving somebody behind is important?
BAER: It's a compact with the military. Never leave anybody in the field of battle. It doesn't make sense for the civilians, but in the military, and same way with the CIA, military, it's very important and disliked by a large number of people in the military leaving the post, nonetheless, he needs to be brought home.
COOPER: Dan, you've been critical of the precedent you say this sets. Public concessions to terror group, the Haqqani network. As you put it, the president defended the decision today and he makes no apologies. I was wondering about your reaction to that.
O'SHEA: Well, first and foremost, yes, we bring everyone home. But Bergdahl needs to answer for the conduct that night and needs to come out and addressed at the uniformed court of military justice and it's the president that's been set from the White House Rose Garden that, yes, everyone assumes that the policy is we don't negotiate with terrorists, but what U.S. policy is and was when I was in Iraq is clear.
We don't make concessions to terrorism and now the president made an announcement to the world that we do negotiate with terrorists and we do make concessions to terrorists. That's the dangerous precedent because it's now no more can we stand by that principle and I think kept Americans safe and not targeted like the French, the Germans and the Italians that were targeted repeatedly after the word spread early on in the campaign in 2004.
That these are countries that pay ransoms and put a bounty on the head of anyone carrying the passports and the bigger picture is press department set and can't turn it back because it's a White House press conference. You know? Times remain to be seen. What do we say to the families of the Taliban commanders when they get in the fight? What do we say then involved in more attacks against fellow Afghans and we know they did and more American lives are lost and say to those parents?
COOPER: Dan, it's good to have you all on. Dan O'Shea, Bob Baer as well David Ronde, appreciate it. We have a conversation right before the broadcast with Marcus Latrell, former Navy SEAL. And if you road his book, you know what Marcus Latrell did in Afghanistan, what he went through, being hunted by the Taliban.
Because of the breaking news, we don't want to cut down that interview and bring it to you tomorrow night on this broadcast. I hope you tune in for that. He has a unique perspective on the situation.
We have new information out of Seattle. Hearing from more eyewitnesses. We'll return to it after a short break.
COOPER: OK. Sad news out of Seattle. One person killed, three wounded, one critically wounded. It happened at Seattle Pacific University, about 3:30 local time in one of the school's classroom buildings. The shooter armed with a shotgun opened fire hitting four people. A young man died shortly after arriving at the hospital.
A 20-year-old woman is undergoing surgery, is in critical condition, two other young men are in satisfactory condition. The suspected gunman in custody. Seattle police say a building monitor inside the hall, a student confronted the shooter and subdued him. Other students jumped on top of them.
The identity of the shooter and motive is yet unknown. The student, Blake Oliveira was in the building and joins us by phone. Blake, where were you when the shots rang out?
BLAKE OLIVEIRA, SPU STUDENT, EYEWITNESS (via telephone): Sure. I was on the bottom floor of where it happened, maybe 100 feet away in class.
COOPER: So what did you hear?
OLIVEIRA: So, actually, everyone in class heard just a big muffled sound. Everyone I've talked to said they heard one and then that's kind of when everything started.
COOPER: So you heard what sounded like a muffled sound. You said you think there was only one.
COOPER: Did you know -- I mean, did people know instantly what was going on?
OLIVEIRA: Actually, no. All the students thought it was a gunshot and I was in physics and my professor thought it was an experiment because -- OK, I can see how it was that. But someone next to the door, they look out the door, didn't see anything, but they heard something and they come back in. Said, I think someone was shot. We need to lock everything. Close everything down.
COOPER: And that's what you did?
OLIVIERA: Yes. That's what we did.
COOPER: And then, did you hear other shots later on? Because I talked to one student who said they heard shots and then a 2-minute gap and then more shots.
OLIVEIRA: I didn't hear the first one if there was a first one. I heard one loud one which had to be next to me because the building's so loud that I can't hear anything.
COOPER: And how long did you stay in the classroom for? OLIVEIRA: I want to say we were in the classroom for a total of 5 minutes. So zero, first shot to about two minutes, we were like getting everything done and then I grabbed -- we were locked down. Me and someone else grabbed like a pipe we found in class. And that's when I was listening through the door of everything that was going on. And 2 minutes, when I started listening, and at the -- 5-minute mark and escorted out by the police.
COOPER: And as you left, did you see anything?
OLIVEIRA: So, yes. As I left, I -- I took my sandals off in case I need to run and then my backpack and I saw blood piles on the ground. There was, like, maybe two or three big ones and then there was just like scattered blood throughout the hallway. And I actually stepped in one because I didn't see it there's so many.
COOPER: The students themselves had already been taken away?
OLIVEIRA: So, I saw a person being detained on the ground at the front. And I actually heard in the newscast that he said one of the staff in the front was able to disarm him so it must have been the shooter who was being detained.
COOPER: Blake, I appreciate you talking to us. Blake Oliveira, I'm glad you and the other students in the class were safe. Thank you very much. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Seattle shooting on the campus of Seattle Pacific University. Randi Kaye has a quick recap.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, coming to us from Captain Chris Fowler at Seattle PD, he says that it was a young male that entered the building with a shotgun there on campus. Shot three people and as he began to reload, another student, some reports from the affiliate, saying a naval ROTC student jumped on top of him, confronted him, used pepper spray to help pin him down. Other students helped with that until he was taken into custody. A man in the 20s has died. One woman critical. In surgery. Two other young men, Anderson, in satisfactory condition.
COOPER: All right, Randi, thanks for that. That does it for us. The original series "The Sixties" starts now.