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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Police: Gunshots Fired Near National Security Agency; White House: Netanyahu Offered Not One New Idea; Justice Department Finds Pattern of Excessive Force Against Blacks in Ferguson
Aired March 3, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight. Breaking news. Reports of gunshots fired near the National Security Agency with a spy agency targeted. We'll have a live report in just a moment.
And more breaking news, President Obama firing back at Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. Who's right on the deal with Iran?
And the Justice Department delivering a scathing report of the Ferguson Police Department charging a pattern of racism, putting out internal e-mails with racist jokes about the President in them. We'll show you. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. We begin with breaking news. Gunshots fired near the National Security Agency right by Washington, D.C. The agency is located in Ft. Meade, Maryland which is just 25 miles north of the nation's capital. Earlier today, shots were also fired on a connecting road in Prince George County, Maryland. Two men were wounded in that shooting. Investigators are now trying to find out if the two incidents are related.
Barbara Starr begins our coverage OUTFRONT tonight at the Pentagon. Barbara, what have you learned?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Erin. A cold and rainy night in Washington and a bit of a spy mystery, perhaps. These reports of shots fired near the National Security Agency spy mystery. Because the NSA one of most secretive agencies in the U.S. government is in charge of billions of dollars in cryptological work, decoding, intercepts, all of that. They don't like to talk about anything they do there. And so tonight, the mystery is what if anything, happened there. The NSA not talking about it just yet. A spokesman telling us a short time ago that NSA police along with other law enforcement officials investigating there reports that shots were fired near the NSA and there may, may have been damage to one of the NSA buildings. But the agency says, there are no reports of any injuries. No one was hurt. And they can't say anymore about it right now. They don't even know, they say, if one of their buildings actually was struck by this gunfire. All of this sits in a very wooded area north of Washington. So, obviously there's going to be concern trying to find out exactly what did happen, if anything, was there someone in the woods with a weapon. There's a lot of security around the NSA. A lot of security in those woods. So, a very close look being taken tonight about what did happen there -- Erin. BURNETT: As you've said, the thing is (INAUDIBLE). All right.
If we'll get more information on that we're going to be bringing that to all of you. Barbara, thank you.
And we want to get to our other breaking news story tonight which is the President firing back after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addressed a joint meeting of Congress. He condemn a possible nuclear deal with Iran and President Obama from the White House then decided to fire back later in the day dismissing the much hyped speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: As far as I can tell there was nothing new. The Prime Minister didn't offer any viable alternatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Earlier, Netanyahu received a welcome frankly that usually is the welcome gotten by the president of the United States at the State of the Union. It was pretty incredible to watch this. Lawmakers lining up to try to shake his hand. Standing ovation after standing ovation. With more than 50 democrats boycotting Netanyahu's appearance, the audience was overwhelming friendly interrupting the speech dozens of times with those standing ovations. And unlike the State of the Union, half the audience wasn't sitting there in protest. Everybody was standing. All of this comes not long before the end of March deadline for negotiators to reach the long term deal on Iran's nuclear program.
Michelle Kosinski begins our coverage tonight. OUTFRONT from the White House.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Before this very eager U.S. Congress, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu preceded to absolutely blast the prospect of a nuclear deal with Iran that he called the enemy.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: That deal will not prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, it will all but guarantee that Iran gets those weapon, lots of them. That's why this deal is so bad. It doesn't block Iran's path to the bomb. It paves Iran's path to the bomb.
KOSINSKI: He really got a huge reception here, the White House not impressed. President Obama didn't even watch the speech but he did use nearly 15 minutes responding to it.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: The prime minister didn't offer any viable alternatives. The alternative that the Prime Minister's offer is no deal in which case Iran will immediately begin once again pursuing its nuclear program, accelerate its nuclear program without us having any insight into what they're doing and without constraint.
KOSINSKI: Netanyahu's objection to the deal with an end of this month's deadline, it would not require Iran to demolish any nuclear facility. Thousands of centrifuges. It will allow about a year of what's called break out time. How long it would take Iran to make a nuclear bomb if it decided to would possibly would have a 10-year timeframe. And Netanyahu says, more inspection of facilities would only be able to document Iran's potential progress towards a weapon but wouldn't be able to stop it.
NETANYAHU: The world should demand that Iran do three things. First, stop its aggression against its neighbors in the Middle East. Second, stop supporting terrorism around the world. And third, stop threating to annihilate my country, Israel, the one and only Jewish state.
KOSINSKI: The speech watched by the world but boycotted by some 50 democrats. The White House trying to stay above all the emotion.
OBAMA: What I'm focused on right now is solving this problem. I'm not focused on the politics of it. I'm not focused on the fear of it. My strong suggestion would be that members of Congress as they're evaluating stay similarly published.
KOSINSKI: So, now that we know what was in that speech we can see how over the past few days, the White House really tried to steal Netanyahu's thunder pretty much everything he said and make an argument against it. I mean, they were saying that if you try to add these greater restrictions on Iran and indefinite time frame for the deal or more sanctions or trying to get them to dismantle their whole nuclear program then Iran isn't going to take it. And that would be tons amount to know deal at all. And in stark opposition to what Netanyahu was saying this administration feels that no deal is far worse than the deal that they are trying to complete. Keep in mind though, President Obama did say that at this point it's far more likely than not that Iran rejects this deal -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. Michelle Kosinski reporting from the White House.
Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT from Tehran tonight. And Fred, what was the reaction there to the speech by the Israeli Prime Minister that was watched so carefully around the world?
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, it was actually quite of vicious reaction. This speech was strangely enough, it was not broadcast on Iranian television however there was video of the speech on Iranian TV with the banner saying Iranophobic speech. That's sort of been -- the title that the Iranian government and entities here have given to that speech. We reached out to the spokesperson for Iran's foreign minister and she said to us that she found the speech was sickening. But she also said, this is something that goes across in many of the official government entities here that it would bring divisions between the United States and the Israelis. That's a sort of seeing that the Iranians are playing on here. And I want to actually read to you a tweet from Iran's supreme leader from his official twitter account, where he says, "The day when western people realize that they're problems result from Zionism's hegemony over governments they will make an inescapable hell for them."
So, certainly also building on those divisions, or those perceived divisions, and a pretty strong rhetoric there from the supreme leader of this country. So certainly there was a lot of backlash, there was a lot of angry reaction. There were also some regular people who we spoke to who said that they didn't obviously like the speech at all. But one of things that we didn't hear, Erin which is quite interesting is that the Iranians are not saying that they are going to walk away from the negotiations over this. In fact, the government official that we spoke to said that they want to continue all of this. They are still hoping for an agreement. However, they also say that if an agreement is not reached, that Iran will go on. Iran will survive under the sanctions as well. They certainly are preparing for that to be a possibility also -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much. And Fred is live in Tehran tonight.
And OUTFRONT now, republican Congressman Peter King, he serves on the House Homeland Security and intelligence committees. And democratic Congressman Brian Higgins, he serves in the House Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security Committees.
All right. Great to have both of you. Congressman Higgins, let me start with you. The Prime Minister's welcome in Congress was something to see. It was sitting there watching it. It sort of took my breath away because it was so much pomp and circumstance. It rival the state of the union. The standing ovations, the cheers and unlike at the state of the union, you didn't see half the room refusing to stand or shaking their heads because more than 50 democrats didn't attend. So you had an overwhelmingly friendly audience. You chose to go even though you support a deal. Did your colleagues made a mistake and give a pr victory to the Israeli Prime Minister?
REP. BRIAN HIGGINS (D), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: I don't think so, I think that democrats and republicans are united in our support for Israel and I think this speech allowed the proper protocol was breached, that said it added to the dialogue. And I think it was very, very important and I think Congress overwhelmingly both democrats and republicans, responded very favorable to the Prime Minister's speech.
BURNETT: They did respond. What's interesting you say democrats and republicans. So, the democrats that were there seeing it favorably.
Congressman King, the President, maybe that's part of the reason he chose this afternoon when he was appearing with his defense secretary to speak for 15 minutes about the speech from the White House. And here is part of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: If we're successful in negotiating, then in fact this
will be the best deal possible to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Nothing else comes close. Sanctions won't do it. Even military action would not be as successful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's the key line. I mean, is it a deal Congressman King better than military action even if frankly it's not a very good deal?
REP. PETER KING (R), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: No, I think a bad deal is bad. Because it would in effect the institutionalizing Iran's nuclear capacity. Because they would maintain a nuclear infrastructure, they would have enriched uranium and the deal, if it's the way it appears to be in ten years. And that would mean in less than a year, Iran would be a nuclear power. At the end of that ten year period, within one year after that, there would be a nuclear power with everything in place. So no, I think that more has to be done. And listen, everybody would like an agreement, I agree on Brian on that but the agreement would in fact lacks in place, Iran's nuclear infrastructure I think is dangerous to Israel, dangerous to the U.S., dangerous to the world.
BURNETT: Congressman Higgins, I know you support this deal right now. You just heard our reporters --
HIGGINS: There's no deal to support. It's a frame work for a deal will be established in about a month from now.
BURNETT: So, do you support what the President has put forward, this break out time of one year that Congressman King's referring to or no?
KING: Well, I think the President has been very clear that we have to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. There are a lot of questions and concerns. The number of centrifuges in the last 10 years have increased in Iran from 168 to about 19,000. Those are machines that spin at supersonic speeds to enrich uranium to bomb grade. That's a major, major concern. So, I'm very curious to see what the agreement, the final agreement, the framework of agreement says about the number of centrifuges will be allowed because you can't deal with Iran's nuclear program without dealing with its atomic infrastructure.
BURNETT: And the centrifuges is a crucial part of it. Which I wanted to get to in a moment. But let me ask you something Congressman because it sounds like you're not totally on board with at least the frame of the deal that's out there. You want to know more. I want to read to you another tweet from the supreme leader of Iran. You heard a reporter in Tehran share a tweet. That kind of vitriol is very standard from this twitter account. Back in November, the Ayatollah tweeted this, why should and how can Israel be eliminated? Ayatollah Komeni's answered to nine key questions. My question to you is how can you support any kind of a deal with a country whose supreme leader is tweeting that kind of thing? HIGGINS: I think because of what you said earlier, and that is
that sanctions brought us to the table. Sanctions are if Israeli idea, sanctions have cripple the Iranian economy. And without sanction they wouldn't be at the table. The question is, what comes from that negotiation. It is very, very fair. Ad everybody points this out to be very, very skeptical about Iran's commitment to some peaceful settlement relative to the nuclear program. They are causing a lot of problems in the region, in Iraq with the control, the Shia militias in Syria with the support of Assad and Lebanon with the support of Hezbollah.
BURNETT: So, Congressman King, this issue of the centrifuges. Obviously they do about 20,000. Obviously not all of them are operational. Prime Minister Netanyahu says, the supreme leader of Iran wants 190,000 centrifuges. We checked that. That's true. He has said that. Prime Minister Netanyahu sites as evidence of their intent. So, we called the weapons inspector. And that weapons inspector David Albright actually said, look, that number could be completely consistent with peaceful nuclear program. Japan actually has more centrifuges. Is this focus on the number of centrifuges off base?
KING: I think it's something that has to be brought up in the discussion. And if it was just centrifuges per say and was in the hands of another country, you mentioned Japan, then I would not have the concern. But in the hands of Iran with the rest of the nuclear infrastructure, I'm very concerned. And I just wish the president, and also for the Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi has shown more respect to Prime Minister Netanyahu. I mean, listen, what BB Netanyahu has done today, he's probably set off the real debate we've had, public debate in this country on the proposed or potential nuclear agreement with Iran. I think he is our closest ally in the Middle East. I think he deserved better treatment. And again, as Brian said, we do want a good agreement. I don't know if we're going to get it. I'm very doubtful right now. But Israel is our closest ally. And I think it's important for us to keep that in mind. When you look at that terrible part of the world, Israel is the one. It's the beacon, it's the democracy, it's strong, they stood with us. And I just think that we should be listening to what the Israeli Prime Minister says and take it seriously. Now, everything he said today, I think I agree with based on what we know. Having said, at the very least, it's very serious consideration.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to both you. And it's a fair point. It's a serious consideration. It could possibly be the most important diplomatic negotiation by the United States in 30 plus years.
OUTFRONT next, breaking news. A new report from the Justice Department finding pattern of racism among Ferguson police. We're going to tell you exactly what's in it. Some of the shocking details.
Plus, Los Angeles police shooting and killing an unarmed man. We have new video analysis tonight. There's so much more to the story that we can show you. We have a special report OUTFRONT. And the black hat bandit striking again. This time possibly leaving a major clue. The latest on the man hunt and that clue, coming up.
BURNETT: Breaking news. A scathing report form the Justice Department showing repeated discrimination against blacks in Ferguson, Missouri. The department found a pattern among Ferguson police, a pattern of targeting blacks and using unreasonable force against them. Investigation was ordered by the Attorney General Holder after mass protests in Ferguson responding to the death of Michael Brown, the unarmed black teen shot and killed by police.
Justice correspondent Evan Perez is OUTFRONT in Washington. And Evan, I just want to go to exactly what is in this report. What is the bottom-line that they are saying happened in Ferguson?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, the bottom- line here is this Police Department and the court system in Ferguson, according to the Justice Department was rived with racism. I'll give you a couple of statistics from the report that we expect release tomorrow according to the Justice Department, 85 percent of the vehicle stops between 2012 and 2014 were of African-Americans. Eighty eight percent of cases where the Ferguson police used force in making an arrest, it was against African-Americans. Ninety three percent of all arrests were of African-Americans. And this in a city that's 67 percent African-American, Erin. And so, this report is really, as you said, scathing. And it shows that this is a problem that goes beyond just the police department into the court system because people were being targeted not only for traffic stops but also thrown in jail when they couldn't pay their fines.
BURNETT: And Evan, it goes beyond that. They also have e-mails they say of officials trading racist jokes.
PEREZ: Yes. That's right. They uncovered e-mails on the Ferguson city computer system where people were trading jokes. I'll real one of them that refers to in 2008 in November right after the election of President Barack Obama. One person said in an e-mail in which he said President Obama wouldn't likely last in office for very long because quote, "What black man holds a steady job for four years." Again, this is what the Justice Department says was going on behind the scenes. And it underscores and it backs up what we heard on the streets there in Ferguson when we were down there and people were protesting after the killing of Michael Brown.
BURNETT: Wow! That's pretty incredible. There were other jokes like that in the e-mails that they uncovered. Thank you so much, Evan.
OUTFRONT now, the attorney for Michael Brown's family Anthony Gray and former LAPD officer David Klinger also from the St. Louis area. Okay, so let me start with you Anthony. You just heard Evan's report. Ferguson Police Department, the city court repeatedly discriminating against blacks, that's the allegation. Those are the examples and the statistics they're providing. You represent the family of Michael Brown. What's your response? ANTHONY GRAY, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN JR.'S FAMILY: Well,
nobody is alarmed. No one is shocked by the actual statistics. It's been well known throughout Ferguson community amongst a large populations of its citizens that these types of stats have always been there. They may not have known the actual numbers but intuitively they have always known that there's been kind of a target on their back. That's the reason why you saw the complaints that came out immediately after the aftermath of the shooting. So no one is really surprised or alarmed by the stat themselves.
BURNETT: All right. David, I guess the question is, how serious is this racism and whether you think it's real? Darren Wilson's Attorney Neil Bruntrager, we talked to him today, he says Ferguson's neighboring towns, Jennings and Berkeley, he mentioned them specifically, he said, look they're 90 percent, 82 percent black respectively. They don't have grocery stores. People from those areas come to Ferguson. He's providing that as an example of why the statistics might look worse than they really are. Does that excuse that up to you?
DAVID KLINGER, FORMER LAPD OFFICER: What I would say is, I don't know. And, you know, I'm a professor now. I left law enforcements essentially three decades ago. And I've been studying this stuff. And one of the things that we know is we have to understand what the appropriate benchmark is. And what that means is what should we be comparing the stop rates, the arrest rates so on and so forth too? Is it the population or is it the people on the street?
BURNETT: Right. That's the distinction he's making there.
KLINGER: So, I don't know what the answer is.
KLINGER: Right. But what we need to know is really to know that. So rather than jumping to a conclusion and saying that there's approximately 20 percentage point disparity between population of black citizenry versus population of black arrestees that may be explicable based upon vehicle stops maybe explicable based upon differential traffic pattern. We don't know. So, I think it's important that we figure out exactly what's in the report so that we can take a very, very careful look at it.
KLINGER: Because it's very easy to jump to conclusion. And as a research as Iowa say, show me the data, let me look for it very carefully. The flip side of the coin could be of course that the discriminatory practice are even worse. Because it could be that there are fewer blacks than 67 percent riding on the surface streets of Ferguson. We have to wait and see.
BURNETT: So, Anthony let me ask you this though because there's a simple demographics. Right? You have a 67 percent black community and you have arrest rates that are 20 percent or more higher. There's that bottom-line. But then there's also this. According to another report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks an eight times more likely to commit crimes than whites. So, in a community like Ferguson where you have a 67 percent black population, that might mean the arrest rate might fairly be higher than the raw population break down, right?
GRAY: I mean, that might be. And I don't think what's driving this discourse in the Ferguson community and the surrounding community are the stats. I think what you generally had was a sense or a feeling within the community that they were not being treated equally and fairly. That has now been bolstered by these statistics. Well, trust me, no one in the Ferguson or in the St. Louis region are looking at stats every day to walk away with how they feel about their interaction with law enforcement. I think what you're seeing in this report is indicative of how people have felt for a long time. That's why all of the calls I received today, a large majority of them, are not surprised by what the Justice Department is saying. Because they have been living this for quite some time.
GRAY: And at least, you know, the feeling of disparity has always been there even if it's not real. The feeling has always been there.
BURNETT: And I mean, you know, we all remember David, the tear gas. The video we all saw this summer of the violence, the break down in Ferguson, Missouri. This does comes down to things like the e- mails. I mean, you know, Evan shared one joke. Another joke was this from an e-mail, quote, "An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later, she received a check for $3,000, she went to the hospital ad asked who it was from. The hospital said crime stoppers." There's nothing to explain or justify something like that, is there?
KLINGER: No. I'm not here to be a humor critic. That stuff is completely out of the appropriate zone of communication outside of the media comedy club or someone talking like that. But clearly, there's no place for that in an official correspondence and official communication of a government entity. I don't think anybody is going to try to defend that. Now, drawing a link between that and patterns and practices of law enforcement because we don't know who told the joke, who it was sent from, who it was sent to, that's a whole other issue. And I think Mr. Gray would understand that you need to dig deep to figure out what's going on and what the linkages might be.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate both of you taking the time. And of course we'll get that former report with all of the details tomorrow.
OUTFRONT next, police shooting an unarmed man but was he actually going for a gun? We have new analysis of the video. Everything is on blur. You will see it all and it changes the story dramatically tonight. That's next.
Plus, Jihadi John, the face and the brutal ISIS beheading videos. We have got a new picture of him and he's in his own words. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIHADI JOHN, ISIS MILITANT: Innocent people have been, have died. What do you think? I think this is extremism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the Black Hat Bandits and they struck again. Police warned the serial bank robbers are armed and dangerous. But this time may have left a major clue behind.
BURNETT: Tonight, we're learning new details about a police shooting that left an unarmed man dead in downtown Los Angeles. A forensic expert went through this cell phone video frame by frame. Tonight revealing to CNN what he believes was said and done in those crucial moments leading up to an officer shooting five times and killing a man.
Stephanie Elam spoke to that forensic expert. She's OUTFRONT tonight in Los Angeles.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video of the officer involved shooting on Skid Row in downtown Los Angeles is key and contains crucial evidence to the investigation. When the video is slowed down and zoomed in, more clues about what transpired between the LAPD officers and the suspect come to light.
David Notowitz is an audio/video forensic expert.
(on camera): Go back a little bit to this officer getting out of the police car that shows up.
DAVID NOTOWITZ, NATIONAL CENTER FOR AUDIO & VIDEO FORENSICS: He's now reaching, if you see here, for his left side. That's important because officers will only wear their tasers on their weaker side. They have their gun on their stronger side.
So, as you see him coming out of car, he's reaching for his left side. We don't know if that's his strong or weak side yet. But watch what he does, he switches it to his right hand. So, right here we see in his right hand, it appears not to be a gun. It appears to be a taser.
ELAM: There's light coming through it.
NOTOWITZ: We don't hear any electrical discharging from any device, as far as I can hear until that device is up against the suspect right here. We see a hand going up and grabbing something on that man's right side.
ELAM: On the officer's right side?
NOTOWITZ: At his waist level.
See the officer reaching to his right side and tussling with the suspect's hand on his right side, which is apparently his gun.
ELAM: It looks like he's losing his balance.
NOTOWITZ: Yes, they're fighting with each other. Apparently, they're fighting over that weapon.
We don't hear "drop the gun, drop the gun" until the hand goes up and grabs at the officer's right side. He's starting to stand up before even a single shot is being fired.
ELAM: What about the officer can you see in the video?
NOTOWITZ: We see the officer pulling out a gun, apparently and pointing it right there. This man, right here, right here, you see his right hand, also apparently reaching for his gun. Watch. He pulls it out the holster. He's pointing his gun now. See right here.
ELAM: Taser is on the ground.
NOTOWITZ: This gentleman is reaching on his right side, which is his strong side now to take the gun out.
ELAM: So, what we see now is this man was the first we were able to discern he had a gun. This was the second man we're able to discern that he had a gun, and now, this is the third officer that we're able to discern that looks like he has a gun in his hand.
BURNETT: Stephanie, that's pretty fascinating.
So, what is his ultimate take away when he watched it frame by frame in terms of who is at fault?
ELAM: Well, when you talk to David about this, what he took away from this is that throughout all the methods that they tried first, the police officers tried with this man, they tried to subdue him without going to lethal force, and they only did that after that struggle for the gun took place is what he estimates happened. At that point, that's when you see the guns being drawn.
Of course, for the community protesters who are out today marching to LAPD headquarters, they don't think that that's enough. They think four men should be able to subdue one man, especially if he'd already been tased, Erin.
BURNETT: Right, which, of course, is an interesting point in itself. As you point out, three men there with guns right in that last frame as you were showing us.
Stephanie, thank you. And OUTFRONT now, David Winslow, an attorney for three of the
LAPD officers involved in that shooting, also a former LAPD officer, himself, Matthew Fogg is also with me, a retired chief deputy U.S. marshal.
Thanks to both you have.
David, I want to go to you first. These men are your clients. You have seen something that we have not. That frame by frame analysis that we're showing is off of citizen's cell phone video. You've seen the video from the two body cameras worn by police. You've seen the up close and personal version of what happened.
What did you see?
DAVID WINSLOW, ATTORNEY FOR THREE LAPD OFFICRES INVOLVED IN SHOOTING: Well, I saw what was confirmed on the videotape that was put on YouTube. There's different angles. Those angles show what happened, at the incident, and it's important to say that the -- what is seen on the videotape isn't necessarily the perceptions of the officers.
The lighting is difference. The officers can see things a little more clearly when they're there, and what I saw on those two body-worn cameras confirm what the officers showed that the use of force that was used was appropriate and it escalated in accordance with what the suspect was doing at the time.
BURNETT: Matthew, when you hear what David is saying, obviously, these are his clients. If you had seen that video, you also hear our forensic experts, who -- the bottom line was these police officers did try to subdue the man without lethal force. His view of the citizen cell phone video also supported the officers. What do you see?
MATTHEW FOGG, FORMER CHIEF DEPUTY U.S. MARSHAL: Well, what I see is, first of all, when I see the way that the guy is approached by the officer, seemed like a melee right there. I don't know at what point they used their tasers and sprayed the man, but I'm just saying it just looked like it was a lot of like struggling going on right from the beginning. And then at the time when you see the guy on the ground, it's really hard to tell because if the guy was tased, you're swinging your arms and flailing, it's chance he arms could have went somewhere.
I don't whether he actually grabbed the officer's gun. I really can't tell from that video.
FOGG: From what I saw, it didn't appear he grabbed his gun. But again, that's what they're saying happened. If he did have the officer's gun, of course, the officers would have reason to fire.
But what I looked at what as lot of struggling going on in which you see a lot of times in these types of incidents is how fast do they escalate to that level? Was it necessary to escalate to that level? BURNETT: And I guess, David, that is the key question, because
one of the things you see whether he's reaching for the gun or not is the fact that the suspect Africa, as he is called is on the ground on his back. You've got three-plus police officers around you, you know, from a layperson's perspective, it can seem a little ridiculous that they all need to pull their guns and fire.
WINSLOW: Sure. I understand that from a layperson.
What the video doesn't show is that prior to what happened on the YouTube video is the suspect was being questioned by the officers. The officers had information that this suspect used a baseball bat on another citizen and injured that citizen. The officers were trying to talk to him, to get him to move away from the tent that he was standing next to, which contained the baseball bat and perhaps other weapons or things they didn't know about.
So, they asked the suspects to move away from the tent and move over to a wall. He refused to do that. He started escalating his volume in his voice. He clenched his fist. He continued to refuse. The officers request and move away from tent. Then he turned and went into the tent and shut the tent so the officers couldn't see what he was doing.
WINSLOW: The officers attempted to open it and he was trying to grab an object inside the tent. They ordered him to stop. When he came out is when the taser was eventually used.
Prior to going in the tent, he was being warned that if he didn't comply with the officers' command, he was going to tase and the taser was going to hurt him.
WINSLOW: But nonetheless, he went inside the tent and he is the one -- the suspect is the one who controlled the level of tension in the situation and created the point where the officers did, in fact, tase him and that's the point where you see the struggling going on and what's happening is the suspect is ripping the darts out his chest and attacking the officer who tased him.
BURNETT: All right.
WINSLOW: So, that's when the officers grabbed him and put him on the ground.
As far as your question about the amount of officers on the suspect, when there's multiple officers on the suspects, there's only so many officers that can control the suspect. You could have 10 officers there and they couldn't all be effective by putting their hands on him.
BURNETT: OK. WINSLOW: So, when they're holding him, trying to hold him down,
this is a violent suspect. He's mentally unstable. He is possibly on drugs, he's strong. He's a large man.
WINSLOW: He was fighting the officers. They did everything they could to control him.
BURNETT: All right.
WINSLOW: That was the point where he -- go ahead.
BURNETT: No, no, I was just literally just you for coming on.
But I did want to just say this, one thing that would solve this when David is going through this description is if they leased the body cam footage so we could see it for ourselves that might put all this to rest. They said they will not do that until after the investigation is complete.
OUTFRONT next, newly released audio, Jihadi John just six years ago talking about 9/11.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JIHADI JOHN: This is the wrong thing. What happened was wrong.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, the suspected gang of robbers known as the Black Hat Bandits strike again. This time they left a clue. We'll tell you.
BURNETT: Breaking news: Jihadi John unmask. This new image shows the face of the suspected ISIS executioner who's appeared in disguised covered in black, with the black head covering in the group's brutal beheading videos. We're hearing directly from him for the first time.
This is newly released audio. And it has a really surprising insight into what he was thinking before he became this horrific executioner.
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.
JIHADI JOHN: I said, wow, these might these must be some serious questions. Let's get down to it.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The voice purportedly of Mohammed Emwazi, aka Jihadi John, from a 2009 interview with the British Muslim advocacy group CAGE. JIHADI JOHN: I looked at him face-to-face now, and he looked at
me and said, Mohammed, I said yes.
MARQUEZ: Distinctly different from the swaggering foreboding voice as he threatened world leaders and apparently murdered in cold blood innocent Westerners in Syria.
JIHADI JOHN: Obama, you have started your aerial bombardment in Sham, which keeps on striking our people. So, it is only right that we continue to strike the necks of your people.
MARQUEZ: How is it Kuwaiti born British raised Emwazi went from a good upbringing, education and background to such extreme radicalization.
JIHADI JOHN: I don't think, I believe, and I told them everything that's been happening is extreme. Anything that bombs or whatever, that's been happening are all from extremists.
MARQUEZ: Even pictures of Emwazi tell a story. This one, a college student at Britain's University of Westminster from the mid- 2000, to this one of him in Kuwait in 2010. Then to this, a murderer, who despite hiding his face in disguising his voice, he's now exactly what he claimed he wasn't when being interviewed by Britain security service MI5 in 2009.
JIHADI JOHN: I told them this is how Islam is. We don't force anyone to come into religion. Everyone has their own right.
MARQUEZ: During that 2009 interview, Emwazi said he thought both 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings in London were extremist behavior and wrong. But whoever was interviewing him from MI5 wasn't buying it, for their angering Emwazi.
JIHADI JOHN: I said, after what I just told you, after, you know, I told you that what's happening is extremism, this and that, and you're still suggesting that I'm an extremist. And so, yes, and he started going on forcing, trying to put words into my mouth.
MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, New York.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, the thieves suspected of pulling an eighth bank robbery since the beginning of the year. This time, we actually found a clue in the foot prints. That report is next.
And then, after the woodpecker and the weasel went viral, it seemed like everyone wanted a ride. Jeanne Moos has the story.
BURNETT: Tonight, a manhunt is on for a gang of bank robbers dubbed the Black Hat Bandits. We first told you about them with exclusive video and FBI now says these men seen here on surveillance footage with those deep brimmed black hats are armed and extremely dangerous. They struck another bank yesterday. That is their eighth bank heist since January. This time though they left a clue.
Joe Johns is OUTFRONT.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The armed and dangerous Black Hat Bandits robbed another bank this week, this time leaving potential new clues for FBI agents conducting the manhunt.
Authorities say they found several footprints in the snow they believe were left by the bandits. Crime scene investigators preserve them in molds and gather them evidence. Tracks were found near a Wells Fargo Bank in Falls Church, Virginia, just outside of Washington, D.C., their eighth target since January and investigators said there was more evidence of a getaway car that could explain why they seem to disappear from the area so quickly.
All the pieces of the puzzle these investigators need to solve before these men hit another bank are before somebody gets hurt.
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Every time they go in, the pressure is higher. You would think it's easier because they're getting better at it, but they know it's a numbers game. And just like -- I think this last one where there are witnesses outside and they got footprints from individuals fleeing, you know, they're starting to collect bits of information. So, they know police are on the trail and if these individuals have a violent tendency and they are confronted by police, you know, you could turn it into a hostage situation or just a shootout in general.
JOHNS: The last robbery had potential for trouble. Police say the men were apparently first spotted at the beginning of the crime, rather than on their way out. A little quicker response and police might have cornered the robbers.
LT. JOE CARTER, CITY OF FALLS CHURCH POLICE: The city of falls church police received a phone call from an individual who stated they saw two unknown males going to the bank with black masks on.
JOHNS: The bandits have gotten bolder with each robbery hitting banks around the nation's capital but not inside it. In an earlier heist, one of the robbers even put a gun to the head of a customer. A former FBI agent and bank robbery expert says the robberies appear to be well-planned with the focus of getting in and out quickly, so- called time on target.
GILLIAM: Most bank robbers that perform multiple bank robberies know if they stay too long in the bank, which is their target, they're going to end up getting caught or the police will arrive and they'll end up getting in a shootout. The less time that you spend -- just like in the movies, the less time on target that you spend -- the more likely you are to get away with the actual robbery.
JOHNS: A $30,000 reward is being offered for information leading to the arrest of these guys. We really don't know how much money they've gotten away with because the FBI won't release that. FBI agents in both Washington and Baltimore are working this case -- Erin.
BURNETT: That's incredible when you see that map they've done eight heists so close to each other and not yet been apprehended. Joe Johns, thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos on the tiny weasel that hitch a ride on the back of a bird. I don't know if I think that's cute. It's either -- I don't know, it could be vicious or pornographic or is it something. We'll tell you why the weasel was there.
BURNETT: So, first, there was a photo of the blue and black dress or white and gold, whatever you saw. But now, there's a new photo that has people in utter disbelief, is this real?
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A weasel riding a woodpecker as if it's a riding steed. It has the photo that had the whole world laughing.
Bird experts were blown away.
JAMIE WYVER, ROYAL SOCIETY FOR THE PROTECTION OF BIRDS: I was absolutely stunned. I couldn't believe it was real.
MOOS: But Jamie Wyver became a believer once he saw the blurry photos to the company that now famous one. Martin Lamay, a photographer by hobby, was with his wife in a London park when they heard a woodpecker squawking and saw a weasel attacking the bird as it took off.
This was no fantasy kiddie movie.
This was a life and death struggle. The photographer told various media that the woodpecker landed on a presence momentarily distracted the weasel. The woodpecker seized the opportunity and flew up and away, both survived.
WYVER: It's a photographer's dream, isn't it, to capture behavior that no one has ever seen before.
MOOS: Soon, everyone was seeing it, photoshopped with a weasel wearing a cape, with Madonna in her cape, and shirtless Vladimir Putin, who was later combined with Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, left shark climbed aboard. The weasel decked was out in the blue or is it gold dress? Miley Cyrus was half dressed.
MOOS: Even the two runaway llamas showed up. Is it feasible for the bird to fly with the weasel on top of it?
WYVER: It's a tricky one, isn't it, but actually, weasels are very, very light. It's said that the head of a weasel could actually fit through a wedding ring.
MOOS: Wildlife experts tell us that a small weasel might weigh as much as a candy bar, so imagine a woodpecker flying around with this on its back.
Soon, the photo landed at the top of the Reddit's animals riding animals along with butterflies on an alligator, dog on a donkey and dog rides dog. The image known as #weaselpecker took off like the space shuttle.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
MOOS: Thanks for joining us, and be sure to record OUTFRONT to watch us anytime any night.
In the meantime, "AC360" starts now with Wolf Blitzer tonight.