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John Boehner calls Ted Cruz "Lucifer"; "The Indianapolis Star" Takes Aim at Donald Trump; Coach Bobby Knight Endorses Donald Trump. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 28, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: You just saw the extraordinary story of the end of the Cold War on "The Eighties." You know what else happened in the '80s? This.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW HOST: This sounds like political presidential talk to me. And I know people have talked to you whether or not you would want to run. Would you ever?
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Probably not. But I do get tired of seeing the country ripped...
WINFREY: Why would you not?
TRUMP: I just don't think I really have the inclination to do it. I love what I'm doing. I really like it.
WINFREY: Also doesn't pay as well, does it?
TRUMP: No. But, you know, I just probably wouldn't do it, Oprah. I probably wouldn't. But I do get tired of seeing what's happening with this country and if it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Very interesting.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
That was then and this is now. You're looking live at Donald Trump's California rally tonight. We're going to bring you that as it happens.
And in a moment, I'm going to talk to one of Trump's biggest supporters, a man who is also known for, let's say, his big personality, legendary basketball coach, Bobby Knight.
Meanwhile, another crazy night on the campaign trail to tell you about. John Boehner calls Ted Cruz Lucifer and Jeb Bush says he won't even think about voting for Donald Trump.
So, let's begin with CNN's Jason Carroll, shall we, at a Donald Trump rally in California this evening. Good evening, Jason. Trump just arrived in California, a must-win state for him. What are we expecting tonight?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A must win, you're absolutely right, Don. One hundred seventy two up for grabs in the state. You're absolutely right. Definitely is a must-win.
In terms of what we're expecting, perhaps of what we heard just earlier today will give us some indication. We heard some in the crowd, already chanting "build a wall, build a wall, build a wall." And if history is, any indication what we heard as some of these previous rallies that we've been to, and as you know, I've been to a lot.
Expect Donald Trump to talk about that wall, especially here in the State of California. The issue of illegal immigration, a sensitive issue, a divisive issue, a key issue.
So, expect that to be on tap for tonight. Also expect him to keep stepping up his criticisms of Ted Cruz. We heard it in Indiana. The "lyin' Ted" references. Expect to hear more of that here as well when things get underway, Don.
LEMON: You know, we are just days away from Indiana, Jason, how is Donald Trump feeling about winning there?
CARROLL: Well, you know what is interesting about that, when you heard what the Indiana star said, the paper there calling him, quote, "a disaster in the making, a danger not only to the United States but to the world," saying that Kasich and Clinton are the best choices out of a field, of a disappointing field of presidential candidates.
But even having said that, Donald Trump remaining just as defiant as ever. Still lashing out at Ted Cruz saying that he is the better candidate and actually criticizing Cruz for picking a running mate when he says mathematically he has no path to the nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, what does he do? He now goes out and gets Carly, who, who left the race because she had no votes, she had nothing. And that's OK. She's a nice woman. But it's not going to help. It's not going to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Trump also telling the crowd there in Indiana, if he would win there, he says, basically it's going to be over. Well, it won't be over. Still has to win here still in the State of California, once again, 172 delegates up for grabs here.
Cannot do without the state, but certainly if he got a win in Indiana, it would give him more momentum heading into this primary here in the State of California still happen on June 7th, Don.
LEMON: Jason Carroll, out on the campaign trail in Costa Mesa, California tonight. Jason, thank you very much.
Indiana's best newspaper takes aim at Donald Trump just days ahead of the primaries. And former House Speaker John Boehner wage into the republican race slamming Ted Cruz with some pretty colorful language.
I want to talk about this now with Barry Bennett, an adviser to Trump's campaign, and also Ron Nehring, the California chairman for the Cruz campaign.
Interesting stuff happening today, gentlemen. Thank you for joining us.
Barry, to you first. Trump needs a win in Indiana. Let's talk some more about what the Indianapolis Star just put out. They are blasting Donald Trump and saying this, and here's a quote from it. "Is that going to be the road block to Trump taking the Hoosier state?"
Look at this. They say, "A president Trump would be a danger to the United States and the world." What do you think? A road block?
BARRY BENNETT, TRUMP'S ADVISOR: No. I think it's one more liberal editorial board in America. I don't think. They haven't persuaded too many Indiana voters against voting for republican governors who they have always opposed.
LEMON: So, you're not concerned about that at all?
BENNETT: No. No.
LEMON: Ron, here's what the former speaker John Boehner -- he's making some news today and he is not holding back when it comes to Ted Cruz. I want you to take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOEHNER, FORMER U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: Lucifer in the flesh. I have as many democrat friends as I have republican friends; I get along with almost everybody. But I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:05:12] LEMON: Lucifer in the flesh and he's never worked with a more miserable SOB? Then, I mean, John Boehner is not messing words, Ron.
RON NEHRING, TED CRUZ'S NATIONAL CAMPAIGN MANAGER: God, you know, I just want to say that over and over again. Because the more that Senator Cruz is recognized as being the candidate who's challenged the Washington cartel, who's challenge the leadership inside the both sides in Washington, the better Senator does. So maybe we can get him to say that a couple of more times. It's only helping. It's only helping. LEMON: Barry, why are you laughing?
BENNETT: I mean, they seem to find rays of sunshine in everything. But, you know, it's pretty dismal right now. They, you know, lost every county in all five states.
You know, they are losing in Indiana, they are losing in California. You know, John Boehner, it's no secret that John Boehner doesn't like Ted Cruz. You can find the second or third, or fourth and probably 400 in Washington for what John Boehner said about Ted Cruz.
LEMON: Here's what Ted Cruz how he responded today. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When John Boehner calls me Lucifer, he's not directing that at me. He's directing that at you. What Boehner is angry with me for is not anything I've said to him. I haven't said much of anything. What Boehner is angry with me for is standing with the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Barry, is that what Ted Cruz is doing, standing with the American people?
BENNETT: Well, so far he's stood with about 25 percent of republican primary voters. I don't think he's standing with the American people.
I mean, Ted talks a good game about his Washington experience but in his six years here, coming up on six years, he really hasn't changed anything.
But, you know, he made a lot of enemies, picked a lot of fights, some of them unnecessarily. And he's, you know, he's very unpopular guy in the Senate and in the House.
LEMON: Ron, I can hear the big sighs you there but let me get this question in before you respond. Why is it that it seems, Ron, that we hear over and over these sorts of insults about Ted Cruz? I mean, it's like Ted Cruz is applying for jobs and all of his references are saying, don't hire this guy.
NEHRING: Well, it's just amazing that, you know, the 202 area code is not thrilled with Senator Cruz becoming president of the United States. Like that's a real news flash.
I mean, one thing is clear about this season is that the American people are fed up with the existing leadership in Washington, D.C. both in Congress and in the White House. And they're demanding real change and Senator Cruz from the moment he arrived in the U.S. Senate has been challenging the establishment leadership in Washington. He's been challenging the way things are getting done.
And you know, if endorsements coming out of, you know, the 202 area code really counted for anything in this race, we'd have someone else who would be the republican nominee right now and those people aren't running anymore.
So, clearly this is a changed election and the difference between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz is that Ted Cruz has been challenging that leadership in Washington while Donald Trump has been very busy funding, you know, liberal democrats.
You know, Donald Trump is in California right now. And I wonder how his supporters would -- or are going to take to the fact that Donald Trump funds the top three democrat elected officials in California.
He's been funding Governor Jerry Brown, he's funding Lieutenant Gavin Newsom, both of them democrats and the leading democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate, Kamala Harris, has also been the recipient of funding from Donald Trump.
So, why does Donald Trump purport to be a conservative republican and yet, generously opens up his checkbook to defeat candidates and to elect the candidates who the Republican Party is trying to defeat all the time. Now this man purports to, you know, be the leader of the...
LEMON: Barry, do you want to respond to that?
NEHRING: ... give me a break.
BENNETT: I mean, they don't like anybody in 202 area code unless of course they've endorsed them. Like Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney or all these guys say they can't wait to stand on...
LEMON: What about -- that he is supporting -- that he is supporting liberal democrats?
BENNETT: You know, there's no secret that over his lifetime. He's supporting a lot of people, he gives a lot of donations. He's not a liberal democrat. Just how many times do I say it, Ron, it's just not true.
NEHRING: Well, he's not been -- this is not over his life time. This is recently. This is recently.
BENNETT: Like when.
NEHRING: People like Jerry Brown, a liberal democratic governor of...
NEHRING: He's funded $14,000 has gone to Jerry Brown, to Gavin Newsome, and Kamala Harris.
LEMON: When was that, when was that, Ron?
NEHRING: This was for Gavin Newsom for governor, Jerry Brown's campaign.
LEMON: How long ago was that?
NEHRING: A couple of years. What, like it doesn't matter?
LEMON: But the way you said it, though, honestly, the way you said it, it seems like he's out there campaigning and supporting them now. You're talking about something in the past.
NEHRING: Well, there's a big difference. But there's a big difference.
LEMON: But in actuality he has responded to that. But, go on. He has responded to supporting. He said, he even said that he has supported Hillary Clinton on that one, Ron.
NEHRING: There -- well, he's written seven checks to Hillary Clinton. There's a big difference between Ted Cruz who has been fighting for conservative principle his entire career, versus Donald Trump who has made a career out of funding liberal democrats including the top three democratic elected officials in California.
BENNETT: Never given to any republicans at all, right?
NEHRING: The top -- the top three democrat-elected officials, Donald Trump sees fit to write checks.
[22:10:00] LEMON: Go ahead, Barry.
BENNETT: He gave big checks to John Boehner, too. I bet you don't like that either.
NEHRING: Well, it's really interesting because he was writing checks to John Boehner's super PAC at the same time he's writing checks to Nancy Pelosi.
I mean, if that isn't the clearest evidence of Donald Trump has no fundamental beliefs whatsoever, I don't know what is. You fund democrats and republicans at the exact same time. Zero principles whatsoever.
Donald Trump is a liberal democrat who says the things that he thinks that conservatives want to hear and it's proven over his track record of giving money to both sides.
LEMON: I'm about to speak to coach Bobby Knight who endorsed Donald Trump. Howard Dean told MSNBC that endorsements he say don't mater. But an endorsement from coach Knight is a different story and he said this one really matters, especially in Indiana. How is Ted Cruz going to compete with that in Indiana, Ron? Can he?
NEHRING: Well, we're in Indiana. We're in Indiana right now. We had wonderful events today. We're taking the campaign directly to the voters of the State of Indiana. And the response to naming Carly Fiorina to join the ticket has just been absolutely electric.
We spent the entire day on the bus going from one campaign event to another. The response has been terrific. And ultimately, it's the people of the State of Indiana who are going to have their say. Finally, they got to have their say in this process and the response has been electric.
LEMON: OK. I've got to go. And, Barry, I'm sure you're very happy about the coach's endorsement.
BENNETT: Love having that.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you very much, gentlemen. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
When we come right back, my exclusive one on one with one of Donald Trump's biggest supporters, one of his biggest supporters, basketball legend Bobby Knight lays out his case for Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY KNIGHT, INDIANA UNIVERSITY BASKETBALL COACH: You've to be tough, you've got to be smart, and you've got to win. And this man, certainly Donald Trump, this man certainly epitomizes those ingredients and I think that's what we have been lacking for some time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: One of Donald Trump's biggest supporters, a basketball legend, Indiana Hoosiers coach Bobby Knight. Listen to what he says about his candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KNIGHT: And you'll say to yourselves, each and every one of you, damn it, how soon can I go out and vote for that guy. And I hope that's what you all have to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Joining me now exclusively, coach Bobby Knight, legendary Indiana University basketball coach. Hi, coach. How are you?
KNIGHT: I'm doing good. How about you?
LEMON: I'm doing great. I'm glad that you're here. I have to tell you that Donald Trump called you the, quote, "The greatest endorsement in the history of Indiana." You're a legend. I know a lot of people at that announcement they showed up just to see you. Is Indiana going to go for Trump?
KNIGHT: Well, I would certainly hope so and I think that without any question they will. They gave him a tremendous reception. They listened very well to what he had to say. And I think they understand, as I hope everybody understands that there is no one as well prepared to go into the White House as Donald Trump is.
And I think this goes way, way back. There has never been anybody as well-prepared with what he has done with businesses, what he has resurrected, the thoughts he's had to make something better.
Donald Trump would be the best prepared person ever to enter the White House. And I think that the folks of Indiana feel that way.
LEMON: Yes. You know, you sort of conveyed that sentiment today when you were with Donald Trump because he was up on stage. You were with him today and he was talking about being presidential and you said something that a lot of people might find a bit controversial. Let's listen and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KNIGHT: I'll tell you who they said wasn't presidential. I don't even know what the hell presidential means. But they told him that he wasn't presidential. And that guy they told all these people that wanted to say you're not presidential, that guy was Harry Truman.
And Harry Truman with what he did in dropping and having the guts to drop the bomb in 1944, saved...
... saved billions of Americans lives and that's what Harry Truman did and he became one of the three great president of the United States. And here's a man who would do the same thing because he's going to become one of the four great presidents of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was quite a moment, coach. You say Trump would do the same thing. But, I mean, some of his opponents, quite frankly, and the democrats have criticized Trump for being thin skinned and openly worried about Trump's finger on the button. Do you think that you've helped him today with that?
KNIGHT: I can't tell that. How do I know anything about that? I just think that this is a man that will do everything he can to see that the United States of America is just where it should be.
LEMON: You know, Howard Dean was on MSNBC earlier today, and he said that, generally, endorsements don't really matter that much but he said yours was different. Why do you think that is, coach?
KNIGHT: Well, I don't know. You know, I think I have over the 40 years that I coach had a reputation for being fair, for being honest and for trying to win. And I think the ingredients that are necessary winning in any endeavor and certainly in politics and certainly for the president of the United States are pretty simple.
You've got to be tough, you've got to be smart, and you've got to win. And this man certainly, Donald Trump, this man certainly epitomizes those ingredients. And I think that's what we have been lacking for some time.
You will never under a Trump administration see what happened in Benghazi. That administration, Donald Trump's administration will take care of our service people, take care of all of our people. Whatever they may be doing overseas if they run into problems.
That's how I look at it. That's why I evaluate Donald Trump as the kind of person that will simply take care of America.
LEMON: Some people were surprised that you came out for Donald Trump. Did you approach him or did he approach you, coach?
KNIGHT: I think we just kind of got together. I think he has the willpower, the strength, the characteristics of a president and more than anything I think he has the ability to see what's right and what's wrong and to work to improve things.
[22:20:05] The man has had all kinds of success with businesses all over the world. He's not just a national figure. He's an international figure. And sometimes things have gone wrong for him, also.
He's had to adjust, he's had to come up with some different ideas. He's had to do a little searching and working on how we can best do this thing, whatever it might be.
And I think all of those things are characteristics that are essential for a man who is in charge or a lady who is in charge in whatever the endeavor might be. And I think that, as I've watched him and as I've read about him and as I've been around him, I think he is a man that we can really entrust and really trust on for doing the very best job that can be done in politics here in the United States.
LEMON: Coach, I think it's fair to say that you're a guy, you have a famous temper, there's no secret about that, a lot of people probably see similarities between you and Donald Trump, high energy, supercharged speeches, big personalities. What do you say to that?
KNIGHT: I don't have to say anything to it. It may just be something that exists there. I've always tried to do what was right. I think he's tried to do what was right.
LEMON: A lot of folks in the establishment, establishment republicans, his Trump's rivals, they'd like to say that, you know, they say often he is not a true conservative. What do you say to them?
KNIGHT: You know, I'm not sure what a conservative is. I don't know whether a conservative is a guy that goes to bed too early or maybe doesn't sleep long enough or just what the hell he might be.
I don't know. Maybe he's a guy that -- you know, he just wants to be real quiet. I don't know what a conservative is. You know, but I do know what good people are. And that's where I sit with Donald Trump.
LEMON: Coach, thank you.
KNIGHT: OK. Thank you.
LEMON: That was very interesting. Thank you, coach, again.
Up next, Trump versus Cruz in Indiana. It's a crucial race that could be do or die for Cruz.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're counting down to the Indiana primary on Tuesday. Fifty GOP delegates at stake. So, it's a crucial race for both Donald Trump and for Ted Cruz.
Joining me now is Kayleigh McEnany. Kayleigh, do you ever get any sleep?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No.
LEMON: CN political commentator who is supporting Donald Trump, and Lanhee Chen, former senior adviser to Marco Rubio, and Buck Sexton, CNN political commentator who is supporting Cruz.
So, here we all are. Good to have you on. Lanhee, you first. Donald Trump got what many consider a golden endorsement from Bobby Knight. But today, you know, Knight said something very controversial. Let's listen to it one more time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KNIGHT: And Harry Truman with what he did in dropping and having the guts to drop the bomb in 1944 saved...
... saved billions of American lives. And that's what Harry Truman did and he became one of the three great presidents of the United States. And here's a man who would do the same thing because he's going to become one of the four great presidents of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, what's your response, Lanhee?
LANHEE CHEN, FORMER MITT ROMNEY'S POLICY DIRECTOR: Well, I think, Don, if that were a surrogate for any other normal candidate, they would be spending all day and all night trying to walk back those comments.
But it's pretty clear that Donald Trump does not play by the same rules, nor do his surrogates. I think it' pretty outrageous what Mr. Knight said. But look, do I think Donald Trump is going to pay a price for it? Absolutely not.
I think it's par for the course for his campaign. And I think in Indiana, frankly, I think Knight probably is a net positive for Donald Trump, which is all pretty unfortunate. Because, you know, the implication of what Knight said is that Donald Trump is going to have a quick trigger finger on the nuclear button and that should scare all Americans.
LEMON: OK. I want to get everyone's reaction and go around the table here. Because, Buck, you know, to Lanhee's point a lot of people have raised questions about Donald Trump's temperament and concerns about his readiness to become commander-in-chief.
Did today's comments by the coach heighten those concerns?
BUCK SEXTON, THE BLAZE NATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: I don't think so. I'm slow to say anything about coach Knight in case I spend any time in Indiana coming there many times soon.
LEMON: He did admit that I don't know about politics.
SEXTON: He said he didn't know what a conservative is. Look, I think that his endorsement may be helpful in the limited scope of the primary coming up in Indiana. And that said, I don't think people will think about it much longer than that nor they really expect you.
LEMON: Is Lanhee right when any other candidate would have to go, oh, my gosh, I have to explain myself.
SEXTON: Yes. I think -- I think there is truth to that in the sense that part of Trump's brand, part of his message, part of who he is and what his campaign is, is that he never apologizes. And he never apologizes for what he says. He certainly not going to apologize for what a former, I believe, or no longer coach, a former NCAA coach has to say about an issue of history of politics or anything else.
So, he'll just skate along with this and I think it's also true that coach Knight in Indiana is a net positive for the Trump campaign.
LEMON: Yes. Did it make you wince? What did you think?
MCENANY: You know, Bobby Knight is funny. I like him a lot, but he's not on the foreign policy. During Trump's foreign policy teaching...
LEMON: No. He's not.
MCENANY: Right. Noticeably absent from...
LEMON: And you probably say, thank goodness, right. We love coach, but I mean. MCENANY: I love him, but, yes, not on the foreign policy team, and noticeably absent from Trump's speech yesterday was anything about, you know, levying a nuclear weapon. In fact, he talks about reigning in a nuclear weapons and not engaging in nuclear proliferations.
So, you know, this is not -- this is a nothing. It really is a nothing and, you know, I think it's good for Trump not to come out and apologize for this. It's one of the things, like Buck says, people like about him. He doesn't kowtow to the media. He doesn't apologize for things.
SEXTON: And if it was a chief of his foreign policy team it might be -- it might be an issue.
MCENANY: Sure, if he will just question, then yes, but it's not.
LEMON: And if there was any other candidate, I'm sure they -- you guys saw this, right, from The Indianapolis Star? I want to put this up. This is from the Indianapolis Star. I want to get your reaction.
[22:30:00] The paper's editor say, "A president Trump would be a danger to the United States and to the world." Lanhee, you first.
CHEN: Well, you know, look, I think that's right. I think that the problem with Donald Trump, again, demonstrated in that speech yesterday, is that on the one hand you've got him saying, look, we don't want nuclear proliferation, but on the other hand you've got him saying we're going to pull back from our alliances with Korea and Japan which will certainly lead to the nuclearization of both Korea and Japan.
So, it's just tough to say. And beyond the policy, Don, there is a question of temperament and I think that is the big problem. Because if you're sitting in the big chair and you're executing foreign policy the American people have to have a trust and a belief that that person is going to take into account all the information and decide things soberly.
And unfortunately, Mr. Trump hasn't given us an indication that that's what he would do. So, that's the bigger problem beyond the policy incoherent. It's the temperament.
LEMON: Yes. "A danger to the United States and to the world." Kayleigh, those are strong words, those are fighting words, as they say.
MCENANY: They are. But you know, editorial boards across the country hardly have their polls on the nation virtually every newspaper endorse John Kasich from the New York Times on down. And they really are completely out of touch.
They have no idea what the American people want. Meanwhile, Donald Trump, the New York Post just reported, is about to get more votes than any republican candidate ever in primary history. So, editorial votes, I don't think people are taking their marching orders from them. LEMON: OK. I just want to put this. They go on to say this, Buck.
They say, "We were withholding a formal endorsement in either race. Indiana voters can still have a big impact with their ballots Tuesday in halting Trump's march. The best we can hope is that Hoosiers do just that and say no to a candidate who is not merely flawed but is clearly unfit for the office he seeks". They don't like him.
SEXTON: They don't like but they're withholding an endorsement, but they're making sure everyone knows that they hate trump.
LEMON: I don't think they like any of the candidates because they talk about, you know, the candidates they said, "Unfortunately, 320 million voters must choose the next American president from disappointing field of candidates now competing in the democratic and republican primary." So, they don't really like anyone.
SEXTON: I suppose that's an easy position for an editorial team to take. You know, we should have a road scholar navy SEAL with perfect family life and impactable credentials running for president. And I think that's easy for them to say that these are imperfect people.
But look, the notion they would say to Donald Trump as a danger to the world going back first, second to that. That the fact of the matter is, I think that's overblown. And I'm somebody who supports Ted Cruz. But I don't think Donald Trump is a sociopath, he's going to drop nukes on people for no reason. And I think that when people start...
LEMON: I get your point. I get your point. All right. So, Ted Cruz is putting it all on the line in Indiana and with -- and that he's now picked Carly Fiorina. What do you think of this? Will this make a difference?
SEXTON: I think with Fiorina is more likely to be helpful later on. The problem is Indiana is essential and it's now. It will be helpful in California I think. Obviously, Carly Fiorina's ties there and knowing the different congressional districts and knowing the players, the GOP players in California, who, for once, are going to get some attention.
I think it could be helpful for the Cruz campaign and that will be essential even if Indiana goes well. I think it's helpful in the general against Hillary, whom we all know it's the almost certain to be, I mean, she is the democrat nominee at this point. And it's helpful because it makes the Cruz campaign in the short term.
Right now look serious, looks sober on policy, on the substance and on the issues. But in Indiana specifically, I can't point to a constituency that necessarily Carly Fiorina is going to be that helpful with. And if Cruz doesn't win Indiana, all the math shows it looks pretty much impossible that he'll even be able to stop Trump from getting to 1237. So, I think it's a good play when a couple of pieces now -- a couple of moves down the road.
LEMON: All right Stand by everyone here and at home. You see that little box on the right-hand side of your screen there, well, it's whole screen. That is a Trump rally in Costa Mesa, California. Donald Trump about to take the stage. We will bring it to you as it happens. At least part of it. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.
[22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're back now live with breaking news. Pictures of Costa Mesa, California. Front-runner Donald Trump is about to take the stage there. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton shifting their attention to the general and drawing battle lines for the rest of the campaign.
Back with me now, Kayleigh McEnany, Lanhee Chen, and Buck Sexton. As we look at these live pictures we'll take some of Donald Trump as he comes up.
You were saying before the break, you were talking about Donald trump's lead, right, in the latest, Buck, you were in the latest Indiana poll. Forty one to 33 percent versus Ted Cruz. You said if Ted Cruz loses, right, it's pretty much over. I mean, I'll throw this out to Kayleigh or to Lanhee, isn't it pretty much over now mathematically, it's impossible for him to get to 1237 for Ted Cruz?
MCENANY It's absolutely impossible. And he is counting on the second ballot. But here's the thing. Even if he were to win on the second ballot by maneuvering delegates, or getting delegates in Colorado without the vote, he's lost the moral victory.
There's no chance that Ted Cruz wins on the second ballot and gets the momentum and the unity of the party behind him. It's just not going to happen.
LEMON: You don't think it will happen, Lanhee?
CHEN: Well, I think it's going to be very, very difficult. I mean, look, I think what happened last Tuesday gave Donald Trump a big leg up in this race which is not to say that he's got an easy path to 1237. I think he's going to have to work to get there.
And if he doesn't quite get to 1237, the big question is going to be can he convince enough unbound delegates to come with him on the first ballot. I think if it goes beyond the first ballot Donald Trump is in real trouble.
CHEN: But clearly his task is going to be to get as many unbound delegates with him as possible assuming he can't get to 1237 after June 7th.
LEMON: So, again, as I said, I want to make it clear, I said, it's mathematically impossible for him to get to 1237. But that's what he's counting on, Buck, is for -- I don't know, is this a Hail Mary or is this...
SEXTON: It's a question of what the goal of the Cruz campaign is right now, right? They know that they can't get to 1237. The Cruz campaign is fully aware of the fact that that's not going to happen. But because of the way the system is set off. And yes, it is the system.
If he's able to stop Donald Trump and I agree with what's been said, if he's able to stop Donald Trump from winning on the first ballot, then it looks like there's a high probability that he'll have perhaps on the second or third somebody other than Trump.
Hopefully, it will be Cruz, if it's somebody else and the party is completely fractured and included. This has happened by the way, in the past. I mean, the notion and a lot of Trump supporters are saying this, that whoever should have the most in the first ballot has to be the president. It's just historically inaccurate and hasn't been the case. We could talk about it many times...
[22:40:03] LEMON: But Donald Trump hasn't been on the ballot before.
MCENANY: Yes. And that's the difference. We look at exit polls and nearly state, even Wisconsin which Ted Cruz won, a majority of people say whoever has the most popular vote should in fact be the nominee.
National polls reflect this, exit polls reflect this. So, you have to ask yourself like, how in the world do we have to have a unified party without Donald Trump being the nominee.
SEXTON: I mean, the unification of the party under Donald Trump, though, it's going to be quite a task given the way that the Trump campaign has acted for -- against all of the other GOP contenders that have been in there and their supporters.
There's going to be sort of a Trump backlash that I think a lot of the Trump supporters don't think is going to happen.
MCENANY: But Marco Rubio have said...
SEXTON: You know, if people will say, well, Trump doesn't win they are going to walk. Do they really think that all of the Cruz supporters and everyone else is going to say, you know what, we've been -- we've been mistreated and maligned by the Trump supporters for months and months here, let's get behind this Trump thing. The never Trump thing is an entirely a joke. I don't think it is a joke. I think a lot of people are going to walk away.
LEMON: It's the same thing on the democratic side when it comes to Bernie Sanders because a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters say they won't vote for Hillary Clinton whether that happens or not. Go ahead, Lanhee.
CHEN: No, I was just going to say, you know, I don't think that it's a joke. I think there's probably anywhere between, let's call, a quarter to a third of the party that won't go with Trump. I mean, I think that's just the reality of it.
And, you know, a number of folks in this race that Donald Trump has run against have said that they wouldn't support Trump. Now I think some of them will change their opinions. I think they will change their minds. For example, today, Jeb Bush gave himself a little bit of wiggle room there. Now, he would be the last person I would expect to come to Trump. But it seems pretty clear that at least amongst the...
LEMON: You think that was wiggle room?
CHEN: I think so. Oh, yes, I think so.
LEMON: All right.
CHEN: I mean, he said, look, I hope that Donald Trump's not the nominee but he would not outright say, look, I'm not going to vote for him even if he is. I do think it was wiggle room.
LEMON: We're going to play that full interview in the next hour. I don't know if we have just a sound bite of him talking about Donald Trump. We don't -- but we're going to play that full interview coming up just a little bit.
I've got to ask you, what did Ted Cruz ever do to John Boehner? My goodness. Because if you look, and he told, John Boehner did The Stanford Daily this, he said, speaking of Ted Cruz, he said, "Lucifer in the flesh. I have democratic friends. I have democratic friends and republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life."
Ted Cruz has never worked with Boehner. And then he tweeted this. He says, "He never worked with Boehner." And he tweeted this, "Tell me again who will stand up in Washington, Trump, who's Boehner's texting and golfing buddy or Carly and me?"
So, I mean, is Ted Cruz one of the main reasons I am wondering that John Boehner is no longer house speaker? Yes?
MCENANY: I mean, I don't think so. Here's the thing.
LEMON: There's bad blood?
MCENANY: There's definitely bad blood. But it's crazy to me for Ted Cruz to try to act like somehow he's not part of the establishment now and he has Jeb Bush endorsing him and Mitt Romney endorsing him and really establishment as figures endorsing him.
And he's trying to latch on to this Boehner movement to be like, hey, voters, forget that I voted for disenfranchisement in Colorado, forget that I'm playing this delegate game that you guys don't like, forget that I looked like the establishment.
Believe me, John Boehner doesn't like me. I'm no longer part of the establishment. When the narrative for the last few weeks has been, this is an establishment new guy.
SEXTON: It can't be both ways, though, right? If the establishment uniformly hates Ted Cruz which is what people were saying for weeks from a Trump campaign, that all of his colleagues hate him, they all think he's an outsider, he was disrespectful to McConnell in the Senate.
Now it can't be all, he's the establishment guy. He can't be outside. I mean, he can't both simultaneously and I think that's a more fair -- that's a more fair reading of Cruz's situation. Are we?
LEMON: Yes. The thing is, though, Cruz -- I mean, Ted Cruz is one of the main reasons, as I was saying, that Speaker Boehner is no longer the speaker anymore. So, how much of this is real. How much of this like, you know what, screw you guys.
SEXTON: Yes. There is nothing helpful about what John Boehner said in any respect whatsoever.
LEMON: Yes. Let's go now to Costa Mesa, California and Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Thank you.
LEMON: I got you, guys.
TRUMP: Oh, man. This is a lot of people. A lot of people.
This is incredible. We love you. We love you. You better get put on June, remember, June 7th, you better get out. We're returning it around. I want to thank that dude, see what it says, "Latinos for Trump." I love that. Thank you. Thank you.
I love that sign. It's true, too.
So, thank you to everybody. You know, this is a place, I love California, I love this state. Great feelings. You know, we want to bring on some friends. We have some friends, the remembrance project. They were outside. They were taking a picture. I said, come on stage with me for a couple of minutes and these were incredible people.
They lost loved ones to illegal immigration. And they are unbelievable. They've suffered. I've gotten to know them over a period of time and come own over here, folks. Come on.
These are great people. They've become my friends over the last couple of years and they have really suffered. And a great friend of mine, he's really become a great friend of mine, Jamiel Shaw, who is a -- Jamiel, I mean, he had a son who was an incredible, incredible son going to college on a scholarship, he was going to get him on scholarship. Great football player.
And I just want Jamiel representing the group to say a few words and explain what happened and it's tough. It's tough. But your son died with unbelievable purpose because what's happening and when they hear the story, we'll all understand and then we're going to get back to other things including jobs, Jamiel, right?
JAMIEL SHAW, FOOTBALL PLAYER: Right.
TRUMP: All right. Jamiel Shaw. Great friend.
SHAW: Thank you. Thank you. I just want to bring you back to the day that...
LEMON: All right. Donald Trump speaking there in Costa Mesa, a big campaign rally, and now some of his supporters are on stage.
So, again, we were talking about -- we were talking about the no love lost between Ted Cruz and the former speaker of the house. And we'll continue that conversation as well as the rest of the conversation that we're going to have about this.
And also play an interview a little bit later on that has to be with Ted Cruz as well, and Donald Trump. We'll be right back after this quick break. Don't go anywhere, any one.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We are back live now. There you see a Donald Trump rally in Costa Mesa, California. His supporters are on stage speaking. There's a group called Latinos for Trump that he called out earlier. He made reference to. And there Donald Trump is going back to the podium hugging one of his supporters and live aerials of the event there, first with our affiliate KCAL and KCBS in California.
TRUMP: I got to know all of this people and most of these people. All of them actually. And I will tell you, Jamiel just representing the group. They all have a very similar story to tell and people that shouldn't have been here, people that never should have been allowed to come over the border and they come here like it's nothing, they walk through like it's nothing.
And we're going to stop it and we're going to build a wall. We're going to also...
We're going to also...
We can't have this, folks. We don't have a country anymore. You know, I'm looking at the statistics where your crime numbers are so crazy, they are going through the roof. So, we can't have it anymore. Now look, here's the thing.
Now what Jamiel didn't even say, and his boy was amazing, he was just going -- just doing so great. Great student. Great everything. Getting ready to go to college, and every college wanted him. They wanted him for his academics, they wanted him for football.
And when Jamiel saw his boy lying there, he started pounding to sidewalk with his hand. He broke his hand just pounding to sidewalk and it's just like this horrible story and they happen so much. Everybody there has essentially the same end result. They have the same story. They are great people.
These are unbelievable people. I don't even know how they take it. These are great, unbelievable people. We have to stop it. And you know, their lives are so important.
And your relative's lives are so important. Your boys, your girls, all of the people, they did not die in vain, believe me, because it's such an important thing and I just want to thank all of you. You're special, special people. Really brave and just go out and do the best you can.
Let's have a good evening, OK? All right?
We love you. Thank you. Thank you.
Unbelievable people, folks. Unbelievable people. So we're going to do a lot of things in this country. We're going to get our country back to a balance. We're going to -- hey, we want people to come in but they have to come in legally. They have to come in through a process.
We can't be -- we can't be put in this position anymore and it's going to change. It's going to change fast. Look at these crowds of people we're getting no matter where I go.
And I just left Indiana. I'm going back very soon and, frankly, they talk about the same thing even where Indiana is located, you wouldn't think it would be a problem. It's a huge problem. People are coming in, nobody knows where they are coming from.
You know, the Obama administration is taking people in from the migration.
We have people coming in from the Middle East that are brought in and we have no idea who they are. There's no documentation. There's no paperwork. We're putting them all over the country by the thousands and we have no idea what the hell is going to happen. We have no idea.
So, look, folks, we're going to straighten it out. You know, I tell you. I was very honored because this last week -- the border patrol -- these are amazing people. They want to do their job. They are not allowed to do their job. They are told to stand back, don't do your job, stand back, and they endorsed me 15,500 border patrol agents.
And when we let them go to it, they are going to be great even before the wall gets built. But we will build the wall. Mexico is going to pay for the wall. We're going to stop drugs from coming in.
The drugs are poisoning our youth and a lot of other people and we're going to get it stopped. OK? We're going to get it stopped.
[22:55:06] And, I'll tell you this. Let me just tell you because I see it -- I see all the Hispanic signs and the Latino signs and I love the people.
I love the people. African-American signs, I love that sign, by the way.
And we're going to do great with the African-Americans, with the Hispanics, because we're going to bring jobs back to our country. We're going to -- we are going to bring jobs back to this country.
Our jobs have been sucked away like you take candy from a baby, we're not going to let it happen anymore, folks. We're not going to let it happen.
So, we have to be tough. We have to be vigilant. We have to be strong. And I tell this story -- good. Thank you, darling. I love you, too. Look at that that. Great.
But I tell this story and in a way it's a rough, rough story. But this country is so politically correct, we don't get anything, we don't understand anything.
We don't understand what's going on. We don't understand and it's the story of General Pershing. Do you know that story, does anybody know it? It's a rough story and they were having a tremendous -- this is before the First World War. They were having a tremendous problem with really radical Islamic terrorism.
LEMON: We have to take a short break here but we're going to be back with more of Donald Trump. And what former presidential contender Jeb Bush has to say about Donald Trump. We will be right back.
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