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Officials Say IIS Planning Multiple Plots in Europe; Brussels Manhunt for Two Terror Suspects; Arrests In Anti-Terror Raids in Brussels Tonight; State Department Warning About Travel to Europe; House Intel Chairman Suggests American Targeted; Clinton Says We Cannot Give in to Panic and Fear; Cruz says to Patrol and Secure Muslim Neighborhoods; Intense Manhunt Underway for Airport Terrorists. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 24, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news. Anti-terror raids and arrests tonight in multiple locations in Brussels. Those raids connected to the deadly attacks. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. That big development amid fears of possible new terror attacks in Europe. U.S. investigators say ISIS has multiple plots in the final planning stages. So you want to turn right away to CNN International Correspondent, Clarissa Ward who is in Brussels right now. Clarissa, what can you tell me about these raids tonight in both France and Belgium?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, there's a lot of information coming into us at the moment. What we know so far here in Belgium, at least six people arrested, three people arrested outside of the prosecutor's office, two in the area called Jette and one other in an unknown location. We just returned from the scene of a raid that was ongoing for several hours. It's not exactly clear what the target of the raid was, but it took place in a neighborhood where there have been several other raids over the past few days. Essentially what we saw a large police presence and what appeared to be forensic experts inside this building, combing through every detail. They appear to be paying specific attention to an apartment on the third floor.
Again, we don't know what the target of the raid was but we could see a number of experts going in and out, apparently collecting evidence and taking it away in cars. There are two main focuses right now in terms of the manhunt that is ongoing here in Belgium. First of all, authorities here announcing today that they are now looking for a second participant in the attack on the metro bombing. Reportedly images from surveillance video showing a second man next to the bomber, Khalid El Bakraoui, carrying some kind of a large bag. Now, authorities haven't released those images of the man. We don't know what he looks like. We don't know his nationality. We really don't know anything about him. But he is the focus of the manhunt.
The other focus, as you probably remember, it's an image that by now we all know well, the third man in that airport bombing attack, he's the man at the edge. Photograph, he's wearing a light jacket, he's wearing glasses and a hat, perhaps an attempt to try and disguise his identity. But again, Belgian officials releasing very little information about who this man is, where they believe him to be and what his role in this attack was. Because of course his bomb, his suitcase full of explosives never actually detonated.
WARD: Meanwhile, not connected to these raids but in France, Don, we have another series of ongoing major terror operations -- anti-terror operations I should say -- aimed at taking out a plot that according to France's interior minister was actually in its advanced stages. And the Interior Minister earlier saying, this is an ongoing situation, asking journalists not to ask too many questions about the details of it. But we do know that a man was arrested this morning after a week's long investigation and it was through his arrest that the police launched this series of raids in the Argenteuil suburb of France. So clearly, Don, it's a fluid situation here in Belgium and in France.
LEMON: Thank you very much Clarissa Ward. I want to bring in Senior Justice Correspondent, Pamela Brown. Pam, what are you learning about other ISIS plots in Brussels and Europe?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we're learning that investigators are aware of multiple additional ISIS plots in Europe, possibly linked to the Paris and Brussels networks and these plots they're in various stages of planning. Including in some cases officials believe attacks are imminent. The belief is there are dozens, if not more, potential and known ISIS operatives that are still in Europe with ties to these attackers. And officials have collected this intelligence based on human sources, electronic intercepts and other means. That indicates that these people are working to launch further terror attacks across Europe.
There are multiple threat streams intelligence services are tracking, but officials over there are just simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume. And there is a high level of concern in the wake of Paris and the wake of Brussels anything can happen because of all of these people who are still on the loose in Europe, who've had this intent and the intelligence coming in, Don, in some of these cases is fragmentary so they don't have specific information to indicate the where and when?
LEMON: What are authorities saying about possible intelligence failures leading up to Tuesday's attack?
[22:05:00] BROWN: Well, there's a few things at play here, we had the two officials -- high level officials in Belgium -- who handed in their resignations today because of the fact that one of the brothers, who was at the airport, the suicide bomber, went to Turkey, was deported last summer. Possibly deported again and he was flagged for his ties to terrorism. And then in addition to that we have the other brother who had an Interpol red notice out on him. I think the fact that these people, some of these people involved with the Brussels attacks, also were involved with the Paris attacks is adding to the sense this is an intelligence failure. But also, Don, official's I've been speaking with say there's a lot going on here. Officials are simply overwhelmed. There are too many foreign fighter in Europe. They can't keep up with it. There's politics at play as well. So there's a lot of factors.
LEMON: All right, Pamela Brown, than you very much for that. I want to turn now to terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank and Michael Weiss, who is a co-author of "ISIS, Inside the Army of Terror." Good evening to you gentlemen. What are your sources telling you, Paul, about these anti-terror raids?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, EDITOR IN CHIEF, CTC SENTINEL: These are very significant raids in Brussels tonight. They're directed against what they believe is the cell that took part in this attack. People, they believe, may be linked to that attack. There are six people in custody. It's not clear if any of those people in custody are any of those key suspects we've been talking about in the last hours. One of those suspect who is escaped from the airport didn't blow himself up there. Another one seen on CCTV footage at that Brussels metro stop, very near another one of the bombers.
Six people in custody, three of those we understand arrested outside the Belgium federal prosecutor's office, right in the center of Brussels, right by the law courts, the Palais de Justice. Unclear of the circumstance, unclear if they were posing some kind of threat to that building, to the people who were still inside. Remember this prosecutor's office is leading the charge in terms of the investigation into the cell. So very odd indeed. And potentially disturbing that three people would be arrested there.
LEMON: It's interesting. The same question before we move on. What are your sources telling you, Michael?
MICHAEL WEISS, SENIOR EDITOR, DAILY BEAST, CO-AUTHOR, "ISIS: INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR": We don't know the real size and extent of this network. You've seen reports today, 400 ISIS trained operatives have been sent to Europe to conduct these terror operations. I was talking to people recently defected from the ISIS organization today. And I was told after Paris this was a sea change for them. It was a successful operation, wildly so, and for them striking in the heart of Europe, blowing up cities on the continent is their storming of Mosul in June of 2014. This is where they're putting a lot of energy and a lot of resources. And the foreign intelligence division or wing of ISIS is now seen to be kind of the going concern of ISIS trade craft. And there are a lot of Europeans, and it's not just French and Belgium. It's really a francophone phenomenon more so than --
LEMON: Explain that.
WEISS: Well, for French speakers, you have a lot of people who are going into Syria. They haven't got a word of Arabic, they speak only French. But there's such an apparatus, such a network there, they're able to be trained up, given all the instructions they need. Dispatched back to Europe and lying in wait. You've got essentially the continent honeycombs with these agents running around. You know, 400 is a very conservative assessment in my view.
LEMON: What are we looking at? Are we looking at two -- what are we learning about, two separate teams here? Were there two teams? WEISS: At the time of the Brussels attacks, officials believe that
there were indeed two teams that were going to be involved in this and the first team were neutralized. The threat from them was neutralized. That was the Salah Abdeslam team. They were in a safe house, Salah Abdeslam's hiding place after the Paris attack in the four neighborhoods of Brussels. On Tuesday of last week Belgian police and French police went into that building because they believed it was connected to the Paris attacks. What they were not expecting to find is anybody inside at all, but they found three of the most wanted terrorists in Europe inside. There was a fierce gun battle. Overall leader of the entire conspiracy, Paris and Brussels, provided covering fire with a Kalashnikov, that individual Mohamed Belkaid was subsequently killed by a Belgian police sniper. The other two managed to escape during all that gun fire over the roofs of the building and then Salah Abdeslam made a crucial mistake. He called somebody up. They were being monitored by Belgian security services. He was taken into custody. As the dragnet fell on team A, the first part of this conspiracy, the other team decided to accelerate the plans that this whole two-team conspiracy had. And that's why we saw these attacks at the airport and at the metro station. But it could have been just a lot bigger. Salah Abdeslam is suspected -- would have been involved.
[22:10:00] LEMON: The House Intel Chairman, Devin Nunes, suggested today the Americans were specifically targeted at the airport. Do you guys agree with that?
LEMON: Why so?
WEISS: Well I mean, Americans are still the top prize for ISIS. We are seen as the world superpower.
LEMON: Was it because of the proximity to U.S airlines to their counters?
WEISS: Well, in an international airport you're going to probably get Americans. Particularly in the capital of the European Union, the capitol of NATO. And they did. A dozen or so Americans are still wounded from this attack, many are missing. They hit a guy, I think a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force. That's music to their ears. That's what they want to do. And it's not just American by the way. They are also have also wanted to get Brits, Frenchman, you know, people from the Netherlands, you name it. So soft targets, but international symbols in particular are a priority.
LEMON: How frustrated are U.S. counter terrorism officials within Belgian counterparts?
CRUICKSHANK: They do communicate with them. That there is a good working relationship between the two services. People beat up on Belgium a lot, but you've got to realize two things -- number one, Belgium is being the brunt of the international attack, calling it the richest, fiercest group in terrorist history who have got more Western foreign fighters than any other terrorist group has ever been able to get before. And small little Belgium is dealing with the brunt of this. And this is a country which doesn't have anywhere near the resources of a Britain or a France. Let alone the United States with all the resources that you have over here. And there are many people working round the clock to try and protect Belgium, very, very good people. Some of the politician, the political leaders, however, are not giving them the resources that they need. There hasn't really been this realization that this threat was real until very recently.
LEMON: Are authorities trying to prove something tonight, that they're on top of it? We're seeing a lot of raids going on or do they happen and we don't focus on them because there's no plot?
WEISS: They happen sometimes. Obviously that the cameras are rolling. You're looking at these raids taking place in real-time. We did a piece at the "Daily Beast" this week, and U.S. Counter Terrorism officials, U.S. Intelligence are very disappointed in not just their Belgian counterparts but European Union counterparts. The word used by a CIA operative, it's like dealing with children. They're in a state of denial. Not just about the jihadi threat and infiltration, but the radical milieu that has been cultivated in Europe. In places like Molenbeek in Brussels, you know the French suburbs outside of Paris. These kinds of thing. This has been festering for decades they said. Even before 9/11, and if 9/11 had been 7/7 in London and the Madrid bombings and then Paris were not wake-up calls, we don't know what is.
LEMON: Michael, Paul stand by, because when we come back we much, much more on our breaking news coverage on the anti-terror operations tonight in Brussels. Also why officials fear that ISIS was looking into nuclear capabilities in Belgium. We going to talk about what that means in the ongoing battle with the terrorist group.
LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news. Police in Brussels tonight conducting anti-terror raids. Trying to uncover the network behind the deadly attacks this week. At least six people taken into custody. Back with me now, Paul Cruickshank and Michael Weiss. So, Paul, why do officials fear they ISIS is looking into nuclear capabilities in Belgium?
CRUICKSHANK: On the 26th of November, a couple of weeks after the Paris attacks, they arrested what they believe and allege is a key planner behind the Paris attacks. Mohamed Belkaid at his residence in Brussels. When they searched that residence, they found more than ten hours of video surveillance footage of a Belgian official working at a nuclear site. This obviously raised the alarm bells. Why would the Paris attack cell have this video surveillance footage, at which they had recorded on some sort of camcorder of this official? Were they wanting to perhaps aspire to launch an attack on a nuclear facility in some way to get a lot of international headlines, even if they couldn't get inside? Were they even trying to gain access in a sensitive nuclear site for some sort of aspirational plan to retrieve some of the materials inside there. The Belgian official, frankly, who have seen them, and reviewed this video surveillance footage, do not know what they were planning. But in the wake of that Brussels attack on Tuesday, they evacuated nonessential staff from two nuclear facilities in Belgium, which shows they were rather concerned.
LEMON: What are your sources telling you about the potential targets, Michael?
WEIS: I've heard that Germany is a big target right now. That's from recent ISIS defectors. U.S. intelligence says they're picking up a lot of chatter for Spain and Italy, Spain for Islamic historic reasons. Italy, principally because of the proximity to Libya and also Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has said, "If we had our druthers we will conquer Rome." I've also heard that they're about to start using women as suicide bombers, so this would be the sort of black widow phenomenon for ISIS. Something that they haven't done before.
LEMON: What do you think of the State Department's warning for American's traveling in Europe?
WEISS: I'd take it seriously.
LEMON: You would. You said you're for it?
WEISS: No, not right now. Not to the countries that I named.
LEMON: And again, name those counties for us.
WEISS: France, Germany, Italy, Spain --
LEMON: The U.K., Belgium.
WEISS: The U.K. because after Paris they put out a propaganda video with the gun site over David Cameron's head and said essentially, you're next. And there's been a lot of chatter about an eminent attack in London. Now I think London is probably a little more secure than the previous countries I mentioned. But I'm terrified. I told my wife don't travel abroad and she has to for work.
LEMON: You mentioned all of the countries, or most of the countries that Americans travel to. That people want to go to.
WEISS: Yes, and that's exactly the point.
LEMON: Do you agree?
[22:20:00] CRUICKSHANK: Well, look, I mean I'm European, it's my home.
LEMON: He's got no choice.
CRUICKSHANK: I got no choice. But from a stay away status, but from a statistical point of view, you ask me, I'm lucky to be you have to be spectacularly unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. But those mostly focused on the We think about them a lot. What ISIS has achieved is to strike fear in Europe right now. The publics of the various European countries are losing confidence in their governments and security services to protect them because these terrorist attacks keep on getting through, Paris, Brussels, where is going to be next? A lot of concern about all of that. A lot of concern as well about social cohesion in Europe. Because what ISIS is trying to do is to create a backlash against the Muslim community in the West because they think that that could be a big recruiting tool for them if there is a very large backlash if you have a string of these attacks, it could lead to the sort of rise of far right movements across the west.
LEMON: Go ahead, Michael.
WEISS: Yes. They've made use of Donald Trump and the statements he's made. There's a pro-ISIS cleric who essentially endorsed Donald Trump for president. In Europe they would love to see Marine Le Pen because president of France. Groups like Jobbik in Hungary, far right as Paul was saying. Xenophobia is their stock and trade at this point. Build a wall, keep Muslims out, because for them if the choice is the land of disbelief, and the land of Islam. And only they represent the land of Islam. If you are a Muslim living in the land of disbelief it is your religious and moral obligation to kill the kufr. It doesn't have to be with Kalashnikov's NTATP. Pick up a rock smash his head. Get in your car drive him over. That's what the spokes of ISIS, al-Adnani has said two years ago. And again, they're putting this emphasis on foreign operations now. That's where they really want to wage battle.
LEMON: You said in the last segment that U.S. officials were frustrated with not just Belgian officials, but all over Europe. So then what can U.S. officials do to help? Not only Belgium, but European --
WEISS: There's very little U.S. officials can do to help those countries. Those countries have to sort it out for themselves. We're overtaxed here. It is true that the ISIS threat of trained operatives coming over -- San Bernardino is different case. Because that's inspired. Trained operatives coming from Syria or Iraq to the United States, there's an ocean that separates them, I think our counter- terrorism and intel does a slightly better job than Europe does. In fact that we just don't have this phenomenon of [16:32:09] Muslim communities that are essentially ghettoized, not well integrated. Muslim communities inform. They see something, they say something. There's a guy playing with fertilizer in his mother's basement they're going to make a phone call to the police. This stuff doesn't happen in Europe that frequently. That's the problem.
LEMON: Thank you both. Great conversation. I appreciate it.
Up next, in the wake of the deadly Brussels attacks, Ted Cruz slams Donald Trump saying, he doesn't know much about foreign policy.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:26:51]LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news. U.S. intelligence warning that ISIS is planning multiple plots in Europe. The deadly attacks in Brussels making national security a key issue in the presidential election. Let's discuss now. Alan Dershowitz is the author of "Taking a stand, my life and the law" and foreign policy analyst, Rula Jebreal here as well. Hello to both of you, Alan first. A Democratic and Republican responses to Brussels. It really couldn't be more different. On one side there's Ted Cruz and Donald Trump calling for torture and increased surveillance of Muslim neighborhoods. On the other side there's President Obama and Hillary Clinton saying that we shouldn't give into fear. And that our current approach is working. Who has the right idea here?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR, "TAKING A STAND: MY LIFE AND THE LAW": I don't think either of them is right. They're both extreme points of view. I don't think we should be using torture or surveillance of Muslim communities. But we have to up our game. We have to have better intelligence. We have to strike the appropriate balance between preventing terrorism and not reducing our civil liberties. We have to look it the experience of other countries and do a better job in protecting our airports. We have to do a better job trying to anticipate but without diminishing civil liberties. It's doable but it's difficult.
LEMON: Rula Jebreal, which is the smarter approach politically, you think?
RULA JEBREAL, FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST, AUTHOR, "MIRAL": Look, if your first defense is actually your allies and your Muslim communities, you kind of undermine them. What Mr. Trump and Mr. Cruz are actually saying building walls, there's no wall big enough to actually to keep internet out or to keep radicalization out. I think Mr. Trump live, you know, he's an analog man living in a digital area. He doesn't understand even how radicalization works. He doesn't understand that can you be inspired by what ISIS said. The battleground will be in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Libya, however, you have to work on prevention here and cooperation. How many Muslim communities around the world have sent foreign fighters? You have none of that or few of that in the United States. There's a reason, because they feel American first and foremost.
LEMON: Go ahead, Alan.
DERSHOWITZ: I agree. I think that's right. I think we have to try to create alliances. I think we have to create a very strong incentive on the part of people who may know of any terrorist activities to turn them in. That's not happening in Brussels. That's not happening in Paris. That's probably not happening in London and we have to make sure we emphasize the fact that the vast, vast majority of Muslims in the United States are well integrated into America. They are students of mine at Harvard. I celebrate Ramadan with them. We have to build bridges, but we also have to be very, very tough when we find somebody who is likely to be engaged in terrorist activities. We have to make sure we have appropriate surveillance, no any kind of profiling of individuals based on race or religion, but based on history and background and travel plans and everything else that we can gather against them.
We should not be afraid of gathering intelligence on people as long as it's done within the constraints of the fourth amendment. I think we can do it. Our fourth amendment provides for reasonableness, not absolute prohibitions.
[22:30:00] We are not locked in the way Brussels was locked in to some very foolish constraints on the ability of their services to conduct raids when necessary and to conduct intelligence operations we can have both, safety, security and also consistent with our human rights and civil liberties.
LEMON: Rula, I want you to respond to this, but I think this is good for you to hear before you respond. Just after 9/11 Hillary Clinton spoke with ABC's Sam Donaldson. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think everyone recognizes we have to tighten security. We have to do whatever it takes to keep our people safe.
SAM DONALDSON, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Including profiling, senator?
CLINTON: Well, I think we have to do whatever it takes, Sam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So was she right then, or is she right now, Rula?
JEBREAL: Look I would not go to the debate. I think Secretary Clinton evolved on many issues, let's put it this way. I hope she evolved on this. I am actually against racial profiling. People from around the world ran away from police states and now we have candidates who wants to turn the United States into an oppressive police state. This is not only preposterous. This is not the 21st century we belong to. We have so many hyphenated, African-American, I am an Arab-American, Alan is actually a Jewish-American, what are the things that unite us?
JEBREAL: That we are all Americans and we are all equal under the law, under the legality. Guess what, when have a terrorist, whether he's an Arab or whether he's a white supremacist who in a church and starts shooting people. You have to treat them as criminals.
LEMON: But really, you have to say you don't see that to the degree that you're seeing now.
DERSHOWITZ: But I think there's an enormous difference between profiling and racial profiling. Profiling is a very good tactic, trying to find out as much as we can about a person's individual profile, namely live travel history, ideology, whether or not they belong to any radical groups, whether or not they have made statements on the internet which show a disposition. Profiling is a very good thing. And we should --
JEBREAL: That's part of the prevention, Alan. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about racial profiling. I'm against profiling people because they are Jews, or they are Muslims or black or white. There another thing that I think --
DERSHOWITZ: We're not disagreeing. JEBREAL: We need to understand these candidates have actually foreign
policy advisers and we didn't even mention them. Some of them are Islamophobes.
LEMON: How do you do that when you have the people who are doing attacks who are Muslim? Who are doing the attacks in Brussels and in Paris they're Muslim. How do you conduct that without profiling someone racially or by a religion?
JEBREAL: How do you think they prevented many of the attacks that are taking place actually as we speak in the United States and the U.K. You have counter extremists --
LEMON: Aren't you zeroing in on a person's religion and a person's race? That's what profilers do. We have profilers on the show all the time. We have FBI profiles, police profilers. You're zeroing in on someone.
JEBREAL: You are not profiling an entire community because this community -- it's like what Ted Cruz said about patrolling an entire community. That is not only against the law, that is not about what America is about --
LEMON: What is a Muslim community though in America?
LEMON: It's the Upper Eastside, it's the Upper Westside.
JEBREAL: Fear is not an American value. Hope is. I'm sorry to say that.
DERSHOWITZ: Let's be very clear --
LEMON: Go ahead, Alan.
DERSHOWITZ: Let's be very clear. It's not against the law. Perhaps it should be. But it's not against the law what Ted Cruz suggested. The Supreme Court has said specifically that can you have that kind of intrusion into a community as long as you don't violate their fourth amendment right. It may not be a smart thing to do. Look, one persons background including -- please don't cut me off like you always do. Let me just finish.
JEBREAL: I never do that, Alan. I think you are mixing me with someone else.
LEMON: Let him finish.
DERSHOWITZ: Using a person's background which includes ethnicity, includes religion, includes racial factors, but doesn't limit itself to that. Looks at a variety of factors but doesn't exclude a person's ethnicity is the way profiling can operate properly within the constitution and within American values. But we have understood that terrorism is conducted by a wide variety of people from different backgrounds, but certain terrorist acts of certain kinds are committed more frequently by members of some communities than by others. And we can't ignore that fact in deciding how to create a profile. That's an expert matter. That should be done by people with experience and it shouldn't be based on kind of ideology, it should be based on what is most effective. I think what's most effective is broad profiling, looking at the person as entire history and background and I think that can be a very effective tool in preventing terrorism.
JEBREAL: Look, Alan, when you have Ted Cruz who has his national security adviser, somebody like Frank Gaffney, who is a certified Islamophobe, who called President Obama a Muslim, who called Grover Norquist, who is a Republican, a Muslim. Who think that the whole government is about to be infiltrated with Muslims.
[22:35:03] So you understand that Ted Cruz is actually misguided on these issues, is following the wrong guy and the wrong policies. But you have other people like Trump, who is advised by a guy, Walid Phares, who used to advise a war lord in Lebanon during the civil war, who committed atrocities. So I have concern about our national security in the hands of these two guys. You are right that we need preconvention surveillance, but surveillance have to be not against an entire community. It can be individually against people that I think law enforcement has serious suspects about.
LEMON: I've got to get to a break. Hold your thought, Alan. I'll let you respond on the other side. We'll be right back.
We're following breaking news tonight. Anti-terror raids across Brussels. Authorities looking for evidence and two terrorist who could still be on the run. The deadly attack impacting the elections. Back with me now Alan Dershowitz and Rula Jebreal. Alan, you were going to respond to Rula talking about monitoring certain communities.
[22:40:00] DERSHOWITZ: Well, we had terrible experience in the Second World War in monitoring an entire community. Confining them, profiling them, even though not a single Japanese American had ever committed an act of espionage and sabotage. So I think everybody understands that we can't do that. The real question is, can we take ethnicity into account as one of many factors? The Supreme Court has said we can do that when it comes to affirmative action. But what I'd like to ask our other guest is whether she thinks that a profile that includes that the fact that a person is a Muslim or a person goes to a particular Mosque, or a person has had another kind of religious background. Would that do you think be appropriate as one of several factor to be considered in creating a profile?
JEBREAL: I think the Europeans as we look, and I lived in Europe, and obviously I was raised in the Middle East, Alan, and we all ran away. Many people ran away from countries that used to persecute people based on ethnicity, race, religious, sex, sexual orientation or faith. We ran away from these kind of cultures. So a criminal is a criminal, whether he's white, black, Latino, African-American, Jew, in the eyes of the law, whether he's O.J. Simpson -- LEMON: Rula, I don't think you're answering his question, though. I
don't think answering his question. Because he's saying what if you said that someone is Muslim as part of the profile.
JEBREAL: If he, for example, travels to Syria multiple times, this is the intelligent -- I think the agencies, all the intelligence agencies that were put this place after 9/11, actually as we speak, already profile people before they come into this country. I mean, I went to the U.S. embassy multiple times. How many interviews I had to go through and they were very clear. Where did you travel? Where did you go? Who did you see? Our agencies work very well when it comes to know not only profiling, to understand the background check we are looking at. For example, if somebody went to Syria multiple times, in the case of Belgium and France, many of these kids went to Syria and guess what, when their parents reported to the authority, the authority did not care about that.
LEMON: Rula, how are authorities supposed to do their jobs when there's one common factor? Are they supposed to ignore that common factor?
JEBREAL: Which is? That all of them are radicalized.
LEMON: Yes, that everyone is radicalized and it's radicalized Islam. It's a bastardization of a religion.
JEBREAL: There is something called taccia (ph), which is basically some of these radicals, the Tsarnaevs brothers. Look at their example. When they were in jail, they were arrested for petty crimes. And we understood that Belgium also they were arrested for petty crimes. Prosecution trumps. This were they get radicalized actually inside jail. They went out of jail, they shaved their beards and they actually started going out with women, drinking alcohol and all of that. If you are monitoring what their saying. That's why you need a community who understands radicalization, understands counter extremists and understand the kind of cryptic language that they are using. That's why the Muslim community is your first line of defense.
LEMON: Hang on Alan, hold on. So I've worked in local news forever, every night. Police are looking for a black male, 5 foot whatever, a white male such and such doing this. Why is religion different? Police are looking for, investigators are looking for Islamic radicalist or a Muslim -- why is that off the table?
JEBREAL: I'm not saying that. What you're saying something else. That when you were young as an African-American man, if there is a criminal that came from Chicago, the police would stop you because what you share with him is the color of the skin. So what's happen in this country --
LEMON: But I'm not 5'6". I'm 6 feet tall.
JEBREAL: That's why we have police --
LEMON: If they're looking for a black guy or white guy or Asian guy, why is it different if they're looking for a Muslim or Islamic guy? Why is that different?
JEBREAL: I'm sorry, maybe I think there is something here that is missing, but no one should demonize you, criminalize you or dehumanize you because you're black. And some black man --
LEMON: I don't think that's dehumanization. The reality of it is there was a black male who was a certain type that is --
JEBREAL: I think we are lost in translation here. Give me a chance to answer. Alan, just one second. I think here there is a basic issue. If you are -- if you have real suspicion or you have a real suspect and you're following that lead, you have to follow it to the end, whether his friends, the people he came in contact with, whatever you have to do but inside of the legal system, you're allowed to do it. But if you're telling me you would start monitoring people based on how they look or because they are praying, then I have a problem with that.
LEMON: OK, go ahead, Alan.
[22:45:00] DERSHOWITZ: Let me ask a specific question. How about prioritizing law enforcement and making sure that we have undercover agents and we have surveillance that are prioritized in communities in which there is a greater likelihood that radicalization will occur? So if there's a limited amount of money to be spent on, for example, creating undercover agents, that right now it would be a wise idea to spend that money putting infiltrators into radical mosques, into Muslim communities that have a history of radicalism, rather than putting them into Episcopalian churches or reformed Jewish synagogues that have no history of radicalism. Would that be OK? Prioritizing law enforcement in certain areas over other areas based on the history of those communities. Would that be OK?
JEBREAL: Alan, let me tell you something. Some of the most extreme --
DERSHOWITZ: You're not answering.
JEBREAL: No, no, I'm answering. Give me the chance, give me some time. I'm not in court. I'm not a criminal.
LEMON: We're only on TV and only have a certain amount of time.
JEBREAL: Let's do it. So, Alan, I think the overwhelming majority of the people who committed atrocity is in the West Bank, who killed a baby this summer, burned him alive, came to Brooklyn. Do you prioritize actually monitoring all or infiltrating with informants -- which I think already the agencies are doing as we speak? I prioritize prevention.
DERSHOWITZ: That's a very good question. Let me answer that. In Israel there has been terrorism by some ultra-orthodox Jews, radicals who live in the West Bank. And Israelis SHIMBET, the secret service, has in fact profiled and if you are an extremely radical orthodox Jew who belongs to groups that advocate terrorism, yes, they have profiled them and they prevented some acts of terrorism against Arab communities by extremist Jews. So there is sometimes the opportunity to use in this case one's Jewish heritage background. So I do think that you have to look at the history and the culture and where things are happening. In the west bank you would look at a person's Jewishness and in the United States you might look into certain mosques as well.
JEBREAL: Not discrimination, Alan.
LEMON: Thank you guys that's the last word. Thank you sorry. One quick note about the Brussels terror attacks that tell you about. American Airlines reminds that neither of the bombings happened in proximity to their counter at the Brussels airport. And coming up this is not the first time we have seen siblings working together in terrorist operations. We're going to talk about this strange phenomenon next.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:01:42] LEMON: A pair of terrorist brothers dead, killed while carrying out the attacks in Brussels. And this is not first time we've seen siblings acting together as part of a terrorist plot. Joining me now is, Mia Bloom, the author of "Dying to Kill: The Allure of Suicide Terror." Hi, Mia good to see you. I wish it was under better circumstances. Let's talk about all these brother. The Bakraouis, a fifty pattern of terrorist brothers we saw with the Tsarnaev brothers in Boston, and the Kouachi brothers who carried out the Charlie Hebdo attach. What makes brothers so recruit-able and sought after?
MIA BLOOM, AUTHOR, "DYING TO KILL: THE ALLURE OF SUICIDE TERROR"; You know, this idea of recruiting siblings together is as old as the hills. I was able to show in this primer that we wrote in 2013 after Tsarnaev, that that the provisional IRA used to do it with brother and with sister teams going back to 70s and 80s. So this isn't new. I think it's just something that's more obvious because many of the jihadi groups are not only recruiting the entire family, but they are using in the same operation people who are related. Because in a high-risk mission you need someone can you trust and someone you have confidence in, and this is how they operate. Because they know that you're going to trust no one more than a member of your own family.
LEMON: Is there something different about the dynamics of brothers and their relationship that makes them targets to becoming radicalized?
BLOOM: You know, generally except for in ISIS, these twin sisters, the Halane sisters, these Somali British women. For the most part every time you have siblings, you'll going to have one who's older and one who's younger. But the pattern we have observed is that the older sibling pulls the younger one in and the younger one can be considerably younger. But we know from the Tsarnaev trial that that's what Dzhokhar Tzarvaev accused his older brother of doing. Of having manipulating him. We don't know if it's so much of a manipulation, as perhaps, you know, with the sibling rivalry or the fact that the older brother or the older sister is on a pedestal that maybe the young are sibling looks up to them. LEMON: When these attacks occur, Mia, many find it difficult to
believe that other family members or other in the tightknit community weren't aware of the terrorist plot. What do you think of that?
BLOOM: You know, we have a lot of data that shows that and then the opposite of that. You know, sometimes, especially with suicide bombing operations and we've seen this with Palestinian suicide bombers, they separate them from the family for weeks or months ahead of time for fear that the family may talk them out of it if they find out about the mission. So it is conceivable that the families don't know. But also know that ISIS in particular has been recruiting entire families. So it is likely that people who are close to them are aware of it.
This is one of the reasons why I've always said when we see women, the likelihood is that there is a male member of the family who was involved in the terrorist group first. So we have to be very wary. If someone is involved in terrorism, we have to look at their family. We can't treat their family immediately at perpetrators, because the family may be a great resource. And we know that, for example, mothers can be a bulwark against extremism and getting their kids out. But we have to be careful because these family ties run deep.
[22:55:00] LEMON: Mia bloom, always great to have you on. Thank you very much, appreciate your perspective.
BLOOM: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: When we come back, the latest on the anti-terror raids in Brussels tonight, and the manhunt for terrorist suspects still on the run. Plus, has Donald Trump finally gone too far, tweeting attacks on Ted Cruz's wife, Heidi? Cruz certainly thinks so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave Heidi the hell alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The breaking news coming from Brussels. Police there arrest at least six people tonight in anti-terror raids across the city. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. This comes amid fears of possible new terror attacks in Europe. This investigator say ISIS has multiple plots in the final planning stages. Also ahead tonight, the personal attacks in the republican campaign getting nastier and reaching a boiling point. It's certainly a busy hour ahead hear on CNN tonight. So let's get to the latest on the anti-terror raid in Brussels. CNN's Senior International Correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh is there. Nick.