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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Trump to CNN: Won't Fire Aide For Rape Comment; Trump: Top Aide Was "Extremely Angry"; Huckabee: "I Will Not Apologize" For "Oven" Remark; Worker's Confession in New York Prison Break Released. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 28, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:10] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN GUEST HOST: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, Donald Trump on CNN fighting back refusing to fire a top aide after his explosive comments about rape. This as a new poll gives Trump a double digit lead over Jeb Bush in New Hampshire.
Plus, a bombshell confession from prison worker Joyce Mitchell. What did she tell investigators about her relationship with the two escapees and the plot to kill her husband? Mitchell's attorney is OUTFRONT.
And two Florida teens still missing at sea. Their capsized boat was found. My guest tonight, the mother of one of those boys. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett and we are following that breaking news. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, Trump firing back here on CNN. Donald Trump defending his top aide Michael Cohen who said this in quotes by the very definition you can't rape your spouse. Michael Cohen especial counsel to Trump and an executive Vice President at the Trump organization, he was responding to a report in "The Daily Beast." Rape allegations by Ivana Trump against her husband nearly 30 years ago. That came in the middle of their divorce proceedings and the allegations Ivanna Trump has since recanted. Just moments ago, Trump dismissed "The Daily Beast" report and also said he will not be firing Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, you have to understand Michael was extremely angry because he knew it never took place, he knew this website was a joke, considered a joke, and he was very angry. And maybe he didn't even understand the question. But no, I don't, I disagreed with him. In fact, when I read it, I disagreed. I didn't that he said it. Who knows what he said. Because frankly, I'm not sure that they reported accurately, anyway. But assuming he said it, no, I disagree with that.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hmm. But you're still -- I mean, you're not going to fire him or get rid of him?
TRUMP: No, I'm not.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: This all as a new poll as New Hampshire Republicans has Trump now on top with 24 percent, and that is double Jeb Bush's 12 percent. Just look at that lineup.
Now, Sara Murray is OUTFRONT for us tonight. Sara, Trump has withered other controversies recently. Could this one be different in your view?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Kate, if you can see from those poll numbers, voters have been pretty forgiving of Donald Trump's various controversies but tonight we got something a little bit different. We got an apology from inside Donald Trump's inner circle. Let's take a look.
MURRAY (voice-over): Even for a campaign known for over statements.
TRUMP: I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created.
MURRAY: And defensive remarks.
TRUMP: They are bringing drugs. They are bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people.
MURRAY: Tonight, comments about rape from Donald Trump's long-time counsel and surrogate Michael Cohen may have gone too far. In an interview with "The Daily Beast" published overnight, Cohen said that legally, quote, "you cannot rape your spouse," when asked about a decade's old allegation made by Trump's first wife Ivanna during their divorce proceedings. At the time, Ivanna alleged Trump had forced her to have sex against her will, an accusation she later walked back. Cohen then threatened "The Daily Beast" reporter saying, quote, "I'm warning you, tread very expletive lightly because what I'm going to do to you is going to be expletive disgusting."
Within hour, the campaign distance himself from Cohen who until today had been an Omni-present surrogate for the developer turned candidate.
MICHAEL COHEN, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DONALD TRUMP: Donald Trump has hit a chord. There is a long white road ahead for this campaign.
MURRAY: Trump himself addressed the controversy this afternoon in an interview with Don Lemon.
TRUMP: So what happened is he probably got angry. No, I disagree with it. In fact, when I first saw it, I said wow, you know, something I disagree with but that's the way it is and, you know, he's speaking for himself. He's not speaking for me, obviously.
MURRAY: In a statement today, Cohen tried to walk back his controversial comment saying the reporter had upset him and that in my moment of shock and anger, I made an inarticulate comment which I do not believe and which I apologize for entirely. Meanwhile, Trump's former wife Ivanna, the mother of three of his children called "The Daily Beast" account of her rape allegation totally without merit saying, I think he would make an incredible president.
MURRAY: Now, it's too soon to tell whether this latest dustup will cost Donald Trump support but one thing is clear, this is not the conversation the Trump campaign was hoping to be having just days before the first republican presidential debate -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: And you can be sure, though, that conversation is continuing now ahead of that debate. Sara, thanks so much.
OUTFRONT with us tonight, Donald Trump's campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. Corey, thanks so much for coming in. Surprised we're going to be talking about this, allegations from 30 years ago now coming back up. We heard from Donald Trump himself speaking to Don, he says that he disagrees with Michael but he says that he is not going to be firing him. Why?
[19:05:18] COREY LEWANDOWSKI, DONALD TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, no one speaks for Mr. Trump but Mr. Trump and he was very clear that he disagreed with the comments that Michael Cohen made and Michael Cohen's comments are those of his own. He was clearly upset with the acquisition of a story which is 30 plus years old that's been widely reported on in the past. And, you know, he felt obligated to say things that he clearly regretted. So, Mr. Trump was clear about this. He did not condone this. He did not approve, did not even know about this when this took place. And so, Mr. Cohen is going to stay on board with Mr. Trump.
BOLDUAN: There is a question though of why you want to keep him on board with Mr. Trump because this is a person he's not affiliated with the campaign you say but he is suggested by the campaign as someone to speak as a surrogate, to speak really on behalf of Mr. Trump, you want someone why says this kind of stuff to a reporter to speak on behalf of him?
LEWANDOWSKI: Let me be clear, and it's very important to understand the distinction here. Michael Cohen is not a campaign employee. He works for the Trump corporation which he has thousands of employees. He is not part of the campaign. Mr. Cohen serves at a capacity as a special counsel and advisor to Mr. Trump in that capacity.
BOLDUAN: Corey, is that kind of a difference without a distinction?
LEWANDOWSKI: It's a very important distinction. It's a very important distinction. Michael Cohen has not work for the campaign and what he says and his thoughts are those of his own and do not represent the campaign or that of Mr. Trump.
BOLDUAN: And do your campaign regret putting him out there and suggesting him as a surrogate to speak on behalf.
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I can say I've never suggested that. I mean, Mr. Cohen is called on all the time to speak on behalf of a number of things.
BOLDUAN: I know for a fact the campaign has suggested him as a surrogate.
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I can say that, I get a lot of phone calls and actually don't have the ability to do all the requests that we have. I'm happy to do yours, obviously. I feel that I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to come here but Mr. Trump is very clear that he doesn't agree with those comments and now we're moving on to talk about the poll numbers in New Hampshire.
BOLDUAN: No kidding you want to talk about those poll numbers in New Hampshire. That's for sure. And those poll numbers are following the McCain controversy and it does clearly show that voters want to hear Trump's message, tone, though, tone in any organization, Corey, is set from the top. Everyone says that. You guys are really comfortable having someone as part of the organization who says, tread very f-ing lightly because what I'm going to do to you is going to be f-ing disgusting. That's troubling.
LEWANDOWSKI: Let's talk about tone. A lot of candidates have talked about tone. Our country is in such trouble. Right? They are literally beheading Christians over in the Middle East. They are drowning these people in cages and some of the opponents in this race want to use political posture to say they don't like Mr. Trump's tone. Mr. Trump is a businessman who gets things done. He's the best negotiator on the stage. He's the best negotiator potentially in the country.
BOLDUAN: But you are saying this is coming -- this is like opposition research, people trying to distract, is that what you're trying to say?
LEWANDOWSKI: No, what I'm saying is, it's not about tone. It's about being able to accomplish something. You know, I think what we have to understand is our country is in great trouble. Our unemployment rate is high. We have illegal aliens coming across the border and killing Americans. We see time and time again that our veterans are treated like third class citizens. Let's not worry about the tone. Let's worry about putting Americans back on track. And making America great again. That's what we should be focused on.
BOLDUAN: Are you worried when you have comments like this, yes, you're focused on polls. I know that you guys are focused on other big issues and you're getting ready for this debate. But you have someone speaking on behalf who is saying by definition, you can't rape your spouse. Are you worried that this could stick, that this could hurt you with female voters?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, Mr. Trump has said very clearly, he doesn't condone the comments. I don't know what else to say. This is a staff story. This has nothing to do with Mr. Trump or the campaign. This is not a campaign individual. This is a person who works for the Trump organization. So, you know, with that said, I think it's important that the public wants to talk about the issues that they care about which is jobs and the economy and security and making sure illegal aliens are no longer killing Americans.
BOLDUAN: This does not worry you guys? LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think what is worrying us is that we see that
the country is not moving forward and it's time to make America great again. The American public is tired of politics as usual. The type of politicians were all talk and no action. It's time to put someone in a leadership position who can actually get things done. That's what worries me, is there's a percentage of the population out there that still thinks that a candidate other than Donald Trump should be the nominee and that is what troubled me more than actually where we are right now.
BOLDUAN: Your spin sometimes amazes me, Corey. I appreciate you coming on.
LEWANDOWSKI: It's great to be here.
BOLDUAN: Thanks so much, Corey. We'll see you soon, I'm sure.
I want to bring in now, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp. S.E., you were listening to all of this. You've heard the back and forth and you heard right there. Corey Lewandowski, the campaign manager speaking out for Trump and about these comments. You have been critical yourself of Donald Trump. He says that he is not firing Michael Cohen. In your view is that a mistake?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Michael Cohen is a goon. I've interacted with Michael Cohen before and what he did --
BOLDUAN: Wow, that's a strong statement.
[19:10:03] CUPP: Well, I stand by it. I said it earlier today, I wrote about it in the Daily News. I think, you know, what he did to that reporter is absolutely inexcusable and tone does matter. There is no justification for threatening a reporter who is trying to do his job and if Michael Cohen is not attached in any way to the campaign, why is he fielding requests from journalists about Donald Trump's campaign? It makes no sense. And I understand the campaign's interest in distancing themselves from Michael Cohen. It's good that they are embarrassed by him. But trust me Donald Trump is very loyal to his employees. Michael Cohen will still be in Donald Trump's inner cycle, maybe dealing with journalists behind the scenes. I don't know.
Maybe dealing with donors behind the scenes, I don't know. Michael Cohen has gotten in a little trouble before for seeming to cross the line from employing of Donald Trump to working on his campaign and not just this year but back in 2012. So, I think Michael Cohen is a huge detriment to their Trump campaign going forward. And if Donald Trump wants to be taken seriously by more than just a sliver of the republican base, he should get rid of Michael Cohen completely. He does him absolutely no favors.
BOLDUAN: And they really, I mean, I mean, I asked, you heard me ask Corey, they are sticking by him, they say --
CUPP: Yes. BOLDUAN: -- that they are not going to be firing, they're not going to let him go. That's for sure. I mean, when you look at the poll numbers, that's what they point to. Right? They say that this -- they say that this is a distraction and you need to just look at the polls. I mean, he's leading in more than one national poll.
BOLDUAN: None of the controversy so far with the least amount that our viewers know them. None of them have stuck on him so far.
BOLDUAN: So, is this one you think going to hurt him in the long run or not?
CUPP: Mark Cuban said something great today. He said that he loves Donald Trump, he doesn't really care what his positions are. He likes the way that he talks and I think that's really representative of Trump supporters in general. They like the way he talks. They are not necessarily interested in his positions. I mean, I would have thought that criticizing or questioning the heroism of a POW would have been disqualifying among conservatives. I would have thought that suggesting Democrats run better economies than Republicans would have been disqualifying. It's clear that Trump supporters are not really interested in his positions or these gasps.
So I do think the problem for Trump though is that capturing 20 percent of the republican base is by no one's map, a majority of Republicans and if he wants to capture more than just sort of this sliver of the party, either in a primary or in a general, he's going to have to address some of these both tonal issues and lack of policy substance going forward.
BOLDUAN: We'll see. At this point, they don't seem to be following much strategy other than following the man at the top.
CUPP: So winging it, yes.
BOLDUAN: It's working for him so far. That's for sure, S.E.
CUPP: Yes. Yes.
BOLDUAN: Great to see you, thanks so much.
BOLDUAN: And an important note to all of you. You can see Don Lemon's interview with Donald Trump on CNN tonight. That's at 10:00 Eastern. A lot more there.
OUTFRONT for us, next. Mike Huckabee refusing to back down from his holocaust comments even if the top Israeli official says that those comments were unacceptable. Should Huckabee apologize?
Plus, more breaking news, prison worker Joyce Mitchell's confession released with stunning new details about her relationship with the two escapees. Mitchell's lawyer is OUTFRONT with us.
And it's a desperate race against time to find two teenagers reported missing at sea for nearly five days now. My guest, the mother of one of the missing teens.
[19:17:27] BOLDUAN: Tonight republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee is refusing to back down from his controversial comments accusing President Obama of marching Israelis to the in his words, "door of the oven" with the Iran nuclear deal. But even some who agree with Governor Huckabee on their opposition to the Iran deal, they're aren't standing by his choice of words. One top Israeli official today called the comments wrong and unnecessary. Another said Huckabee was inappropriate.
Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mike Huckabee not only sticking to his guns but looking to capitalize on the spotlight of the controversy.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, he meant it.
SERFATY: Doubling down in campaign videos on Facebook.
HUCKABEE: And the Ayatollahs of Iran, they'll know that hell will freeze over before they get a nuclear weapon.
SERFATY: On Twitter in fundraising pitches and in interviews.
HUCKABEE: The metaphor, it should be strictly used but in this case, it's absolutely appropriate because the Iranians are threatening the murder of millions of Jews.
SERFATY: Refusing to apologize, refusing to back down.
HUCKABEE: I will not apologize and I will not recant because the word holocaust was invoked by the Iranian government.
SERFATY: Huckabee's reference to the holocaust in his criticism of the Iran deal.
HUCKABEE: We would take the Israelis and basically march them to the door of the oven.
SERFATY: Has drawn rebuke even from those who agree with him about the deal itself.
RON DERMER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: I would never use those words and I don't think it's appropriate.
SERFATY: And sharp disapproval from the left. PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Particular comments of Mr.
Huckabee are, I think, part of just a general pattern that we've seen that would be considered ridiculous if it weren't so sad.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I find this kind of inflammatory rhetoric totally unacceptable.
SERFATY: But the reaction from his rivals in the republican field have been mixed, some coming to his defense.
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Governor Huckabee is absolutely right, they have, remember, they hold holocaust denying conferences in Tehran routinely.
SERFATY: Others walking a fine line dismissing Huckabee's language but not his message.
BUSH: The Iran deal is horrific and it is creates for more dangerous than its problems that it solves but I think we need to tone down the rhetoric for sure.
SERFATY: Despite the dustup over the way he voiced his opposition to the deal, his point is one that many Americans seem to agree with, a new CNN ORC poll shows 52 percent want Congress to reject the deal with Iran.
SERFATY: And Huckabee in the past has made comparisons to the holocaust that other times when speaking about abortion and gun control. And in that interview with the Yahoo News today, he admit that the metaphor is not a good one but he says in this case in talking about the Iran deal, he says it is absolutely appropriate so again, Kate, he is standing very firmly by those comments.
BOLDUAN: He sure is. Sunlen, thanks so much.
OUTFRONT with us now, chairman of the House Florida Affairs Committee republican Congressman Ed Royce. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for being with us. I know that you agree with Mike Huckabee in terms of opposing the Iran deal. And Mr. Chairman, do you then agree with them in what he said in saying that President Obama is marching the Israelis to the oven door with this deal?
REP. ED ROYCE (R-CA), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: That's not a metaphor I would use but remember, one of the interesting aspects of this is that the tweets that we hear and the messaging coming out of Iran even after this deal was finalized continues to build on the message that Israel is a one-bomb country, that Israel must be destroyed. I think that's the shock that we watch that interview or read about it where "The New York Times" reporter asks President Rouhani about the future. And he says, the future was very bright. And behind him, the crowd is yelling death to America and in front of them they are carrying signs that say death to Israel.
So, the messaging out of Iran is what is complicating this issue right now. We had, I think, presumed that Iran would step down from the rhetoric about destroying Israel, instead, if anything, the rhetoric is amplified and that is something that needs to be reported on, wouldn't you think, in the middle of this agreement the fact that Iran continued with this rhetoric about the little Satan and the great Satan being us and the need to destroy them.
[19:22:06] BOLDUAN: It's an excellent point and it's excellent for you to point out, Mr. Chairman, in terms of though as you've say, the rhetoric that's out there, this rhetoric coming from the campaign trail, one more question on that.
BOLDUAN: I spoke last night with RNC's chief strategists and communications director and when I asked him about this, he says that it's not their job to referee comments coming from presidential candidates. You say this is not a metaphor that you would use. Do you think your party needs to come out and say the same, at least?
ROYCE: Well, one of the questions I have is on a slightly different issue but when we notice this message coming from the Middle East where Israel is being threatened and the United States with destruction and at the same time we hear, we hear the Ayatollah say, it's the responsibility for every military man to figure out how to help mass produce intercontinental ballistic missiles, shouldn't that be reported on, and is this really becoming part of the debate or are we ignoring the very rhetoric that is being used right now in Iran about the destruction?
BOLDUAN: I don't think the rhetoric --
ROYCE: Of Jerusalem and the destruction of the U.S. I don't see enough discussion on that subject and that's where I want to drive the attention in the media because I think they might mean it.
BOLDUAN: It's good to point out, I mean, also worth pointing out that Israeli officials though in terms of the rhetoric here state side, they don't agree with what Huckabee said. I know you said the same. I do want to ask you though. You had this important hearing today, Secretary Kerry speaking before you. You had a tense back and forth where you both clearly disagree on, if this deal is worth it and will do what Secretary Kerry promises and the administration promises it will do, I get the sense from what I'm hearing from you, that nothing he said in that hearing has changed your mind at all but with that in mind, Mr. Chairman, do you think you have the votes, the support, to stop this deal?
ROYCE: I don't think we know that at this point because we're still in the process of getting into the deal. This was a four-hour hearing today as we got into many of the details but many members of Congress and as you saw in the hearing on both sides of the aisle can't figure out how at the 11th hour, Iran would also now demand that the intercontinental ballistic missile program, that the embargo against that would be lifted and that in the future, presumably, now Russia will be able to sell that targeting information to Iran. That's what it looks like to many of us in Congress because at the
U.N., they lifted that embargo and that was last-minute demand, how did we get rolled on that and how is it possible that the IAEA, the international inspectors do not have any of the answers to the 12 questions when we started this process that was part of that interim agreement as I understood it. We were supposed to have those answers, we still don't have those answers. So, yes, there is real concerns I think on both sides of the aisle in terms of, can you verify this agreement?
BOLDUAN: Yes. You are clearly not satisfied, Mr. Chairman. The debate continues as that 60 day review period is ticking away. We'll have you back to continue the discussion. We really appreciate your time.
ROYCE: Thank you, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Of course, OUTFRONT for us next, breaking news, prison worker Joyce Mitchell's bombshell confession. New details about her relationship with the convicts and the plot to kill her husband. Mitchell's attorney is our guest and you've heard him say it again and again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: I'm using my own money, I'm not using the lobbyist, I'm not using donors, I don't care. I'm really rich.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Donald Trump says, he is worth 10 billion. Is that really true?
[19:29:53] BOLDUAN: Breaking news -- a bombshell confession. CNN obtaining Joyce Mitchell's admission that reveals graphic and shocking details about the New York prison break and her sexual relationship with one of the inmates.
[19:30:06] Mitchell pleaded guilty today to supplying convicted killers Richard Matt and David Sweat with the tools that they needed to break out of that maximum security prison. And yet, despite Mitchell's confession, her husband is sticking by his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you standing by her?
LYLE MITCHELL, HUSBAND OF JOYCE MITCHELL: One hundred percent.
MITCHELL: Because I love her.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: Alexandra Field is OUTFRONT in Plattsburg, New York.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joyce Mitchell cheerful in court and taking responsibility.
ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Because the evidence was so overwhelming, Ms. Mitchell she acknowledged guilt.
FIELD: The 51-year-old former prison employee admitting she helped inmates Richard Matt and David Sweat escape from New York's Clinton correctional facility.
JUDGE: Are you pleading guilty because you are in fact guilty?
FIELD: Newly released documents reveal the details of what Joyce Mitchell knew and when.
"I've known about them cutting the hole in the wall for about three or four weeks," Mitchell tells investigators in the days following the escaped, admitting she used hamburger meat to smuggle hacksaw blades to give to the inmates.
During the police interviews, Mitchell goes on in graphic detail about relationship she had with the convicted killers, revealing she had sent Sweat sexual letters and naked photos but adding that she only had sexual contact with Matt.
"We were alone and inmate Matt grabbed me and kissed me. It startled me. He kissed me with an open mouth kiss. I didn't say anything because I was scared for my husband who also works in the facility."
Mitchell also says there was oral sex with Matt and other sexual encounters with the inmate who plotted to kill her husband, referred to as "The Glitch".
She explains, "The agreed upon meeting time was midnight. I was to drive my Jeep and bring my cell phone, GPS, clothes, a gun, tents, sleeping bag, hatchet, fishing poles and money from a package I never picked up. After I picked them up, the plan was to drive to my home and inmate Matt was going to kill the glitch. After we were going to drive somewhere, I can't remember where we were going to go but I know I was told it was around six, seven hours away."
The plan to lay low in the woods together for a week says Mitchell, then Matt would split off leaving her and Sweat together. But Mitchell got cold feet and couldn't go through with it, telling investigators she loved her husband Lyle too much.
FIELD: And Lyle Mitchell was in court today to support Joyce Mitchell. Under the terms of this plea deal, Joyce Mitchell had to fully cooperate with the state's ongoing investigation into the prison, 12 prison employees have been put on leave and another prison employee Gene Palmer is facing criminal charges. His case will go to a grand jury next month. David Sweat's case will also go to the a grand jury and while, Kate, Sweat is already serving a life sentence, the district attorney say as conviction in this case could help to ensure the strictest conditions of confinement for Sweat -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Alexandra, thank you.
And OUTFRONT is Stephen Johnston. He is Joyce Mitchell's attorney.
So, Mr. Johnston, thank you so much for joining us. Joyce Mitchell, she is now facing up to seven years in prison.
Why take the deal?
STEPHEN JOHNSTON, ATTORNEY FOR JOYCE MITCHELL: Well, we decided to take the deal because first of all, the two charges she pled to by her statements and admissions to the police, she actually in fact committed those offenses, number one. And number two, there was the potential for other charges. So, the benefit to her for taking the this deal was she avoided prosecution on other charges and therefore avoided longer stints in prison.
BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean --
JOHNSTON: So, that's why we did it.
BOLDUAN: And under the deal, the district attorney spoke about it and he said that, as you said, because of the deal, he's now not going to be filing any type of sexual assault or rape charges against Mitchell. Is that what this comes down to for her not being able to avoid being charged with sexual assault or rape?
JOHNSTON: Well, to be honest with you, my primary concern was not that, nor was it the allegations flying around that she conspired to murder her husband. I don't think those were the ones that are really provable beyond a reasonable doubt.
BOLDUAN: Now, on the sexual assault and rape charges, you don't think they had provable evidence to back those charges up?
JOHNSTON: From what I know, I don't believe that they would have had enough evidence to convict her.
[19:35:04] But I'm not certain of that.
BOLDUAN: Now, her confession was just released. We really just got our hands on it. And it does go into pretty graphic detail about her sexual relationship with Richard Matt. I mean, she says in this confession, she says that it all started when Matt grabbed her and kissed her, and she also said the that that startled me and he kissed me with an open mouth kiss.
Now, to be quite honest, sir, can't go into other details on air because they are graphic so about the relationship. I mean, this lays out a sexual relationship, you can't deny that. JOHNSTON: I think the things you're referring to are situations where
she was intimidated and in a way forced to do that. It was not a situation that she did voluntarily and that would have been the defense that would have been raised. But once again, by the plea offer that was made, we sidestepped those issues.
BOLDUAN: And you also talk about kind of you said the wild accusations being floated around about conspiracy to murder her husband -- that is, that is discussed in this confession and she explains in her confession how she was supposed to give her husband two pills, then drive Matt and Sweat to her home so matt could kill her husband who they called "the glitch". She's not going to be charged with the conspiracy to murder her husband as you've detailed but what does she say about that now? We're reading it here in the confession for the first time.
JOHNSTON: Matt made these statements and that's when she became aware and she should have been aware of this before. But that's when it was driven home the to her, that she was over her head in helping these guys out, and when they started talking about this, is when she started shrinking from providing assistance.
BOLDUAN: She details in this confession what -- that she was supposed to give him pills. That she was going to drive him to her home and that she knew in this confession that Richard Matt was going to try to kill her husband who they refer to as "the glitch", but she still and you still maintain she doesn't think she was part of the conspiracy.
JOHNSTON: Just because she's reciting what Matt wanted to do or may have wanted to do, that does not mean that she was party to it and I don't believe she was.
BOLDUAN: What is your sense on how she's doing?
JOHNSTON: My sense is that she's very depressed. What she has done to put her family through, what they have been put through, she's lost her job. She's paying a price.
She's very upset about that, all of these things that I mentioned. So --
BOLDUAN: Stephen Johnson, thank you so much for your time.
JOHNSTON: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: And tonight on CNN, just how did the prisoners pull off their bold escape? A CNN special report, "The Great Prison Escape". That airs at 9:00.
OUTFRONT next, a pivotal day for two teenagers missing at sea for nearly five days now. I'm going to speak to the mother of one of those missing boys, next.
And Donald Trump says he is worth more than $10 billion but a new report says it's more like $3 billion. Still a lot. But who's right?
[19:42:20] BOLDUAN: It is a pivotal day in the search for two teenagers who went missing off the Florida coast. The Coast Guard said the boys could survive four or five days in the warm ocean water, but the situation is becoming more desperate by the minute.
Martin Savidge has the very latest on the search.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The search to find two South Florida teens missing at sea since Friday now extends all the way to South Carolina. On boats, aircraft and sometimes even on foot along beach fronts, searchers are looking for any signs of the two 14-year-old friends who their families say practically grew up in the water.
CARLY BLACK, MOTHER OF TEEN MISSING AT SEA: These boys have been out there doing this forever. It's not new to them. They prepare for these situations.
SAVIDGE: Even after finding the boys' capsized boat, Coast Guard officials say they are still treating the search as a rescue operation, with hope the boys could survive four to five days in the water. But with the search entering its fifth day and no sign of Perry Cohen or Austin Stephanos, the situation grows more dire by the minute.
Weather data from last Friday, around the time the teen set off shows they may have been headed directly into a line of strong thunderstorms, according to the Coast Guard, the boys passed through this inlet out to sea around 1:30 Friday afternoon. Around the same time along the Atlantic Florida Coast, the National Weather Service was posting special marine warnings, telling boaters to seek shelter.
James Dulin can attest to that. A commercial fisherman, he struggled through the same storm on his much bigger boat.
JAMES DULIN, COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN: It was blowing so hard, I mean, I'm guessing it was blowing 50, 60 mile an hour. Pure white, you can't see anything. You can't see nothing at all.
SAVIDGE: All of this could explain how things might have gone very bad, very fast for the youths.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that's a negative. We just confirmed, nobody is on board.
SAVIDGE: And why their boat was discovered Sunday upside down, 170 miles away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it a Yamaha?
SAVIDGE: And as the sun sets down here, the Coast Guard is preparing, Kate, to go into the fifth night of searching. They admit there have been some discussions about when may be the appropriate time to call the search off. They aren't at that point yet. The family knows that point will come -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Martin, thank you so very much.
Let's talk to one of those family members. Joining me on the phone right now is Pamela Cohen, Perry Cohen's mother.
Pamela, how are you holding up?
PAMELA COHEN, PERRY COHEN'S MOTHER (via telephone): We're holding up as best as anybody can expect, really. We're 100 percent committed to finding and rescuing those boys, as is the Coast Guard and we will not stop until we get them back home with us.
[19:45:06] BOLDUAN: Absolutely understandable. The Coast Guard, of course, has said the boys could survive, they think four or five days in that warm water. We're now entering as Martin laid out the fifth day, the fifth night of searching.
What is keeping you hopeful and optimistic at this point, that they're going to find your son safe and sound?
COHEN: We know our boys. We know the determination and courage they have. We know the skills they have. We know how athletically fit and able they are.
Both of our boys learned how to swim before they learned how to walk. And so, we just feel very, very confident that they will be able to stick through this. They know that we're coming for them and we will get them.
BOLDUAN: We keep putting those sweet faces, those pictures up in order in hopes that someone sees them. I know that you're really hoping that other boaters keep an eye out for those -- for tem. What's your message to them tonight?
COHEN: We need everybody, not just boaters, people on the beaches and remote locations to be out there, if you're out on the water in a boat and you're driving by something and it's -- just stop and take a look and go out of your way a couple minutes, go and check and see what that possibly might be. We need everybody to really just be on high, high alert and help us get the boys back.
BOLDUAN: Pamela, everyone is holding out hope with you as you enter the fifth night. Thank you so much for calling in.
COHEN: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
OUTFRONT next, a new report says that Donald Trump is worth one-third of what he claims. So, what is the truth? We're going to search for it. And Jeanne Moos with a guy that doesn't let life's little road blocks stand in his way.
[19:50:23] BOLDUAN: Donald Trump no question loves to talk about his money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't need anybody's money, it's nice. So, I have a total net worth and now with the increase, it will be well over $10 billion. I'm actually worth more than 10. I'm really rich.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Ten billion dollars, really rich. But is that really true? Bloomberg has been crunching the numbers and they are difficult to crunch and they say it is much less than that, closer to $2.9 billion.
OUTFRONT tonight, the reporter who tallied Trump's networth for Bloomberg News, Caleb Melby.
Caleb, you did a tough job.
CALEB MELBY, REPORTER, BLOOMBERG BILLIONAIRES INDEX: Yes, it's a lot to look at.
BOLDUAN: It's a lot to look at, his financial disclosures and all of that.
So, you arrived at $2.9 billion. As he's heard Trump over and over say he's worth more than $10 billion.
So, what's the $7 billion difference?
MELBY: So, we don't quite know what Trump's methodology is. We are approaching at a present value basis of tangible assets. He gives himself a $3.3 billion valuation for his brand and licensing deals. We do not do that. In some cases, for his golf courses we give him a premium based on his brand in that space, but we don't treat his brand as a line item in and of itself.
The other big difference is despite the difference based on revenues for those golf courses disclosed in his federal disclosures to run for president, we still don't get the same value for golf courses that he does. We're a little under $600 million versus $2 billion for him.
BOLDUAN: I mean, at $3.3 billion in the value of his brand, how do you calculate the value of a brand I guess is where that begins. But Trump has come out today to comment on your story just to Don Lemon in an interview. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: By the way, they don't know what they're talking about. They say they don't know many of the companies that I'm even -- that they're dealing with. It was a stupid report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: A stupid report, Caleb, and you don't know the companies he's dealing with. What do you think?
MELBY: I appreciate Trump's thoughts, but actually, more so than other people who own private companies, we have a really good idea of what Donald owns because he filed --
BOLDUAN: Because of New York, right?
MELBY: Well, because New York real estate is so transparent there, but also because of the federal disclosures. He lists like 515 companies that he has titles at, more than 160 things he considers assets and values and incomes and revenue figures for a lot of them.
So, in addition to the things we calculate based on market information in New York and for golf courses, Trump is giving us a lot of information to work with.
BOLDUAN: A lot to work with and, of course, he'll have a lot to say about it. So, in the end, I think what folks want to know because he loves talking about it so much, were you able to reach a conclusion, is Trump exaggerating his wealth?
MELBY: We -- I'm not going to say he's exaggerating. When we take the present value of the tangible assets, not including a line item for his brand, when we count all of the properties, the golf courses, the skyscrapers, Mar-A-Lago in Florida, we come to $2.9 billion.
BOLDUAN: We will see if he wants to let us know where the rest of the $7 billion comes from.
Caleb, good work. Thanks for coming in.
MELBY: Thanks for having me.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos with the biker that took a wetty matter into his own hands.
[19:57:25] BOLDUAN: So, for the annoying drivers out there who block bike lanes or double park on busy streets, you my friends are about to meet your match.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's the kind of thing you see in movies, instead of Vin Diesel and "Furious 7", this is a furious bike rider who singlehandedly picks up a car, a car blocking a bike path in Brazil and moves it foot by foot to the amazement of onlookers.
When he's done, he just peddles away. Is he truly Hulk in Brazil, or is this some marketing stunt?
We don't know but the story is a pick-me-up for commenters. "This guy can move a car with ease while it takes me 10 minutes to open a jar of salsa."
The last time we saw something like this, it was a viral ad featuring a specially designed lightweight taxi, a fake traffic cop, then a traffic cab driver.
In real life, not so easy after this biker ran into a car and got trapped underneath, it took Dallas police and firemen and civilians to lift the vehicle and pull out the biker and look how many Good Samaritans it took to lift a 4,000 pound BMW a few years back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my gosh.
MOOS: That biker also survived.
But could a single strong man do this alone?
Fiat salesman agrees it looks like an old Fiat Uno.
Would that be hard for one guy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
MOOS: Now, if we picked up a tank like this, it would be a big deal but some are saying that a car like the Fiat Uno weighs 1,600 pounds total, and since he picked up the end where the engine isn't, that means picking up a few hundred pounds.
Only a few hundred, that's probably when the family guy thought when he offered to serve as a human jack.
CHARACTER: Lift with your lower back in a jerking twisting motion.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
BOLDUAN: I love some people trying to criticize him, he's still lifting a car, people. That's pretty crazy. I'm going to leave with you that.
Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you again tomorrow night.
"AC360" starts right now.