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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Takes Verbal Shots at Senator John McCain's Vietnam War Record; Remembering Soldiers killed in the Chattanooga Shooting; Details of Planning for Prison Escape; Cosby Admits Drugging Women in 2005 Deposition; Surfer Attacked by Shark on Live TV. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 20, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:17] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks very much for joining us. We got breaking news tonight on a number of fronts starting with new polling showing a big lead for Republican contender Donald Trump and potentially big caveat. That from ABC News/"Washington Post," it shows Mr. Trump with an 11-point lead over Wisconsin governor Scott Walker, a 12 point lead over Jeb Bush, and the rest of the field in single digits.
Now, what makes this poll so potentially significant is that a portion of it was taken after Mr. Trump took that verbal shot at Senator John McCain's Vietnam War record and that portion could say a lot.
Brianna Keilar is digging deeper on that and all the Trump blowbacks. She joins us now -- Brianna.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson.
Overall, this is a big number, a huge lead for Donald Trump at 24 points. But take note this was a poll that was conducted before and after Trump made these comments about John McCain. And when you look at the final night of polling, after he made these remarks, you see a sharp dip in the polls.
KEILAR (voice-over): Donald Trump touching off a political firestorm this weekend by insulting former Republican presidential nominee John McCain.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I supported him. He lost. He let us down. But, you know, he lost. So I never liked him as much after that. Because I don't like losers. But, frankly. Let me get to it. He is a war he hero. He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured, OK? I hate to tell you. He is a war hero because he was captured. OK. You can have, and I believe, perhaps he is a war hero. But right now he said some very bad things about a lot of people.
KEILAR: Almost immediately. Trump's remarks grew scrutiny.
TRUMP: I like the people that don't get captured. And I respect the people who do get captured. KEILAR: McCain, a Navy pilot during the Vietnam War was shot down,
held prisoner and beaten for more than five years in Hanoi even refusing early release. Still, Trump has not backed down claiming in a "USA today" op-ed that his comments were misconstrued by the media trying on the "Today show" to turn criticism of McCain to issues like the VA scandal.
TRUMP: I am not a fan of John McCain. He has done a terrible job for the vets.
KEILAR: McCain himself took the high road this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Does Donald Trump owe you an apology?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: No, I don't think so. But I think he may owe an apology to the families of those who have sacrificed in conflict and those who have undergone the prison experience in serving their country.
KEILAR: But Trump's Republican opponents jumped at the chance to denounce his comments -- Jeb Bush.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a legitimate hero that has served his country in lots of ways. And Mr. Trump knows that. He should just apologize. I think you have probably moving on to the next thing. Next week there will be another one on this.
KEILAR: Marco Rubio.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not just absurd, it is offensive. It is ridiculous. And I do think it is disqualifier as commander-in-chief.
KEILAR: And Lindsey Graham who was joined by McCain at an event in New York this afternoon.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To anybody who suggests that John and his fellow POWs are somehow lacking in the title of being called American hero, you shouldn't be our commander- in-chief because you don't know our military.
KEILAR: Ted Cruz who stands to benefit if Trump gets out of the race would not take a position.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I recognize that folks in the press love to see Republican on Republican violence. And so, you want me to say something bad about Donald Trump, or bad about John McCain or bad about anyone else. I'm not going to do it.
COOPER: Brianna, it is interesting, Donald Trump is saying now that the other candidates have not been talking about veterans issues. And he says just like he brought illegal immigration to the floor that he is bringing veterans issues to the fore. That's not really the case though. I mean, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, Lindsey Graham, they all talked about veterans' issues on the campaign trail.
KEILAR: That's right. And Rick Perry, one of two vets who is running along with Lindsey Graham, you saw him surrounded by veterans during his announcement. He has made it a big issue. Lindsey Graham recently retired from the jag course. So, he is personally provided some service there.
I think a lot of Republicans would look at that, Anderson, and they would say that that is just a deflection, that they would actually like to talk about veterans' issues because it is actually something that they would use to criticize the Obama administration and the VA scandal that happened under that administration. And they would find ways to criticize how the president has dealt with it.
At this point, I think they say, when you see what Donald Trump is talking about. He is not really talking Veterans issues so much as really kind of defending his character. And they would make the case that he should apologize so that issues instead could be discussed.
[20:05:13] COOPER: Brianna Keilar, appreciate the reporting.
Before bringing in the panel, and just so everyone is on the same page, we do want to play for you what Donald Trump said in a fuller context so you can judge for yourself what to make of it. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Referring to people as rapists, referring to John McCain, a war hero, five-and-a-half years as POW, you call him a dummy, is that appropriate in running for president?
TRUMP: You have to let me speak, though, Frank because you interrupt all the time. OK. So, you know, I know him too well. That's the problem. Let's take John McCain. I am in Phoenix. We have a meeting that is going to have 500 people at the Biltmore hotel. We get a call from the hotel. It is turmoil. Thousands and thousands of people are showing up. Three, four days before, they're pitching tents on the hotel grass. The hotel says we can't handle this. Going to destroy the hotel. We move it to the convention center. We have 15,000 people, the biggest one ever. Bigger than Bernie Sanders, bigger than a 15,000 showed up. Bigger than anybody. And everybody knows it. A beautiful day with incredible people that were wonderful, great Americans.
I will tell you. John McCain goes, "oh, boy, Trump makes my life difficult. He had 15,000 crazies show up." Crazies. He called them all crazy. I said they weren't crazy. They were great Americans. These people, if you would have seen these people. I know what a crazy is. I know all about crazies. These weren't crazy. So he insulted me. And he insulted everybody in the room. And I said somebody should run against John McCain who has been, you know, in my opinion not so hot and I supported him. I supported him for president. I raised a million dollars for him. That's a lot of money. I supported him. He lost. He let us down. But, you know, he lost. So I never liked him as much after that because I don't like losers. But, Frank, let me get to tip. He hit me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: He's a war hero. Five-and-a-half years.
TRUMP: He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. OK. I hate to tell you. He is a war hero because he was captured. OK. And I believe, perhaps he is a war hero. But right now he said some very bad things about a lot of people.
COOPER: So with that on the table. That's the full context. We are joined tonight by "The New York Times" op-ed columnist, Charles Blow, also former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord, currently he is the contributing editor with "American Spectator" and joining us by phone is former CBS News' investigative journalist Sharyl Attkisson, she is currently host the upcoming full measure with Sharyl Attkisson. In addition, she is the author of "stone fall my fight for truth against the forces of obstruction, intimidation and harassment in Obama's Washington."
Jeffrey, let me start with you. This is, obviously, not the first time Donald Trump has been unapologetic after making statements he has made. In your mind was he taken out of context? Do people misunderstand what he was saying?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
COOPER: Really? How so?
LORD: Yes, I absolutely think he was taken out of context.
Anderson, you know, I actually think that the biggest news from today on this subject was not the poll, but Rush Limbaugh spending a considerable portion of his show addressing his very conservative audience about how this is a teachable moment in terms of how the media treats conservatives and that they, somebody makes a misstatement or, something that the media wants to emphasize, statement x, they zero in him and go after them until they sort of put their tail between their legs and apologize and leave. And Donald Trump is not doing this. It was Rush's point. And that this kind of thing happens all the time. And he that, you know, this is going to only help Donald Trump because he is --
COOPER: Do you believe this was a misstatement? I mean, do you believe this was an inappropriate comment?
LORD: I think he said several times, he said several times that John McCain is a hero. I certainly believe John McCain is a hero. But you know, I find it utterly fascinating that when John McCain was running for president, and all sorts of people, in the media, and in the political scene, on the left, came after John McCain. They called him a psycho. He was mentally, I looked this up today, mentally unstable. He had no business being in the oval office. Where were all these people who are so indignant now about John McCain then? I mean, they were quiet as church mice.
COOPER: We should mention that Trump is now saying this is not really about John McCain as a war hero but rather protecting veterans' rights.
COOPER: Do you believe that or do you believe he is trying to pivot off what is clearly a, something --
LORD: No. I do think. You know, in all candid, Anderson, I think that a lot of American veterans believe that the whole VA situation is for lack of a better phrase is a domestic Benghazi. It is a mess.
COOPER: Well, of course it is.
LORD: And they can't get the truth about things. And people are, you know, literally dying in some of these hospitals. The one in Phoenix has had all kind of problems.
[20:10:10] COOPER: Right. We have done extensive reporting on it.
LORD: Right. Right. So the point is Senator McCain has been in the United States Senate for a long time, and so have some of these other public officials been in office, you know, why is this the case? Why wasn't this taken care of? I do thing that center is out there.
COOPER: Charles, what do you make of Donald Trump's comments about McCain and the way he sort of moved past it the last day or so?
CHARLES BLOW, OP-ED COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES: I mean, I think it is a joke. I think the whole thing is a joke. I think, you know, Trump, the candidacy itself is a joke. I actually revel in the whole idea of watching this.
COOPER: You are saying it is a joke. He is the leading Republican.
BLOW: No. But the question is whether or not this is a serious political candidate? Right? So I can offer serious political commentary on serious candidates. But you can't do that for this person because I don't believe that Trump actually wants to be president. And I don't believe that he takes this, this whole candidacy seriously. I believe that it is all brand building for him. There is no separation between Trump the man and Trump the brand.
COOPER: You don't believe if he actually thought he was going to get to the White House that he would continue?
BLOW: I think that every candidate has a smidgen of ego, smidgen of what if it actually worked out. I also belief that probably, you know, a third of the people who run don't actually want to be president, but they want the free publicity, the increased exposure.
COOPER: I don't know that they don't want to be president, they certainly may not expect it. But they do want -- it helps them on the speaking circuit. Donald Trump doesn't need help on the speaking circuit?
BLOW: Well, I don't know. I think it absolutely helps with the segment of the population who are more amenable to his products, right? But maybe they're going to the golf course or staying at the hotel or buying the tie.
COOPER: I don't know about that.
BLOW: There is an aspirational wealth component. I'm sorry, I wasn't talking to you.
There is a brashness component to it. There is, you know, tell it like it is because I need someone to speak for me. All of that build into the brand that is Donald Trump.
COOPER: Sharyl, you said some in the media have taken liberties with what Trump said about John McCain. Saying it was quote "at best questionable." What do you mean about that?
SHARYL ATTKISSON, JOURNALIST (via phone): Well, I only examined the small slice, what you are talking about, and that is "the Washington Post" article in lead sentence misquoted Trump as saying that John McCain was not a war hero because he was captured. When in fact if you heard, he said John McCain is a war hero because he was captured.
You can argue as to whether the statements were appropriate or what he meant. The fact is, Trump did not use the word not in that sentence. And I'm any just looking at it from a journalistic accuracy standpoint.
COOPER: But he did initially say he is not a war hero. And then he said he is a war hero because he was captured. And "the Washington Post" in that very article you are talking about, reference as a sarcastic, sarcastic manner. You didn't seem take note of the sarcasm.
ATTKISSON: No, absolutely he was sarcastic. I'm taking to see what the lead paragraph, and the caption that said quite plainly something that I wouldn't have been allowed to report or should I have been, through our lawyers at CBS, nor would I allowed to report in Journalism College that Donald Trump said John McCain was not a war hero because he has been captured. He didn't say it.
And again, it doesn't mean what he said was any better. I'm not arguing that point. I'm arguing our responsibility to be precise even when it is something we don't agree with or candidates we dent like.
COOPER: Of course. And Sharyl, it is interesting because Trump actually pointed to your article in a press release or in a tweet, I think it was, but he linked to your article praising your mention of that. Do you believe in general, because Trump today has been, you know, on the "Today" show and other, had said he believes, you know, many in the media are, either misquoting him or basically coloring their coverage of him?
ATTKISSON: Well, I haven't watched enough to know. But what I have seen today and what you just played was perfectly accurate and in context. And I think did the story, you know, absolute justice. But what happened when the frenzy was building, I didn't watch. I read that main "Washington Post" article on itself, and it didn't match what was in the first paragraph. And I just thought it was notable from a media, you know, journalism standpoint. That is a liberty I don't think we would have seen, five, ten years ago in an outlet like that. And I, certainly, wouldn't have been allowed, like I said, to do that even in Journalism College.
COOPER: Jeffrey, with the McCain war hero comments aside. Trump did in fact say he liked people who weren't captured. Later on in the press conference right after, which some called kind of damage control, is very contentious press conference. You know, he said he has respect for those who were captured and he likes those who weren't captured. Did that make sense to you? If it wasn't, if he doesn't -- if he truly doesn't think John McCain, or if he does believe John McCain is a war hero. Does it make sense if he says he likes people who weren't captured?
[20:15:20] LORD: Well, you know, we get into this parsing of word here. I mean the central, Anderson, to me at least, the central core point her is this is a guy who has given millions of dollars literally to build, you know, the Vietnam War memorial in New York City, to promote veterans parade, to help veterans. And you know, we are getting into this kind of thing. This is precisely the point that Rush makes. We spend hours and hours and hours and whole weekend and weeks doing this when the main issue, in this case, veterans' or illegal immigration or whatever is totally off.
COOPER: In all fairness, isn't this also what Rush Limbaugh does? He plays sound bites on his show and discusses them in great detail. I mean, that's what -- that's what he does. So it is a little disingenuous to suddenly say we are picking on words here?
LORD: Well, you know, I listen to Rush every day for three hours. So I think that, you know the media representation of Rush is not exactly what the actual Rush show is.
COOPER: I agree on that.
LORD: I mean, he gives a lot of context.
COOPER: No. And I agree with you on that. I mean, I am not making a blanket statement about him. But I do think, you know, plenty of people on the radio take sound bites and play them and (INAUDIBLE) on them.
LORD: I guess my point, Anderson, is that the base, if you will, the conservative base of the -- conservative movement of the Republican Party certainly feels that the media does this to various conservative figures over years including Rush Limbaugh, I might add.
LORD: And that the end result desired is to get the guy who ever it is off the stage. And here you have Donald Trump saying, you know, not only am I not going, I am going to double down. You are not going to, you know, get me out of here.
COOPER: Right. Arguably I agree with you that. Arguably, you could also say it happened to many democratic politicians. It happened to Howard Dean. Look at him. You know, played the scream over and over and over again whether, you know, and obviously he took great issue with that.
We got to leave the discussion there. Sharyl Attkisson, I appreciate you being on. Good to have you on, of course, Jeffrey Lord, always, Charles Blow, as well.
Quick reminder, make sure you set your DVR. You can watch "360" whenever you want.
Coming up just ahead, I'm going to talk to the mother of one of the fallen Chattanooga marines about watching the child she remembers and the man he became. I really wanted to talk to her not only to express condolences, but also just to give you a sense and to allow her to give you a sense of what this young man's loss, not only means to her, but to the country as well. And we hope to do this for many of the fallen in the coming days.
Later, breaking news about how David Sweat and Richard Matt broke out of prison. New details even more remarkable than what we already knew.
[20:21:25] COOPER: Having devoted the top of this broadcast to what a political candidate said about a volunteer in a war that he, himself, chose not to take pardon by his own omission. We want to focus on the war that is going on right now.
Right now American servicemen and women are being targeted and killed overseas and here at home in the United States. Each one volunteered. And it's hard to imagine that any spends much time thinking about what constitutes heroism. They're simply doing their job. And they give their lives in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Fort Hood, Texas and last week in Chattanooga.
Four marine and on sailor. Marine gunnery sergeant, Thomas Sullivan, marine staff sergeant David Wyatt, marine sergeant Carson Holmquist, Navy petty officer Randall Smith, and marine lance corporal Square "Skip" Wells.
Now, we are learning much more about the gunman who murdered them. However, that is going to come second tonight after we tell you about a young man. We want to honor the lives of the five volunteers. That comes first.
Earlier today I has the honors speaking with Cathy Wells, lance corporate Wells' mom.
COOPER: Cathy thank you so much for being with us in your time of grief. And again, I'm so sorry for your loss. You and I spoke a little earlier on the phone. If you would just tell us about skip. What kind of guy was he?
CATHY WELLS, MOTHER OF LANCE CORPORAL SQUARE SKIP WELLS; He was a great kid. He was a good boy growing up. He was a great kid. He loved, loved the military. Always loved whatever branch he would see somebody in the grocery store and he would go up and shake their hand. And he loved being a marine.
COOPER: Was that something he wanted to be?
WELLS: For as long as I can remember he wanted to be a marine.
COOPER: And, I mean, I heard you were actually watching television news coverage of the situation in Chattanooga. Were you immediately worried that Skip might be involved?
WELLS: You know, I have to say no. I was not worried. I just thought, no this is -- he is fine. He is going to text me when he is done. He texted me told me what was happening. And I figured he would be, he would call me when it was over and it was secure. And because I know that they do have protocol. That they have to follow. And I figured when he was done he would call.
COOPER: And when, when was it that a team actually showed up to your house?
WELLS: Probably about 5:00. I had a friend over that asked that, if they could come and sit with me. And I -- first I was like no, I am fine. I am fine. I am just waiting. And he -- she said no can I come over now. And she sat in one chair and looked out the door and saw the car and told me not to get up. Then she said, she told, when they came up to the door. I heard her say, you have got the wrong house. No, you have got the wrong house. And that's when I got up. And I was so thankful she was there because she held me up. It's not something you want to see.
COOPER: Yes. I know there is a memorial set up for Skip at his former high school in Georgia. And you visited that memorial - I mean, I can't imagine what that was like?
WELLS: That was so tough. That was tough. His ROTC friends at the school set it up. And they came by the house when they were done. And they loved him. I mean, Skip, Skip was friend with everybody. It didn't matter if you were, if you were the lone sheep in the group, Skip was going to be your friend. He was going to take you under his wing. And he was going to protect you. He was going to make sure that everybody got out before him. That's, that's always how he has been.
[20:25:14] COOPER: You know, when you and I spoke earlier on the phone, you've told me a story if you don't mind repeating it. You used to go to Disneyland a lot -- Disney world.
WELLS: Yes. When he first turned three, we -- I started taking him to Disney world. COOPER: Three years old, wow?
WELLS: He was three.
COOPER: And that became a tradition.
WELLS: Every year until he graduated high school we want to Disney world every summer. And this past year, this past, just last week, he took me.
COOPER: He took you?
WELLS: He took me and he picked the hotel. He bought the tickets. He did everything. And it was - as a matter of fact, the first day he got there, he was honored as the service member of the day at Magic Kingdom where he got to do the flag retreat. He was over the top thrilled.
COOPER: And that was just last week?
WELLS: It was just last week. And he was just, he kept saying, this is the best trip ever. This is the best one ever. It is all he kept saying.
COOPER: Well, to have that memory is --.
WELLS: Yes. He was such a good boy. He loved everybody.
COOPER: Cathy, I mean, I wish there were some word I could say. But I just want to say thank you for, for, being so strong and raising such a good son. And thank you for talking with us tonight.
WELLS: Thank you so much.
COOPER: Incredible loss for her and for the country for us all. \
As we said we learned more today about the man who took Skip Wells' life and the lives of four service member even as we watched a wounded community struggle to heal.
More on both now from Gary Tuchman.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the site of the first Chattanooga shooting, a growing memorial. Hundreds of American flags planted in the lawn under the boiling sun. Emotions plain to see. Sorrow and prayer at interfaith services.
REV. KEN SAUER, WEST RIDGE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH: We mourn, we mourn terribly for these victims. We mourn for our community. We don't understand. We mourn for America. We mourn for those who hate. For those who are brainwashed. TUCHMAN: Brainwashed a referenced to the gunman but by whom.
Authorities continue to say this is being investigated as an act of domestic terrorism until the evidence proves otherwise. The FBI does say there is nothing as of yet connecting the attacker to ISIS or other international terrorism groups.
A family spokesman who asked us not to use his name tells us the family says their son suffered from severe depression for a long time, had suicidal thoughts, and a serious substance abuse problem -- alcohol, marijuana, opiates and other recreational drugs.
The parents say their son moved into this house with the family when he was in grade school. He still came back here many weekends. But rented a room 140 miles away for a factory job he had near Nashville. His parents say he lost a previous job at a nuclear power plant in Ohio because he failed a drug test.
In his younger years, Abdulazeez participated in high school video production, monotheism, Islam, Christianity, Judiasm. He was listed as one of the producers, and as seen and heard talking about the Koran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are five major pillars of Islam. They're the confession of faith, prayer, alms giving, fasting and pilgrimage to Mecca.
TUCHMAN: He graduated from college but couldn't hold jobs because of his personal problems.
His parents say they knew their son owned guns, and wanted him to give them up. But he refused saying he was an adult. They also wanted him to seek substance abuse treatment. He refused that request also.
The family did come out with an official statement over the weekend. In part declaring -- it grieves us beyond belief to know that his pain found its expression in this heinous act of violence.
Authorities in the U.S. and overseas are investigating the gunman's past travels to the Middle East. The woman who lives next door to the family and has known Abdulazeez since he was a child remembers one the trips.
KAREN JONES, NEIGHBOR OF GUNMAN'S FAMILY: The whole family went to Kuwait and Jordan maybe three years ago for three, four weeks.
TUCHMAN: How do you know that?
JONES: Because they told us when they were leaving.
TUCHMAN: The gunman's parents say the son did go to Jordan again last year. But they say they sent him there for what they hoped would be a positive reason, to stay with Jordanian family and get away from his life of depression and drug use in Tennessee.
COOPER: Gary Tuchman joins us.
Now, did the gunman's parents acknowledged the possibility their son committed these murders in the name of Islamic extremism? I mean, they say a depression, but, you know, depression doesn't lead most people of kill other people?
[20:30:11] TUCHMAN: Right, Anderson. According to the family representative, the parents did say that in their son's weaker moments, he did get into quote, "evil ideology and extremist ideas." But they also said, they're convinced he never talked to any extremists, never talked to any outsiders about becoming a domestic terrorist.
COOPER: Gary, appreciate it. Obviously a lot to learn. Just ahead, remember the escape and a massive manhunt of two inmates in upstate New York. Tonight we have new, and really frankly fascinating information about exactly how these two convicted murderers, these killers, managed to escape, how long it took to plan and tunnel out, and the pitfalls along the way. All new information that came out today.
COOPER: Breaking news tonight. The New York Times reporting that the planning that went into last month's prison escape in upstate New York was far more elaborate than anyone imagined, unfolding over months right under the eyes of prison guards who were asleep on the job. And we're not speaking figuratively. They actually were asleep.
According to the Times, convicted murderer David Sweat is spilling all kinds of details to investigators about how he and Richard Matt managed to bust out of the maximum security Clinton correctional facility. Matt as you know, was killed while on the run after he and Sweat parted ways. Mr. Sweat is now being held in solitary confinement at a different maximum security prison. Randi Kaye joins me with the latest.
So we knew they had done practice runs on the escape route the night before they escaped. But now you are learning more about his adventures in those prison tunnels. It seems like they were extensive.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Anderson. It's really fascinating stuff. The New York Times is reporting that David Sweat wandered around those tunnels beneath the prison night after night for months on end, actually, beginning this past winter. The paper says Sweat told investigators that he would leave his cell every night on the hunt for this escape route, confident the guards wouldn't miss him because as you said, they were sleeping. He disappeared between the hours of 11:30. p.m., he'd return by 5:30 in the morning.
The Times reports at one point, when Sweat was cutting through this concrete wall, and the steam pipes were blowing this unbearable heat on him, he somehow rigged a fan underground there to cool himself reportedly using electricity, Anderson, from the tunnel's lights.
COOPER: There's also some new information about when David Sweat actually got serious about escaping?
KAYE: Yes, according to the Times he long planned to escape. As we know, but he got really serious about it when he was moved right next to Richard Matt's cell in that honor block of the prison, that's a cell block designed for prisoners with that good disciplinary record. Sweat apparently told investigators that's when he used a hacksaw blade at night to cut a hole in his cell and then a hole in Richard Matt's cell. And it turns out when another inmate told Richard Matt he heard a noise coming from his cell, the paper says that Matt explained it away, telling the inmate he was stretching canvas on a frame for one of his paintings. As you know, he would make those paintings in prison.
COOPER: What's this about Sweat and Matt really joking about their escape?
KAYE: It's hard to imagine I think of these two violent killers sharing a joke, but the New York Times says that Sweat told investigators that both he and Matt compared their escape to Tim Robbins character, Andy Dufresne, in the movie "The Shawshank Redemption," joking that it had taken Andy Dufresne 20 years to escape, but had only taken them 10 years. So it sounds like they gave themselves quite a bit of credit. Meanwhile, Richard Matt, now dead, shot by a federal agent, and David Sweat back behind bars, authorities hoping it is forever this time.
COOPER: There's also new information we understand tonight about the officer who shot David Sweat?
KAYE: Yes, David Sweat and Richard Matt had split up. We had previously learned that, about five days before Sweat was captured. Now we're learning from the New York Times, citing people briefed on the investigation, that the state police sergeant who shot David Sweat was actually a trained firearms instructor. So this guy was a really good shot. He reportedly dropped to one knee and fired, striking Sweat twice as we know in the torso, from more than 50 yards away. Now firing at a target 50 yards away with a pistol is an incredibly difficult shot. The sergeant was using a 45 caliber pistol to hit Sweat after as you know, he refused to stop running. Sweat was just a couple of miles from the Canadian border. So, Anderson, that sergeant had a very keen eye, recognizing him and then taking him down.
COOPER: That's great that he was there. Randi, thanks very much for that fascinating stuff. Just ahead, a new bombshell for Bill Cosby. The entire deposition he gave in 2005 related to the civil lawsuit, it has now been released. Now all of it previously just a memorandum about it was. And what it contains is disturbing. Disturbing admissions about relationships he had with multiple women, and how he viewed them and what he did.
[20:41:00] COOPER: More disturbing allegations, I should say admissions from Bill Cosby have come out in the open thanks to a 2005 court deposition. At the time, Cosby was answering questions related to a civil lawsuit filed by one of the more than two dozen women who have said he drugged and sexually assaulted them. The full deposition, just released, contains a number of very troubling statements. Cosby admits to relationships with at least five women. Talks about giving women drugs. And about looking for nonverbal signals that women welcomed his sexual advances. Jean Casarez has more.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill Cosby describes in graphic detail extensive sexual relationships with women outside of his marriage. "I thought I heard her moan. I'm not sure. I was happy feeling that she had an orgasm. I took my hand out. I don't remember if there was buttoning, or zipping, or whatever. We stood up." The explosive testimony from a 2005 during a civil suit brought by former Temple University employee Andrea Constand, who claims she was drugged and sexually assaulted. Cosby claims it was consensual. "I don't hear her say anything. And I don't feel her say anything. And so I continue. I go into the area that is somewhere between permission and rejection. I am not stopped." Reaction from those women who say they were his victims -- outrage.
BARBARA BOWMAN, ALLEGED VICTIM: It makes me sick. And it sends a very wrong message about what consent really means. Consent is not the absence of a no.
CASAREZ: Cosby says he had sexual fun with women and steered away from intercourse to prevent women from falling in love with him. "The act of the penile entrance is something that I feel a woman will succumb to more of a romance and more of a feeling, not love, but it's deeper than a playful situation." As for drugging women, Cosby admits he had seven prescriptions for quaaludes during the '70s for a bad back. His intent was to give them to women he socialized with. "Quaaludes happened to be the drug that kids, young people were using to party with, and there were times when I wanted to have them just in case."
Although he denies any criminal sexual behavior, he says this when asked about Constand. "She believes she was not in the position to consent to intercourse after you gave her the drug. Do you believe that is correct? Cosby says I don't know."
We are also learning details of Cosby's methods, asking one of his accusers, Beth Ferrier, about her father, who died of cancer, in order to get closer with her. "Did you ask those questions because you wanted to have sexual contact with her? Yes." Through it all, Cosby's wife has stood by his side, and the deposition may explain why. As Cosby admits to sending secret moneys to some of his accusers to keep decades of infidelity hidden. "And the reason you were doing? Who were you preventing from knowing that? Mrs. Cosby."
COOPER: Jeanne Casarez joins us now. Has Cosby made any comments since this full deposition was made public?
CASAREZ: No. Not at all. His public relations manager said no comment. But he really can't comment, because he is part of a confidential settlement agreement on the suit, foreclosing him from ever talking about it. That was made in 2005 because it didn't go to trial. But ironically, before court now, there is a motion to lift the veil from that confidentiality agreement. Because it is the contention of Andrea Constand's attorney, Delores Traviani (ph), that Cosby and his attorneys since last fall when all these women have come out have made so many comments about the other women that now the veil should be lifted in Andrea Constand's case.
COOPER: Jeanne, appreciate the reporting. Thank you. Joining me now, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin, criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos. Sunny, you're reading this deposition as a former prosecutor, who prosecuted sex crimes, is this familiar territory?
SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It really was. It was remarkable. It is a very long deposition, 1,000 pages. I spent most of the day reading it. What was fascinating to me, it really reminded me of those days when I cross-examined defendants and they said, she wanted it. She consented to it. And I had in my folder pictures of a woman who had been brutalized, with two black eyes.
And so the sort of thing he is saying are the things that I heard from sexual predators and from sociopaths. It was really shocking to me, quite frankly.
COOPER: It's interesting. I'm not sure everyone realizes this, but when he was talking about quaaludes, getting quaaludes to give to women. It wasn't that he was partying with these women taking these quaaludes himself as well. This was a drug to give to a woman, and he, fully rational, fully conscious, would then have sex with her.
HOSTIN: That's right. He made it very clear that he did not take them, because it made him feel woozy and queasy and drowsy. And, so I think what is really remarkable is that he says in the deposition, Anderson, that he is sort of good at -- at determining a woman's nonverbal responses. But indeed, these women were drugged. You cannot consent.
COOPER: There was a reason they were nonverbal.
COOPER: Mark, this deposition, it paints a very negative public image for Cosby. You also believe though, it is really bad for him legally? In what way?
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think you have an open LAPD, Los Angeles Police Department, investigation. There is the issue of the statute of limitations on some of these other cases. But the one that they're investigating is arguably within the statute of limitations. They can use this stuff. Even though this is sealed, they now have access to it. It would not surprise me to see the LAPD go get a search warrant to actually seize this deposition so that they can use it in their investigation, as what's called other -- other crimes or motive type evidence. And to try to bring that in to show that this is a common scheme or plan. This is, you know, an enormous amount of headache trouble and legal jeopardy for Mr. Cosby at this point.
COOPER: It is also interesting, Mark, because his representation is not commenting. But they did in the past. And now there are lawsuits because of the comments they made. It seems like they're now in a position where they really can't say anything, because their comments in the past are now being used against them in -- in the suits. Defamation suits.
GERAGOS: Exactly right. That was one of the problems. You and I talked about months ago how these defamation suits were kind of creative wedges to get them out there to say stuff and things of that nature. And I said at the time, he really couldn't say anything, shouldn't say anything. This is one of the reasons.
I still don't understand -- I'll look into it, maybe Sunny can give some explanation -- as to why if he was paying money to settle this case in Philadelphia, with this woman, why he didn't have that deposition destroyed or ordered permanently sealed. Because apparently it was only temporarily sealed. Because this offers, I mean, a tremendous amount of jeopardy.
COOPER: Is that something you can do?
HOSTIN: That is certainly something you can do. And I can't imagine what he is saying to the attorneys who were representing him. Because he slipped up. Whoever slipped up. That is something you certainly want. You want the case sealed, but you want that deposition to never go anywhere. It is a bombshell, in my view, Anderson, it's a game changer. Even if none of these women get to confront him in a criminal courtroom, in a criminal trial, my experience with most victims is they want to be believed, they want vindication. And my goodness, people believe them now. Everyone believes them now. And they have that at least in the court of public opinion. And that's what victims want.
COOPER: Sunny, appreciate you being with us. Mark Geragos, as well. Guys, thank you very much. Just ahead, an incredibly close call with a great white shark, captured on live television. Maybe you have seen the video. It is worth watching again if you have. One of the world's top surfers got away. Punches were involved, punching the shark. It's just incredible. Got away just barely with his life. Imagine what this could have turned into. We'll be right back with more.
COOPER: To say that Mick Fanning, one of the world's top surfers, is lucky to be alive tonight, would not begin to explain it. He was nearly killed yesterday or could have been off the coast of South Africa when a great white shark attacked him during a live broadcast of the surfing competition. There you see the fin. Millions of viewers saw the danger before he actually did. The shark's dorsal fin rose out of the water, right behind him. A horrifying moment for everyone watching, including Fanning's mom in Australia who was watching. What happened next is astounding. To our knowledge, nothing like it has really been captured on live television. David McKenzie has details.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The terrifying moments of a great white shark attack unfolding on live TV. In nightmarish slow motion, Mick Fanning, one of surfing's greats, stalked by an awesome predator on the Eastern Cape. And he is still deeply shaken.
MICK FANNING, SURFER: All of a sudden I sort of sensed something behind me. And then all of a sudden I just jumped on my board. And you know, I just -- I was like, something is going on. And then I felt myself getting dragged under by my leash. And then next thing I know, I saw its fin. And then the next thing it came back around and went again at my board. And yes, I was like, all right. (inaudible).
MCKENZIE: On the other side of the world, pride turned into horror as Mick's mom watched the attack live from Australia.
FANNING: I just couldn't believe what I was seeing, really. I saw this sort of fin. A big fin. And then Mick sort of scrambling. And sort of turning around. And then -- he went down. And I realized then it must have been a shark attack. I was absolutely terrified. I thought we'd lost him.
MCKENZIE: But instead of swimming away, Mick turned to face the sedan-sized shark and swung a few punches.
FANNING: If I'm going to go down, I'm ready to go down with a fight. You sit there and you say all these different things when you're on the beach and you joke around with friends. But I don't know. It's just instinct, like, it's one of those things, like fight or flight, pretty much.
MCKENZIE: Mick Fanning says it was ultimately up to the shark whether he lived or died. For pro surfers, surfing is like a religion. But he says that this attack has put his life into focus.
FANNING: I woke up this morning, I spoke to my family and friends. And you know, cried a little bit. And, you know, you never know. You just think -- whatever gods are out there or whatever. Just say thanks for looking out for me.
MCKENZIE: The attack has rattled the pro surfing community. But this story could have ended so much worse. And Mick says he just wants to get home to Australia to give his mom a hug and decompress. But Mick says he will be riding the waves again soon. David McKenzie, CNN, Jeffreys Bay, South Africa.
COOPER: Just incredible. He deserves a break. Our live coverage continues into the next hour with more breaking news. The fallout from Donald Trump's comments about Senator John McCain. And why new poll numbers that show his biggest lead yet could also contain the seeds of some trouble for Donald Trump. I'll check those out. Plus, the hack that has put fear into the hearts of tens of millions of cheaters or would-be cheater who gave up some very personal information to a website that caters to married people who want to have affairs.
COOPER: Good evening. It's 9:00 p.m. here in New York, and possibly a moment when public opinion is shifting on Donald Trump. There is new polling showing him with nearly double the support of his closest