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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Trump Takes On Border, Agents Back Out Of Event; Donald Trump Threatens Third Party Run; Prosecutor: Autopsy Shows Sandra Bland Died of Suicide. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired July 23, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:08] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, Donald Trump taking on the southern border. But his trip hit a snag before it even began. And all the buzz seems to be about the hat he is wearing. So, did the trick backfire?
Plus, a major development in the case of Sandra Bland. Officials say an autopsy proves her death was a suicide by hanging. But the family has its own autopsy in the works. What will that show?
And a fight erupting in a small Texas town over a Muslim cemetery. Why residents are protesting this final resting place? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, Trump takes on the border. Donald Trump flew into the border town of Laredo, Texas, today, a high profiled trip intended to put the spotlight back on his signature issue, illegal immigration. Trump sporting a wide make America great again baseball cap and yes, it has taken on whole life of its own online, he repeatedly told reporters that he was making the trip to Laredo despite what he described as a major security threat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, they say it's a great danger, but I have to do it. I love the country. There's nothing more important than what I'm doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Border patrol agents were supposed to lead Trump's tour, but then backed out at the last minute. The Trump campaign slammed their, quote, "superiors in Washington for silencing them."
Dana Bash is OUTFRONT tonight in Laredo, Texas traveling with the Trump campaign. Dana, it seemed like a crazy day. What happened?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is an understatement. And to boot its battle, 111 degrees here right now. But look, whether or not Donald Trump actually learned something new by coming here to the border, that's to be determined. But you ask whether or not it backfired. Probably not. Because the main goal was to put focus right where some of his most ardent supporters want him to do that, and that is on the issue of immigration. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): Donald Trump landing for the cameras on the plane that bears his name. Using an unusually long motorcade to blaze a campaign trail to the U.S. border with Mexico. Mob the cameras to capture a series of photo ops. That is Donald Trump behind there. Engineer to return the spotlight to the issue that helped make him a surprise force in the republican primary, order security.
TRUMP: I'm the one that brought up the problem of illegal immigration. And it's a big problem. It's a huge problem.
BASH: But how much Trump actually learned is unclear. Even before Trump arrived, his tour hit a snag. The local border patrol union that invited him uninvited him this morning for fear of it looking like an endorsement.
TRUMP: They invited me and then all of a sudden, they were told silencio, they want silence. The border patrol, they are petrified of saying what's happening because they have a real problem here.
BASH: Instead, Trump went to the border for a brief meeting with local Laredo, Texas officials, the mayor and the city manager Jesus Olivares.
TRUMP: This man -- I'm going to steal him to run something for me. He is fantastic.
BASH: But if Trump talked to Jesus about building a wall, he claims he will get Mexico to pay for, he didn't get positive feedback.
(on camera): Do you agree with Mr. Trump that the way to make the border safe is to build this wall?
JESUS OLIVARES, LAREDO TEXAS MANAGER: Well, that's a federal issue. And we have our comments on that. We don't think that's necessary at this time. I think there's other ways that we can work together with the federal government.
TRUMP: No, no, not at all.
BASH (voice-over): Still Trump left doubts about whether he stands by his own promise to build a wall along the 2,000 mile border.
TRUMP: I will build a great, great wall on our southern border and I will have Mexico pay for that wall.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you in favor of a wall?
TRUMP: Yes. In certain sections, you have to have a wall. Absolutely.
BASH: And he is still not backing his claim that Mexican officials sent undocumented immigrants across the border. TRUMP: We will be showing you the evidence.
BASH: Now, although Kate, Donald Trump was not able to get a tour from the local border patrol union as he had planned probably when he got on his plane to come down here this morning, he did have a meeting in the building behind me with other law enforcement officials, including some border patrol agents who still went to hear his speech despite clearly having some second -- misgivings I should say from his bosses here. Back to you.
BOLDUAN: Disagreements with those, some of the folks who were standing right there with him. Very interesting.
BOLDUAN: Very interesting, Dana. Dana Bash OUTFRONT for us tonight. Dana, thank you so much.
Also OUTFRONT tonight, former republican Congressman Tom Tancredo and Congressman Henry Cuellar, a democrat who represents Laredo. As well as Joe E. Baeza who was with the Laredo Police Department, he met with Donald Trump there today.
[19:05:14] So, Tom, let me start with you. Because you heard in Dana's piece, I mean, you had folks standing up with him who were disagreeing with Donald Trump on his big signature issue of putting up this border wall. Folks are calling this more of a pr stunt than anything. They're talking more about his hat than they are than anything else. So, did this backfire?
TOM TANCREDO (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't know because I don't know exactly what the purpose was. If it's to simply draw attention to the issues on the border, then I suppose it worked. If it was actually to find out something about what goes on on that border, it certainly didn't. I guarantee you, I mean, I have been to the border many times, both northern and southern border, and I assure you that if you go to the border and you are given the tour by the folks on the ground there, the border patrol agents, you're going to get a dog and pony show.
You are not going to see the real border. You have to -- if you want to see that, you go down there and talk to the rangers who live there. You see what happens on their land. You see what happens to their -- to the water tanks that are vandalize. You see what happens to the trash that piles up in huge, huge masses in places called layup sites. You'll see the wrecked trees where, in fact, people -- women coming across that border are raped by the coyotes and then their undergarments are hung on the trees.
BOLDUAN: Wait. So, Tom, do you think this was -- do you think this was a pr stunt too?
TANCREDO: Those things you will see. Hey, listen, when you are running for president of the United States, everything you do is a pr stunt. You hardly ever do anything that is in fact just, you know, fact finding.
BOLDUAN: Excellent point.
TANCREDO: That's been my experience, I believe.
BOLDUAN: Congressman, a question to you. Trump called the border in Laredo a danger. He said this not once. He said this multiple times. If we have that sound bite, listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm going to the border tomorrow. I may never see you again. But these are minor details.
We're going to the border. And we will see you later hopefully. We'll see you later. They say it's a great danger but I have to do it. People are saying, oh, it's so dangerous what you are doing Mr. Trump. It's so dangerous what you are doing. I have to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: So dangerous, I have to do it, it's a great danger. It's a great danger. Congressman, this your hometown. I mean, what do you say to that?
REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D), TEXAS: Well, I think he's known to make some very amusing statements like he just did. I live there. I drink the water. I breathe the air. My family lives there. If you look at the FBI statistics for the border, the border has a lower crime rate than the national crime rate. And this is using FBI statistics. If you look at the crime rate of Laredo, the murder, we had three murders for a hundred thousand, less than three murders, for a hundred thousand. (INAUDIBLE) had 16 murders for a hundred thousand. And if you include New York City, it's a lot more dangerous than Washington, D.C. or New York City. It's a lot safer there. I always find it interesting that people that live the furthest away from the border are the ones that just don't understand the border at all.
BOLDUAN: I mean, this is the kind of the debate being had at this very moment. And someone who is in the middle of it at least today is Joe E. Baeza. Joe, let me bring you in on this. You met with the -- you've met with Donald Trump today, along with other city officials. They were standing right there with him on the tour. Congressman Joaquin Castro, he called everyone out today on Twitter who was with Trump saying that Trump used you all and that it's embarrassing for South Texas and Hispanics. That's a pretty serious statement. What do you say to that?
JOE E. BAEZA, LAREDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, the truth of the matter is that this entire visit really wasn't even the city's idea. We basically were going to be in a supporting role. We were going to basically provide adequate security for crowd control and police presence and assure that everybody was orderly and peaceful. Due to the circumstances that were presented to us this morning and the fact that that the union had the rugged pulled out from underneath them, really what happened was that we rose to the occasion. We said, why would we waste the opportunity to speak to a presidential candidate and to give them our views on the things that matters to us as a border community and that was exactly what happened today.
He was given a very brief tour in regards to -- and a presentation by city leaders in relationship to Laredo's -- their world role in being the largest inland port in the United States. The mass amounts of commercial motor vehicle traffic that comes through the border, our role in having a stake in all of that and what Mexico means to the business trade in Laredo, Texas. It was a pivotal. And Mr. Trump was completely engaged into this conversation and I think the conversation went well.
BOLDUAN: Well, it's interesting you say conversation. Because at least in part of it, it doesn't seem like it was much of a conversation. Because Trump sure seems to not have changed his position on the fact that he wants this big position is that he wants to build a massive border wall there. Do you think in what you showed him in the conversations you had that you changed his opinion at all?
[19:10:30] BAEZA: I think we gave him food for thought. I think it would be ridiculous for us to assume that he was going to leave a convert in relationship to what we were trying to explain. I think the systemic issues that are always surrounding the border communities and -- it always is in a four-year cycle with relation to presidential elections. We live the issues here on the border community. They don't go away every four years. We deal with them day in, day out. We know the nefarious nature of narco-trafficking, illegal immigration, the ramifications that would mean for us. We basically have been in charge of homeland security for quite some time, even before the term was coined post-9/11. Because Homeland Security starts with home front security for us. Where our community that we love, that we enjoy so much. And it was pivotal that we basically took advantage of this visit, because how often do we have a person like him in order for him to have 15 minutes with us to give him a presentation?
BOLDUAN: There's no doubt about it. There's no doubt about it. The spotlight was back -- is back on your town right now. And you at least had 15 minutes. I mean, I guess that's more than a lot of people get. Thank you so much.
BAEZA: Exactly. And obviously --
BOLDUAN: Go ahead.
BAEZA: Thank you then. I appreciate that.
BOLDUAN: Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Joe, Tom, Congressman, I appreciate your time.
Got to love those delays with live TV.
OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump now threatening to run as a third party candidate. He's got the billions to do it. But what would it do to the GOP? And officials tonight are ruling Sandra Bland's death a suicide.
But listen to her voice just before her death. Does she sound suicidal to you?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD IN A JAIL CELL: How did switching lanes with no signal turn into all of this? I don't even know. Call me back when you can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:16:09] BOLDUAN: Donald Trump issuing a major threat to his party tonight. He is warning Republicans that if the party is unfair to his campaign, he will absolutely consider running as a third party candidate. Empty threat or the GOP's worst nightmare?
Chris Frates is OUTFRONT.
TRUMP: Here is the good news. I'm very rich.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: And that's what makes Donald Trump's latest threat very real. Trump told a hill newspaper Wednesday that if the Republican National Committee doesn't play fair, it increases the chances he will mount a third party run. The RNC asked Trump to cool his heated rhetoric after making comments about undocumented Mexican immigrants.
TRUMP: They are bringing drugs. They are bringing crime. They are rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
FRATES: The republican committee also chided Trump after he suggested that GOP Senator John McCain, a former prisoner of war, was not a war hero. But even Trump has acknowledged that a third party run could be disastrous for Republicans.
TRUMP: The best way of defeating the Democrats and probably Hillary I think it's going to be Hillary, is to run as a republican. If I do the third party thing, it would be I think very bad for the Republicans. I think it would be very bad in terms of beating the Democrats.
FRATES: It's a point backed up by recent polling. In a head to head match-up, democrat Hillary Clinton beats republican Jeb Bush by six percentage points. Add Trump to the race and Clinton wins by 16 points. Republicans fear a repeat of the three-way election of 1992 where some blamed Ross Perot for costing President George H.W. Bush the White House. Perot spent $65 million of his own money. Trump is financing his run the same way.
TRUMP: I'm using my own money. I'm not using the lobbyists, I'm not using donors. I don't care. I'm really rich. I posted over $10 billion. FRATES: Trump's disclosure forms show he is worth at least $1.4
billion and has at least $265 million in debt. The form's broad ranges, the top ranges anything worth more than $50 million, make it impossible to verify Trump's claim that he is worth $10 billion. Trump's campaign mocked the form saying, quote, "This report was not designed for a man of Mr. Trump's massive wealth." Some of his most valuable assets are in real estate, resorts, golf courses, residential and commercial properties. But he also makes money on everything from royalties and rents to speaking fees and licensing deals.
FRATES: And the last thing some Republicans want is Trump throwing that cash behind an independent third party run. But Trump seems to walk back those comments today telling reporters that he wants to run as a republican. And Kate, with that characteristic Trump bravado, he predicted he would win that nomination.
BOLDUAN: Of course, he made that prediction, Chris. Thanks so much, Chris.
FRATES: You're welcome.
BOLDUAN: Joining me now to discuss, former head of communications for the Republican National Committee, Doug Heye and CNN political commentator and former special adviser to President Obama, Van Jones.
Gentlemen, let's begin. So, Doug, how serious should the RNC and republican candidates take this threat from Trump?
DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I think it's the latest news to just keep the Trump thing going. We were talking about a phone number yesterday. We were talking about Lindsey Graham and John McCain before that. Obviously, he will say anything to stay in the headlines. This will certainly stay in the headlines. What I would like to see is more digging down. We saw some vulnerability in Donald Trump today. He was asked, what would you about the illegal immigrants, the millions of illegal immigrants who are already in this country? And we know that he doesn't have the policy chops on anything. And he said, I don't know. He punted on the answer. I think if Republicans and really journalists dig down on policy issues, the emperor will show that he doesn't any have any close and he doesn't have any answers.
BOLDUAN: I guess. And in your view that it doesn't even matter if he runs as a third party candidate. But Van, oh Van, third party candidates they have also played the spoiler role for Democrats obviously, we've laid that out. Ralph Nader in 2000 just to drop a name. What would you do if this were your party? What do you do about this threat? What do you do about this -- let's play the game, if he becomes a third party candidate?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, what's very interesting is that you have a lot of discontent in the country. But the Democrats, the party is healthy enough to absorb that. So, you know, our renegade is Bernie Sanders. He was an independent. He had to come inside the party to be relevant. The Republican Party right now is in such disarray, they have so many candidates, they have so many problems that somebody could go outside. This party does not seem to be able to contain and manage its own contradiction. So, they have that problem to deal with right now. What I think is very, very interesting is that you do have a moment in which I think the Republicans are underestimating Trump.
I don't think Trump is going away. I don't think he is going to flame out. I don't think asking him a tough policy question is going to shut him up. I don't think he has got any shame. He cannot be shamed. I think he's going to be a very powerful force. I think he's gaining strength. And I think people are whistling past a graveyard, they think this guy is going to go away. He may be the last man standing. He won't get the nomination, but he may be the last man standing next to the guy who is.
[19:21:24] BOLDUAN: That means the nominee is not standing. Okay, that would look -- what does that look like? Okay. So, Doug, the RNC, when you talk about how this threat has come about, the RNC, they told Trump -- they told Trump to tone it down after his controversial immigration comments. They also put out a statement criticizing his comments after he questioned McCain's war hero status. Trump is saying, if you are not fair to me, I may absolutely consider running as a third party candidate. Is the RNC at all at fault here? Would you have recommended taking this guy on in the middle of a primary if you were still there?
HEYE: Well, I think what they did was pretty obvious. Anybody who insults Senator McCain's war record is probably going to be criticized. Obviously, even John Kerry spoke out in favor of Senator McCain and his war record. But the RNC has very specific rules that they are following. You know, when I worked to the Republican National Committee, I had the bylaws of the committee at my desk. And you had to follow them to the T. And one of those -- it's like a prime directive -- is that the Republican National Committee does not get involved in primaries at all.
BOLDUAN: Then, what did they do with that statement?
HEYE: Well, I think standing up for John McCain is a totally different matter.
BOLDUAN: There's no place in our country -- in our party or country for comments that disparage. That's indirectly criticizing Trump.
HEYE: Well, I certainly think whether it's the communications director or Reince Priebus -- they're going to stand up for a senator who's fought for our country, you know, in the way that John McCain did so much. But when it comes down to the debate structures, when it comes to who is allowed on the stage or not, the Republican National Committee can't and shouldn't step in there. And that's why I think they're taking the right course so far.
BOLDUAN: And Van, I mean, you said Trump could be the last man standing. Trump -- I mean, couldn't Trump hurt Hillary as well if he ran as a third party candidate? There are plenty of ways to tie the two together. And you can be sure that the republican nominee, whoever that may be, would take a lot of pride in pointing that out and highlighting that.
JONES: Well, I think that they might try to do that. I don't think it will work as well. First of all, I think that Hillary Clinton is really the opposite of Donald Trump in terms of her style, in terms of her background. I think it really -- having him running around, she then can say, look, you know, I'm the grandmother in chief. I want to be grandmother in chief. This is not the way you want a commander in chief acting. It's so important that the commander in chief have gravitas, have some experience. This guy actually I think makes Hillary Clinton look great. Frankly she makes -- he is going to make a lot of people look good who are not Republicans. He is making the Republican Party look terrible. And I think if he runs as a third party candidate or frankly, if he is won the last two or three people standing in the republican primary, he hurts that party in ways that's very hard to describe. But he is not going away. I think republican leadership needs to accept the fact this guy is here to stay.
BOLDUAN: And Doug, I kind of get the sense, the more Van says it, that the more he hopes he doesn't go away. I'm getting that a little bit of sense here.
HEYE: And I don't blame him. I don't blame him one bit.
BOLDUAN: Guys, great to see you. Thanks so much.
JONES: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, a major development in the case of Sandra Bland. Officials saying an autopsy shows her death was a suicide. The inmate next to her cell speaks OUTFRONT about what she heard.
And Bill Cosby's new strategy, publically fighting the accusations. His news attorney says, despite the sex and drugs, Cosby never committed a crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a person to offer a substance in a consensual relationship to a person with knowledge and for them to choose to accept it is not criminal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:29:08] BOLDUAN: Tonight, new details into the mysterious death of a young woman at a Texas jail. A preliminary autopsy report found Sandra Bland committed suicide by hanging herself. Her death just three days after she was arrested during a routine traffic stop. You are seeing video of it right there. But that ruling is being disputed by her friends and family. And tonight, the prosecutor tells me the case is not closed. In a moment, you will going to hear my full interview with him.
But first, let's get to Ryan Young. He's OUTFRONT in Hempstead, Texas. So, Ryan, what more are we learning from this autopsy?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, really some tough details. And I want to explain this to everyone at home. They brought us into a room and they decided to show us some of the evidence in this case. And honestly, to see some of the autopsy photos were tough. You could see the crowd reacting to it. In fact, they asked us to put our cameras down through some of it to make sure it wasn't broadcasting live because they wanted to make sure people at home weren't seeing some of these photos.
Let's first start with the hands. They went over the hands and the fact they didn't see any defensive markings on her hands or find anything under her fingernails that seem -- that would be consistent with a struggle. And then they showed us the bag, the bag that was twisted, they believe the trash bag she twisted and decided to try to hang herself inside the cell. They showed us the bag.
And then she showed her neck, and the marks around her neck. That's a picture that we would not want to share. But you could see the marks, and they were saying, you couldn't see any signs of struggle. It looked like it just was a singular motion around the neck.
And then they went through parts of what they said they will release tomorrow, which are toxicology. There were high amounts of marijuana in her system.
And so, you could see some of the markings and you could hear from them that there were 30 cut marks along her arm. Some were healed. Some looked like they were consistent with cutting.
Moving to the back, they also talked about it seemed like she had bruises on her back. It looked like she had a leaf in her back as well. That could have been from the struggle with the officer.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, the big headline there is that they say the autopsy essentially determines in their view that it is death by suicide by hanging. But, also, Ryan, important tonight, you just spoke to a fellow inmate who was across the hall from Bland. What is she telling you?
YOUNG: Well, obviously, this has been tough for several people. Once we saw those pictures. In fact, we talked to the person who was just across the hallway. This young lady says she was serving a sentence here of 17 days for not paying tickets. We talked to her early in the afternoon. She didn't want her face on TV. And now, we convinced her in the last hour or so to talk to us one on one.
And she talked about her experience and looking across the hallway and seeing Sandra Bland. She said, when she first arrived, she was very upset. She was angry about the charge. And she was upset she was across the way.
Over time though, she started talking across the hallway with this young lady. She says that she started crying, was very upset, that she was having trouble getting in contact with people. She talked about how the jail staff was talking to her and trying to make sure that she was OK.
But in the end, that day where she was supposedly committed suicide, she said she didn't hear any noise as she was sleeping until the investigation started. So, obviously, a lot of new developments. It's something that we just shot that we will turn around soon.
BOLDUAN: Thank you, Ryan. A lot of new developments. Again, so many questions that surround this woman's death. Thanks so much.
And OUTFRONT is Waller County prosecutor Warren DiePraam
Mr. DiePraam, thank you very much for taking the time. A lot of focus on your county right now.
So, you have now determined it was suicide. As far as your office is concerned, is the case now closed?
WARREN DIEPRAAM, WALLER COUNTY ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: No, absolutely not. The case is not closed. That is the determination of the Harris County Institute of Forensic Science, based upon the autopsy. I'm a forensic science specialist. I have reviewed their autopsy findings, spoken with them and gone over the evidence.
I feel comfortable that their findings are correct. But there's a lot of information out there. So, we're not forming any conclusions at this point.
BOLDUAN: So, the family, obviously, still has a lot of questions. Could anything in their independent autopsy prompt you to take a second look, prompt you to think that the determination that's been put out there right now could be incorrect?
DIEPRAAM: We're certainly open to anything. The first look isn't closed yet. As I said, we're looking into all sorts of variable factors and all sorts of evidence. But what we have got from the Harris County Institute of Forensic Science and what I reviewed appears accurate and it was done properly.
BOLDUAN: So, at some point, you think it could be determined it was not suicide? It could turn out to be a homicide despite this finding?
DIEPRAAM: Well, that's extremely unlikely at this particular point in time. But we don't know that. The findings from the autopsy report, very strong, very overwhelming evidence. But like I said today in the press conference, nothing is certain.
BOLDUAN: So, one aspect of this getting a lot of attention is the intake forms as she was taken into the jail. The intake forms show that Sandra told jail officials that she previously had attempted suicide and that she was depressed. But no extra precautions were taken.
And I want to get your perspective on this. Could the jail have done anything different, done anything in your view to prevent her death?
DIEPRAAM: Well, you are missing some other evidence that was available to the jail that has just recently been made public. They had a second interview with her where she denied any suicidal thoughts. She denied being suicidal.
They also interacted with her. She appeared to be in good mental state. But I do know that the decision on those forms was supplemented by a lot of other information later on that may have affected the sheriff's office decision.
[19:35:04] There is new evidence that surfaced today that indicated that she was upset because her friends couldn't or wouldn't bond her out of jail.
BOLDUAN: Mr. DiePraam, thank you very much for your time.
DIEPRAAM: Sure, thank you.
BOLDUAN: And now, I want to bring in one of Sandra Bland's friends, LaVaughn Mosley. He was one of the last people to hear from Bland. He also spoke to her shortly after she was arrested.
Mr. Mosley, thank you so much for your time. I know when you are listening to this, we have to say, again, we're so sorry for your loss. We absolutely understand how difficult a time this is for you.
I want to ask you about what we just heard from that county prosecutor. He says that they have learned that Sandra was, in his words, extremely upset because friends couldn't or wouldn't bond her out of jail. Did you know that? Did she tell you that?
LAVAUGHN MOSLEY, FRIEND OF SANDRA BLAND: No, she did not. First of all, thank you for having us on this evening. Thank you for keeping the story alive.
I talked to Miss Bland on Friday shortly after she had been arrested. And so, no bond had been set. So, to say she was upset because nobody would pay the bond is ludicrous. It just speaks further to the corruption here in Waller County. And that's why we want outside independent investigations, because they are slanting it like it was suicide. And we all -- all of us that know Sandra know she would not have committed suicide.
BOLDUAN: So, despite the determination coming from the medical examiner, coming from the autopsy today, you don't believe it?
MOSLEY: I don't believe it. First of all, I saw Sandy on Thursday. She wore a sleeveless dress to her interview. And if she would have had 30 marks and cuts on her arm, I would have noticed it -- and I didn't notice that.
BOLDUAN: So, Sandra left you --
MOSLEY: The other thing is when --
BOLDUAN: Go ahead.
MOSLEY: The time that they processed, they didn't notice the scars. I notice -- I know when you are incarcerated, they always ask a question, do you have any scars or tattoos? At that particular time, when she got processed, fingerprinted, and got her mugshot taken, nobody noticed or the scars never came up at that time. It's odd now, days and weeks later, a week and some days later, that now she had 30 cuts on her arm.
BOLDUAN: Mr. Mosley, you were one the last people who spoke with Sandra. She left you a voicemail from jail. I want to play for our viewers a part of that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SANDRA BLAND VOICEMAIL: I'm still just at a loss for words honestly about this whole process. How did switching lanes with no signal turn into all of this, I don't even know. But I'm still here, so I guess call me back when you can.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: When you heard this message, did you think anything sounded off with her? Obviously, her state of mind is something that a lot of -- there are a lot of questions around now.
MOSLEY: Yes. I wasn't put off by the call. She called and I missed the call and she left a message that they set the bond and it was $5,000. She said, call when I get a chance. I called her back -- I called her back around 2:30. The jail informed me of the same information on Saturday.
BOLDUAN: LaVaughn Mosley, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.
MOSLEY: Thank you. Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, Bill Cosby. He is changing his strategy. A brand new attorney tonight is taking the fight to the media.
And there's a battle erupting in a small Texas town over a proposed cemetery for Muslims. Wait until you hear what some residents there are saying.
[19:42:47] BOLDUAN: Bill Cosby trying out a new strategy, fighting back in the public arena, just as he is facing another legal setback. The Supreme Court in California has ruled against the comedian, allowing a civil lawsuit to proceed that accuses Cosby of sexual assault. Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
MONIQUE PRESSLEY, ATTORNEY FOR BILL COSBY: I'm here as counsel for Mr. Cosby.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And fighting back, a visible pivot for Bill Cosby's legal team, mounting a vigorous public defense across network television and newspapers.
PRESSLEY: If one is getting away with lodging accusations with no proof, then perhaps two can, then perhaps 10 can, but that does not make it so.
LAH: Cosby's defense team also lashing out in this legal filing, blasting the media's one sided reporting, writing media immediately pounced on Cosby's recently released deposition from 2005. The media painting him as a rapist when he only admitted to introducing Quaaludes into their consensual sex life -- a drug dubbed "disco biscuits" in the 1970s, says Cosby's lawyers, one that was popular and recreational.
Cosby's lawyers seeking to turn the tide against a tsunami of public accusations.
BETH FERRIER, COSBY ACCUSER: We will pursue Mr. Cosby until the full truth comes out.
LAH: Women like Beth Ferrier, one of more than two dozen women from across the country sharing their stories that span decades, accusing Cosby of drugging and raping them.
President Obama even weighing in on the use of drugs on women.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Have sex with that person without consent, that's rape.
LAH: The once revered comedian now a punch line himself, countless memes on the web like Pill Cosby.
Fellow entertainers taking jabs.
JUDD APATOW, DIRECTOR, "TRAINWRECK": My wife, she said to me, what is this in the paper about the raping and drugging and the women.
LAH: The PR hits have cost Cosby professionally, but he has yet to take a criminal hit as his attorney loudly reminded those who have convicted him in the court of public opinion.
PRESSLEY: Even though we hear from accusers and we see headlines that discuss things like calling him a rapist or saying that he has committed sexual assault, the case actually is in a civil court.
[19:45:11] And there are no criminal charges filed.
LAH: Bill Cosby's legal team certainly has more headaches ahead. An attorney in one of the civil suits he's facing says that she plans on deposing him, hopefully on videotape, within the next 30 days -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Important. Kyung, thank you so much. An important move there.
So, let's bring in now, joining me OUTFRONT, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan. He's a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.
So, Paul, for months, Cosby's strategy, no one has been speaking out -- definitely not doing any television, anyone on part of his team. So, now this change. What is this strategy? Why now?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The prior strategy I think was a huge mistake. And a lot of lawyers, they don't like the press. They want to avoid the press.
But, you know, in a case like this where you are getting pounded, you have to get another message out. And I was watching Miss Pressley earlier today. I think she's doing a marvelous job of really dissecting the case and saying that it doesn't prove that Cosby is guilty.
But it may be too late for this strategy. The reason they did it, Kate, is because for the first time, there was a release of transcripts in which Cosby admitted that he gave Quaaludes to women in the '70s in an attempt to procure sex. And that, of course, fit the narrative of so many other women, I think, what is it, up to 48 or something now?
BOLDUAN: Do you think they really spoke out now real quick because the chorus of voices came out?
CALLAN: Oh, absolutely. These things had to be answered because of things he said under oath. I think now, you're going to see an aggressive alternative strategy by Cosby to change public opinion.
BOLDUAN: We will see. Paul, thank you so much. Great to see you.
OUTFRONT next, a town divided over a Muslim cemetery in Texas. We're going to take you there.
And Jeanne Moos on what to expect if you dare to interrupt Donald Trump.
BOLDUAN: A major controversy erupting in a small Texas town. Residents of Farmersville, located just 45 miles from Dallas, they're outraged over a plan to build a Muslim cemetery there.
Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT in Farmersville. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It might seem like a serene patch of land along a countryside highway, but to many in the small Texas town of Farmersville, something sinister is growing here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We used to grow a lot of onions here. We sure enough don't want to be growing bodies.
LAVANDERA: The bodies he's referring to are the plans by the Islamic Association of Collin County to turn this 34-acre space into a Muslim cemetery, and the news set off a public backlash.
Farmersville is about 25 miles away from Garland, Texas, where in May police killed two Muslim gunmen who tried to carry out a deadly attack at a draw the Prophet Muhammad event.
One resident in Farmersville suggested using pigs to scare away the Muslim group.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can dump pigs blood and pigs heads, they won't buy the land.
LAVANDERA: A hundred people turned out to a city meeting to voice opposition to the plan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a moneymaker for Farmersville. So, regardless if you like Muslims or not, it doesn't conform.
KHALIL ABDUL-RASHID, ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION OF COLLIN COUNTY: We are dealing with hate.
LAVANDERA: Khalil Abdul Rashid is part of the Muslim group organizing the cemetery project. He is shocked by the reaction of many residents. He says the cemetery is funded by five different mosques in the area that needed a cemetery closer to their homes. He says the closest cemetery is more than an hour drive away.
ABDUL-RASHID: The need to provide a resting place for your loved one is a fundamental human need. We didn't think there would be this much backlash over just a cemetery.
DAVID MEEKS, BETHLEHEM BAPTIST CHURCH: I believe I am a watchman on the wall, Ezekiel 33. See the incoming danger.
LAVANDERA: David Meeks is the pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church which ironically sits next to a cemetery. He says the cemetery could bring radical Islam to Farmersville.
MEEKS: I see the expansion of Islam going on all over the world, now it is coming to my hometown.
LAVANDERA (on camera): You see that danger in a cemetery?
MEEKS: Any time you see the Islamic folks coming into the neighborhood, I think -- my opinion -- I think you can say we could be less safe in the future than we are right now.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Abdul-Rashid says the mosques organizing the cemetery have received vile threats and Farmersville city officials are receiving threats from angry residents.
ABDUL-RASHID: I had myself personally entertain the idea maybe we should not do this, maybe we should pull out. But then we -- but then that would not have solved the problem either. That would have given into hate.
LAVANDERA: For now, there is nothing peaceful or serene about this future resting place.
LAVANDERA: As you have openly heard from many residents there in the town of Farmersville, they see this cemetery as the beginning of a Muslim movement into their small town. They say that the cemetery will then bring a mosque and a madrassa. But organizers and officials spearheading the development of the cemetery say nothing could be farther from the truth. They say this space will only hold some 20,000 burial spots, as well as the only developments on the ground will be a male and female restroom, as well as one open air gazebo. That's it -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Wow. Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.
OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos on Donald Trump's verbal weapon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Excuse me.
Right now. Excuse me.
Hey, excuse me. I'm one of those people.
Excuse me. I told you exactly what I would do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: So, Donald Trump's most famous refrain is, of course, "you're fired." But get under his skin and you get something entirely different.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He may be a guy who portrays himself as more manly than mannerly.
TRUMP: How stupid are our leaders?
MOOS: But Donald Trump has taken a page.
CHARACTER: Excuse me.
MOOS: Out of the etiquette books.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stronger background check.
TRUMP: Yes, I have a gun. Excuse me.
MOOS: The Donald has taken the childhood lesson.
CHARACTER: You said excuse me. You used good manners.
MOOS: And Trump has weaponized it.
TRUMP: Excuse me. I raised a lot of money.
MOOS: To verbally beat back his interviewers.
TRUMP: Excuse me, you raised it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you want to interrupt you have to say the words "excuse me."
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: Some times punctuated by a finger.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Or two hands.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: The number of excuse me escalates.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: As tempers rise.
TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are a billionaire, though, why would you not move it here just to have in America?
TRUMP: Excuse me, because I'm a businessman.
MOOS: Donald Trump hasn't just discovered the tactical use of manners. He has been excusing himself for years.
Back in 2011, Chris Matthews counted a record breaking number of excuse mes in a single interview.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. I have very -- excuse me.
CHRIS MATTHEWS: Eighteen excuse mes.
MOOS: But there is one guy who Trumps even trump when it comes to excusing himself.
No, not Homer Simpson.
HOMER SIMPSON: Well, excuse me!
MOOS: Steve Martin.
STEVE MARTIN: Excuse me.
MOOS: It's almost a badge of honor to be asked by name to excuse Donald Trump.
TRUMP: Excuse me, Matt.
Excuse me, Katy.
Excuse me, Savannah.
MOOS: The guy famous for these two words --
TRUMP: You're fired.
MOOS: Fires off these two words.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Way more often.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When an adult is talking. They'll stop talk --
CHARACTER: Excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
CHARACTER: It works. It works. I said excuse me. You stopped talking.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: New York.
BURNETT: That's good manners until it isn't. Excuse me.
Thanks for joining us, everybody.
"AC360" starts right now.