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Donald Trump is the Presumptive GOP Nominee; Clinton; Trump is Loose Cannon; New Details on Prince's Last Days; The Digital Revolution of the '80s. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 4, 2016 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So you're looking live at the White House. Just imagine it with Donald Trump living there.
This is "CNN Tonight." I'm Don Lemon. It is a picture that strikes fear in the heart of Democrats and some Republicans as well. Hillary Clinton says a presumptive Republican nominee is a loose cannon. But what would a President Donald Trump really do in his first 100 days and what would a Trump administration mean for the rest of the world?
Plus, chilling new details about the last days of Prince was he addicted to Percocet and did he reach out for help that came too late?
I want to begin though with CNN Chief National Correspondent John King at the magic wall for us. John, how do the numbers look for a Trump- Clinton match up?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Don, Donald Trump says the general election is under way. He enters that general election of a deficit, Hillary Clinton in the lead by a healthy margin, but some opportunities in our polling for Donald Trump.
Let's take a look number at why Hillary Clinton can feel good as to general election starts. It doesn't mean it will last. But as of today, as we speak in early May, she's holding to the gather the Obama coalition. The President won twice, two Electoral College landslides. He did it. These were his numbers among men, on Election Day 2012 Hillary Clinton is doing a little better, among women, she is doing better, among independents, she is doing better, among white voters she is doing better, in the suburbs, she is also even doing a little bit better than President Obama on election day 2012 among nonwhite voters.
So Hillary Clinton says if I can keep the Obama coalition together against Donald Trump, I can win. Is it all bad news for Trump? No. Those demographic numbers show you he has got some work to do. But, there are also some opportunities for Mr. Trump. He says in a state like Michigan, I'm going to recreate those so-called Reagan Democrats, Trumps Democrats, blue-collar workers disillusioned with the Democratic Party on issues like trade.
In our poll Don, nationally, Donald Trump has a five point lead, pretty modest, but a lead over Hillary Clinton on the number one issue for voters, who can best handle the economy. But look at this in the Midwest. Donald Trump knows his path to the presidency runs through the Rust Belt and look at that, 59 to 34 in the Midwest on who is better able to handle the economy. A big advantage for Donald Trump even though he trails Clinton in some other key issues.
So how does that play out on Electoral College map? Let's switch and give a peak. Again, this is Obama-Romney, 332 to 206, a blowout for the Democrats, right? This is where both campaigns start as they look ahead to 2016. Donald Trump says, I can do that, I need to do. No Republican can win without Ohio. And as we just talk about I can do that. Now if Donald Trump could change those three states, it's still not enough, right? Still not enough.
But he thinks he can change Florida as well. That's my second home. In that scenario, I'm not saying its easy it's actually a huge heavy lift, but if Donald Trump can maximize his advantage on the economy and change those three states up here and Florida, well he would be the next president of the United States. Now, is that likely to happen? History says Pennsylvania stays blue and we'll see if that works out or not.
If that happened, look at that, a tie in the Electoral College, 269- 269. Where else would Donald Trump look? He says he can he can win New York. Marked it down skeptic but let's see, never mind we're in May. Let's see what the polling says in June, July, and August. He says he can go out to Wisconsin, maybe Minnesota, maybe a smaller price like Iowa or New Hampshire. Let's watch as it turns out.
Now the flip side, where does Secretary Clinton look? Well, number one, for demographics, she thinks it's possible in Arizona, possible in Georgia. Why does she think that even more so? Now there are some conservative Don who say, let's run a third-party candidate, we can't vote for Clinton, we don't want to vote for Trump. If you get that scenario, a conservative candidate who takes away some of Trump support, Latino turnout is up, it's possible. Hillary Clinton could change Arizona. They're going to look very close at that. It's possible, Georgia in the south, conservatives stay home because of Never Trump.
Hillary Clinton keeps African American turnout up. It's possible that could happen. All of this is hypothetical. But these are this is what the campaigns are going through right now. For Donald Trump, your campaign begins and could end if you can't change the map in the Rust Belt, in the industrial Midwest. If you're Hillary Clinton, your number one priority, defend the Obama coalition states, but look for some opportunities. Here's one here, there's one here, we're in May. Let's see how this plays out as we go through the spring, into the summer, and into what is likely to be a very competitive fall. Don?
LEMON: Thank you John King. I appreciate that. Donald Trump sat down one on one with CNN Wolf Blitzer today. They talked about the voters who just might be the key to the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Let's talk about women voters out there. If you're going to be the president of the United States, you're going to need to do really well with women voters in the general election. Let say ...
TRUMP: And I will.
BLITZER: ... Hillary Clinton -- there is a new CNN poll that is out, shows 61 percent of female voters nationwide, Republicans, Democrats, independents, they say they back Hillary Clinton, only 35 percent of women nationally say they back you. How are you going to change that?
TRUMP: I think it we'll get a change. I think it will change. I think it will change rapidly because women want security. Women want strong military. They want to know they're secure in our nation. Women want women's health issues taken care of. And Hillary is not going to do it like me.
[23:05:00] BLITZER: Let's talk about a general election, Electoral College strategy, getting to 270 Electoral College votes. John McCain couldn't do it, as you well know Mitt Romney couldn't do it. How are you going to do it? What states are you going to put in play that they couldn't influence (ph)?
TRUMP: OK, that's a question I love because something I think that I am better served than anybody. First of all, you see how well I did in New York. Do you agree I did very well in New York?
BLIZTER: But that's a Republicans City.
TRUMP: It doesn't matter.
BLITZER: There's lot of more Democrats ...
And you won basically almost every county in the recent polls, except by the way your own personal home county here in Manhattan?
TRUMP: Which, by the way, is now under review and they think I won that too.
TRUMP: It's called Manhattan. But I won every single county in New York, but I won every county in Pennsylvania, every country in Maryland, I won every country in the five states plus New York which is a pretty good run. And I hear I won every county in Indiana.
BLITZER: The New York State, I'm from Buffalo upstate, you'll do well up there.
TRUMP: Yeah, I did well.
BLITZER: But in the city, in the New York City, had the Democrats ...
TRUMP: I did very well. No, I did very well, it was like 50-50 deal and I think it's going up.
BLITZER: Among Republicans? Among Republicans?
TRUMP: Among Republicans, yeah but -- I had ...
BLITZER: Are you suggesting New York would be in play?
BLITZER: I know you've suggested Michigan and Pennsylvania.
TRUMP: I'm going to win upstate New York by massive numbers. I'll win out on Long Island by massive numbers. I'll win all of the sections that are horribly affected by NAFTA, a Clinton deal.
I will win sections of this city that nobody else could win. Yes, I think New York is in play. And by the way, if New York is in play, and if I won New York, then I win the election. You understand that because of the size.
I'll win Michigan. Michigan is not going to be even contested by any other Republican. They wouldn't even go there. I'll win Michigan because of what has happened. They've sucked all the jobs out of Michigan too. And I'm constantly talking about Michigan with the cars and what's happening. I think I'll win Pennsylvania. I'm sure I'm going to win Pennsylvania.
I'll win Florida which you have to win. I think I'm going to do very well but I'm going to -- I will put state -- I will put states in play that no other Republican will even talk about or go to.
BLITZER: Do you think the general election campaign has already started, you versus Hillary Clinton, that for all practical purposes Bernie Sanders is out?
TRUMP: Well I think what has happened, there's been a flip and I'm even surprised by it. I thought that I'd be going longer and she would be going shorter.
She can't put it away. That's like a football team that can't get the ball over the line. I put it away. She can't put it away. So I thought I'd be out there and she'd be campaigning against me. I didn't realize so, yeah, I'll be campaigning against her while she's campaigning.
BLITZER: So the general election campaign from your perspective starts today?
TRUMP: Essentially started. I mean yeah, it started today. It started actually three months ago when I hit her pretty hard and she went the polls.
BLITZER: In your tone, supposedly more presidential, or will you really go after her? TRUMP: Look, you know, I went to the best school, I'm a smart person,
I did well, you know, I am who I am. I don't like to change. I don't like to really change. Sort of interesting, there was a talk about, will he be presidential? We had 17 people, all smart, one by one, week after week, boom, boom, boom, gone, gone, gone. I don't maybe want to change so much. And I do want to use that same strategy for trade deals. And I want to use that same -- but I feel I'm a presidential person.
BLITZER: The same strategy that you used to get rid of the other Republican candidates you want to use against Hillary Clinton?
TRUMP: I would say yes. I mean, and I again, a lot is going to be -- depend on how they treat me. I mean if they treat me in a certain level, I'm not looking to do more, you know, you've seen I'm a counter puncher more than anything else. l don't like -- I don't really like hitting people first. Because I don't know how -- I guess -- I've always felt that I'm better, like, certain boxers, they're better counter punchers.
I've been very successful. I've only been doing it for 10 months. Will, you know, if somebody in your world gave me credit the other day, they said, he is really been effective, we've never seen anything like it ever before and then somebody else said, and he's only been doing it for 10 months, you know, these people are been in politics for 35 years.
BLITZER: It's very impressive that you came out of no political background for all practical purposes and now you're the Republican presidential nominee.
TRUMP: Well, but I always have been very heavily involved in politics. So, I haven't been elected and -- has never been my thing, frankly. And I wouldn't have done it this time, I would have been very happy to stay where I was doing. I have a great family, a great company, a really great company, and I love doing it. But when I see the mistakes and the stupidity of what they're doing with our country, the Iran deal, the trade deals, the -- everything is so bad, our military, they can't beat ISIS. When I see what's going on, I said, I have to do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: When we come right back, it's a Democrat's turn, front-runner Hillary Clinton has some tough talk with Donald Trump, when she sits down with CNN's Anderson Cooper.
LEMON: Hillary Clinton still fighting Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination. But today she aimed her fire at Donald Trump now that he's the presumptive Republican nominee. She sat down for an exclusive one on one interview with my colleague Anderson Cooper. Here it is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Just take us back to that -- the last night, the moment Ted Cruz dropped out and you realized who the nominee on the Republican Party was going to be.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well it seemed pretty clear for some time how it was going to turn out. But I also know what it's like to keep fighting to the end because I did that in 2008. And something can always happen. But it didn't surprise me at all that it was over last night.
COOPER: Assuming you get the Democratic nomination, are you ready for Donald Trump? I mean, he's already got an unflattering nickname for you. He's unlike any other candidate probably certainly you've ever run against, anybody has seen in a long time.
CLINTON: You know, Anderson, I've seen the presidency up close from two different perspectives and I think I know what it takes. And I don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like Donald Trump running our country. You know, Donald Trump has said it is okay for other countries to get nuclear weapons. I think that's just downright dangerous.
He has said wages are too high. I think we need to have a raise for the American people. Raise the minimum wage, get wages back going up. I think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know, just beyond anything that I could imagine. I think most women can imagine.
COOPER: He did walk that back.
CLINTON: Well, he's a loose cannon. I mean, he's somebody who has said so many things.
[23:15:03] And I'm sure he'll be scrambling and his advisers will be scrambling, but he's already said all of these things. He says climate change is a Chinese hoax and I think it is real. And we've got to pull the world together to deal with it. So you can go down a long list, some of which he's tried to bob and weave a little bit, but I think it's a risk. I think he is a loose cannon and loose cannons tend to misfire.
COOPER: If he a loose cannon though, he's certainly willing to say things during a race against opponents and we have seen this already that a lot of candidates were not prepared for on the GOP side. Are you ready for that?
CLINTON: Well actually, I've been in the arena for 25 years and I think nearly everything that can be thrown at somebody in politics and public life has come my way.
COOPER: You feel like you know how to run against him?
CLINTON: Oh absolutely. But I'm not running against him. I'm running my own campaign. I'm running to become president, to really deal with the economy, get it working again, take on all the barriers that stand in the way of people getting ahead. I have a very clear mission in this campaign.
COOPER: But there were a lot of folks in the GOP side who said that they were going to be running on the issues as well and that wasn't -- they weren't able to.
CLINTON: But you know -- well, maybe just don't -- didn't have the experience. Maybe they just didn't want to take him on issues because they actually agreed with him. Everybody in that Republican primary didn't want to raise the minimum wage, don't believe equal pay is a problem, don't want to talk about climate change, a lot of the same views. So they were really trapped. They couldn't run a campaign on the issues that matter to America and I can and I will.
COOPER: There are Democrats who are just worried about you against Trump, that you're not ready for whatever he may throw at you, that he's -- I mean, he's brought up a lot of stuff about a lot of people that nobody could have predicted. He was quoting from the National Inquirer just yesterday, you know, there is -- he's made references to your marriage, to your husband. Are you prepared?
CLINTON: Well, he's not the first one, Anderson. I just can't -- I can't say this often enough. If he wants to go back to the playbook of the 1990s, if he wants to follow in the footsteps of those who have tried to knock me down, and take me out of the political arena, I'm more than happy to have him do that.
COOPER: You're ready for that?
CLINTON: Oh please, I mean, look. This is to me, a classic case of a blustering, bullying guy who -- and who has knocked out of the way all of the Republicans, because they were just dumbfounded. They didn't know how to deal with him and they couldn't take him on, on the issues because they basically agreed with him. And they didn't know how to counter punch.
COOPER: Do you think they waited too long?
CLINTON: Oh, you'll have to ask them. I can't run their campaigns. They have to run their own. I can only tell you the campaign I'm going to run, and the campaign I'm going to run is about what we will do in the future and I invite a lot of the Republicans and independents who I've been seeing on the campaign trail, who have been reaching out to me, I invite them to join with Democrats. Let's get on the American team. Let's get off the red or the blue team, let's get on the American team.
COOPER: Just finely, Senator Sanders is obviously taking issue with people calling you the presumptive nominee on the Democratic side. What do you say to his supporters? Should you be considered the presumptive nominee at this point?
CLINTON: Well I'm not calling myself that. I know there are still some contests ahead and I respect Senator Sanders in whatever choices he makes. And I really -- I have a lot of empathy about this, Anderson. You know, I ran to the very end in 2008.
COOPER: You've been there. You know what it feels like.
CLINTON: And I won 9 out of the last 12 contests. People forget that. I won Indiana, I won West Virginia, I won a lot of States, but I couldn't close the gap in pledged delegates. And the gap between me and Senator Sanders is far wider than it was between me and Senator Obama.
COOPER: So having been in his shoes, what do you say to him?
CLINTON: Well, I know what he said last week, which I really welcomed, he said that he will do everything he can to prevent Donald Trump from being president of the United States. He'll work seven days a week. I'm going to really count on that because I want to unify the party. I'm certainly going to be reaching out to his supporters who have far more in common with me and my supporters than they do with Donald Trump and his campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And up next, Clinton versus Trump, what to expect from the general election and the campaign that is breaking all the rules?
LEMON: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton both speaking to CNN Tonight and the war of words is just heating up. I want to get the reaction out from Bob Cusack, Editor-in-Chief of the hill.com, Senior Political Commentator Bob Beckel, author of "I Should Be Dead," and Political Commentator Carl Bernstein, author of "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton." Good to have all of you here.
Bob Cusack, we just heard from Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, here is what you tweeted out today, you said, "Preview of Clinton versus Trump. Clinton, release your tax returns. Trump, release transcripts of your Wall Street speeches. #nothingreleased."
BOB CUSACK, "THE HILL" EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Yeah.
LEMON: That's a pretty good prediction. I mean, is that what we're in for over the next six months?
CUSACK: Oh, fasten your seat belt, Don. I mean, I think we're going to see some crazy stuff, the debates, I think we're going to smash records, ratings. But overall, yes, you're going to have a big fight over the tax returns that Trump has not released as well as the transcripts. I think it's going to be very nasty. I think it's going to be very unpredictable.
I think Trump's going to have to do very well in the debates in order to win this thing. But we've seen, Don, that he's done very well in the Republican debates, he's a good debater, so is Hillary Clinton. So, I just think it's going to be overall, though, one of the nastiest races you've ever, ever seen.
LEMON: Carl, Hillary Clinton says that she is ready to take on Donald Trump. If he, you know, throws a 1990s playbook at her, you know, she says whatever it is, that she's ready. You wrote a book on Hillary Clinton, so, what do you think?
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she's very good at going negative. She's done it in all the Clinton campaigns. She wanted to bring out negative and leak information about George W. -- Senior H.W. Bush's supposedly affairs with women when Bush was running against Bill Clinton in the initial presidential race.
[23:25:15] But I think we're talking about the wrong thing. We're talking about what a hell of a show this is going to be. We haven't done the reporting.
And, why have there been no, not a single investigative biography of any of the candidates that I know of, on any of the major networks, cable networks. Look, we need to know about these people's lives, and their records. We didn't get to know about -- look, Hillary Clinton has been around for 40 years and yet we don't really know about her as a person. Why aren't we doing investigative biographies and put them on the air before the candidates?
LEMON: Listen, it's -- I don't know for sure, no one is ...
LEMON: I haven't seen any at all the cable, but, I mean, Hillary Clinton's been out there since the '80s.
BERNSTEIN: That's right.
LEMON: Donald Trump has been out there -- they are both two of the most documented people ever, Bob.
BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't -- wouldn't say that about Donald Trump. But I'll tell you, Hillary Clinton has, from the very beginning, the reason her negatives are high. She's been on the defensive now every day of her public life and Carl wrote a book about her. I mean, a lot of people have written books about her and it's not all been flattering to say the least. She has taken the hits. And she said, I'll tell you, I've never seen her look as confident as she did tonight. And does anybody think that a loose cannon pulled well.
That was a -- usually that over and over again, you can see her entire campaign plan laid out there. And I don't think that Donald Trump had the advantage of running against the Munchkins at the Wizard of Oz. Now he's got to take on somebody who's serious.
LEMON: I just want Bob Cusack to weigh in on this conversation. Go ahead, Bob.
CUSACK: Well, listen, I mean, I think that the field actually was fairly strong. There were some weak candidates on the Republican side, but there were 17 of them and some of them were seasoned politicians like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, and Trump beat them all. And I don't think that Trump realized that he could win this thing in the beginning. And he did. So, that's why -- I mean, if it was Cruz, Clinton, I think you'd have a kind of a boring race because I think Clinton would have the big edge there. I don't think Cruz could have won the Reagan Democrats. I think Trump has a shot. He's the underdog in this race.
LEMON: But to Carl's point thought, Carl's point that, you know, he doesn't believe that there has been, you know, investigative work done, and then ...
BERNSTEIN: There has in books.
BERNSTEIN: But we have much more power on television to put that story together. Pull out what's in my book. Pull out the reporting that's been done on Trump and put together a real documentary story of their lives on Bernie Sanders.
LEMON: Do you think we'll get to that, Bob?
BERNSTEIN: But we should have gotten to it months ago, on Rubio, on all of them. This is a great, great journalistic failing.
LEMON: So that guy was the question then.
BERNSTEIN: This is a great journalistic failing in this.
LEMON: We have six months left.
BERNSTEIN: We've been great on debates and announces.
LEMON: We have six months left. Do you think we'll get to that especially when you have someone, Bob Cusack, hang on, Carl, when you have someone like Hillary Clinton, and like Donald Trump going at it with each other and not knowing -- this is unlike any other campaign. Do you think people will actually care about, you know, the investigative work for Hillary Clinton?
CUSACK: I think they will to some degree. And I agree with Carl, it's been in print and I think we do have a long way to go, Don, as you said. So I do think that it will transfer to television to some degree. But overall, voters have made up their mind, I think a lot of voters made up their mind of who Hillary Clinton is and who Donald Trump is and whether they like them or not.
LEMON: Especially the Trump voters, do you think they could really care?
CUSACK: Well, as far as Trump, I mean, they support Trump ...
CUSACK: ... solidly as well as Hillary Clinton, but there is that small sliver of independence. And I know a lot of people who say they don't like Hillary and they don't like Donald and don't know what to do.
BERNSTEIN: Well, this indeed is a contest between two of the most disliked politicians in our history. We've never had a presidential race between two people who are distrusted by majority of the electorate.
LEMON: You're right. They're unfavorable numbers, 56 percent for Trump and 49 percent for Clinton.
BERNSTEIN: The point that I'm trying to milk it, I'm interested in what Bob Beckel thinks of this is that I don't believe, as famous as Hillary Clinton is, that we really know her story into -- unless you've read the books and the same with Trump, who's been out there since the 1980s. And we have the ability on television to let people make more intelligent decisions, not based on sand box celebrity culture, which we're seeing an awful lot of in this, dictated to some extent by the candidates and also the mutual interests of us as journalists on television in them, but we need to go deeper.
BERNSTEIN: What does Bob -- what ...
LEMON: Well, let's go. I want to go deeper. Let's go deeper on the issues. Let's talk about the economy, right? Because over and over, everyone says the economy was the issue. Donald Trump brought up the economy last night. In the latest CNN poll, Donald Trump is beating Hillary Clinton on that issue, though he loses to her in a general match-up in just about every other issue. Is this something you think he can exploit, Bob Beckel?
BECKEL: Well, yeah sure he's going to try to exploit it, but let's remember Republicans always run ahead in on that issue in polling in a presidential race.
[23:30:03] I think the more important question is, you got two of the most negative people running for president and there will be a desire on the partisan voters to know more about it. I mean this is not something -- I agree with Paul, I think the American public has got two people, practically they wouldn't want either one if they had their choice and they want to learn more about it.
And I think that probably -- in the long run, we know a lot more about Hillary Clinton than we do about that we do about Donald Trump, but this is going to be an election. If you ever wanted to get out there and do some real serious investigative reporting and put it on T.V., the public would welcome it.
LEMON: Carl let me ask you this. Donald Trump told the New York Times about his Trump presidency. He said, "I know people aren't sure right now what a President Trump will be like. But things will be fine. I'm not running for president to make things unstable for the country." Friends and allies of Trump are telling me that the words he used to describe his first 100 days "negotiating," what does that tell you, he's saying negotiating, what does that tell you?
BERNSTEIN: He's saying things will be fine. That's a hell of a platform. Things will be fine. That is what this campaign has been about and it's part of the power of Trump's appeal. Trump has figured it out with perfect pitch, starting with a con of neofascist campaign that now has enlarged to include a very deft analysis of why people are feeling pain and don't believe in the institutions in this country anymore. And he's tapped into that and he owns that space now. Hillary Clinton does not own it and that's her problem, her problem in the Rust Belt.
LEMON: Bob Beckel.
BECKEL: Carl the fact is, Donald Trump got 10 million votes so far in this election. It's going to take 60 to 70 million votes to win. He's got a long way -- he's got a sliver of people, we've all been to those rallies, it scares me to death, people, they got their motorcycles.
But the reality is -- we keep talking about Trump's popularity. Democrats have made up their mind up a long time ago, they're either dead or they're voting Republican. This will be the first election in the history of this country where less than 70 people of the people will be white.
BERNSTEIN: Really long shots Bill, 20-25 percent chance that most Republicans believe including those who support him.
LEMON: Bob Cusack, so let's talk about, you know, Donald Trump presidency. By his 100th day, are we going to start seeing, you know, a wall, a ban on Muslims entering the country, a new Supreme Court justice?
CUSACK: Well, you see a new justice because I don't think Garland is going to be confirmed either before the election or in the lame-duck session. But overall, that's what Donald Trump's I think strength is going to be, at least he's going to try to make that a strength, I can make deals, I can work with the other side, and his supporters are okay with that.
Now Hillary Clinton worked with Republicans when she was in the Senate. But s is seen outside the beltway as a polarizing figure. I think that's her challenge because people want problem solvers, that's where Trump is going to maybe the case, I can be the problem solver, because honestly, if Hillary Clinton becomes the next president and I would say she's the favorite at this point, we've got a long way to go, that Republicans in Congress, they're at least going to have the House in all likelihood, the Senate is up for grabs, I think Republicans are not going to be keen to work with her on day 1 or day 100.
LEMON: That's the last word. All right, thank you, gentlemen. Carl and the Bobs, two Bobs. Appreciate it.
BERNSTEIN: Bye, Bobs.
LEMON: Coming up, new information on the last days of Prince. Did help arrive too late?
LEMON: We have new information tonight on the last days of Prince. The day before the superstar died, his team reportedly called a top addiction specialist in California urgently seeking help. That specialist is Dr. Howard Kornfeld couldn't get to Minneapolis so he sent his son, who according to his attorney arrived too late to save Prince.
I want to discuss this with Sara Sidner. Sara is here with more. Hello, Sara. Did the attorney or the addiction and pain specialist say that it was definitely addiction the doctor needed to treat?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. The attorney did not say that. He said it could have been for pain management and/or addiction. So never came out and said for sure that he was there because prince had an addiction to opiates. What he didn't say -- what he did say, though, was that this was a life saving mission and that brings up a lot of questions, because just down the road, from Prince's Paisley Park, there is a place that treats addiction.
And so this -- there is a lot of questions going on right now, why send someone from so far away, why call someone who is a doctor who then sends his son who is not a doctor on a life saving mission. So there are a lot of questions that are going to be looked at by investigators into this case. And this was a real revelation. I mean, nobody knew the person whose voice was on the phone calling 911 was someone who had never met Prince before, who had just shown up at the home to try and help him, and that he called 911 because everyone there was so distraught, that person being Andrew Cornfeld, the son of a well-known pain management and addiction specialist, all the way in California. Don.
LEMON: OK, so explain this to me. It maybe a little confusing. There is an attorney here, a former attorney who is speaking out for siblings of -- explain what is going on, saying he had an addiction to Percocet decades before he died? What is going on here?
SIDNER: So this attorney is in Minnesota. He had represented two of Prince's half siblings years ago. And back then he had lots of conversations with them. He said the reason why he came forward to talk about this is because he thought, "Oh my goodness, I wonder if this had anything to do with what I heard from Dwayne Nelson, who was Prince's half brother.
Now Dwayne Nelson and Prince, he worked for Prince for many years at Paisley Park, they had a falling out and they were estranged, Dwayne Nelson sued Prince even. But this attorney took on that case and said that over the years, Dwayne was telling him that Prince had a problem with Percocet. [23:40:05] That he was the person who had to go and pick that up for Prince. Dwayne has since died, so has the sister who confirmed that to this attorney. And so we can't independently corroborate that. But the attorney we spoke with, who represented these two, half siblings, said he was taken aback when he heard that Prince had died so suddenly and he wondered if that had anything to do with the information he had heard about that he was taking Percocet back in the '80s and '90s.
LEMON: OK, so that was confusing. It's a former attorney of two of Prince's deceased siblings who is making this claim. Now I got it. Now I got it. OK, so the U.S. attorney office -- attorney's office and the DEA joining local authorities with this investigation. What can you tell us Sara?
SIDNER: You know that gives you some indication that there are -- they're going to be looking into nefarious activity when it comes to things like potentially the prescriptions and we know from law enforcement sources that there were pills that were found on Prince, and also in his home, and so far investigators have said they can't find any evidence that he had a valid prescription and they're looking for some of the details. But having the Drug Enforcement Administration come into this and being called into this, that tells you about where this investigation maybe going into Prince's death.
LEMON: Sara Sidner joining us from Los Angeles on the investigation to Prince's death. Sara, thank you very much. I appreciate that.
SIDNER: You're welcome.
LEMON: I want to discuss this now with Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN's "Dr. Drew," and he is an addictionologist. Dr. Drew you've been listening to Sara's report there. CNN has learned that Prince allegedly had an addiction to Percocet decades before his death.
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: No, no, what we heard was that he was using Percocet years before. He was using them after concert, an abuser of Percocet, we don't know he was an addict. In fact, what we specifically don't see he is the arc of progression and behavioral disturbances you see associated with addiction. I've spoken to many recovering addicts who have a pretty good eye for the disease of addiction and they agree that there would be a pretty strong reach to consider him an addict, having hidden all of these years with that disease away.
As far as Percocet, 81 percent of the Percocet prescribed on earth between 1991 and 2013 was prescribed in this country. Nearly 100 percent of the Vicodin tablets on earth were prescribed in the same time interval in this country. We have a grotesque, grotesque tsunami of overprescribing opiates. So it's easy for him to have gotten his hands on this.
As far as him having a valid prescription, he probably had a prescription in somebody else's name because he clearly was getting special care. Here he has a doctor dispatched across the country, when in fact, as Sara mentioned, Hazelden Betty Ford Treatment Center the city center is four miles from his house, the premiere addiction treatment center in the country. Simply throw him in the car, get him to that center, it would be confidential, he would get thorough treatment there.
Now, it looked like what he was going to get was the more Conrad Murrayesque care in his home of somebody attempting to detox and manage his care in his Paisley Park home. Which, again, have we learned nothing from Conrad Murray?
LEMON: If they called you for help, how would you have responded?
PINSKY: I would have said, put him in the car, take him to a city center, it's the premiere center of the country, you don't need me, put him in the car, take him down there now. And then patient should not be dictating care. The patient has a sick mind right now, whether he's dependent or addicted, I don't know. But they'll figure that out there. I should not be flying out to meet him when around the corner, literally around the corner the premiere center for the treatment of these disorders sits.
You can go there, and you can be assured you'll be treated confidentially, you're entitled to confidential care, you are highly protected. But when the patient starts dictating the kind of care he or she wants, you end up with Conrad Murray. Addicts do not dictate their care, I'm not saying that they have to take care, they should be participants in the decision-making, but to dictate the care, that ends up in disaster.
LEMON: I said -- according to the relatives, right? I said allegedly had an addiction to Percocet before, you corrected me and said, no, we didn't know that. So my question is, where is the line between needing a prescription medication for health reasons and becoming addicted to that medication?
PINSKY: Well addiction again is a life-long progressive behavioral disturbance. What we're seeing is people that look like addicts that are really dependent on the drug which I suspect, again, I don't know, but I suspect that's what's going on with Prince. In that he gets in a situation where he probably had some sort of underlying chronic medical problem, he's interacting with the medical system, he was given opiates appropriately and then it got out of control.
There is something called hyperalgesia, where pain is intensified by the opiates, he begins chasing the opiates, the pain gets worse, now he's in a cycle of real trouble. We hear that he was cutting down. One of the common complaints of people that are cutting down, tell me is A, I feel like I have the flu, we heard the flu complaint in his background, and I can't sleep. We also heard rumors that he hadn't slept for 154 hours. The real, real dangers occur from the sleeplessness and that someone will then give him a benzodiazepine medicine or a sleeping medication, then he slips back into the opioid use, that combination is lethal.
[23:45:14] And my fear is you're going find both in his blood and that will be what made him stop breathing. LEMON: OK, so we know where his body was discovered, in an elevator, the day after his representatives reached out to the doctor and the sheriff said there were no signs of trauma. What re your questions about this? What questions are you asking?
PINSKY: My questions are why was allowed to continue to progress with his substances? Why did he have access to these things? Why wasn't he getting proper medical supervision? Why was he able to dictate the care? Why weren't the people around him insulating him from proper care and not mandating proper care? Everything is going to be told by the autopsy. What we need to know is did he have a sudden death there in the elevator? Are we going to find a cardiac event or a stroke, something like that, or are we going to find really nothing other than modest levels of benzodiazepine and opiate and I fear the latter.
LEMON: So six days before his death, we talked about that private plane made an emergency landing and he was carried to paramedics waiting at the airport, he was taken to a hospital, but left in just a couple of hours, against medical advice, by the way, might things have turned out differently for him Dr. Drew if he stayed at that hospital?
PINSKY: Well of course. Somebody could really sink their teeth into him, get him proper care. What we hear he was unconscious on the plane, so my hunch based on 30 years of experience is, he was trying to cut down on the medicine, but then he took a usual dose and that was enough to really knock him out. In the field, if paramedics come across an unconscious patient, and all unconscious patients get the same shot, the Narcan, they didn't know he had overdose, he may not have been overdosed, it may have been a relatively small dose, they give him Narcan, he wakes up sufficiently in the hospital, which mean he responded to the Narcan to demand to leave against medical advice.
You learn nothing in two hours in an emergency room with an unconscious patient or almost nothing. Believe no doctor, no hospital would let somebody in that condition walk out without signing out against medical advice.
LEMON: Dr. Drew Pinsky, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.
PINSKY: Thanks Don.
LEMON: HLN's Dr. Drew airs at a new time at 7:00 p.m. eastern on HLN. Again thanks to Dr. Drew. We'll be right back.
LEMON: We have moved on from a lot of things we loved in the '80s, the fashion, the music, the television. But the decade's digital revolution changed the world forever. I want you to listen to this from our CNN original series "THE EIGHTIES".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The memory, it is internal memory, built inside of this computer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new computers were big, ugly, difficult to use inventions when they first came out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would crash and you had to figure out what to do. It would not always create the right results. So it really did take a mindset of someone willing to cut it some slack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take small steps don't take big steps.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody kind of agreed that this could be the next great thing after the printing press if we do it right.
It is not just having a machine. The world needed to be made better. Those are the things that actually can lift a society into a new way of thinking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do you guys remember that? I remember that. I love the '80s by the way. Joining me is Nolan Bushnell, technology pioneer and co- founder of Nolan Bushnell. I loved Atari Nolan. I played Pong, that was my first game I played. Welcome by the way. You've been called the king of video games for your role in -- there it is. For founding Atari and creating a legendary game, Pong. It was huge then. If you were starting all over again today, what kind of technology would you be focusing on?
NOLAN BUSHNELL, TECHNOLOGY PIONEER: Well, I like certain things to do with augmented and virtual reality. I think those are really fun. My sons are involved in it. I've got a company that is doing a little bit of V.R. It is a good project to take the new tools and spin them in some new and interesting ways.
LEMON: Yeah. You started this video game Boom. How do you see -- how do you see the impact of those games now in our computers and cell phones?
BUSHNELL: Well, I think game play has become a really important part of everybody's life or most people's. And, the fact that our phones are really good game players are great. What I've been disappointed in is that we have all these technology with us everywhere but in schools. The schools are way behind where they should be in getting this technology into the classroom, which is really a powerful teacher.
LEMON: Yeah. I want to ask you about your favorite video game being the pioneer of this. Because mine were -- I had two of them, pac-man, but my favorite was Galaga on the right. I loved that game. It was great. What is your favorite?
BUSHNELL: I think asteroids in terms of real good -- very good game play. It also happened to be the first one that had a microprocessor in it. And that sort of makes an interesting historical note. LEMON: I remember that one. I had all these games, by the way. So
many I've forgotten. You have eight kids, I understand? Are they gamers?
BUSHNELL: That's correct. All of them, yes.
LEMON: Yes. When the '80s, you know, when you think about the '80s, when I say the '80s, what comes to your mind?
BUSHNELL: Well, I think of a time where the potential of the computer is just starting to be felt. I mean, '84 was the introduction of the Macintosh, and the IBM P.C. in that area. And all of a sudden, the software was getting good enough you could actually really do things. Spreadsheets and the games were getting pretty good in the P.C. world as well. I think of it as a massive jump in capability, of computer generated technology.
[23:55:07] LEMON: So, Mr. Visionary, what do you see the next 10 years looking like?
BUSHNELL: Oh, it is going to be wonderful. We're going to see full transformation of the education system using more technology. Kids using technology today can probably learn 10 times as fast. And so, I see that's going to be a big change. The second part is, I think augmented in immersive reality is going to be an important part. V.R. is as close to the holodeck as you can get if you're a Star Wars fan or a Star Trek fan. And. augmented reality is going to change board games and family time around the dinner table.
LEMON: Yeah. I'm sure my Atari is somewhere in my attic at my parent's old home somewhere. Thank you. I appreciate it. Nolan Bushnell.
BUSHNELL: Thank you. God to be here.
LEMON: Yup, the '80s, the tech boom airs tomorrow night at 9:00 right here on CNN. And we will be right back.
LEMON: Before we leave you tonight, in the last moments of May the 4th be with you, here is something you've got to see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: That's my favorite song. How did you know?
B. OBAMA: Come on, star trooper. Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The White House celebrating the day by posting this video of President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama's Star Wars dance party back in December.
That's it for us tonight. Thank you for watching.