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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Attacks Bill Clinton; Two Months That Matter; Trump, Cruz Face Iowa, N.H. Showdown; Bill Clinton's Sexual History Fair Game?; Gunmen Occupy Federal Building In Oregon; Not Their First Rodeo; Tracking The Anti-government Movement; Pastor Talks Down Gunman in Church; Inside The Tunnels Under Ramadi; Lawyer: "Affluenza Teen" May Remain In Mexico For Months; Missing Singer's Body Found; Surprise Delivery: Twins Born In Different Years. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 4, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:09] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. 9:00 P.M. here in New York and campaign crunch time in New Hampshire and Iowa. A frenzy day for the candidates. Nearly two dozen appearances in the first day stumping for perhaps the best known surrogate out there, Bill Clinton. He made stops in Nashua and exit in New Hampshire where he did not directly address shots that Donald Trump been taking it his sexual history or his wife for being in some words, his enabler.
Trump says that he's only firing back after Secretary Clinton said that he Trump had a pension for sexism. However campaigning in Lowell Massachusetts tonight he held his fire. Sara Murray is traveling with the Trump campaign and joins us from Lowell. What did Trump say tonight?
SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, he did hold his fire when it comes to Bill Clinton but not when it comes to his wife Hillary Clinton. He went after her saying that she would just be another Obama term and even predicting she could be even worse than President Barack Obama.
The interesting thing is he said though is tonight I'm in Massachusetts. I'm not in Iowa. I'm not in New Hampshire and that's because even as every other Republican as Barn storming forming these first two states, Donald Trump's campaign is still keeping their eye on this March first primaries in places like Massachusetts, big super Tuesday States and that is why we're here tonight, Anderson.
COOPER: And Sara, today Bill Clinton is out on the campaign trail. Did he have anything to say in response to Trump's comments?
MURRAY: That's right. A couple news outlets caught up with Bill Clinton earlier today and it seems like the former president wanted to take the high road. They asked about the recent shots that Donald Trump has been taking about his past indiscretions and infidelities and Clinton basically said look, it's my job to get our Democrats fired up to turn them out for Hillary Clinton and there is going to be someone who wants to take the election away from you.
So, it seems quite clear that he did not want to engage directly on his attacks with Donald Trump. And a couple of voters on the ground here told me that's how they want the candidates to behave. Someone here have said, they don't want to see a battle about past infidelities between Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. They would rather see their politicians talking about issue.
COOPER: That's Sara Murray. Sara, thanks for reporting. There's a reason why the candidates spent today and will spend the days ahead campaigning morning, noon and night. The way the Republican calendar works the entire primary race. It could be all but decided in the next two months. We have more on that now from CNN's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why he's calling for a temporary shut down on Muslims entering the United States.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump's first paid television ad is Vintage Trump, blunt and provocative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'll quickly cut the head Off ISIS and take their oil and he'll stop the illegal immigration by building a wall in our Southern border that Mexico will pay for.
BASH: And not without controversy. It turns out that footage of people flooding the border is not Mexico in the U.S. but Morocco in Spain. After the website Politico uncovered the discrepancy, the Trump campaign insisted it was intentional to show the "Severe impact of an open border." Trump rallied a huge crowd this weekend in Mississippi.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Outside we have thousands of people trying to get in.
BASH: But it is Iowa just four weeks away where Trump's fiercest competitor in the caucuses is spending his week.
TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is now the time that the men and women of Iowa step up.
BASH: Ted Cruz on a 28s top six day bus tour is trying to turn his Iowa lead in the polls into an actual win next month, appealing to evangelicals by quoting scripture.
CRUZ: Pray and lift up this country. We stand on the promise of second Chronicle 7:14 if my people which are called by my name should humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face then I will hear their prayers.
BASH: And throwing down his best client's wood imitation.
CRUZ: When you hang a man, make sure to hang him high.
BASH: The Iowa caucuses are February first, New Hampshire's primary is the ninth. That's where Marco Rubio and Chris Christie started their days making plays to be the alternatives to Trump and Cruz.
MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The job is not described in the constitution as entertainer in chief or commentator in chief or even frankly economist in chief. It is described as commander in chief. If you can't be bothered to offer specifics on how you will perform that job then quite frankly, you don't deserve that job.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But anger is not a strategy and it won't make our government better and it won't make our country better unless that anger is used to motivate us towards electing someone who actually can do the job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Dana Bash joins me now along with Frank Bruni columnist for the New York Times and Ryan Lizza, CNN commentator and Washington correspondent for the New Yorker. Dana, I would start with you, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, I mean the consensus seems to be Cruz has the edge in Iowa, Trump certainly in New Hampshire. How do you see that playing out?
BASH: Well, no question, Ted Cruz had spent so much time in Iowa and is as we speak and he tends to have an a natural constituency in Iowa. The caucus goers traditionally go for people like Ted Cruz, somebody who can talk their talk.
[21:05:01] You heard in my piece, you know, quoting scripture with ease and talking about being an outsider having done the job in the past. That's the kind of person that Ted Cruz is and the kind of voter that he is appealing to.
Trump and his campaign, they insist that they have kind of an under the radar ground game and that people don't know about and that he is going to attract people to the Iowa caucuses who haven't been there before. But that's -- it's a heavy lift to do because at the caucuses, you know, we've talked about this Anderson. It's a real commitment. You have to go. You have to stand up in public. You have to say...
BASH: ... "I support Donald Trump and here is why." So, you know, at this point in the game, it looks like its Cruz's to lose but Iowa is like to surprise people as well.
COOPER: And Ryan, I mean, I know you've been at several Trump rallies in the past few weeks. It's amazing that he is just now just out with a paid television ad. I mean, the fact that other candidates have been spending money. He hasn't have to.
RYAN LIZZA, CNN WASHINGTON CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah it's amazing. I mean he's basically received millions and millions of dollars in free advertising because he has dominated the air waves since June when he announced and, you know, Dana raised the important question here in Iowa for someone who is often politically active doesn't have a political network in the state, can Trump build that organization? And if you read some of the Iowa press and some of the articles of people trying to invest gate whether they are building an organization out there, the evidence is mixed. You know, I went to the Biloxi, Mississippi rally the other night and I decided to just go in with the crowd rather than go in to the press entrance so I wanted to see what people are talking about in the crowd and I waited with a group of people for 2.5 hours to get into that auditorium, and, you know, the thought did occur to me as I standing in line, it was getting colder and colder is if people here are in Biloxi, Mississippi while waiting for 2.5 hours to go see Trump, maybe that means that people will show up in a place like Iowa, right?
LIZZA: At least some evidence that they are committed supporters out there.
COOPER: And Frank, you wrote a column I read recently on Marco Rubio which a lot of people early on said he is the natural counter to Donald Trump or to Ted Cruz and yet, where is the lane for him to actually pick up delegates, to actually win?
FRANK BRUNI, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST: Well, that's a great question. I mean, I think people are starting to focus on that right now. Because you can't say OK, Marco is going to take off when he starts advertising. He's been advertising. Yeah, you can't say he's going to take off when he gets more debates under this bill. He has debated a bunch.
So, what is going to happen between now and Iowa and New Hampshire that suddenly going to lift Marco Rubio's poll numbers? And if he finishes third or lower in Iowa, third or lower in New Hampshire, that's a real crisis and momentum. And we've only had one nominee from either major party in the last three decades who lost both New Hampshire and Iowa and went on to get the Nomination and that was Bill Clinton but Tom Harken won Iowa that year. So that was sort of a factor that's not the kind of thing we have present this time around.
COOPER: And again, I mean say Cruz wins Iowa and Trump wins New Hampshire. Everyone turns to South Carolina, I mean is that Rubio's potential breakthrough moment or do you have to look to Nevada.
BASH: Well that's what Rubio campaign sources are hoping. That that is his breakthrough moment. I think Frank is exactly right. If Rubio does very poorly in Iowa and more importantly does poorly in New Hampshire, it's going to be very tough to get momentum into South Carolina. But he has been there more than any other candidate campaigning. His campaign manager is a South Carolina native. He is been talking up national security which does play well with the pretty large military population there. And if you look historically at South Carolina, even though there is a very big evangelical base in the conservative part of South Carolina, they also tend to go more establishments. Frank, you were there, George W. Bush did won in South Carolina. Newt Gingrich won last time around. I mean he's the former speaker. It doesn't get more establishment than that. So, that's what the Rubio camp is taking on but Frank is right. He's got to not completely plummet in the first two big states.
COOPER: You know, Frank, I heard Hillary Clinton today saying she's trying not to respond to Donald Trump. Bill Clinton said didn't want to kind of respond to Donald Trump. Does that mean that Trump attacks against the Clintons are working, that they don't know how to respond to that particular line?
BRUNI: I think there's no great way to respond to them. I think Trump is actually being very smart in pursuing this line. I mean, it may not be attractive. You know, it may be digging back into old stuff that maybe sort of below the belt, maybe not the best phrase for that. But I think he's -- he knows that this gets Republicans riled up. He knows that to remind them of all the Clinton scandals, I think it's very smart what he is doing.
COOPER: Ryan, do you agree that, that, I mean that this may be a difficult thing for them to respond to. There is no good way to do it?
LIZZA: I think so. Look, I don't -- you know, I could've argue this both ways. On the one hand, the Clintons have gotten pretty far in politics dealing with a lot of indiscretions on Bill's part right?
[21:10:00] On the other hand, nobody has really pressed this case against Hillary Clinton and nobody has ever tried to argue that she has some sort of responsibility policy wise and on women's issues because of Bill's indiscretions. And that's what Trump is arguing here, right? He's not just arguing that, you know, Bill Clinton is a bad person because of these indiscretions, he's saying that Hillary has some capability and that's uncharted territory.
I don't remember Rick Lazio doing that in the 2000 senate campaign. I certainly know that Barack Obama's campaign never touched that and neither has Bernie Sanders. So like everything else this year, Donald Trump is going somewhere where no one else has been and we -- I wouldn't predict how it would end.
COOPER: All right. Dana, thanks very much. Ryan Lizza and Frank Bruni, thank you very much.
LIZZA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, there's a lot more happening tonight including the armed extremist holding a federal facility in Oregon armed and homegrown. We'll look at their demands and how authorities are handling them and why they may represent a growing danger phenomenon in the country?
Later it could have been the beginning of a horror story. A man with a gun goes into a crowded church service, instead, the story has a remarkable and inspiring ending. We'll see why, we'll talk to the pastor who saved the day.
COOPER: Well tonight, we're keeping a close eye on the standoff in Oregon where group of armed protesters took over a federal building on Saturday. They say they're not going anywhere. It started as a protest against the sentencing of two ranchers who were convicted of arson. The group's spokesman says it's now about restoring and defending the U.S constitution. They call themselves patriots. Sara Sidner joins me now.
So what's the latest with this takeover?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They've decided to stay put.
[21:15:00] They say they're going to stand their ground but they believe this land was taken illegally by the federal government. This is a national wildlife refuge here in Malheur. It's called the Malheur National Refuge and basically what they've done is they blocked it off so you can't get down to the headquarters.
This is a national wildlife refuge here in Malheur. It's called the Malheur National Refuge and basically what they've done is they blocked it off so you can't get down to the headquarters. They have taken over the area of the headquarters where normally families might come to enjoy a day basically at the National Refuge, going down there having picnics but there is a lot of equipment as well down there that the refuge would use to kind of deal with issues in this wildlife refuge.
However, they are saying "Look, we are armed. We do not plan to do any violence, unless, of course, there is violence perpetrated on us by the police." And we have heard from the sheriff in this town which is about 30 miles from here the closest town named Burns and he has said "You know what, you need to go home. You need to leave this area. You're not from here. And you're not welcome to stay here." Anderson.
COOPER: Do we know -- I mean would they be allowed to go home? I mean, I assumed they have broken the law taking over some building that is not theirs. Would they face any charges? Have we heard anything from the sheriff about that?
SIDNER: No. We haven't heard anything about them facing charges at this point and there are several buildings that are down there. They're small buildings that some of the house things like tractors for example and some equipment to deal with taking this area.
However, they have gone into some of buildings and their argument is this belongs to the people. So the people should be able to use it whenever they want. And they want this land handed back to the local people not run by the federal government. And they say that is their constitutional right and that is why they are here.
But what brought them here in the first place you mentioned earlier is this family here. A father and son who were convicted of arson who own a ranch here, who went to jail and went to prison, served time for it, then got out but then a Federal judge said, "Hold on a second, we don't think that sentence was long enough. You did not serve enough time and sent them back to prison."
They have gone back to prison. And their attorney has said, "Look, these folks here who are doing this in their name don't really speak for the Hammond family however, we did talk to some of the people running this and basically they said, "Look, with e have been speaking to the Hammond. We have taken up their cause although we don't speak for the Hammond," Anderson?
COOPER: And Sara, are more people arriving to join the group or is it kind of the area cut off that even though people wanted to join them, they couldn't join them? Do we know?
SIDNER: They could absolutely join them. I mean, it's basically open here Anderson. We're the only ones out here, the media and these folks. We haven't seen any law enforcement out here, no FBI. The sheriffs department has been out here. The police have been out here from the local town. It really is open land that is about 30 to 35 miles away from the nearest town.
So they're saying look, if you want to join us, please, come on in and you can walk right in. They have two guards that are kind of posted up there and then there is someone up on the tower way up behind me that's very dark, you can't see him but we see the light going up and down. There is someone spotting to see who is coming. And they have said they're armed and they have said they won't use their arms unless arms are used against them but this obviously could get ugly if there is a decision made to try to go in and root them out. They have said they stand their ground, Anderson.
COOPER: Yeah. Already seems pretty ugly. Sara Sidner Thanks very much. Joining me now is former FBI lead international kidnapping negotiator Chris Voss, author of the forthcoming book "Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if your life depended on it" and CNN national security analyst and former homeland security assistant secretary Juliette Kayyem. Juliette, you called this takeover nothing short of terrorism. Explain why you say that?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Terrorism is the use of force or threat and use of force for political purposes or to punctuate political change through undemocratic means. I don't know what else you call this is this domestic terrorism. And just to put in perspective. There's been domestic terrorism in the United States throughout our history.
We don't need to get scared about the word. We don't need to, you know, view that the sky is falling, but we need to call it what it is and to not view these guys as jokesters or they are in an isolated area of Oregon. This is serious and to the extend they feel like they can use arms to take over a Federal facility, deprive others of access to that facility and as we're seeing close the school district in the surrounding areas.
COOPER: Chris, whether it's terrorism or not, whatever one calls it, how does one best resolve a situation like this? Because people can't be allowed to, you know, take up arms and take over property that isn't theirs. So what do you do?
CHRIS VOSS, FBI LEAD INTERNATIONAL KIDNAPPING NEGOTIATOR: Well, actually, law enforcement in the first place, they are not going to call them terrorists because that's what they'd love to be called.
[21:20:00] Law enforcement is going to take a very careful soft on the globe approach to this as then really take the sheriff's lead because they don't want to find this in this something its not. These guys are basically out there stomping there feet and holding their breath trying to get somebody's attention. And the last thing the law enforcement needs to do is to inflame it. So they won't and I'll take a very patient approach to this.
COOPER: Do you think they should face then sort of punishment and whether its, you know, doesn't have to be a confrontation right now but once they leave, should there be some, you know, some ramifications for what they've done?
VOSS: Yeah, and eventually there will be. It just doesn't need to be escalated. Indictments last for a long time. They can be indicted. They can have legal documents filed against them so they can be arrested at the appropriate time. You know, there is no need to escalate this. These guys on the middle of nowhere and law enforcement doesn't need to escalate it.
Protecting people from themselves sometimes is what law enforcement does very well. And I really don't want to see this guys get hurt.
COOPER: Juliette, what do you think the response should be?
KAYYEM: I agree whole heartedly in my opinion piece I say so that time is on the federal government or all law enforcement side. They are isolated. They will run out of food. They will run out of water. They will lack communications. And eventually they will get bored or they'll turn on each other.
The -- what we want right now is for the law enforcement to take a deep breath, recognize that the most important thing is saving lives and that because no children or other civilians appear to be in imminent danger to stay put for now. That does not negate the fact that these men are saying that they will use violence but simply the federal government does not need to rush in nor does local law enforcement.
COOPER: Chris, in terms of a law enforcement perspective, is the only situation where going in and using force would be appropriate is if innocent lives were in danger?
VOSS: Right. Exactly. That's exactly it. Whether or not somebody on the outside's lives were in danger and they need to respond in order to protect life. In this particular situation, you know, careful measured response, even though are these guys are breaking a law their still American citizens and deserve as much protection as the law can give them. In that's exactly what law enforcement is trying to do.
COOPER: Chris, Juliette, appreciate both of your time tonight. Thank you a complex situation.
VOSS: My pleasure. Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, more on what makes this group tick and what it may take to make it stop and why the extremist movement -- well, why it's real.
[21:26:02] COOPER: Well, the people occupying that federal facility rule, Oregon say they'll stay there for years of necessary. They are lead by cattle ranger and as CNN, Dan Simon reports whatever you think of the cause, well, this is not his first rodeo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMMON BUNDY, RANCHER: It's disgusting how they must think of the constitution.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We first met the Bundy family two years ago in Nevada. Ammon Bundy who is now leading the charge in Oregon as well as his father, the patriarch Cliven Bundy...
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Bundy, I see in your arms that you are holding a dead calf.
SIMON: ... who knew how to get attention with stunts like this.
BUNDY: He's been without his mother two weeks.
SIMON: Appearing on CNN'S "New Day" and accusing the federal government of killing his livestock. Bundy and supporters were in the midst of a heated clash with the feds and at one point, it turned violent.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Back up. You can get that.
SIMON: The issue was over land rights, the Bundy's are cattle ranchers, the family's time here dating back to the 1800. For the next century, the families, multiple generations went about their business. But in 1989 a problem, the U.S. government declared the Mojave Desert turtle an endangers species which put into to livestock raising on federal land. For ranchers like Bundy it was devastating ruling. Most packed up and left. Bundy stayed.
BUNDY: I said no, not only said no I said hell no.
SIMON: And serve for more than two decades, he's been repeatedly fined for grazing his cattle on public land. The bill totaling more than $1 million. The Bundy's refuse to pay for one simple reason. They don't recognize the feds as having any legal authority. What's your name?
WHIP HOLT, BUNDY SUPPORTER: My mellitum name is Whip Holt and I just assume to go by that.
SIMON: Just like now at Oregon, Bundy had armed militia men supporting him.
PAUL LINDSEY, BUNDY SUPPORTER: It's now different than Mexican drug cartels coming to you and down in Mexico and telling you to pay money to stay on your own property. It's the same thing.
SIMON: For ignoring the fees the fed seized some of Bundy's cattle but faced with the prospect of a bloody confrontation, another will be rich the government relented and Bundy and supporters claimed victory.
For awhile, the federal renegade had been a hero to people like Senator Rand Paul and Fox is Sean Hannity that is until Bundy said this.
BUNDY: I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro. And often wondered are they better off as slaves picking cotton and having family life doing things or they better off under government subsidy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: And just like that the Bundy's basically lost all their mainstream support and fell off the radar that is until people with the same last name converged on a small town in Oregon. Dan Simon, CNN, San Francisco.
COOPER: Digging deeper now into this group as well as the broader anti-government militia movement that appears to be growing, the southern poverty laws that attracts it. Southern Poverty Law Center President, Richard Cohen joins us now. This group calls itself Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, is a basically the same group the people that were supporting Cliven Bundy back in 2014?
RICHARD COHEN, PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: I think that's right, Anderson and, you know, really, what's going on now is direct result of what happened in 2014. Now one of your earlier guests talked about, you know, waiting them out and then, you know, maybe issuing indictments. That didn't happen in 2014.
The people had pointed guns at federal officials got off Scott free and declared themselves the winners. They talked about courage being contagious and now we see the results of it. People are emboldened and now, you know, this is happening in Oregon and, you know, it's really a direct result of I think the failure of the federal government to act more decisively after the debacle in 2014.
COOPER: So even after the crowds left, even after the, you know, bodyguards left Cliven Bundy, the federal government didn't continue to prosecute him you're saying?
COHEN: They didn't prosecute at all. Cliven Bundy still owes $1 million and the people who pointed guns at federal officials have not been brought to justice.
[21:30:03] That's the essential problem. Now, you know, see some of the federal officials might have been scared they might have thought that Josh, would lose the case to a Nevada jury. I don't know. But, you know, there was certainly, you know, there are many more militia people now than there were in 2014.
COOPER: And Ammon Bundy who's leading the charge now, he's no stranger to confrontation, right?
COHEN: No, absolutely not. You know, he got in a confrontation with federal officials in early 2014 and was tasered. And that was on YouTube and shown and it really energized people. Literally hundreds of people came to the Bundy Ranch at that time.
COOPER: You said the federal government's response to what happened to Bundy Ranch has continued to allow this to happen. How does the response in Oregon now in your opinion needs to be different from the response in Nevada in 2014?
COHEN: Well, I mean, I think in the short run, they have to wait these people out. But once they come out they need to indict them. They need to arrest them for, you know, a variety of federal charges. That is what has to happen.
You know, Anderson, one thing I think it's important to note is, that there's been long-standing friction between the federal government and ranchers and other people over federal land use.
And, you know, it's waxed and waned in the '70s and early '80s. We have those -- it was called the Sagebrush Rebellion. And this is just the latest incarnation of that battle and that lawlessness. And it's dangerous. People have guns and, you know, its -- people could be hurt.
You know, after the Bundy debacle in 2014, two people who had been at the ranch executed in cold blood, two law enforcement officials in Las Vegas.
COOPER: That was a man and woman...
COHEN: That's what happens. That's right. Jared and Amanda Miller were their names. And then they killed a third person in a Walmart before they were stopped.
COOPER: Richard Cohen, I appreciate you being on, I have to follow this obviously very closely.
Just ahead in North Carolina, a man walks into a church service with a rifle. Thanks to the extraordinary actions of the pastor, no one was hurt and the gunman actually ended up giving up, going with police.
I'll speak with the pastor, next.
[21:36:02] COOPER: Our breaking news tonight, President Obama will announce a series of executive actions tomorrow to combat gun violence including expanding background checks for certain purchases at gun shows.
He says the measures are ones of the overwhelming majority of Americans, including gun owner support but when it comes to Republican presidential candidates, the reaction and even the idea of any new restrictions is far from friendly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama has been lawless in his use of executive orders.
TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama is talking about this week issuing yet another executive order trying to go after our right to keep and bare arms.
MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But don't worry, when I'm elected president, on my first day behind that desk, those orders are gone.
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: His first impulse always is to take rights away from law abiding citizens.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president is a petulant child. Now this president wants to act as if he's a king.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will veto that. I will unsign that so fast, so fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President Obama is repeatedly expressed frustration after shootings in this country.
Right now, we have the kind of story that has happened over and over only with a very different outcome.
At a service on New Years Eve, a man walked with a gun into a church in Fayetteville North Carolina. The pastor had been talking to his congregation about senseless deaths and the way he handled the situation very lightly preventing more of them from happening right in front of him.
Mr. Larry Wright, joins me.
Pastor Wright, can you just take us through what happened because I understand you were in the middle of your sermon and you've see this man come through the backdoor. At what point did you realize something was wrong, that he had a rifle?
LARRY WRIGHT, PASTOR, HEAL THE LAND OUTREACH MINISTIRES: Well, it was around 11:40, I was in the middle of my message and he walks through the double doors and immediately I see a rifle. And I looked again and then I see, you know, the ammunition cartridge in the other hand and I realized, "Wow, this is real."
I immediately stepped down from the pull pit and by that time, we were kind of up front at the first or second pew. And I asked him, you know, "Sir, can we help you?" And he said, "Can you pray for me?"
Once he request a prayer, he had the weapon in his hand and in my mind I just needed to disarm him and get the weapon away from him and he leaned toward me to give the weapon. I took the weapon from him and the ammunition and gave it to one of my deacons, immediately took it to the back. And I begin to pat him down, had him hold his arms out and made sure I frisked him and he didn't have any other type of weapons or anything else on him.
After he was clean, I told the congregation, "It's OK, it's OK, everything's all right". And he just wants prayer. And he request a prayer and I begin to minister to him at that point and pray for him.
As I prayed for him, he fell to his knees and began to cry and weep. And I continued to pray for him and as I picked him up, I asked four of my brothers to come and embrace him because I just felt like when I looked into his eyes initially, that he was a hurting young man. He needed love. He needed someone to care and it kind of diffused that moment in time.
Congregation settled down and everyone sat back down. I told him to remain in the sanctuary to sit there. "Don't leave because I want to speak with you after the service because I want to help you".
COOPER: So you continued...
WRIGHT: He stayed...
COOPER: You continued with your service?
WRIGHT: I continued with my service. I continued with my sermon. I did not want anything to stop the service. It was a New Year night service of celebration.
COOPER: It's just incredible to me that you had the presence of mind all throughout this...
WRIGHT: Well, Anderson, it's all about love. It's all about caring. This young man, he came in and was scary.
[21:40:00] But I saw more than just his outer appearance. I looked in his eyes and I saw his heart. And I knew that he needed love. He needed understanding. He needed someone to reach out to him in that moment.
COOPER: He certainly picked the right person to make contact with in you. Have you had any contact with him since that night?
WRIGHT: Oh, yes. I had contact with him. He came back to the church Sunday evening. He came back to apologize. And he had not been on his medication for three months. And he's a veteran. He has PTSD. His wife has been diagnosed with a critical illness.
You know, and at the time his lights was off. He was just in a fix and he said, he came out to do something that night but when he said, "I just need prayer", I knew, then that everything was going to be all right.
COOPER: Pastor Wright, it's just extraordinary and extraordinary presence of mind, as I said. And I appreciate all you did and I appreciate you talking to us tonight. Thank you so much.
WRIGHT: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: It's amazing presence of mind.
Program note on Thursday, President Obama is going to join me for town hall conversation on guns and gun control. We're calling it "Guns in America". The president will take questions from me and audience members as Thursday 8:00 P.M. Eastern live on "360".
Just ahead tonight, first look at the tunnels that ISIS was using to evade air strikes in Iraq and elaborate system of passages under Ramadi.
[21:45:20] COOPER: The local tribal leaders of Ramadi say ISIS still controls about a quarter of the Iraqi city but after months of daily attacks, Iraqi forces and the U.S. led coalition have driven them from the center of the city. And Iraqi counter terrorist overseas commander said that during the attacks, the ISIS militants would disappear. It turns out they were hiding in tunnels beneath houses underground passageways which we're now getting our first look at. Our CNN Senior International Correspondent, Nima Elbagir.
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NIMA ELBAGIR, REPORTER: Ramadi, after months of ISIS rule, this is what remains. ISIS occupation of the city leaving its mark both above and below ground. These are the houses that the militants were hiding inside of. You can see what they were doing is they were digging up tunnels so that they were able to move from house to house without being seen by the coalition planes.
And so, that this wasn't spotted from the air, they were hiding the dirt that they were digging up and keeping it inside the houses themselves. If you come through here, we can show you one of the tunnels leading through.
Some of these tunnels we're told went as far as a kilometer. We're going to go have a look inside. Not actually that wide but it does give you a sense of the moving in the dark under the ground out of sight.
Ramadi fell to ISIS in May, last year. Since then, Iraqi forces have been battling to reclaim their territorial integrity and their ravage morale. The head of Iraq's counter terror force told us the liberation of Ramadi should be celebrated around the world.
TALIB KENANI, COMMANDER GENERAL OF IRAQ: Defeating ISIS and this victory has impacted upon ISIS plans and its very existence causing weakness and desperation. The road to Mosul is now open and clear. ELBAGIR: Blind folded and bound, captured ISIS fighters face the wall. They were we're told attempting to blend in to what remains of the local population. A reminder ISIS fighters could be hiding in plain sight. Even as the road to Mosul is in the Iraqi armed forces' sight, a week on from the announcement of liberation here in Ramadi and counter terror forces battled have gone to the city as the remaining militant's presence.
We're hearing some pops of gunfire there. A little further across the other side of the river. The fighting is ongoing. The cleanup operation is still going on and that's why the helicopter is circling overhead.
In spite of the threat of IEDs and road side bombs, the troops continue their pain staking push, under every inch of reclaimed territory a possible death. Everyone here knows so much is at steak in this claimed liberation and not just for Iraq.
KENANI: This victory is a victory for humanity because ISIS is against Iraq and against all of humanity.
ELBAGIR: It is also finally some possible momentum in the battle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And then Nima Elbagir joins us now from Baghdad. I understand there are still hundreds of families trapped inside Ramadi, correct?
ELBAGIR: Yeah, possibly up to 1,000, Anderson. It's not just the tunnels that ISIS has been using to hide from the coalition. What they have been doing is they have been moving civilians from those areas that border where the government is currently in control deeper into that territory where some of the government offensive to consolidate their hold in Ramadi is coming round through and the coalition air strikes -- the U.S. air strikes are concentrating on. And they are essentially using them as human shields.
They're moving them around the houses where they still have a presence there. We spoke to one 70 old woman. She said, the only reason that she might escaped is that her neighbors let her picked up her wheelchair, carried her under the gunfire and ran to the closest government checkpoint.
COOPER: I read that the Iraq's prime minister said that 2016 is the year ISIS will be driven out of Iraq. I mean, is that just, you know, tough talk? Does that at all seem possible?
ELBAGIR: Well, you saw those tunnels and that's in Ramadi where ISIS only helds for about six months. Imagine what it looks like on the similar like Mosul or Fallujah where they've held for almost two years now. When they entrench, they entrench and you're talking about street to street warfare in a lot of these strongholds.
[21:50:00] But there is a sense that the Iraqis are being finally carried by this wave of a sense that actually maybe we can push back against ISIS. Tellingly though, the U.S. still has not yet announced Ramadi liberators. So, there seems to be a sense on the American official site that there are still a lot of work to be done here.
COOPER: That helicopter you saw are going overhead, do you know, was that -- I mean, was that an American helicopter? Was it piloted by Americans or by Iraqis, do we know?
ELBAGIR: Well, that was being -- it was an Iraqi helicopter, but it was being piloted based on American intelligence. And what U.S. fire planes we're seeing where two ISIS suicide car bombs heading towards that exact position where we were at.
COOPER: Wow. Nima Elbagir, appreciate the reporting. Be careful. There's a lot more happening time. Amara Walker is at 360 bulletin.
AMARA WALKER, REPORTER: Anderson, a lawyer for the so-called affluenza teen told ABC news it may be months before Ethan Couch is deported back to the U.S. from Mexico. He was on probation for killing four people while driving drunk when he crossed the border. Authorities found him and his mother near Puerta Vallarta after a war on this issue. Tonya Couch is back in the U.S. charged with hindering the apprehension of a felon.
Search parties today recovered the body of missing country music singer, Craig Strickland. He was duck hunting with a friend, Chase Moreland in Oklahoma on December 27th when severe weather struck the area. Moreland's body was pulled from the lake last week.
And a first look at the wreckage of the El Faro, 15,000 feet under water. The cargo ship sank in the Bahamas during a hurricane in October. 33 crew members were on board, none survived.
And twins born in different year. It doesn't happen often but these babies beat the odd. Jaylen Valencia made her entrance at 11:59 PM on December 31st. Jeff under the wire, her brother, Louie, arrived at 12:02 am on January 1st, just three minutes apart and also a month early.
COOPER: Wow. Well, we wish them the best. Amara, thanks very much.
Coming up, a look back at my New Year's Eve with Kathy Griffin in Times Square.
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[21:55:53] COOPER: Well, it's something I certainly look forward to and also fear tremendously every year. My New Year's Eve with Kathy Griffin in Times Square. This year she came up with some new ways to torture me and also make me giggle like a school girl.
The seconds before we went on, Kathy kept yelling, "Open up the barn door. Open up the barn door."
KATHY GRIFFIN, NEW YEAR'S EVE LIVE SPECIAL CO-HOST: That's right. COOPER: I thought she was talking to me. I didn't know what she meant.
GRIFFIN: His barn door has been open a little too much lately. At least let's close the barn door, OK.
What's her name? Jessica?
GRIFFIN: I didn't ask.
GRIFFIN: Honey, I didn't ask. Anyway, I need...
COOPER: And you're awful. Awful.
GRIFFIN: I slept with Ryan Seacrest last night.
COOPER: Kathy believes Ryan Seacrest is...
GRIFFIN: I had sex with Ryan Seacrest last night.
COOPER: You did not.
GRIFFIN: Yes, I did.
COOPER: No, you didn't.
GRIFFIN: Sure did.
That's a bad angle for me. Come on, Janice, up, up, up, up, let's go. How many times can we do this?
COOPER: Not appropriate.
GRIFFIN: So I have to be down here with them, pregnant. I tried on...
POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: I know. It's wrong.
GRIFFIN: ... five jackets. This is the only one that zipped and you're going to take your clothes off? That's how we're going to start tonight?
HARLOW: That sounds great.
GRIFFIN: Well, Poppy, are you crowning? Are you crowning, Poppy?
COOPER: Can I just say, I...
HARLOW: You know, I...
GRIFFIN: Are you crowning?
HARLOW: ... I think that's for later hours...
COOPER: Yes, please.
HARLOW: ... when we have that discussion.
GRIFFIN: I can just go see you with somewhat of the "walking dead" and be like, have you met my new boyfriend? What's up? He walks and he's dead. Right? And then I'm the weird one. That's what you just don't get, America. This guy would date someone from the walking dead even though he's dead. Glory would say thing like, "Anderson wants to go to Hershey, Pennsylvania and I don't understand. I grew up in Third Dark Goodman where they have fine chocolate. I'm a cozy diver (ph).
COOPER: How many people do you think are trying to kill you? Because...
GRIFFIN: Oh, I think you're trying to kill me. Oprah, Demi Lovato, for sure, Ryan Seacrest, obviously, Taylor Swift, maybe. And any girl squad, I'm nervous about squad.
I'm going to deliver a baby live on CNN, Poppy Harlow.
HARLOW: That's great. And it's accelerating.
GRIFFIN: Anderson went to the same place, which is, he gets this look whenever Poppy is talking or anyone else frankly. And he's like, "Oh, God, I'm so bored with my money and my pedigree." And then I went, Nick Jonas is singing, and he went like this, I want to be pansexual.
NICK JONAS, SINGER: Well, you're welcome, Kathy.
COOPER: You can be whatever you want.
GRIFFIN: I think I just began. Cabbage patch.
COOPER: Like to the cabbage patch?
GRIFFIN: Well, I'm just saying, you should have been like, "Oh, my God, Madonna, I'll do whatever you want." You were like, I don't know how to do this.
COOPER: I was nervous. And I'm -- don't -- in public.
GRIFFIN: You should have been, like it.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Whoa! Whoa. Oh, knew it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER (In Unison): Oh! Whoa
GRIFFIN: So not even near midnight.
LEMON: Is this really happening? It's cold out here, shrinkage. Anyways... GRIFFIN: It was just Don Lemon talking about shrinkage all night long. You have Poppy...
HARLOW: You have traumatized my husband. He is texting me asking what crowning is. I do not want to go home tonight, Kathy. Thank you for that.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am still bar hopping. The bars have actually kicked me outside. I'm now outside the Hard Rock Cafe.
GRIFFIN: Oh, Randi.
KAYE: I had one too many skittles. That drink that I made? Bad idea.
GRIFFIN: Oh, Skittles.
KAYE: Really bad.
GRIFFIN: In case you thought you were too pale. Ladies and gentlemen, Anderson Cooper has been spray tanned. We're live from Rio. We are live from Rio in the hot sun. Anderson Cooper has been spray tanned. You look...
GRIFFIN: Just knowing that your entire identity is in your looks is what makes this moment so perfect.
What is it like to live with "affluenza", Anderson? Tortured with "affluenza".
COOPER: Moving along.
GRIFFIN: Whenever was -- we got no sound with Gary Tuchman.
COOPER: No, I've got sound. I heard it.
GRIFFIN: Anderson acted like he knew what they were saying or cared.
COOPER: I just does...
GRIFFIN: So I got like an inside window, what he does every night which is a lot of this. OK, then. All right. That's true. We just want to give you a laugh and a chuckle. Keep that in mind when you're hate tweeting me later. Just, really, just wanted to give you a chuckle with a handsome model.
[22:00:00] Now, when are you going to go back to modeling and get rid of the news man thing?
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COOPER: It was quite a night. That does it for us. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.