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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Debris Possibly from Missing Malaysian Flight Found; Trump Sounds Off to CNN; American Dentist Who Killed Beloved African Lion Goes Underground; Asinine White Cop Charged with Killing Black Man. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 29, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:15] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news. The discovery of plane debris could be from Malaysian airlines flight that vanished more than a year ago. The debris was found off the coast of a remote island in the western Indian Ocean and is being examined right now to see if it is connected to the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 and the 239 people aboard presumed dead.
A source close to the investigation tonight tell CNN, Boeing has looked at the photos and the debris is consistent with a piece of the wing from a 777 which is the type of plane that Malaysia airlines flight was.
Now, we have also just learned the Malaysian government has sent a team to Reunion Island where the debris was found off the coast. If you remember, the flight took off from Malaysia in March of 2014 bound for Beijing. Now if it turns out this is wreckage from that flight it would be a major discovery in a search that had gone on for nearly 17 months.
Randi Kaye reports.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): March 8th, 2014, just after midnight in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysian airlines flight 370 takes off bound for Beijing, 239 people on board.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 370, 32 right, cleared for take-off. Goodnight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 32, right cleared for take-off. Thank you. Bye.
KAYE: Forty minutes into the flight, the airplane's transponder suddenly goes dark.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: The plane's transponder is effectively the instrument which send out a signal to air traffic control. It tells you what height it is at, which direction and what speed it is traveling. Suddenly, this giant 777 is, is blind to the world.
KAYE: It is the middle of the night. And the plane simply vanishes, no distress call. An air traffic control waits two hours before notifying emergency responders.
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: That two hours was incredibly critical towards finding the aircraft and finding if there were survivors.
KAYE: At first, the search focuses on the South China Sea where the plane fell off the radar. Then it shifts to the southern Indian Ocean where it is believed the plane turned off course.
Early on, numerous false leads. Oil slicks in the ocean off Vietnam, a floating yellow object thought to be a life raft turns out to be sea trash, and Chinese satellite images showing three wide objects floating near the plane's last confirmed position. Turns out those images were released by mistake.
The search later turns to the southern part of the Indian Ocean. After new radar and satellite communications are analyzed, it's believed the plane's communication system was still automatically sending out electronic handshakes to a satellite even though the transponder was dark. This allows authorities to plot its mysterious course.
The search area moves again in late march.
HISHAMMUDDIN BIN TUN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIA'S ACTING TRANSPORT MINISTER: MH 370 flew at a higher speed than previously thought which in turn means it used more fuel and could not travel as far. The Australian authorities indicated they shifted the search area approximately 1,100 kilometers to the northeast.
KAYE: High tech listening devices called toad pinger locaters are deployed on the bottom of the sea listening from sound from the pinger attached to the black box. And they picked up a signal. It is the first sign of hope.
TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We have very much narrowed down the search area. And we are very confident that the signals that we are detecting are from the black box.
KAYE: But the signal fade before the black box is located. Autonomous underwater vehicles which map the ocean floor are also used, 22 planes and 19 ships on the hunt. Still no answers. More than 16 months since the disappearance, authorities are still looking for the missing plane. But with much fewer resources.
ABBOTT: We can't go on forever. But, as long as there are reasonable leads, the search will go on.
KAYE: This latest discovery perhaps the lead they were waiting for.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
COOPER: Well, the questions about flight 370 are many and mysterious still. Authorities do not know why the plane turned off-course, where it went down. With this new possible discovery, we wanted to take a look at the flight path as we know it and occurrence to see exactly what we can find out.
CNN's aviation correspondent Richard Quest joins me with that.
So knowing what you know about the flight path of MH 370, does it make sense that this debris could travel this far?
QUEST: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I am going to show you how, Anderson. As I am doing this if a question occurs, you jump on in and ask away.
Now, as Randi Kaye made it clear a moment ago. This is what we know happened with the flight plan so far. The plane takes off. It goes over. It comes down over Indonesia. And the plane heads down way into the southern Indian Ocean.
But so far so good. Look at how this actually comes to be shown in terms of the total map. The plane is coming from the top of the south, Southeast Asia. I am going to draw it down. It then comes down, right the way to here. And about here, is where the best opinion suggests the plane went down. All that can be said is pretty much now that's where the plane.
And now look at the western way in which it is believed the currents moved it out toward the west. If we move the map in a bit. You will see from this search zone. You are talking about the wreckage or if it is part of the plane. You are talking about it moving 2,500 miles out toward San Reunion out in the western part of the Indian Ocean.
But could the currents have actually done that? That seems to be the question. The answer seems to be quite clearly, yes, they could. These are the five major gires that exist around the world. You have the north pacific, the South pacific, the North Atlantic, the South- Atlantic. This is the current that move the debris. They move things around the ocean. And you have the Indian Ocean gire.
Look at that. If we put in play, and we imagine now what we know, Anderson, about where the search area is, where the debris would have gone into the water, and you can start to see, it is not a leap of faith. It is perfectly possible for that debris to have ended up in the fullness of time on the western side of the Indian Ocean.
[20:06:54] COOPER: And yet - I mean, if they're so sure -- if you said the consensus is that's where the plane went down, that area you first showed and that piece of debris, I mean, that's a large piece of debris. You would think if it is from the plane then there would be other large pieces of debris. So why hasn't anything been found in that search area?
QUEST: Very good question to which nobody has any answer. If you ask the question, why hasn't more debris? Let's go back to the actual map of where this whole thing took place. If you go back to, to this area. The one unknown is why there hasn't been more debris found. In fact, any debris found so far. The standard answer is, that they have got there late, 12 days on. A lot of it had sunk. A lot of it had just disappeared. But now we start to find. And you only need one piece, you get this one piece, that, that may have got into the gire. And over the months, and we worked it out. It has to move roughly, 10 miles a day in this environment, 10 miles a day. Which if you look at the currents in this part of the world, if you look at them, this is entirely possible that something could go from here and make its way roughly 10 miles a day out to the western side.
Will there be more? Is the question. And for that people will be looking. And the question is whether or not they should be sending out searches to look over here and over here. But these are vast areas again. The search zone still very firmly remains off Western Australia. That doesn't alter by what we know today.
COOPER: Richard, stay with us because I want to bring in CNN aviation analyst and pilot Miles O'Brien also CNN analyst, David Gallo of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. He co-led the search for Air France flight 447.
Miles, what do you make of this? I mean, the fact that this debris consistent with the Boeing 777. Are there any other 777s that have gone missing or crashed in the Indian Ocean that we know about?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: No. If it is 777 part, you know, you want to check the serial numbers, dot the Is and cross the Ts. But there is no other missing 777 in the Indian Ocean. We can - with fairly good confidence, say that has a link to MH-370. It is not inconsistent with the search area. But the search area, remember Anderson, is not a bulls eye by any stretch. It is a region, a very large region that was found by looking at a communications satellite data, not a navigational satellite. It was actually some clever engineering that even put them in the Southern Indian in the first place.
So it is quite possible they're looking a long way away from where the wreckage is. And you still have this piece wash up where it did. So they still got to keep searching. But we still don't know exactly where.
COOPER: And David, you agree it is very possible based on, on simple calculations this debris could have traveled that far after the plane went missing?
DAVID GALLO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Absolutely. And, I am wishing I had Richard for a professor when I was in graduate school. That would have made it all very easy to understand. But, yes it is well within reason. And the question is to backtrack. And I'm sure, beginning already, there is probably teams of modelers out there trying to figure out where the piece came from so many, 500 some odd days ago. And that's the important part. It is where is the X marks the spot?
Couldn't have come at a better time, Anderson because the teams are now in for the winter months. I think the teams and the ships are in. They're exhausted. They have been out there. Having been there myself, knowing what it is like to spend months at sea, and not find what you are lacking f looking for. This is then kind of boost they need to at least give them the first tangible evidence there is a plane missing some part in that Indian Ocean.
[20:10:47] COOPER: Richard, though, I would think, I mean, aren't there serial numbers in various parts of the debris? I mean, they haven't said that, but I would imagine - I mean, I don't know. Wouldn't there be serial numbers some where there? And if relatively easy to check serial numbers against record of aircraft?
QUEST: In a word, yes. There is lots of serial numbers, every panel, every part of the bit will have a number on it designed specifically for this eventuality. And all the top, I mean, you have got to get the number, you got to check it and Boeing used to use a microfiche to do it and pieces of paper, now it is computerized. And you just have got to double check it. It is - I'm guessing between Seattle, Chicago and Malaysia and Kuala Lumpur and Cambria, that information is going back what supposed Paris as well, because it is the BEA, that's the conduit from the Reunion out there.
Just to take up the point of what David Gallo was saying. The area that is currently being searched is 120,000 square kilometers. Now, they searched just less than half of it so far. There is one ship still currently out there. And it's been winterized. But David is absolutely spot on when he said, because I was reading a report which only came today report from the Australians which basically said it is very difficult. David, you will know more.
They search one day in every two because the weather is so bad at the moment. And in that condition, you have just got to work out, is it possible to have made the 2,500 mile journey.
COOPER: So Miles, have the searches been going on all this time?
O'BRIEN: Yes, they have been plowing through the ocean. And you know, they have been coming up empty. They found a shipwreck which was kind of interesting. But -- there was a lot of discussion most recently about whether the -- the search technique was not accurate or precise. That the company involved was not doing the job correctly. I think David Gallo might have thoughts on that. But they have been plowing through a lot of ocean.
The problem is -- where is that center point? Where is that X marks the spot? And even in the case of air France, 447 as David will tell you, it took them a little while to figure that out. And so, in this case with the, you know, I don't want to say a wild ass guess? But it is closed. They reversed engineered a satellite that wasn't supposed to be able to do this to even get you to the point in the southern Indian Ocean. But that doesn't narrow it down enough.
COOPER: David. What do you make of how the search has been going? I mean, have they been doing a good enough job?
GALLO: Well, Anderson, you know, I was prepared to be unimpressed. And I have some very close colleague that out there on those ships and working with the data. I have seen snippets of it. It is absolutely amazing. They covered the terrain in a very organized way. We always talked about mowing the lawn. They have done that. And the resolution on some of the images I have seen is spectacular.
So I think we are pretty sure we know where the plane isn't. I think there is a few places they want to go back and have a closer look at. But we know where the plane isn't, now the question is, where do they move to next?
The same kind of issues we had with Air France. And we also had the criticism from the peanut gallery saying that, after the first two months coming up empty-handed that. You know, we had the wrong equipment. We weren't experienced. We were a bunch of academic nerds. Why are we out there? And it is the same kind of criticism. It is just horrible. They need confidence from the community not criticism at this point.
COOPER: Well, certainly, if this is a piece of the wing as you said. This will give them a big boost.
David Gallo, thank you. Miles O'Brien and Richard quest. All of you stick around.
There have been so many theories about what happened to Malaysia Airlines flight 370 ranging from scientifically plausible to well, just ridiculous. We'll take a look at more plausible ones coming up next.
Also tonight Donald Trump in a new CNN interview with Dana Bash. You may have seen the story about the lawyer who says Trump called her disgusting for asking to break to pump breast milk years ago during a deposition. Trump blasted the attorney today. Dana also tried to pin him down on specifics, on various policy positions. You will hear that interview ahead.
[20:18:39] COOPER: Again, the breaking news, a source saying Boeing has analyzed photos the debris found off a remote island in the western Indian Ocean, and it seems to be consistent with the 777 like the missing Malaysia airlines plane. Now, the search has been going on since flight 370 disappeared more than a year ago, the search that is really yielded few answers. But certainly a multitude of theories.
Sara Sidner reports.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good night, Malaysian 370.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Good night, Malaysian 370, the last word anyone would ever hear from the ill-fated flight causing unimaginable grief. And unleashing theories from the technical to the sinister. Among them, the pilot crashed the plane on purpose. Investigators looked into whether suicide could have been a reason. Ultimately, the international independent investigation committee said it found no indications that would cast suspicion on him or the crew. Terrorism. Did someone commandeer or hijack the plane to crash it?
Experts are divided on the issue. But hijackers usually have clear demand. That never materialized. And no terrorist group claimed responsibility which led investigators to believe those options are not viable.
The plane landed somewhere. As the months tick by and no pieces of the plane were discovered. Some speculated whether it was possible the plane had landed. But no communications from the people on board or hijack demand made that seem less possible.
Mechanical failure. A theory that a catastrophic electrical or mechanical failure brought the aircraft down is still being considered.
Rapid decompression. The plane suddenly loses cabin pressure and the passengers and crew become unconscious. The plane on autopilot flies until it runs out of fuel and crashes.
But without more evidence they are all just theories. Leaving grieving families in limbo. Wondering what happened to those they lost.
Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.
[20:20:44] COOPER: Yes, in limbo for a long time.
Joining me now is CNN safety analyst and former FAA accident investigator and inspector David Soucie, author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370." With us again, CNN aviation expert Richard Quest and aviation analyst and pilot Miles O'Brien.
David, I mean, if this piece of debris is in fact from the plane, what does it tell you in terms of how and why the plane would crash? Because I think it would surprise a lot of people that there is such a big piece if in fact it was from this plane?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It wouldn't surprise me to have this piece be large even if there was an abrupt and strong impact because of the way it is where located behind the leading edge of the wing. Leading edge of the wing would have taken that impact whether it was a skid on like a ditching or whether with in directly. This part, this piece would have been at the trailing edge of the, of the wing and would have avoided any kind of direct impact.
COOPER: David, I mean, you looked at this closely. Do you believe there is a good chance this is from the plane?
SOUCIE: I do, Anderson. I looked at this. I talked to Boeing mechanics today most of the day. There are some things that are very exclusive and unique to the 777 in this model range, the previous 777, this would not have come from. So it rules out to me and as Miles have pointed out earlier in your program, that there have not been any other 777 accidents in the Indian Ocean that would have potentially provided this debris. So I am increasingly confident that this is actually a 777 part, yes.
COOPER: Miles, I mean, the specific piece of a 777 that was found, when those are deployed, it is usually during a landing, right? So if that's the case, what does it tell you about what may have happened here?
O'BRIEN: It has a dual function, Anderson. It is used to bank the aircraft, what we call Aleron (ph). And it is also used as a flap, to slow down the airplane when you are landing. That's why they call it a flaperon. So, for it to be deployed hanging out from the back of the wing would be sort of a likely scenario for it to break off cleanly as you see here.
So there is two options. Either the plane was banking. And that would support maybe autopilot stall spin scenarios. Or if it was deployed in the configuration for use as a flap, to slow the plane done that lead you down the road to something nefarious. Was somebody trying to fly the plane in as slowly and gently as possible.
COOPER: Why would somebody try to do that?
O'BRIEN: Well, these -- as I have said frequently there is no black box for the human mind. Why would somebody potentially, this is one of the theories that are out there, many theories, very few of which can be discounted. One of the theories was that a person on board the aircraft, either a member of the crew or some other individual, wanted this plane to disappear. If you wanted it to go into the ocean, in such a way that it didn't generate a lot of debris, you want to slow it down as much as possible.
COOPER: Richard, I mean, there, you know, just to Miles' point, there have been so many theories out there about what could have happened to this flight. Mechanical failure, rapid decompression, pilot suicide. Does the piece of debris if determined in fact to be from the plane, does it help investigators? I mean, what can be gleaned from it exactly after so long in the ocean?
QUEST: It will help investigators understand how the plane entered the water -- I say well could help by looking at the various compressions on it, looking at the stresses, looking at the rips. If you are like in the composite material. Where were the forces that hit the, the, this particular point when the aircraft entered the water?
But to the point about whether it assists in any way, because really, Anderson, what we are talking about is what happened here? What happened at this particular point, 1:07 to 1:19 to 1:21 in the morning? What happened there on the cockpit?
And I don't believe at the moment from what I have heard, and, you know, others may disagree that what we know about this helps us understand that.
COOPER: Interesting. Richard, we'll have more with you. David Soucie, Miles O'Brien. We are going to continue to follow this just ahead. We are on for two hours tonight, I should point out all the way until the 10:00 hour. Because there is a lot to cover not only in this, the possible MH-370 wing, but also Donald Trump sitting down with CNN's Dana Bash. Not holding back certainly. They talked about the breast pump charges that was made by an attorney from a deposition years ago, whether or not it is relevant? Should it be relevant? Talked about abortion. And also, Dana asked him about a tendency that many politicians have to exaggerate. All of that ahead.
[20:29:26] COOPER: In Cleveland next week Donald Trump will go face to face with his Republican presidential rivals. Today, though, he took aim at a lawyer who grilled him during a 2011 deposition in a lawsuit over a failed real estate project. During that deposition, this report by the "New York Times," Mr. Trump called the lawyer disgusting, and apparently stormed out of the room after she asked to take a break to pump breast milk for her infant daughter.
Today, Donald Trump called her a vicious horrible person. We will hear from that lawyer, Elizabeth Beck, in the next hour.
Dana Bash sat done with Trump today for a wide ranging interview. She joins me now.
So you asked Trump about the deposition?
[20:30:02] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And as you can imagine you sat down with the Donald Trump at that very Trump Tower bar just like I have. And he certainly does not pull any punches when it come to being personally attacked at least as he perceived it that way. So let's listen to how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was breast pump. She wanted to pump in front of me during a deposition.
BASH: The way she described it was that she wanted to take a break so she could take the pump out.
TRUMP: Not true. If you could ask my lawyer who was there, he said I'd never seen anything like it. She wanted to breast pump in front of me. And I may have said that's disgusting. I may have said something else. I thought it was terrible. She is a horrible person. Knows nothing abut me. I see her she is now the great expert on Donald Trump.
BASH: I guess, the question isn't so much, you know, that she is an expert. But she does have an experience which she clearly doesn't think --
TRUMP: Yes, excuse me. And it's a bad experience. She lost. And that's what the country needs. The country needs somebody that is going to win. We always lose. We lose on trade. We lose to China, Japan, Mexico. We lose to everybody. Wouldn't it be nice if we could finally win something. I beat her so badly. She is a vicious, horrible person. BASH: Because you are not a politician, you know, we don't have your voting record to go on. We don't have, you know, we have your experience as a businessman and, and part of your experience are legal issues. I guess the question --
TRUMP: Well, let me explain that. Let me explain.
So many people are on television that don't know me and they're like experts on me. You know, when Michael Jackson died, I knew him very well. And everybody was talking about Michael Jackson. They didn't know him. They knew nothing. Some of them never even met him.
BASH: One other thing I do want to ask you about that was in "The New York Times," this morning, they went through some of your depositions. Quoted you under oath saying, "I'm no different from a politician running for office." You always want to put the best foot forward. Saying, that you exaggerate.
TRUMP: Well, I do want to put the best. You can call it exaggeration. Of course, I want to put the best foot forward. I'm not going to say, oh, gee, everything is terrible. I'm a very optimistic person. I'm optimistic for the country. Of course, I want to put the best foot forward.
BASH: But do you exaggerate?
TRUMP: Everybody exaggerates. I mean, I guess I do a little bit. I want to say good things.
BASH: On the train up here, I bought your 2000 book "The America We Deserve." $7.99 on Amazon, by the way. I contributed to the empire.
And so on reading on it, there were a couple of things that jumped out of me. One is on abortion. At the time you said that you were pro- choice, now you've changed, right?
TRUMP: Not strongly. But I am pro-life. I had an experience with a friend of mine, who was frankly they were going to abort their child which they ended up having. And their child is like this magnificent person. And it had an impact. I have seen that now a couple of times with other people but I am pro-life.
BASH: You are pro-life, but you do think that there should be exceptions for rape and incest.
TRUMP: Yes. And life, you know, the health of the mother. Because, you know, you have some cases where the mother may die. It's basically Ronald Reagan, had the same thing. He had the three exceptions.
BASH: If you are the Republican nominee you would be the effective leader of the Republican Party. TRUMP: Yes.
BASH: Would you make sure that that exception or those exceptions would be in the Republican Party platform?
TRUMP: Well, I think it would be something I would discuss very seriously with the people in the Republican Party. I am actually getting along very well with the people at RNC right now. And I think that would be something certainly we would be discussing. I do agree with -- I mean, Ronald Reagan was a long time ago. He was somebody that liked me a lot. I liked him a lot. I helped him a little bit. And he had the exceptions also. It would certainly be something I would want to discuss with the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Do you find when talking to him -- I mean, obviously, it's always hard to pin him down on specifics. We've had had this experience.
Is he developing more of his policies? I mean, those who support him will say, look, he is not a professional politician. This is the first time he's entering the ring. You've got to give him some time. Does it seem like he is sort of figuring out his positions.
BASH: Yes, and in some ways, maybe figuring it out as he goes along.
For example, I asked about immigration and specifically about the dreamers. You know, the kids who come here illegally through no fault of their own. What would they do?
And it was like, he was kind of pondering it out loud. Saying, you know, I thought a lot about this. And I want to be humane. And he said, I'm just not really sure what to do about it yet.
So in some cases like in that case it is refreshing. He doesn't come up with a canned answer. But in other cases like abortion, where he has done such a 180, in his own personal position, he says. He is going to have a lot of explaining to do. And he's not -- I don't think that he's fully formed on that. And the fact that he says you might want to bring up putting exceptions in the party platform if he is the Republican nominee, that would be very interesting to mention.
COOPER: You'd certainly -- I mean, you covered politics for years. Is he like any other politician you have interviewed?
BASH: Absolutely not. No, not at all.
COOPER: Which is what his supporters like?
BASH: Which is what is so endearing to a lot of people out there, that fact that he doesn't talk like a politician. Unfortunately for us it is, as you said, sometimes it's hard to pin him down. But luckily we have lots of chances to talk to him.
COOPER: That's right. He is not shy about talking. Dana Bash, thank you very much.
BASH: He is not, which is good.
[20:35:12] COOPER: We want to dig deeper now with our panel.
Joining me, Jeffrey Lord, former Reagan White House political director and a contributing editor for "American Spectator." Also, Dan Pfeiffer, CNN political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama, and CNN senior political reporter, Nia Malika Henderson.
Jeffrey, first of all, this whole issue of what Donald Trump said to his lawyer and the deposition, what was it, do you think this matter at all. I mean, it's the kind of thing that gets brought up in presidential race. As Dana said, when you don't have somebody's political record, you know, these things are going to pop up. You look at their legal record. And this person made some allegations. My sense is this doesn't really play that. This doesn't beyond today go anywhere. What is your sense?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right. Right. Anderson, I think you are 100 percent right. I would just say in terms of the debate, you know, his audience here which would be-- the Republican base, they look at things like this and they remember that when Mitt Romney was running, suddenly, you know, there was this incident from 50 years ago when he was a boy, was supposed to have forcibly cut some kids' hair off with a bunch of guys, and the guy later turned out to be gay. So he was now transformed into a gay basher.
Senator McCain according to "The New York Times" was supposedly having an affair with a lobbyist. This was after he was nominated, they said this. If you go on back all the way to, George W. Bush's DUI right before the election. And I dug one out, Anderson, that from 1964, and I'll read the part sentence to it.
There was a -- a poll of psychiatrists, 1,189 psychiatrists said that they thought Barry Goldwater was not psychologically fit. And this was in "The New York Times." And they compared Goldwater with Hitler and Stalin, described him as paranoid, megalomaniac, unstable, dangerous and a mass murderer at heart.
LORD: A breast pump is apart from that, but you see what I'm saying.
COOPER: Right. (INAUDIBLE) a psychiatrist on television now who says those exact, same things about a lot of democrats. So that's nothing new. And these things are said about all candidates.
LORD: I'm just saying the way the base responds. COOPER: Right. I agree with you. And I mean, I have talked to a number of Trump supporters. Just regular folks out there today who are saying, look, this says more about the media than it says about Donald Trump.
Dan, I mean, you heard Trump talking about his position on -- that he used to be pro-choice.
Do you think that is something that his opponents are going to start to now try to use against him? The idea that he is a flip-flopper. You know, at one point he was registered Republican. He was independent. He was unaffiliated. He was Democrat for eight years, now he says he's a conservative Republican.
DAN PFEIFFER, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA: Well, I think to date all of his opponents are just hoping he's going to go away. But it doesn't seem like that is going to be the case. Eventually, he's got, you know, he's doubled up the lead in New Hampshire. He is in the race in Iowa. Eventually, whether it's Jeb Bush or Scott Walker, or Marco Rubio, they're going to have to make a case against him.
And this is fertile territory. The problem for everyone is that Trump has found an amazing way to take everything that would hurt another politician that makes him stronger. Either the media is attacking him or the Republican establishment is attacking him that fires the supporters up more.
And so, you know, he is -- I mean, he is not a politician. But he was pretty deft in that interview with Dana today. I mean, he's very impressive. He is getting much better at this.
COOPER: Well, also, Mia, it is interesting because, you know, when you talk to -- to supporters of his. The fact that he doesn't have clear positions on what do you do with the 11 million undocumented immigrants who are already in this country or however many it is. He says the numbers could be as high as 34 million according to Trump.
But that it doesn't seem to bother the people who like him. In fact, they kind of give him a pass on it because they say, look, he is a big picture guy and, and, you know, he'll develop policies. He'll hire really smart people. But as long, he's got a vision.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. And he's got, you know, billions of dollars to back up that vision in buildings all over the place and all sorts of successful real estate deals that he talks about endlessly. And that's their proof that he would make a good president.
Their argument, eventually, he will do to America what he has done for his own brand. That he could make America great again. I mean, these are sort of tea party folks. I mean, he's sort of the perfect tea party presidential candidate. We hadn't really seen that before.
Herman Cain was a little bit of that in 2012. But because he has got the funding, I think he will certainly go much further than Herman Cain and because he has got that brand. He is such a well-known figure, but he is tapping into I think a lot of the kind of resentment of people in the tea party.
These are white, working-class Americans who feel left behind, who feel left out obviously from where the country is now and certainly left out as well from Republican Party leadership. And that's why I think as Dan said, everything falls to Donald Trump's favor.
When the RNC attacks him, that's good for him. Of course, I think, in this interview, you do hear a sort of kinder, gentler Trump in some ways. And that's one of the things that I think is going to be interesting to see him, kind of change his tone.
[20:40:15] COOPER: Jeffrey, in terms of the debate coming up next week. If you are advising other candidates, do you think they would go after Trump? Because every time they mention him, by debate rules, I mean, I assume these are debate rules, then Donald Trump would get time to respond. And given how many candidates there on the stage, it could, you know, if they're all attacking Trump, he is going to get far more time than anybody else to respond to what they're saying?
LORD: Yes, I think they would be smartest to just say what they are for. If they spend their time whacking Donald Trump, all that's going to do, I mean, I think these incidents have now proven, beyond doubt, that, these incidents pop up and he surges in the polls. The last thing they want to be seen as is being in a, sort of a group gangbang of Donald Trump on stage. I think it is a mistake. And they all have stories to tell and they should do that.
COOPER: Dan, do you agree with that?
PFEIFFER: Well, I think that is probably true for the quasi frontrunners like Scott Walker and Jeb Bush. But you have Chris Christie and Rick Perry, and these people are on the cusp of falling out of the next debate who would want to get attention.
So it may not be in Bush's interest or Walker's interest to go after Trump, but it certainly maybe in Rick Perry's interest because he needs to get attention. He needs to be part of the conversation. So if he gets another point or two in the polls, he can lock his position in for the next debate. If he doesn't, he falls out and you know that's a huge missed opportunity for him. I think you will see some people go after Bush because it is good for them.
COOPER: If Rick Perry brings a chin-up bar to the debate, then he'll challenge Trump to pull-ups.
Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks for being with us. Jeffrey Lord, Dan Pfeiffer, always great to have you all with us.
Up next, new details and growing outrage over the killing of a beloved African lion. The American dentist who paid big money to kill the big cat is apparently now in hiding. The hunt for him actually now intensifies. And possible legal charges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Over the last 24 hours, outrage over the death of one of Africa's most beloved lion has only grown more intense. Cecil, a 13- year-old male who live on a protected national park in Zimbabwe was a popular tourist attraction and beloved animal that inspired all. He was also a valued research subject, part of a long-term study. His loss say scientists can't actually be measured at this point. But as we reported last night his killing for sport most definitely had a price tag.
An American dentist reportedly paid $50,000 for the hunting trip that ended this lion's life. A killing that authorities in Zimbabwe say was illegal. Tonight, the tables have turned on the dentist. He is now the one in a sense being hunted.
Ryan Young has the latest.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Where is Dr. Walter J. Palmer?
GOV. MARK DAYTON, MINNESOTA: I'm just so disgusted with that man. To shoot any lion but to lure a lion like that out of the preserve and shoot him, I mean, how could anybody think that's sport? Just appalling.
YOUNG: CNN tried to find him at his Minneapolis home, but no one answered the door. In fact, he has gone underground after releasing the statement, which read in part, quote, "I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Preserves are meant to preserve wildlife not to just lure them off and poach them.
YOUNG: Now Dr. Palmer, a wealthy dentist from Minneapolis find himself under a torrent of criticism after a conservation group alleged that Dr. Palmer and his guide lured Cecil out of the park sanctuary and shot it with a bow and arrow then pursuing the animal another 40 hours before killing, skinning and beheading him. All for a trophy kill. Zimbabwe authorities say Palmer paid at least $50,000 for the hunt.
EMMANUEL FUNDIRA, SAFARI OPERATORS ASSOCIATION OF ZIMBABWE: We lost one of the icons, a male lion which was popularly known and endeared as Cecil.
YOUNG: And now the dentist with a practice and a home in this upscale neighborhood finds himself being hunted as questions remain of whether he will face charges in Zimbabwe.
Today protesters took to the streets in front of his Minnesota office which has since been shuttered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He can apologize until the cows come home. But for us it is more about we are here for Cecil. We're not here for Dr. Palmer.
YOUNG: But this isn't the first time Dr. Palmer's big game hunting hobby has got him in trouble. Court documents show that an individual the same age as the dentist was put on probation years earlier for killing a black bear in Wisconsin and then lying to U.S. Fish and Wildlife services about it. He pleaded guilty. He got probation and paid a $3000 fine.
And in Zimbabwe, the conservation officials say that the hunters tried to destroy the research tracking collar Cecil wore. These two men seen here has since been arrested for the slaying. A professional hunter and landowner released on $1,000 bail, both facing upwards of ten years in jail. Their attorney says they are innocent. Dr. Palmer says he relied on their expertise as guides to, quote, "Ensure a legal hunt."
LANCELOT SIBANDA, ZIMBABWE RESIDENT: It is about the image of Africa. And it shouldn't be condoned. And I think action should be taken for that.
YOUNG: But back state side, questions still remain of what is to become of Dr. Palmer? With many on social media mourning the lion's demise. Steadily coming to a boil of anger and outrage.
Even late night show host Jimmy Kimmel responded at one point, choking up.
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE: If you want to do something, if you want to make this into a, a positive, you could, I'm sorry -- OK, I'm good. Make a donation to support them. At the very least, maybe we can show the world that not all Americans are like this jackhole here, this dentist.
COOPER: So, I understand Ryan that Dr. Palmer released a statement today to his patients. What do we know that he said?
YOUNG: Well, this afternoon, we got from one of our affiliates, WCCL, part of that letter. And of course it states to all his patients that he is sorry for the inconvenience. And if you look behind me, this place is shutdown. A lot of folks had been putting things on the front window. But he says he thought he was doing a legal hunt and he regrets shooting this lion.
But I can tell you, by standing out here, there's a lot of passion involved in this. We saw hundreds of people gathered just this afternoon to protest. One woman even saying she doesn't believe he can even practice here ever again. Of course, we will have to wait and see what happens. We tried to reach him, but of course, he did not answer his door.
[20:50:13] COOPER: All right, Ryan. Appreciate it.
Up next, a prosecutor shares his utter disgust over the death of an unarmed black man by a white police officer during a traffic stop calling it senseless and asinine. The incident was caught on camera. We'll show it to you and hear what the officer's attorney is now saying when we continue.
COOPER: University of Cincinnati police officer who is white has turned himself in after a grand jury indicted him on murder charges for the shooting death of an unarmed man who was black last week.
The prosecutor is disgusted by the actions of the officer calling his account of the traffic stop nonsense and even says that what he did was, quote, "asinine." The incident was caught on the officer's body camera and we warn you, it is difficult to watch but it is crucial to the story.
CNN's Miguel Marquez reports.
RAYMOND TENSING, POLICE OFFICER: Hey, how's it going man?
SAMUEL DUBOSE, VICTIM: Hey, how's it going?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The conversation captured on body camera between University of Cincinnati police officer Raymond Tensing, and motorist Samuel DuBose starts normally enough, but quickly turns into a deadly confrontation.
TENSING: OK. Well, until I can figure out if you have a license or not, go ahead and take your seat belt off for me.
DUBOSE: Man why you --
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me. Stop. Stop.
MARQUEZ: Frame by frame, you see the police officer reach for Dubose's door. He asked Dubose, who is driving on a suspended license to remove his seatbelt. Dubose starts the car. It begins to move. The officer's gun comes out. He shouts, stop, stop, then the gunshot. The car speeds up. The officer is on the ground. The gun in front of the camera.
[19:55:12] AUDREY DUBOSE, MOTHER OF SAMUEL DUBOSE: If my son is right and he gets killed, somebody had to be wicked here. I thought the person should have been locked up day one.
MARQUEZ: In the video it is hard to hear the gunshot. This is the video slowed about 20 percent, you can hear the car engine, the officer shout twice and then that single fatal shot.
Samuel DuBose was struck in the head and died almost instantaneously. He slumped forward, hitting the gas as he died. The car came to a stop after jumping the sidewalk at the end of the block. Officer Raymond Tensing has now been charged with murder and voluntary manslaughter. JOE DETERS, HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR: This is the most asinine act I have ever seen a police officer make. Totally unwarranted. It is incredible. And so senseless. And again, I feel so sorry for his family. And I feel sorry for the community. I -- this should not happen ever.
MARQUEZ: In the police report filed the day after the incident, Officer Tensing told the investigator he was almost run over by the driver of the Honda Accord and was forced to shoot the driver. A statement hard to reconcile with the video.
MARK O'MARA, DUBOSE FAMILY LAWYER: You can't look at the video and say that that police report follows the video. It doesn't. It contradicts it. If there wasn't a video available, I do not believe he would have had an indictment.
COOPER: And Miguel joins us now. I mean, that he would make this statement, claiming what happened knowing that he had a body camera on doesn't make any sense to me. Is it possible more charges could be filed?
MARQUEZ: It doesn't make any sense. And those charges may come, prosecutor looking from the own words of the police officers, two other officers were there with him that day. One of them saying that he witnessed the Honda Accord almost run over him or drag him. The other officers saying that the injuries he saw were consistent with dragging. So the DA now looking to see as to whether or not they falsified that police report.
COOPER: That's incredible. Miguel, thank you very much. We'll, obviously -- we'll have more on that. It is 7 feet long, I should say, and 4 feet wide. It was hauled from the Indian Ocean, thousand of miles from the search area for MH-370. How this hunk of debris may help solve the mystery of Malaysian Airlines flight 370 -- next.