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Latest on Bill Cosby's Admission; Donald Trump on Immigration. Aired 10-11:00p ET
Aired July 8, 2015 - 22:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: You have heard from the women who accused Bill Cosby. But there could be even more legal trouble ahead for him. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. We're going to get to the very latest on Cosby in just a moment, but our big story tonight is Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This man or this animal that shot the wonderful, that beautiful woman in San Francisco, this guy was pushed out by Mexico. We bring them back and they push him out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He is a mogul who wants to be your next president. But could the GOP learn a lesson or two from Donald Trump. And is he putting them between a rock and a hard place on immigration? I want you to listen to some of Anderson Cooper's interview with Donald Trump. Things get pretty heated when the discussion turn to a link between a legal immigration and crime. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: But there are -- I mean, I just talked about there are reports. I've got to look at a bunch of studies here that say, there's actually no correlation between illegal immigration and crime. And that, in fact...
TRUMP: Oh, come on. Come one.
COOPER: ... the immigrants actually commit crimes at a lower number.
TRUMP: Anderson, you're not a baby. OK. You're not a baby.
COOPER: I'm not saying they are...
TRUMP: The illegal immigrants coming in are causing tremendous problems. In terms of crime. In terms of murder. In terms of rape. In terms of...
COOPER: Let me take you to where it started. Northwestern University, cited by The Washington Post says, essentially no correlation between illegal immigration violent crime, few research center using figures and University of Massachusetts found, "The crime rate among first generation immigrants those who have come from this country from somewhere else, significantly lower than the overall crime rate in that6 of the second generation."
TRUMP: Anderson, if somebody is an illegal immigrant they shouldn't be here at all. They shouldn't be any crime. They're not supposed to be in our country. They're supposed to be -- and I'm not just talking Mexico.
TRUMP: Excuse me. They're coming from all over the world. I'm not just talking about Mexico.
COOPER: We're talking with America as well. But you're saying that there is a correlation between...
TRUMP: Well, excuse me. And you're probably talking about the Middle East and you're talking about other places. The southern border is a disaster. I'm speaking this weekend in Arizona. They say the crowd is going to be enormous. Somebody said I'm the most popular person in Arizona because I'm speaking the truth. Those people are living with it. When I look at Rick Perry, he talks about the border; he did a terrible job at the border. He was governor of Texas. He could have done a much better job than he did. He did a terrible job along that.
COOPER: So, you don't believe these studies. You don't believe -- you said there is a correlation between crimes and you don't believe...
TRUMP: No, I don't believe these studies, number one. But even if the studies were correct. I'm not correlation. When you have illegal immigrants coming in, if they commit crime, they're not supposed to be here.
COOPER: You did indicate that the people coming across the border were raping 80 percent of the women...
TRUMP: I can -- excuse me. You are putting things.
COOPER: All right. So, talk to them.
TRMP: Read the article. Did you pull up the article?
COOPER: I did. I pulled up the article.
TRUMP: Now, that article was written by Fusion.
TRUMP: You know who owns Fusion?
COOPER: Yes, Univision.
TRUMP: You know who I'm suing? Univision.
TRUMP: But they have a big problem with my lawsuit. So, let me just tell you something. Univision comes out like I'm so bad person. Univision is being sued by me. The thing that they own is Fusion and they're talking about 80 percent rapes. I didn't make that up.
COOPER: In that article it says, its corrupt officials, its traffickers, its gangs...
TRUMP: Sure, whatever it is.
COOPER: ... and also migrants.
TRUMP: Whatever it is.
COOPER: Inside Mexico.
TRUMP: But as I said before, it's called rape. It is rape. And it's happening. And it's a shame. And it's horrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I can't wait to hear what my next guest thinks about all of this. Jan Brewer is a former governor of Arizona who, five years ago, signed one of the toughest immigration laws in this country and she joins me now. Governor, thank you. I appreciate it.
JAN BREWER, FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR: Thank you, Don. It's great to be with you.
LEMON: You know, Donald Trump is sticking to his guns and all things immigration and he is headed to your state this weekend. How are his comments resonating in your state?
BREWER: I believe that Mr. Trump is kind of telling it like it really truly is. You know, being the governor of the gateway of illegal immigration for six years, we had to deal with a lot of things. I think that the people of Arizona realize that we picked up the tab for the majority of the violence that comes across to our border when regards to the drug cartels, the smugglers, the drop houses. It has been horrendous. And, of course, they come through Arizona and, therefore, end up in other states and go throughout the country.
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: So, you think he's right?
BREWER: And it is -- well, no, I think everybody knows that he's right in regards to that the coming across our border. You know, we have incarceration dollars owed to us by the federal government for incarcerating a lot of these people early on. And it wasn't only during my administration; it was during Governor Napolitano's administration, too. You know, a little under a million dollars for just incarceration for worst periods of time. And the federal government never...
LEMON: So, governor, if I will...
BREWER: ... that were never reimbursed us for.
LEMON: OK. If you let me get in here, but how do you respond to the studies, the studies that I gave to Donald Trump? The studies that Anderson read to Donald Trump as well. That say, crime doesn't increase in border states or states where people come across the border?
[22:05:09] BREWER: Well, I find it interesting that people, you know, a thousand miles away can rely on whatever statistics they want to rely on. And they can come up with any data they want to. But if you come to Arizona and you talk to people that live on the border, you talk to people that live in Arizona, you will find that, you know, the facts are not true. We know from their data, from the federal data, that they only stop or apprehend one out of four illegal people crossing our border.
LEMON: You know, Trump also says...
BREWER: So, we don't even know how many are here.
LEMON: He -- Trump also says that Mexican governments, that they are pushing people across the border. And that's why we saw that awful murder in San Francisco. Listen to what he has to say and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Excuse me.
COOPER: What evidence do you have that the government since that --
TRUMP: Everybody knows it. This man or this animal that shot the wonderful, that beautiful woman in San Francisco, this guy was pushed out by Mexico. We bring him back and they push him out. Mexico pushes back people across the border that are criminals, that are drug dealers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes. The way he's saying it is turning a lot of people off. But you believe that he is speaking the truth. Do you think that he should change his tone or apologize for anything that he's said?
BREWER: Well, I haven't heard everything that Donald Trump has said. I just know what I have lived through being resident and governor of the State of Arizona. That we have a horrendous problem. And we got an illegal immigration problem in our country. And I think the people overwhelmingly understand and realized that. And we have to find a solution and that solution is giving our border secured so we can deal with the other issues.
LEMON: Yes. Governor, I want to put this up. I'm just getting this and we're hearing it at the same time, just reading it. And it's coming from our congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, senior congressional correspondent. "That RNC Chairman Reince Priebus discussed his concern with Donald Trump about the billionaire's tone when talking about immigration, illegal immigrants in a private telephone conversation today." And that's according to a republican source familiar with the call.
They discussed a range of topics according to the source. But at the end, Priebus said, "Trump, look, I've got to tell you, I spent four years trying to make and rose in Hispanic community, how we address illegal immigration is very important to winning back Hispanics politically." That's according to the GOP source. Basically, he's saying, you need to tone it down, Donald Trump. What's your response to that?
BREWER: Well, you know, and I admire our national chairman. He has done a wonderful, wonderful job. But I do believe the bottom line is that we know we've got a problem. And why is it that we want to not look at the fact that people are illegal. They're coming into our country illegally. And along with the immigrants that are coming for work, there are others that are coming for criminal reasons.
And they let them go and they let them go and they let them go and deport them and then they come right back and commit other crimes. You know, we're a country that we believe and we support the rule of law. And if we're out there saying, well, we don't support the law, then we'd be crazy, too.
LEMON: How do we do it, how do you it then?
BREWER: You know, where is it coming from the left or the right?
LEMON: How do you do it? Because governor...
BREWER: How do you know they are coming at you?
LEMON: ... Trump said that you should build a wall immediately and make Mexico pay for it. Is that the best way to do it? What's the solution?
BREWER: I know that we need to do something and we need to secure our border. We can do that with building a wall, we can do it with technology, we can do it with boots on the ground. But we know that we can secure that border. They did a pretty darned good job in California, what they can't they do it in Arizona?
But they haven't because they don't want to. For whatever the reason is, I will tell you, earnestly, I believe that with all the issues, that all of this illegal immigration has caused in this country, if we don't get the border secured, we're never going to find a solution. We're never going to find a solution.
LEMON: Do you think that the other candidates, considering what Reince Priebus - the conversation that they had. And according to the guidance that they had, he was returning a call from Donald Trump I don't think he initiated the call. But considering the tone of the conversation what he said to him according to the source, do you think that the other candidates, the GOP candidates, are afraid of Donald Trump?
BREWER: No, I don't think that the other candidates are afraid of Donald Trump. We know that this issue is very volatile. We know that I believe that lay set -- that the majority of the people in our country understand that we are facing a big dilemma and a huge problem.
And we have lots of things that we need to solve. But the first thing we need to do is to secure our border. This has not changed in the last 8, 9, 10 years. Even my hero, Ronald Reagan, you know, he said that he would secure the border and give amnesty to people way back, and what that, '96. And then it hasn't happened.
[22:10:00] And again, we heard President Obama say that he was going to secure the border. He hasn't secured it either. So, when are we going to get a result? It's just a lot of rhetoric; it would seem to me that just continually goes on and on and on. The American people realize that we need a secure border.
BREWER: So that we can deal with the other issues.
LEMON: Yes. And it would be in the '80s for Ronald Reagan.
LEMON: Governor, I really appreciate your time -- right, yes, and your expertise on this. Because again, former governor of Arizona, you know about these issues. I appreciate it, governor. Thank you.
BREWER: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. Now, I want to turn to Henry Cisneros, he was Housing Secretary for President Bill Clinton and is the author of "Latinos and the Nation's Future. Thank you for joining us, secretary. What do make of -- did you hear what I said about Reince previous' call with Donald Trump today?
HENRY CISNEROS, FORMER HOUSING SECRETARY: I did hear it. And I think he did the right thing in telling Trump to tone it down. I'm here tonight because I haven't heard anyone speak for the Latino community in the Unites States and the immigrants themselves. My mother was born in Mexico. I was born in San Antonio, Texas, had the honor of serving as mayor and a cabinet officer in this country in this government.
And I know these people. The immigrants, as well as the 55 million others who constitute the Latino population of the Unites States. And these things that are being said are just unfair. Trump is basically involved in a media play. He knows how to use provocative language, how to inflame, how to create a distinction for himself in the field of 14 republican candidates.
LEMON: But what do you say that someone...
CISNEROS: No one can say it doesn't work. But it's the one thing to do.
LEMON: But what do you say, secretary to someone like Governor Brew who says, you know, I'm in the state. We're at the tip of the sphere here. We know what's happening. There are issues that come with crime; there are issues that come with money. Our economy can't sustain it. What do you say to her?
CISNEROS: Well, I would say several things. First of all, we have a better border enforcement than we've ever had. There have been times when effectively, the flow was virtually down to zero, between the economy and also the wall and the helicopters and the technology. All of that has worked in some very powerful ways. All across the 2000- mile border.
I'm from Texas. We have 1,000 miles of the 2,000 miles of the border with Mexico. And I know that there's been much more effective than it has been in the past. So, border security is an important element of what we have to do. But we also have to work on the reality that we have 12 million undocumented people in this country.
And we can rail at the moon about the border forever. But we're not solving the problem of 12 million people who are living in the shadows who are not making the contribution that could to our economy. And I would say, 99.9 percent of them are hard-working, God-fearing, family- loving people who are in the spirt of American immigrants who built this country. Now, to be sure...
LEMON: Mr. Secretary.
CISNEROS: ... there are always going to be a percentage of people who are a criminal element and have to be dealt with. And God forbid, we should have repetitions of the situations we saw in San Francisco. Just last week, that's a tragedy and everything has to do...
LEMON: I don't doubt that what you said that they're God-fearing people and they're good people. But I think I know what Donald Trump would say in the situation. He would probably say but those people, even if it's 12 million who are living here in the shadows, they came across the border illegally. They have broken the law. It doesn't make -- so it does not make it right. CISNEROS: They came -- they came to do work the country needed to do.
They were brought across the border to do work that other Americans wouldn't do. These are the people who work at in stoop labor in the crops on Saturdays and Sundays in California and Nevada and Washington State. Raising the food and picking the food that we eat.
LEMON: But that still does not address the illegal aspect of it.
CISNEROS: Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Because we -- every major American figure from Ted Kennedy to John McCain, starting in the early 2000s, has agreed on a formula that has three elements. Border security, a creation of some sort of legal status from the 12 million people who are here. Critical point, Don. Because no one can seriously advocate deporting 12 million people. And so, we've got to address that.
And this rhetoric, this hyped up, inflamed rhetoric doesn't solve the problem. The fundamental issue that we've got. And that's what serious people have to do. And, God forbid, we should have a presidential campaign which is allowed to become a media circus, a side show in this way, attacking people, hurting people who are hard-working people, who are here doing the work the country wants done and needs to have done. And just distract from the real question of how are we going to create a workable immigration system at the border, in legalization at the place of work and, eventually, a path to citizenship as well.
[22:15:01] LEMON: Secretary, I appreciate your time and your expertise on this as well. Henry Cisneros, former housing secretary. I appreciate it.
CISNEROS: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: All right. We've got a lot more to come on Donald Trump. When we come right back, the man who says Trump is not a serious candidate. He calls him reality show character. That is Montel Williams. He is here. He is next.
LEMON: Montel Williams is calling out Donald Trump saying it's reckless and wrong to imply that undocumented immigrants are largely murderers and rapists. And Montel is with me tonight. And as I like call him, Montel it like it is because he always does.
You heard Governor Jan Brewer, you heard the former Secretary Henry Cisneros. What do you make -- first, let's start with Governor Jan Brewer. What do you make of her response?
MONTEL WILLIAMS, TV HOST & ACTIVIST: I can say that anybody would listen to what she has to say with her experience as a governor, you're not offended when she says what she is saying about the issues facing her and her state. She's not saying it in an offensive way. But when you listen to the secretary and the secretary clearly says, OK, I get what the problems that we are pointing to at the border. We do have to solve that issue. But we also have to solve the issue of
the fact that there are 12 million people here that are undocumented, whether we got here, whichever way you think they got here, it doesn't matter. They're doing the jobs that we don't let our children do. And some of them have relatives who have gone off to fight in wars.
[22:20:00] There's 55 million Hispanics who should be respected as true citizens of this country, some of which who fought in war for us. And Donald needs to remember that as he disparages these entire races of people. But there's ways to say things that aren't offensive.
LEMON: And he's not...
WILLIAMS: And Donald is only doing this because he's got a different objective.
LEMON: Well, he's not just saying things though. He's also tweeting, right. He's going on social media. So, I want you to watch another moment from an interview where Trump is asked about something that he retweeted about Jeb Bush and his wife. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Let me ask you, as I said, you've been very vocal in media, very accessible. You're on Twitter. There was a retweet that calls you problems that was resend. It was a retweet about Jeb Bush's wife.
COOPER: That the original tweets of Jeb Bush has to like the Mexican illegals because of his wife. That was somebody else said that you retweeted it. Did you authorize that or do you retweet that?
TRUMP: No, I didn't authorize it. I don't regret anything. Look, some -- it was a retweet. It wasn't me. And it was actually, if you look at it carefully, it was a retweet of a right bright story that was a very good story, a very fair story, a very strong story, a very good story. But do I regret -- no, I don't regret it. I mean, you know, look the -- I would say that he would -- if my wife were from Mexico, I think I would have a soft spot for people from Mexico. I can understand that.
COOPER: You think that influences his position on illegal immigration?
TRUMP: I think it could. I mean, maybe it should. If he loves his wife, and I know he does, she's a lovely woman, by the way. So, if he loves his wife and she's from Mexico, I think it probably has an influence on him, yes. I can understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, he's not backing down. And Montel, I have to say that your brand new op-ed talks about some of this stuff. It's on CNN.com, right? And you say this, you said, he's America's reality show candidate. But let's be real. Folks at home are tuning into this Trump show. WILLIAMS: Yes, and we're feeding into it. I'm so sorry I have to put
it this way. But unfortunately, he is nothing more than a carnival barker. And he's barking at all sort of sudden glamming on to these females. If he continues to say the things he's saying, there's no possible way to be president of the Unites States.
So, are you kidding? Do you think he can make that comment about the president of Iraq? Or his wife or the president of Germany's husband? Do you think he could disparage another person's family member that way and not cause an international incident? This is nothing more than a side show. He is a reality show host; he knows how to play the media. And we are playing into it because we're turning what should be a very serious presidential election campaign into a Donald Trump side show or for...
LEMON: Do you think we've been talking about it if it were not for Donald Trump?
WILLIAMS: I will tell you something. I think the other candidates right now are allowing this side show to run on because they're afraid to say maybe points that he's making. But, unfortunately, we would rather listen to the real people who want to actually run this country.
This is no way to make America better. This is a way to run a Donald Trump reality run for president show. United show, eight years ago called American candidate, where we took real people from around the country who wanted to try to run for president and we did a reality show.
He is just like one of them. And he's playing you. He's played us with, you know, you're fired. He's playing you with, you know, apprentice. He's played us and I think it's time for us to stop being played by Donald trump.
LEMON: But it's worked.
WILLIAMS: And let real people to speak.
LEMON: But even you say that his comments give the rest of the GOP an opportunity to reach out to Latino voters. And the question is, will they seize this opportunity...
LEMON: ... even if he's playing everyone?
WILLIAMS: Yes. I think they're afraid to even step up to the plate and do their part now and denounce what he's saying. And, really relegate him to where he should be. I mean, honestly, I think it would be great if we just put everything he says beginning the half hour, put it aside, Kim Kardashians, it would be a great show to watch. It would be funny. But then I want to listen to people like, you know, the governor of
Ohio and some other candidates that are opponents out here running talking about real change in America and how we fix problems.
LEMON: All right.
WILLIAMS: That's what we should be doing. And, Don, listen to me, we have a lot of kids that are going to want to try to even invest in America after they've been so nailed, you know, -- honestly taught to disrespect this country because of, you know, what happen if with , you know, people who are selling secrets on those things. I want people that -- kids that want to be a part of the election process, not a part of a reality show. If they want to elect a reality personnel elect Kim Kardashian. And I think she would probably do just as good of a job as Donald Trump.
LEMON: Well, I, well, she's a good business.
WILLIAMS: Don't say that, let's be moderate, I'm sorry.
LEMON: Yes, did you just say that?
LEMON: Yes, you want to play about that.
WILLIAMS: Oh, man, well, I'm sorry.
LEMON: All right.
WILLIAMS: Well, let's back up. Let's back that down. I meant that he's in the mix with the reality show. Let's talk with the real candidates.
[22:24:59] LEMON: All right. So, let's talk about this and then I'll rephrase the question that I asked when I said at least people are talking about illegal immigration right now. The GOP, for the most part.
LEMON: Especially in light of the San Francisco murder.
WILLIAMS: But they also should be talking about respecting a demographic that they don't have, you know, they're not reaching out to. They're making and casting these dispersions about one portion of a demographic of the society that has been traditionally mostly republicans.
LEMON: OK. Let me play devil's advocate here like I did with the secretary. So, why should the GOP -- some people would say that you're pandering. Why should you pander to someone or to a group of people who many believe are here illegally who broke the law to get into the country?
WILLIAMS: You're not pandering. What you're doing is you're ensuring the price of the vegetables that you get. And I'm so sorry. Remember, Donald Trump is hiring and has hired illegal people who have been in this country. Now the New York Times and other have reported. So, the truth is, we need those...
LEMON: He said contractor said that, by the way.
WILLIAMS: We should kind of grow. Yes, well, it does not to box stop with him, he's the boss. And if he pass and order, if people don't follow he ordered then those contractors should be fired -- have fired also. So, and if that's the guy you want to run the county, you want him to run a country when he can't even control those who worked for him in construction business? I don't think that's about making America better? I think that's about making Donald Trump and his brand bigger. And I don't know, looking at all the companies that keep pulling it out. Ask Donald, how is that working out for you?
LEMON: Montel it like it is, Williams. Thank you, sir. I'll see you back here soon.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. I'll see back. Thank you, sir.
LEMON: When we come right back, how candidate Trump is rocking the Republican Party. Is he painting them into a corner on immigration and would he really build a wall on the border?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will build a better wall and I'll build it for cheaper and Mexico will pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You could say that controversy is Donald Trump's middle name. But plenty of people like what he has to say. He is number two in the most recent CNN ORC poll. And let's get the republican establishment really scrambling.
Joining me now is Maeve Reston, CNN's national political reporter and also Ryan Lizza, CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent of The New Yorker. Good to see both of you. I want both of you to take a listen to what Donald Trump had to say about building a wall on the border. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will build a better wall and I will build it for cheaper and Mexico will pay. I bet that's your next question.
ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: Yes. How do you get them to pay for it?
TRUMP: Because they are ripping us left and right. By the way, I love the Mexican people. Many Mexican people work for me. Many Mexican people I do business with. They purchase things from me like apartments, et cetera, et cetera. I have great relationships with Mexico and with the Mexican people. I love the Mexican people. I love their spirit. Let me just tell you, Mexico is making an absolute fortune. Because the trade deals with the United States are phenomenal for them and horrible for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, is what he's saying that outlandish, Maeve?
MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITCAL REPORTER: I mean, how do you do that? How do you -- Anderson was trying to get him to answer the question, which is, how do you get Mexico to pay for an impenetrable wall that people in Congress have been trying to build for many years.
I mean, you think about the amount of money that's been spent on this already. The thing with Donald Trump is that he just says things in the presidential race without giving any explanation of how he's actually going to do it. And that's -- you don't get to do that in a presidential race.
So, I'm sure as this goes on for however long it goes on, we'll get to ask him more questions about how he will do some of these things. I just don't know if he will answer those questions as he did in that interview.
LEMON: And, Ryan, Yes, he said he's going to do it through trade deals, Ryan.
RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know I thought Michael Gerson of The Washington Post had a terrific quote about trying to analyze too deeply the policy recommendations of Donald Trump. Michael Gerson is a former George W. Bush speech writer and he said, "It's like trying to take a deep dive into a very shallow pool.
You know, I have no idea how Donald Trump thinks he's going to get Mexico to pay for a wall between United States and America. And apparently he thinks we're going to get the Iraqi, we're going to reinvade Iraq and take their oil to pay for his Middle East policies.
We haven't seen the fine print on those things. And I doubt, Don, that the fine print will be coming any time soon. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, we've got to take him for it is. You know, he sort of has these visceral policy ideas that sort of have a very superficial appeal. But I don't think there's a great policy stuff working on the Trump campaign, you know, turning out white papers to describing in detail how all of this is going to work in the real world.
LEMON: I'm not sure if you heard, Dana Bash is reporting tonight, so I just tell you, she's reporting that RNC chairman Reince Preibus had a private telephone conversation with Donald Trump today, where previous discussed his concern with Trump's tone when talking about illegal immigration. You think he's worried about what it's doing to the GOP? I'll start with you, Ryan. LIZZA: Yes, look. There have been two major strategies of the
establishment Republican Party since 2012. Remember, in 2010 and 2012, republicans probably lost, you know, half a dozen Senate seats in those two elections. And obviously, in 2012, they lost the presidential election. They won a Senate seats but they could have won more.
And the reasons most republican strategists believe is that during the primary season they had fringe marginal candidates who had too big a megaphone spoke only to the fringe of their party and alienated voters for the general. You know, people like Karl Rove and other strategist have been talking about this for the last four years.
The other big thing they've been talking about and Reince Priebus has made this his mission as head of the RNC, is you have -- if you want to attract Hispanic voters - which are the future of this country electorally for the Republican Party - you have to send a welcoming message.
[22:35:05] Because unless you make it clear that you welcome Latinos into this country, they won't listen to you on any of your other policies.
LIZZA: Donald Trump has taken a daisy cutter to both of those republican strategist in about a month's time. And so, I think that's why Reince Priebus was on the line with him tonight, you know, very gently asking him to tone it down.
LEMON: Yes, and that's a legitimate concern.
RESTON: And we also just want to say...
LEMON: Quickly, Maeve, for that I want to play something and I get your response, but, go ahead.
RESTON: Yes. Well, I want to say that my colleague, Jeremy Diamond at CNN Politics just talked to Trump's campaign manager. And their response on the Priebus reporting was that, you know, he was sure that that Donald Trump's fortitude on the immigration issue was going to be unshaken no matter who called him on the telephone. So, I'm not really sure that we're going to see a change in tone on that, you know, coming up in the coming weeks.
LEMON: Yes. And speaking of throwing a monkey wrench, I'm not sure if that's the exact terminology that Ryan used.
LIZZA: Daisy cutter.
LEMON: Daisy cutter. So, Anderson asked Trump this would be a huge daisy cutter. Anderson asked him what he would do if he didn't get the republican nomination. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You rule out the idea of running as an independent party candidate or third party candidate. If for some reason you don't get the GOP nomination.
TRUMP: Everybody asks me to do it. I have had so many people say would you run as an independent, would you run as the third party candidate. I think, you know, they see the kind of votes. I'd get a lot of votes. The best way of defeating the democrats, and probably Hillary, I think it's going to be Hillary, is to run as a republican. If I do the third party thing, it would be, I think very bad for the republicans. I think it would be very bad in terms of beating the democrats and we have to run.
COOPER: George H.W. Bush still points to Ross Perot as being the reason he didn't get re-elected. You don't want to be the Ross Perot.
TRUMP: Let me tell you, well, Ross Perot I know that poll didn't work -- had 19 percent of the vote. Ross Perot, had he not been there, you would have never heard of Bill Clinton. In my opinion, Bush would have gotten almost a hundred percent of those votes. Now, I actually spoke to Bill Clinton once, he said no, no, we're split 50-50. No. And that's the small thing for him to say. No way. Had Ross Perot not run, you would have never heard of Bill Clinton.
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LEMON: Maeve, your response.
RESTON: I don't know if the Clintons would agree with that statement certainly. But, I mean, but Donald Trump is right. He's probably not going to run as a third party candidate. There's really no big upside for him on that front unless he wants the kind of publicity that he's been getting over the last few weeks.
LEMON: Yes, Ryan.
LIZZA: I think we still would have heard Bill Clinton. He was the democratic presidential nominee in 1992. But that's the serious thing that Trump says. That he thinks he would elect the democrats if re runs as a third party candidate. He's right about that.
LEMON: I think a lot of the republicans are probably going, right?
LIZZA: Exactly. He would play a spoiler role.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, guys.
RESTOR: But this is an opportunity for them, definitely, so.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you. I appreciate it.
LIZZA: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Lots to talk about and we'll continue as we move towards Election Day. Coming up, the New York Stock Exchange, United Airlines, the Wall Street Journal, all of them took hits today. How worried should we be?
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: New York Stock Exchange, United Airlines, and the Wall Street Journal, digital site all resumed operations today after computer glitches shut them down for a while. Nearly 5,000 United flights worldwide were affected. And the trading at the Stock Exchange halted for almost four hours. Word is, hacking was not to blame. But how worried should we be? Should we be worried? I want to bring in now Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security analyst; she can help to answer that. Also Charles Tendell, a certified computer hacking forensic investigator.
Charles, how worried should we be? I was getting dressed for work today and I'm, like, my gosh, I got to get to work faster. We're -- maybe we're under attack.
CHARLES TENDELL, COMPUTER AMERICA RADIO CO-HOST: Well, thanks for having me, first of all. But, actually, this should be considered kind of a near miss or maybe kind of a wake-up call for the world. What if this had actually been a cyber-attack. Or, if it does come out that it is, you know, how in trouble are we going to be? So, you have a right to be a little worried.
LEMON: So, what happened then?
TENDELL: Well, that's -- we're going to wait for more details. I mean, everyone is saying that no, there wasn't any hack. No, there was no malicious intent. But I believe anonymous made a comment last night about the New York Stock Exchange, you know, maybe having some problems today. So, it's going to turn into more investigation, more people, and more boots on the ground. People have got to get more information before they start jumping to conclusions. But I'm not ruling out hacking just yet.
LEMON: All right. And a lot of people are not ruling at hacking, Juliette. The government and the company officials quickly investigate the ideologist and say that they are not connected. But, you know...
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONA SECURITY ANALYST: I lost the audio.
LEMON: OK. So, Juliette can't hear us. So, we'll go back then to Charles. So, a lot of people are saying it's not connected. But what assurances do we have that they're not connected. Charles? All right, we lost both of them. And that means we'll be right back.
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right, they're back with me. Juliette Kayyem, CNN's national security analyst, and Charles Tendell, a certified computer hacking forensic investigator. Of all segments, guys, to lose the satellite audio. Juliette, I mean, come on, if anybody should be worried, shouldn't we? But, seriously, why are people worried?
KAYYEM: That's a coincidence. So, here's what we don't know yet, which is obviously what actually happened. If it was a series of coincidences, I think it's really early to say that. What I am worried about, just looking at this, sort of forget who did it. It's just what actually happened today.
Two major enterprises that are part of our critical infrastructure, one financial, one transportation, had systemic failures that brought their whole systems down. Now, I don't understand why there weren't back-up systems, redundancies, ways in which these systems could sort of adapt or pivot so that they can continue to keep going.
That's what makes me worried. This is critical infrastructure. These are two major institutions that are responsible for, you know, transportation and our financial well-being. That's what I'm worried about, you know, until we get the answer of what in fact, happened at this stage.
LEMON: And, Charles, it does show really how vulnerable we are when you think of it and how dependent on computer systems and the internet that we are and rather just manual functions that we used to do in the old days.
TENDELL: Well, I mean, it really does bring it all to light. I mean, we've got computers in our cars, we've got them in our pockets, you know, they're all over planes. You know, it's the interconnectivity also brings extra vulnerability and extra exploitability. And you know, until people and companies and organizations start doing more to protect themselves, they're going to end up in this predicament.
LEMON: So, what happened, Charles, inside of companies today?
TENDELL: Well, inside of companies, at least a lot of my clients who run around and they were terrified. They were saying, is this some tip of the iceberg cyber-attack? Should we be more worried? I mean, if the Stock Exchange got hit with all of there, you know, epic and endless security how vulnerable are we? You know, there are COOs and CFOs running around right now who are sweats and bullets trying out how tomorrow are going to look and we're still not all the way out of it.
[22:50:04] LEMON: Are they testing their own systems, you think, do you think, Juliette now?
KAYYEM: Oh, absolutely. I mean, if I were a CEO or in-charge of any sort of major institutions at this stage, the two things I'd be looking at is, one, is there a single point of failure that can be exploited by an outsider or that if it goes down the entire system goes down. And then the other is, how long does it take to get the system backed up.
Let's just assume as we all know as rational human beings that systems fail. You can't make them perfect. You can't make them pristine from outside aggressors. Why does it take three and a half hours to bring it back up? Why does United took several hours that we have to be able to get these systems moving as quickly as possible. Those are the two major issues I'd be looking at now.
LEMON: Thank you, Juliette. Thank you, Charles. I hope we weren't hacked just then. Thanks for bearing with us. TENDELL: I hope not.
LEMON: Yes. Up next, Bill Cosby under fire with allegations against him in Los Angeles. Could he face arrest?
LEMON: The woman who sued Bill Cosby 10 years ago alleging he sexually assaulted her, now wants the full deposition from that case unsealed. That's the same deposition which Cosby admitted under oath to getting drugs with the intention he give them to women whom he wanted to have sex. Well, but there's another allegation that could give him even more trouble.
[22:54:59] So, joining me now is his defense attorney Tom Mesereau. Tom, good evening. Let's talk about that. Her name is Chloe Goins, she says that Cosby assaulted her in 2008 at the Playboy Mansion. Her lawyer believes she is the first accuser to have a case that falls within the statute of limitations, yet, no charges have been filed. Do you think that he -- that we might see an arrest?
THOMAS MESEREAU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, my understanding is that issue is on appeal. And she's claiming she was assaulted when she was underage. And the statues in California have been liberalized in recent years to allow people who are the victims of sex crimes, or at least allegedly the victims of sex crimes who claim they were under age to have more time to file claims.
That's still under review. There may be a case against him, I don't know. It's been a long time since this allegedly happened. And she's had a lot of years to make these claims and she didn't. So, we'll see what the California Supreme Court does with the issue.
LEMON: You know, the other day I saw you on CNN and you said something very interesting. That you said, we should not jump to conclusions about this information being released or unsealed because you wanted to see more context and not just one or two sentences. And there were people who are on this program who, you know, disagreed with you. What do you say to that?
MESEREAU: Well, you know, the information that was revealed was information contained in a motion by the opposing side, by the opposing lawyer. You have to assume that lawyer pulled out information he thought would be helpful to his position. There may be much broader context in this.
I mean, the question I have is did any of these women know he was offering them drugs, if he did? Did they consent to it? Did they know what the drug was? Did they know what the consequences could be? I don't know the answers to these questions and until I do I can jump to conclusions based on a few question and answers pulled out a context.
What is the context? Were there any other questions about this particular subject matter? I just don't know and I'd like to know.
LEMON: What grounds does Cosby have to fight the rest of the deposition being released? Does he have any?
MESEREAU: Well, again, apparently, the judge made an initial decision that all of these was to be sealed. He's now changed his mind reportedly based upon Bill Cosby giving public statements. There is an old saying, "People in quail's houses shouldn't drill stones." If he had some skeletons in his closet, he probably would have been better being a lot more quiet about his position on alleged criminal activity and society.
But that was his freedom. I mean, he was allowed to go and opine, if he wanted to. But, again, I don't know why all of these women are coming out so late. And the question is, if they took drugs, did they do it willingly, intentionally, and with consent? If he gave women drugs and didn't tell what he was doing and they had no idea what he was, that's a hideous, monstrous act.
On the other hand, if this was the '70s where cocaine and Quaaludes and all sorts of drugs are being freely dispensed in nightclubs at parties, people were doing it on both sides of society. Everybody was doing it, men, women, rich, poor, you name it.
The question is, what did they consent to? What did they understand was going on? But if they had no idea they were getting drugs, if they woke up not wondering -- wondering what had happened to them, that's a monstrous crime. If he did it, that if he really did.
LEMON: It sounds like a defense for Cosby. It sounds like you are Cosby's defense attorney right now. I do have to say this one that we're talking about now is 2008, though, Tom?
MESEREAU: Well, again, I don't know the context. I don't know what really happened. How old is she now? Do you know?
LEMON: No. I think she's in her 30s -- in her 20s. If it was just from 2008, she would be in her 20s. Because she was saying, I think she said she was 14 at the time.
MESEREAU: Right. Well, under the liberalized statutes for civil claims, she may actually have a case.
MESEREAU: My understanding is that's under appellate review or further review. So, we'll see what happens.
MESEREAU: But I don't -- I'm not going -- listen, I defended Michael Jackson in this case. Society had absolutely condemned them, convicted him before he had a chance to speak out. The prosecutor's claim they had alleged victims from 10 years before. They tried to bring in evidence of all of this. And he was acquitted on every single account. Fourteen not guilty.
So, I've been through this drill before. And I'm not going to condemn him until I know all the information.
LEMON: And I was right. She said she was 14 at the time, 14 or 15, she's 25 now. So, you know, she would be underage back then. And you're right, the reason I found it interesting on what you said is because you did defend Michael Jackson when public opinion was not on his side. I just have a few seconds.
MESEREAU: Well, I've been, again, people are innocent until proven guilty. And I don't know what all the information is and I have to see it.
[22:59:58] LEMON: Thank you very much, Thomas Mesereau. I always appreciate your candor here. That's it for us tonight. Thank you for joining us. I'm Don Lemon. AC360 starts right now.