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Bernie Sanders Surging; Interview With California Congressman Ed Royce; Donald Trump Attacks Hillary Clinton; Interview with John Kasich. Aired 18-19:00p ET

Aired August 12, 2015 - 18:00   ET



BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Striking ISIS. America launches a new air offensive against the terrorists, and a top general says the U.S. may soon need to consider sending in ground troops. Is President Obama listening?

And armed or framed? After new violence in Ferguson, Missouri, police say a surveillance video proves a shooting suspect had a gun. But the teenager's family and some witnesses say it isn't him.

We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off. I'm Brianna Keilar. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: Breaking news tonight. Donald Trump is hammering Hillary Clinton over her use of private e-mail while she was secretary of state. He spoke to CNN a short while ago, only hours after Clinton revealed she is turning over her e-mail server to the Justice Department. Trump says he thinks something criminal may have been going on, which her campaign says is not true.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know frankly that she will be able to run, because it just looks to me that the whole e-mail thing is a very criminal situation, and it could cause problems for years to come.


KEILAR: CNN just released exclusive new polling.

It shows Trump and Clinton are their parties' clear front-runners in Iowa, despite controversies hanging over candidates. We have correspondents, analysts, and newsmakers standing by as we cover all of the news that is breaking now.

First, I want to go to our global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, with more on this Clinton e-mail investigation -- Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, the Clinton camp pushing back hard against assertions like Trump's that Clinton did anything criminal, sending a message to supporters trying to clear up what they call misinformation and asking them to set the record straight.

They say Clinton turned over her server willingly, but it is something she initially resisted.


LABOTT (voice-over): Answering Justice Department concerns about the security of her private e-mail server, Hillary Clinton is now turning it over, along with a thumb drive of work-related e-mails. Her spokesman says the former secretary of state -- quote -- "pledged to cooperate with the government's security inquiry and will answer any remaining questions."

In March, a defiant Clinton refused to surrender the server to a House panel investigating the Benghazi attack.

CLINTON: The server contains personal communications from my husband and me, and I believe I have met all of my responsibilities, and the server will remain private.

LABOTT: Today, the Republican chair of that committee was unimpressed.

REP. TREY GOWDY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: About damned time was my initial reaction. We asked her in March to turn that server over to a neutral, detached, independent arbiter.

LABOTT: This amid new disclosures from the intelligence community. Two of Clinton's e-mails contained top secret information, the highest classification, but the info was never marked classified by the State Department, and Clinton may not have known it should have remained on a secure server.

She has long said she handled all information properly while using her private account.

CLINTON: I did not e-mail any classified material to anyone on my e-mail. There's no classified material.

LABOTT: Clinton told CNN last month the controversy would not damage her presidential campaign.

CLINTON: I trust the American voter 100 percent, because I think, you know, the American voter will weigh these kinds of accusations.

LABOTT: But as the e-mail probe expands to her former State Department staff, a new Monmouth University poll finds that more than half of registered voters think Clinton's e-mails should be subject to a criminal investigation; 38 percent thinks she has something to hide.

An opportunity for Republican contenders to excite their base. JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a national security

consideration that if classified information was going over a private server against the rules of the Obama administration and against common sense, I mean, come on, man.


LABOTT: Now, Clinton has the said she wiped the server clean. But that does not mean there isn't recoverable information on the server. That's what the Justice Department wants to determine, as well as what kind of system it was and whether there was any indication it was improperly secured -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Elise, thanks for the report.

I want to bring in CNN justice reporter Evan Perez now.

What are you learning about how the Justice Department is going to handle this, Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, what we know already, in referring to what Elise just said, we know already the FBI knows that the way the e-mails were being housed was improper.

If you have classified information, if you have top secret information, then a private server is no place for that to be, especially if you have top secret information. There's some specific rules as to where this stuff is supposed to be. It wasn't. So we know already there already was something improper done. Now, the question is what are they going to find?


What we know is that they're going to look to see who sent these e-mails. Who received them? Who else was part of the server? I believe the campaign has said that a couple of other people, including Cheryl Mills, were on the server, but we don't know who else might be on there.


KEILAR: Actually, I will say, I believe Cheryl Mills was not on the server is my understanding. I believe one of her other top aides, Huma Abedin.


PEREZ: Right. And those are the questions that the FBI is going to look to answer now.

KEILAR: When you say it is improper that it's on a private server, that makes sense to a lot of people. Clear this up for us. You have the campaign saying at the time things were not classified.

PEREZ: Right. KEILAR: If things are classified later, then, explain that to us

because I think it's puzzling to so many people. They're saying, was it classified? Well, it wasn't at the time. Is it still improper if it wasn't technically classified at the time?

PEREZ: Now that they know that there was classified information on there, they have to go and retrieve the server. That's what's improper about that. You cannot have this information sitting there in the hands of a lawyer who perhaps is not cleared to possess it.

KEILAR: Or tech people, right, who are accessing the server.


PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

What now is happening that they're securing the servers and the thumb drives to make sure that it is being properly secured. Now, the question is, as you're raising, is, did she know that the information she was receiving was classified at the time? As far as we know and as far as what the campaign is saying, there was no indication, there was nothing that said top secret or classified at the top of it.

And so now the question is you know what does this really mean? Is this really a criminal issue? Is this something that is an investigative issue for the FBI? It's going to take months for them to look at this. So, this is something that is going to hang over this campaign for months and months and months.

KEILAR: And it's an issue she wouldn't have if there wasn't this private server that had been used?

PEREZ: Right.

LABOTT: That's right. And while Clinton may not be the target of any criminal probe, there might have been someone else that saw some information on a classified system and talked to her. This might not necessarily only include Clinton. It may -- when they find out who sent these e-mails, there could be other people that could be subject to a criminal investigation.

We see that the scope is really expanding not only to Clinton, but to the staff.

KEILAR: Those around her. Those around her. All right, Elise, Evan, thanks so much, guys.

Also breaking, the Pentagon says, manned U.S. warplanes are launching new strikes against ISIS. They are flying for the first time out of an air base in Turkey. The Turkish government recently agreed to open its bases to the U.S.-led coalition in its battle against the terrorists.

Tonight, a top U.S. general is speaking out about another option against ISIS. And that is ground troops.

Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has details.

And this is raising some eyebrows, Barbara.


General Ray Odierno is the chief of the U.S. Army, the number one general in the Army. He's actually about to retire in the next few days. He met with reporters here at the Pentagon and he got very candid about the fight against ISIS.


STARR (voice-over): U.S. airstrikes over Syria trying to squeeze critical ISIS strongholds, in the west, ramping up pressure near Aleppo and Idlib, in the east, striking Raqqa, ISIS' capital.

In Iraq, U.S. officials say Iraqi troops may finally be getting ready to try to retake Ramadi.


STARR: But the top U.S. Army general did not mince word about any part of the effort, on getting Iraqi forces to fight.

ODIERNO: It hasn't gone as well as we would look it to.

STARR: On the overall situation?

ODIERNO: I think right now, we are kind of at a stalemate.

STARR: And a warning, the president's strategy, especially in Iraq, may need fixing, raising the option of putting U.S. boots on the ground.

ODIERNO: If we find in the next several months that we are not making the progress that we have, we should probably absolutely consider embedding some soldiers.

STARR: As for U.S. training of Syrian rebels, a program now in crisis since the first unit disbanded before it could fight in the field?

ODIERNO: I think we have to -- we have learned some lessons from that and figure out how we can best can employ them to ensure their survivability and their viability in the region.

STARR: But a caution about some suggestions from a top GOP presidential candidate.

TRUMP: I would go in and take the oil and I would put troops to protect the oil. I would absolutely go in. I would take the money source away. And believe me, they would start to wither and they would collapse.

STARR (on camera): When you hear Donald Trump say, we should just move in with our troops and take their oil, and bomb the Iraqi oil fields and take the oil away from ISIS, does anything like that even remotely have military utility?

ODIERNO: See, there's limits to military power. And so we can have an outcome. But, again, see, the problem we have had over the last -- do we achieve sustainable outcome? It's about sustainable outcome.


STARR: So, you disagree with Donald Trump?

ODIERNO: I do. I do. I do. Right now, I do.


STARR: Now, General Odierno did go on to say he had one caveat.

If ISIS posed a direct threat to the United States, in terms of there was some sort of imminent attack and that intelligence was presented, then he might agree with the notion of taking very strong military action -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

And joining me now is the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Congressman Ed Royce.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

You heard General Odierno there. He says that troops should be on the ground in Iraq in the next several months if progress isn't made. Do you agree with that?

REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think the pity here, Brianna, is that we didn't use U.S. airpower to defeat ISIS from the air; 14 major cities in Syria and then Iraq, they took those cities.

And at any time during that year, we could have, we could have hit them when they were on the road and visible. And so now the question is, having not done that, and having not allowed the Kurds, 180,000 Kurdish soldiers, not allowed them to be armed with artillery, or anti-tank weapons or mortars, we're in a situation now where the officer corps is saying, well, what do we do next?

I'm not sure how much that would even help in terms of forward observers, because I'm told that the consequence of these decisions going through Washington, D.C., are such that our pilots have to wait to get an answer back before they can drop their ordnance. Let's say he is talking for a minute about forward deploying some spotters, special ops.

I take it that's what he means. I don't think he means brigades on the ground there. I think he means spotters. A situation like that would still depend upon an agreement out of this administration that they're going to allow the field commanders to make these decisions in real time.

KEILAR: But what about Syria? So, obviously, you want there to be, I would say -- you feel they're playing telephone, basically, when it comes down to being -- if we're talking about someone being forward and essentially scouting out the scene for air support.

ROYCE: The Canadians do that, by the way. That's right.

KEILAR: Sure. If you took out that game of telephone, I guess, do you think that would be the best route in Iraq and in Syria to have troops there?

ROYCE: I actually think the best route is to arm the Kurdish soldiers; 30 percent of those battalions are women. And yet they're fighting with small arms against ISIS that is using heavy weaponry.

And because of opposition from Baghdad and especially from the Iranians, the Shia, because of that opposition, this administration continues to refuse to arm a force that can do the fighting on the ground, and, frankly, if you get the Kurds properly armed, they could be doing some of the spotting.

So my frustration has been all along for the last -- for the first year of this campaign against ISIS, the administration wouldn't even allow airpower to be used against them from the air. I think we have sat back and watched the administration allow this to become a crisis. And I don't understand to this day why we don't arm the Kurds.

Look, I know the resistance that is going to come, the arguments from Baghdad and maybe from Turkey. But this is a crisis situation. And you have got soldiers that want to do the fighting why. Why not let them do that fighting on the front lines?

KEILAR: So, whatever General Odierno may be recommending here to the White House would obviously, I would imagine, if past is prologue, be met with some resistance as well, this idea of boots on the ground, even as he describes embedding soldiers without having them fight.


Brianna, Let me clarify


KEILAR: But you doubt the utility in what he is saying?

ROYCE: Well, I am raising the question, will the administration finally allow the field commanders to make these decisions in real time?

If they will, then having forward observers call in airstrikes, that makes sense. I don't think he is -- I don't think General Odierno is speaking right now about sending in U.S. brigades, because I don't think there is support for that. But in terms of having forward observers hit a target, that still presupposes that they're going to be given the authority to do that without running that through the lawyers in Washington or through basically the White House.

And the problem so far, as I perceive it, and the feedback that we get, is that those decisions can't be made on the ground. This thing is being micromanaged out of Washington, D.C., and not micromanaged well on any level.

KEILAR: All right, Chairman Royce, stay with me. I have more questions for you out of the next break.


U.S. F-16s flying out of Turkey now, bombing ISIS targets, we will be discussing that in just a moment.



KEILAR: We're back now with the House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman, Ed Royce.

Following some breaking news, the U.S. beginning launching manned airstrikes against ISIS from an air base in Turkey.

These are F-16s, Congressman, that are operating out of Incirlik Air Base. Do you suspect that, as they target Syria, ISIS in Syria, that we are going to see ISIS retaliate against the West in response?

ROYCE: You know, I don't think there is anything that we could do one way or another in terms of striking ISIS that would deter their efforts to attack the West. That is something they have done on a full-time basis.

And, in fact, if we were to degrade ISIS or defeat ISIS, it would make it less likely, Brianna, that they would recruit around the world. The reason right now they are successful is because they're on the march, they're viewed as winning. If they're viewed as losing, it makes it less likely that they can attract agents to carry out attacks on the West.

KEILAR: As Congress reviews the Iran deal that the U.S. and other nations have struck with Iran on its nuclear program, stopping it -- with the aim to stop it from getting a nuclear weapon, you have the head of the Iranian Quds Force traveling to Russia, in violation of sanctions. What should the U.S. do in response?

ROYCE: Clearly, this is a violation. Now, apparently, part of this deal will lift the sanctions on Suleimani.

But in the meantime, 10 days after the deal is done and before full implementation, he is out there meeting with Putin and with the secretary of defense for Russia, obviously, in my view, talking about weapons transfers. Let me tell you what I think should happen. We should call Iran

on this right now and call the Russians on it. I wrote a letter to the president about this, because this individual, Suleimani, is responsible for the death of approximately 500 Americans. He is responsible for leading attacks by Hezbollah into Israel.

He is also responsible for Quds Forces operations that overthrew an ally of ours in Yemen and is in operation right now in Syria and Iraq. So, what I am telling you is, he is the chief commander for Iranian foreign forces outside of Iran who carry out their assassinations and carry out their attacks.

And the fact that he would violate the sanctions prior to it being lifted upon him by jumping the gun, this gives us an opportunity to call the Russians to account and the Iranians into account for already violating this agreement. And we should do so.

KEILAR: Chairman Ed Royce, thanks so much for talking with us. We really appreciate it.

ROYCE: Thank you very much, Brianna.

KEILAR: And we have some more breaking news next.

New CNN poll numbers, these are big numbers. They're from the key state of Iowa. They reveal some of the reasons why Donald Trump is so popular with Republican voters there.

Plus, new developments in Ferguson, Missouri, where a state of emergency has now been extended.



KEILAR: Tonight, the Donald Trump juggernaut is gaining steam in the first 2016 battleground state.

Our exclusive new CNN/ORC poll shows Trump not only has a significant lead in Iowa. He's ranked as the GOP candidate who has the best chance to win. And that is a big deal.

Tonight, one U.S. senator is comparing Trump's popularity to the surprising surge of Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders, saying that both can be attributed to America's cynicism about Washington.

Our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, has more on the 2016 race and the Trump and Sanders phenomena -- Jeff.


Clinton has a commanding lead of 19 points over Sanders in Iowa. But that's not the case in New Hampshire. He is leading there and is emerging as a potential spoiler. It's turning out to be an upside- down summer on the campaign trail. We have seen front-runners fade and unexpected challengers soar. Now, it's a long road until those first votes are cast. But for

now at least, the establishment candidates are having a bumpy ride.


ZELENY (voice-over): A soaring summer for Bernie Sanders. He is front-page news today, vaulting over Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire. His populist cry is catching on.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a message to the billionaire class. And that message is, you can't have it all.

ZELENY: And his candidacy is taking off.

For the first time, a new Franklin Pierce University poll shows him with a seven-point edge over Clinton, all this as Clinton faces new questions about the private e-mail server she used as secretary of state. She has agreed to surrender it to the Justice Department.

It has given Sanders an opening to be a potential spoiler of the 2016 campaign. And he is not alone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President of the United States Donald J. Trump!

ZELENY: Republicans have one of their own. In Iowa, Donald Trump is leading the pack, our new CNN poll shows, with Ben Carson in second place. These spoilers are upending the race, sending establishment stars like Clinton and Jeb Bush to the back burner, at least for now.

TRUMP: Jeb and Hillary, on the same day, they said Donald Trump has too strong a tone. The world is cracking up, and they're worried about my tone.

ZELENY: But instead of taking on Trump, Bush turned his attacks to Clinton last night in a speech on Iraq in the Reagan Library in California.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Where was Secretary of State Clinton in all of this? Like the president himself, she had opposed the surge, then joined in claiming credit for its success.

ZELENY: Instead of challenging Sanders, Clinton is fixated on Bush and the GOP field.

HILLARY CLINTON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to draw a contrast with the candidates on the other side of the aisle.

ZELENY: While Trump is used to the spotlight, it's a new phenomenon for Sanders, the 73-year-old Vermont senator who proudly calls himself a Democratic socialist. His rallies, drawing more than 100,000 people in recent weeks, are the biggest of any 2016 candidate.

(on camera): Are they underestimating Bernie Sanders? SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People often

have underestimated me. I'm in this race, and we're ready to win.


ZELENY: Now Bernie Sanders is smiling a lot these days. He's drawing some of the biggest crowds we've seen in years. But it's important to remember, it's not a national campaign just yet. It starts in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada.

So Sanders, Trump and other surging candidates must build an organization to sustain them into next winter, when those voters finally start having their say -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Can they translate into votes? That's the big question.

Jeff, stay with me as I bring in CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein. He is also the editorial director for "The National Journal." And also with us, CNN chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash, and CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.

So Ron, you see how well Donald Trump is doing here in the polls. Second poll in two days, showing him ahead in Iowa. But there's this thing. It's a gender gap that we're seeing. Does that portend a bigger problem for him?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, this is a good poll overall for Donald Trump, because not only is he ahead, but he is scoring well on issues and on personal characteristics such as bringing change to Washington. So it's good overall.

A gender gap is more survivable in a Republican primary than a Democratic primary because of the overall gender gap. About 60 percent of the voters in the Democratic primary will likely be women, whereas in a Republican primarily, it's more evenly divided, about 50/50. In Iowa, in fact, most of the voters in the Iowa Republican caucus will probably be men. So I think Donald Trump can survive that. It's something we've seen for a while.

I would underscore one point that Jeff made in his piece. If you look at this poll, the fact that Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina are also doing well is a reminder of two things. One, things can change very quickly at this point in the race. But second, there is undeniably a strain in the Republican Party that is looking beyond traditional politicians.

When you see Fiorina and Carson well ahead of Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, for example, that tells you something about what the temper of the Republican primary electorate is, at least at this early point in the cycle.

KEILAR: As you eye the Democratic field, what's behind the Sanders surge? I've heard some people joke maybe, you know, voters in New Hampshire are just sort of having a fling with Bernie Sanders, but ultimately, they're going to settle down with Hillary Clinton. What do you say to that? BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, historically, New Hampshire and Iowa,

both states but particularly New Hampshire, have been the best terrain for these kind of insurgent, liberal -- socially liberal candidates like Bernie Sanders, who draw their support mostly from white liberals.

I mean, Hillary Clinton is overwhelmingly ahead in all the polls among minority voters and -- in the Democratic primary. And once gets past Iowa and New Hampshire, which is virtually all white, those advantages will come into play.

But if you look back through Democratic history, from Gene McCarthy, to Gary Hart in 1984, to Bill Bradley in 2000, New Hampshire is often very promising terrain for these kinds of candidates. And Hillary Clinton will probably face a challenge all the way through in New Hampshire from Bernie Sanders. If he can't get over the top there, it's likely to deflate quickly. Even if he does, he faces this other challenge of minority voters. But she cannot dismiss the challenge in New Hampshire at any point.

KEILAR: And in Iowa, Nia, good news for Hillary Clinton. She's still well ahead of Bernie Sanders: 50 percent to 31 percent over him. She's doing especially well among women: 58 percent to 26 percent over Sanders. And that's crucial for her, not just in Iowa but in states beyond.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is. In states beyond and in the general election. Women are going to be the most important demographic for Hillary Clinton. And that's why you've seen her over these last days hit back at Jeb Bush over his comments on Planned Parenthood. She attacked Donald Trump for his comments about Megyn Kelly; talked about Marco Rubio's stance on abortion. So this is where she thinks she can grow.

If you look back at, particularly among white, white-collar women, professional women, which is also why on Monday she talked about college affordability, that resonates with that group. Obama got about 46 percent of professional white women. If she grows above that, as well as getting African-American women and Asian women and Latino women, it really puts her in a good place, not only in the primary but also in the general, should she win.

KEILAR: Someone who's seen some good news in the poll is Ohio Governor John Kasich. I know, Dana, you just interviewed him. He talked about Hillary Clinton. What did he say to you?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. You know, I had just seen that Rand Paul, one of his Republican competitors, had -- had been talking about her. Other people obviously have been talking about her. Mike Huckabee, they were all quick to put out statements slamming Hillary Clinton for the fact that she had to -- not only, that she had to give over her private server to the feds, but that she apparently had some classified information on there.

He didn't go there. And it really, I think, speaks to the kind of sentiment that Ron was talking about, that he kind of gets. Which is people don't necessarily want to hear from regular old politicians slamming other politicians anymore. They want to hear about what the candidates are going to do for them. And that is very much where John Kasich is focused, whether it's Donald Trump or anybody else.

He simply said on Hillary Clinton, Bri, that -- you know, he said, you know, "I bet she's regretting every day that she even put that server in her house and probably waking up, wanting to yell at anybody who didn't convince her not to do that in the first place."

KEILAR: Yes. He might be right about that.

Jeff, Hillary Clinton is -- has been targeted by Jeb Bush today. He gave a big speech on foreign policy, and he criticized her -- or last night. He criticized her and President Obama's policies when it comes to Iraq. And then it's interesting, because on the flip side, you'll hear her supporters hitting back on Jeb Bush, and obviously, Jeb Bush being hit by Donald Trump, as well, when it comes to Iraq. Do voters really want to re-litigate the Iraq War?

ZELENY: Well, some do. Some believe it was a -- you know, a big mistake. So it's one of Jeb Bush's big challenges sort of -- and we've seen him sort of struggle with, you know, trying to differentiate himself from his brother.

I was a little bit surprised that Jeb Bush used that issue specifically to draw, because it also drew attention to sort of one of his shortcomings, or at least challenges, in showing the public that he's not like his brother.

But I think what's been happening recently is interesting. You have Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton going at each other, actually, pretty significantly on Twitter, in speeches. Never mind the fact that they're both ignoring Donald Trump, basically. So they would love to preview the general election campaign. Both campaigns, if you really press them, they believe they'll be running against the other in the general election campaign.


ZELENY: But boy, a long time between now and there, particularly for Jeb Bush, who has a very, very, very crowded field.

But today Jeb Bush took it one step further in Nevada. He compared Hillary Clinton to Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning...

KEILAR: Right.

ZELENY: ... and said that -- he used that in the same sentence, saying that her e-mail server is that serious. We haven't heard him be quite that extreme before.

KEILAR: I do want to turn now. Ron, we learned today that former president Jimmy Carter has cancer. He put out a short statement. We don't know a lot of the details. But he's really had a vibrant career post-presidency. And I think now he's turning to concentrate, obviously, on his health. That really comes into a lot of relief as you think about what he has done over decades since he was in the White House.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Absolutely. You know, the context of the conversation we're having today, the last time the presidential field was this crowded was 1976 when Jimmy Carter was nominated. And he really kind of cut the mold for the kind of nonpolitician candidate, even though he was -- had been the governor of Georgia. His appeal was that he was not a typical politician. He carried his own, you know, luggage. And he kind of changed that. Had enormous difficulty as president, both in the economy and foreign affairs.

But since he left office, has really redefined the post- presidential role. And kind of, again, cut the mold that others have followed with his very activist post-presidency, really a unique figure in American political life.

KEILAR: Certainly is, Jeff. Right? I mean, especially when you think about his contributions, in a way, even to the Iowa caucuses, right?

ZELENY: No doubt. I mean, Ron is absolutely right. Such a crowded field. And no one expected this, this peanut farmer, this man from Georgia. He had been the governor, you're right, but to come through the Iowa caucuses back in 1975 and '76. That's when you really could campaign living room to living room. Of course, it's all changed now. But the Iowa caucuses live on because of him.

His autobiography is called "A Full Life," and he certainly has had a full life. And we certainly wish him the best with his treatment.

KEILAR: Yes, we'll be thinking of him as he's getting that treatment.

Jeff, Nia, Dana, Ron, thanks so much to all of you.

Just ahead, we'll have more of Dana's interview with a rising star in the GOP presidential race. That's Governor John Kasich. How tough is he willing to get when it comes to Donald Trump? Dana will find out.

And what does a surveillance video from Ferguson, Missouri, actually show? Dueling claims about a shooting suspect who was shot by police.


KEILAR: Tonight, one of the big winners from the first Republican presidential debate is speaking out to CNN, specifically to our chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, who's back now with more on her interview with Ohio Governor John Kasich.

What did he tell you, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Brianna, when you are out on the trail with candidates, you can tell instantly whether they are kind of trudging through, making the rounds and meeting and greeting, or whether they really feed off the crowds. John Kasich is loving it.


GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: Never heard of. Because we are not --

BASH (voice-over): John Kasich is rising in New Hampshire polls. His events now more crowded, thanks to a stand-out debate performance.

KASICH: I am having so much fun. So we go into this town hall, and I almost lost my breath.

BASH (on camera): Why?

KASICH: Well, because there's so many people in there. And it's noon -- I was going to say it's a Friday. It's not. It's Wednesday. You lose track of time out here.

BASH (voice-over): Back in time, the 1990s in the House, Kasich helped balance the budget with President Bill Clinton.

(on camera): You like to say --

KASICH: That's a big deal.

BASH: You like to say that's it's the first time that happened since a man walked on the moon.


BASH: So, looking forward --

KASICH: You know why that is a big deal, though? It's a big deal because people don't believe it can happen.

BASH: How do you do that again? And is it really doable?

KASICH: Yes. Well, you do it over time. You don't have to -- have -- do it -- in fact, you wouldn't want to do it, like, in a year because it would be so disruptive. It's not just chopping and cutting. It's innovating, thinking differently, shifting some power back, and economic growth. If you could put a credible plan on the table, you are going to start to get economic growth.

BASH: You talk about the social safety net in a way that a lot of Republicans don't. You sound like a Democrat some times.

KASICH: I tell you something that is really weird about all of this. I balanced more budgets than about anybody walking on the face of the earth. I mean, I'm just kind of kidding. But I have done that.

I've cut taxes in every step of the way. We have the largest tax cuts in Ohio of any sitting governor right now. I am for school choice. We are getting at the problem of higher education costs.

And somehow because I care about people or I care about the environment, that that makes me something other than a conservative. I think -- I think Republicans allowed themselves to be put in a box. Like if I care about people -- like some lady whispered to me when I walked out of the town hall. She say, thanks for caring about people. She's like whispering, like that's -- no! To me, conservatism is giving everybody a chance to be able to be successful.

BASH: Hillary Clinton met here in New Hampshire yesterday with some Black Lives Matter protesters. I don't know if you saw, Bernie Sanders had a disruption in one of his events because of protesters. Martin O'Malley apologized for saying all lives matter.

Do you think that it's appropriate to apologize for that? What's your view on this issue?

KASICH: Well, I have been very involved in Ohio. We have a collaborative effort with community leaders, African-Americans, law enforcement. And they've come up with 23 recommendations --

BASH: An elected official apologized for saying all lives matter --

KASICH: I don't know about that whole issue. I'm just telling you what we're doing. And all lives do matter. Black lives matter especially now because there is a fear in these communities that -- you know, that, the justice isn't working for them.

But it is about balance. And, you know I am not going to get myself caught in, in some sort of a wedge that community has to understand the challenges of police, and the police have to understand the challenges of the community.

They're making a mistake.

BASH (voice-over): As for the Republican frontrunner, Kasich is consistently careful not to slam Donald trump.

(on camera): You thanked Donald Trump for being in the debate because you think he drew 24 million people.



BASH: Who also got a look at you.


BASH: Do you think he is a positive source in the GOP field?

KASICH: I think he is tapping into people's anxieties because I think those anxieties are real. I think people have about had it with frustrations in their lives connected to the government, connected to the loss of jobs. But I don't think people want to stay on the negative side. I

think they want to know what the solutions are. And they're skeptical. You know, when I talk over there, what's going through my mind is are they going to believe me? So that's why I keep telling them to check my record. Because they don't want the same old, same old anymore. They want solutions, and they want to believe that somebody can deliver solutions.

Look, I'm only a -- a guy. Okay? I'm not some magic man. I just do the best I can. But I think I -- I know I have the experience and the record and maybe even some of the personal strength to be able to help this country.


BASH: And, Bri, there are some similarities, at least by reputation, between Donald Trump and John Kasich in that he is known to be sometimes prickly, to sometimes lose his temper a little bit with not just his staff, but maybe even some voters. He actually joked about that me. He said that he's passionate issues. But he also said, quote, "I'm no marshmallow" -- Bri.

KEILAR: I'm no marshmallow, that is quote.

All right. Dana Bash, thanks so much. Great interview.

Just ahead the latest on the situation in Ferguson, Missouri, and the state of emergency that's been in effect since new violence broke out.


[18:54:28] KEILAR: Tonight, Ferguson, Missouri, remains under a stage of emergency, even though a new round of unrest has eased. A top county official says he's extending the emergency order until at least tomorrow as a precaution.

Tonight, we are learning details about where the violence began. Former FBI assistant director and CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes is here with us.

Give us a lay of the land. You have some great pictures and video that show us what happened.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: OK. First of all, this is the storefront, the individual with the gun, believed to be Tyrone Harris here.

[18:55:00] Later, you're going to see shots fired from a vehicle parked over here. There's muzzle flashes behind a white pickup truck. Then, Harris runs across the street to here. This is where he is finally shot by the police.

So, we don't know if the police came in from this way or came down from that way. But they claim that Harris was firing at them. The officers returned fire out of their police car. There's damage to the police car at that time.

We're going to show the video. There's two videos that are synced. So, this is at the same time. We have the black and white video here where you will see the individual on the sidewalk holding the pistol. And then you will see that person here in color, once this individual moves out of the way.

When this video starts, the person in color has white shoes, red pants, white T-shirt, holding a gun, running over towards a vehicle parked next to the white truck.

KEILAR: Let's play that and see. These are two different angles so you can see these at the same time here.

Tell us what we're --

FUENTES: OK. This is believed to be Harris in red pants, white T-shirt, with a gun, running behind this dark colored vehicle.

KEILAR: And over on the other side, we see a person --

FUENTES: And that's -- he has run this way out of that camera view. Now, on this side, you will see -- you see muzzle flashes coming over the top of that vehicle by other people. And it looked like at least two different people were shooting from the other side of the white pickup truck.

So, eventually, we will see muzzle flashes low and another person higher up shooting. We believe that this individual with the red pants has already run out of the scene and across the street as I had mentioned.

KEILAR: And this is Tyrone Harris. He has been shot. He's been --

FUENTES: He has been shot at this time. This is after the encounter with the police, after the police claim that he had shot at their police car, put a bullet into the windshield and other bullets into the front end of the car.

They returned fire. Again, critical was the red pants. Here is a picture of the squad car that was damage.

KEILAR: And so, and this is critical because you see this in this photo and you also see it in the video.

FUENTES: The video you see the white shoes, red pants, white t- shirt carrying the gun.

KEILAR: There's skepticism certainly from his parents about whether or not he was involved. They say it's a case of mistaken identity.

FUENTES: Absolutely. The parents say he doesn't have any guns. His grandmother said, oh, no, he doesn't have guns. You're going to show -- KEILAR: Yes, we actually have a picture of him on Facebook.

FUENTES: We have the Facebook picture of Ty Glock holding up two guns.

KEILAR: I want to bring in Phil Banks. He is a former top official with the New York Police Department.

Phil, we know that a state of emergency has been extended another 24 hours. Why are officials doing this? Why does it -- why do they extend this even though it seems like perhaps the violence eased?

PHIL BANKS, FORMER NYPD OFFICIAL: Well, I would imagine that they feel better to be safe than sorry. Here is a town that has never experienced anything like what they have gone through in the last year. They are probably just erring on the side of caution.

And so, getting back to the comment about the parents, I think that most parents will probably disbelieve, in fact, when they are presented with the fact their child was carrying a weapon. I'm not so sure (INAUDIBLE). It certainly looks like he did.

But in my experience, dealing with parents and confronting them with cold facts, some are in disbelief like I may be if I was presented, if that was my child.

KEILAR: And, Tom, according to local reports, there are two women who have been charged in connection with the highway shutdown we saw earlier this week. One has been charged with a felony for punching a driver who tried to driver who tried to past demonstrators, giving the woman a black eye.

Does news like this bolster the need for an extended state of emergency?

FUENTES: That's a good question. If they think still that people are going to be out and shut down an interstate where they might get run over and you might have road rage or a violent encounter, in this case with just -- you know, with fists, what if one of the two had a weapon, especially the driver? You don't know who is out there driving around that may have a gun and not appreciate being slowed down during rush hour.

So, the potential for violence is a decision that the chief of the St. Louis County police has to make the decision of protecting the people.

KEILAR: Phil, as you look at how they have arrested some of these folks during protests, what is your read on how they are handling the highway shutdown?

BANKS: Well, thus, it appears -- and once again, I'm not privy to the intimate details of what go into these decisions. But from afar, it certainly looks like they are handling it very appropriately. Once again, this is a small police department. A lot of outside resources coming in. The whole country is looking at what's going on because of what happened in the past.

That police chief certainly has a lot on his plate. And I think that he is doing a very good job erring at caution, making sure that he can deliver safety to all involved.

KEILAR: All right. Phil, Tom, thanks so much to both of you.

Be sure to join us tomorrow in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks so much for watching.

I'm Brianna Keilar here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.