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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Coverage of the Last Presidential Debate in Nevada; Clinton- Trump Debate Begins at 9PM ET on CNN. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 19, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: John King. John, thanks very much. That does it for us. Thanks for watching. Our pre-debate coverage continues right now with Erin Burnett "OUTFRONT."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Tonight, the presidential candidates eye to eye (ph) one last time.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He talks us down. He makes disparaging comments.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The election is being rigged in an epic to elect her presence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump unleashing unproven claims (INAUDIBLE). His campaign struggling after a series of women accused him of sexual misconduct.
TRUMP: These people are horrible people. They are horrible, horrible liars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton downplaying an embarrassing email hat. Her campaigning gaining and she seats to close the deal.
CLINTON: That's all they have left. Your negativity, we are not going to let Donald Trump get away with it, are we?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN's coverage of Clinton versus Trump in their final presidential debate with only 20 days left until Election Day.
CLINTON: I think it was pretty clear there are two very different choices.
TRUMP: It is by far the most important vote that you have ever cast.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two nominees one stage and America's future up for debate.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And welcome. We are live in Las Vegas where Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are about to get their last chance to appeal to tens of millions of voters at one time. This may also be Trump's last chance to change the direction of this race for the White House. We are coming to you live from the spin room tonight next to the debate hall right here on the campus of university of Nevada Las Vegas.
And welcome to all of you. I'm Erin Burnett with a very special edition of OUTFRONT on this debate night in America.
The presidential nominees are heading into their final face-off. And right now when it comes to the polls Hillary Clinton is holding a clear advantage. Donald Trump is at his weakest position of this campaign. Trump's campaign manager tells CNN she wants him to stay focused on the issues tonight on Clinton's weaknesses as he tries to turn it around. Trump of course may choose instead as he has before to double down on the incendiary message he has been delivering in recent days claiming the election is rigged, something which from all fact checking we have done is not true .
Clinton's aide says she is bracing for her toughest debate yet as she works to protect and expand her lead. But she is back on the defensive over emails and the controversy getting renewed attention because of the stolen emails published by Wikileaks.
Now, let's go inside the debate hall. Wolf Blitzer is there.
And Wolf, you know, this really is the do or die. This is the final chance. And I know we may get a sense of the tone of this debate very quickly.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I think we will, Erin. We will see if the candidates shake hands for example when they walk on the stage about two hours from now. Remember last time they did not shake hands at the beginning of the debate.
The format for this debate is the same as the first debate. Viewers will see Donald Trump on the left. Hillary Clinton on the right. They will stand in lecterns for the entire 90 minutes. The moderator is Chris Wallace of FOX News. His first question will go to Hillary Clinton.
This debate will focus on six topics - The economy and debt and entitlements, immigration and foreign hot spots, the Supreme Court and fitness to be president of the United States.
We are standing by for the candidates to arrive here on the UNLV campus as we count down to the main event. We also have a live interview with Donald Trump's running mate Mike Pence. Pence won his vice presidential debate what is his advice for Donald Trump tonight. We will also bring you a remarkable debate before the presidential debate between Donald Trump supporter, the former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, and Clinton supporter, the billionaire and businessman, Mark Cuban. That will be very intense - Erin.
BURNETT: That will be intense and exciting. Going to happen right here in just moments from now. And we are getting some new information about Donald Trump and what he will be doing tonight.
Let's bring in Jim Acosta. Jim, what are you learning?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Erin, based on Donald Trump's guest list tonight, the GOP nominee is going full Bannon as in Stephen Bannon, the campaign chairman and head of the conservative Breitbart News Web site. A close advisor to Trump tells me it is simply not in Trump's nature to come out and acknowledge his flaws at tonight's debate. Instead he will be on the attack. With guests in his corner who are beloved in the conservative movement from Sarah Palin to Patricia Smith, the mother of one of the Americans killed at Benghazi.
And despite his current slide in the polls, a senior advisor tells me Donald Trump remains confident. He is going to win this election. He is in good spirits and not at all allowing the feeling that he could lose this race to sink in. According to this advisor, Trump will attack Clinton repeatedly on foreign policy tonight to make the case that Clinton has time and again made the wrong calls on the world stage. And Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, Erin, tells me the mission is simple this - win, adding quote "even if the losers say we lost." - Erin.
[19:05:09] BURNETT: Alright, Jim, thank you very much.
And now, let's go to our Brianna Keilar. She is covering the Clinton campaign.
And Brianna, what are you learning now? We know what Donald Trump is going hard after here. What is Hillary Clinton ready for?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: She has certainly been getting ready for some time, Erin. And it's really fascinating. I spoke with a top aide who used the word when, not, if, in talking about Hillary Clinton getting to the White House. So as the sign of confidence that she, and her team have as they head into this third and final debate. She spent a lot of time preparing, five day, including today where she was getting ready with her team at the hotel here in Las Vegas.
It is time that her team feels is very well spent even though she has had criticism from Donald Trump for not being out on the campaign trail much. They think it is her debate performances that have helped her rise in the polls recently. And our scientific polls a CNN shows that voters do believe Hillary Clinton won the first two debates.
You know, we are talking about Donald Trump and how he has been alleging that the election is rigged. That is something that privately was of a lot of concern to people in the Clinton campaign and supporters of Hillary Clinton. They were worried that it would depress voter turnout. But talking to top aids on the plane, on Hillary Clinton's plane coming here yesterday to Las Vegas, it seemed that they were genuinely more at ease about this issue. That they have been looking at some of the poll numbers and perhaps it is not as much of a concern as they thought. But again, they have a lot of confidence going into this. And some say, you know, you can't be too confident. There are still weeks to go here.
BURNETT: Alright, Brianna, thank you very much.
And now let's send it back to you, Wolf. I know you have a special guest.
BLITZER: We do indeed, Erin. We are joined by the Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook.
Robby, thanks very much for joining us.
ROBBY MOOK, CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: My Pleasure.
BLITZER: All right. So one of the themes, one of the subjects tonight, fitness for office. Fitness to be president of the United States. Since the last debate, a number of women have come forward accusing Donald Trump of groping them, forcibly kissing them. Does Hillary Clinton plan on raising that in the debate tonight?
MOOK: Well, Wolf, there has been a disturbing trend with these women coming forward talking about sexual misconduct, but this is part of a broader issue that Donald Trump has. The demeaning comments that he has consistently made about women throughout his career. All that said Hillary Clinton wants to focus on other issues as well. Her plan to create jobs, get wages rising, help families afford college and healthcare.
Hillary had put out specific plans on these issues. She is ready to put her ideas up against Donald Trump's. The problem is at the last two debates he has come with no ideas. He was come with no specifics. And in fact he said a lot of thing that are simply not true. And she had to spend her time fact-checking. So we are hoping that all of these things get a proper look in the debate.
BLITZER: So we won't raise that specifically?
MOOK: You never know what's going to come up on the stage. But I think her first and primary mission in this debate is to talk about how she will make a difference in people's lives. The things she will do.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Their spouses have been brought into this. First question about that our understanding is that the campaigns have arranged so that Melania Trump and Bill Clinton don't have an awkward moment because they don't want to shake hands. Can you talk about that?
MOOK: Well, we have been asking for in all these debates is just that the rules aren't set up such that the Trump campaign can pull some of the stunts they have tried to pull in the past. We know that Trump tried to remove his family from the day as last time and put these guests there to, you know, to get attention and try to intimidate Hillary. She is not going to be intimidated by the stunts. And we just asked the rules to be set up so that, you know, we can focus on the debate and discussion of the issues. BASH: So no Bill Clinton and Melania moment talking about the debate
and the issues. The way that the debate last time started was clearly on a very tense moment in that the two candidates didn't shake hands. What is her plan? Is she going to reach out and shake his hand?
MOOK: Again we just want to get them on that stage, get the debate started. Talk about the issues. So some of this happens organically. Some of this is all pre-planned out. But again, we are hoping not to have the kind of intrigue and stunts of last time. Let's just put the issues out there. Put the plans out. Let them argue it out so the voters can decide what's going to make the better difference in their lives.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Without getting bagged into the fact that the Wikileaks that have been published in the last week come from an illegal probably hack in some cases whatever happened, it was stolen from your campaign chair John Podesta, his account. We get the whole Russia thing. We get it.
So let me ask you about the substance of some of these speeches that she has given to Goldman Sachs. Because they do seem to suggest that she is one message publicly, talking about the need for reform and so that Wall Street doesn't commit the kind of acts that led to the financial meltdown at 2007, 2008. And also at the same time she is telling Wall Street that Congress only acted for political reasons and she is taking a much more friendly tone with them. I'm sure you have prepared for this or Hillary Clinton has prepared for this. What is the answer going to be if Chris Wallace says, hey look, you seem to have two very different positions on Wall Street whether or not the American people are watching.
[19:10:14] MOOK: Well, I think what matters here are what the candidate's actual records have been. The things they have done. The choices they have made. At every juncture Hillary has stood up for holding Wall Street accountable. I think she is willing to listen and work with anyone to accomplish the ends that she set out with in her platform.
But let's go back to 2007, 2008. Hillary actually went to the Nasdaq and said that the practices that were being done there, you know, with mortgage lending and so on, they were going to hurt the economy. They were going to crash the economy. And they did. But she wasn't afraid to call them out at the time.
Donald Trump has never spoken out on these issues. He speaks in platitudes now on the campaign. But we didn't see him going out and calling Wall Street out on their behavior before. And look, the one last thing I say, indulge me two seconds. The one thing we have got to hear from Donald Trump tonight is that he first of all acknowledges that Russia conducted this hack. We know that he was briefed by the intelligence community that they did conduct it. And second of all he has to condemn it. His own running mate has condemned it. Marco Rubio today condemned it. You cannot run for president of United States and not speak out against espionage and illegal foreign hacks (ph). TAPPER: But you understand that all of those Bernie Sanders
supporters who were very skeptical of Secretary Clinton, when they read these transcripts, their skepticism is reinforced. They think she is not really on our side when it comes to being as aggressive against Wall Street as our heroes Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would be.
MOOK: Well, I think it is important to keep in mind a lot of these documents were again hacked from the campaign. Some of it was research compiled by professionals within the campaign who actually try to characterize materialize as the opponent would. So some of it skewed. A lot of was taken out of context. For example, there was, you know, one email where she was just talk about how to create more synergies for green energy production in the western hemisphere and it's been construed into all kind of things that is not. And Bernie Sanders has said, he has confidence in the platform that he and Hillary worked together on. They are both committed to enacting it when she is elected and that's what matters right now.
BLITZER: In those same transcripts of those speeches that she gave to Goldman Sachs speeches, she also bemoans the fact there is not more convert action for example in Syria. If she becomes president, would she engage in more convert action for example as part of U.S. foreign policy?
MOOK: Well, she has said in the past that early on in this, she wanted to do more to aid the moderate factions that are opposing Assad. She has called for safe zones and no-fly zones. And so yes, I mean, she has called to do more. And in particular that we have to put more pressure on Russia because obviously the situation as it is now is not working. We cannot trust Russian intentions. They continue to bomb civilians. And we need to do more.
TAPPER: The last question I have for you, Robby, is has to do with these videos that came out this week from a conservative activist. James O'Keefe who will be here tonight as a guest of Donald Trump. We can quibble about the editing and what there is, but without question there have been two individuals who have been either been fired or lost their jobs and one of those individuals seems to be bragging about sending in an agitators into Trump rallies to try cause violence to make Donald Trump and his supporters to look bad and possibly even bussing in people to vote improperly vote illegally. Does the Clinton campaign condemn it? And maybe more importantly, are you looking into to it see if it's true and make sure that this kind of - I mean, people got hurt in these protest, in these riots. Are you looking into it to make sure that it doesn't happen?
MOOK: Well violence is unacceptable in our political process period. And the campaign absolutely condemns any efforts to incite violence. That is part of why we are speaking out against Donald Trump because we believe that he has incited violence in the past.
My understanding is the individual in question was working for a completely separate organization that wasn't even affiliated with the DNC or anything else when the activity that you are speaking about took place. But look. Stepping back, what James O'Keefe is trying to do and he
will be here tonight in Donald Trump's invitations is to imply that there are some massive fraudulent scheme going on around the country to tip the results of election. The fact of the matter is Donald Trump is losing. He is desperate and he wants to blame a loss on anyone other than himself.
TAPPER: I get that. But there was violence at these rallies. And there is this Democratic operative on tape saying we sent people in there and even said something like some of them had mental problems that we sent in there to try to cause fights.
MOOK: And that - and it is unacceptable for people to do that. And we will absolutely speak out against that. But what I'm speaking out against as well is what James O'Keefe is trying to do which is imply that people's votes won't to be counted and that the system is fraudulent. It is not. We are going to see the biggest turnout in our history in this election. Everybody should get involve. Republican secretaries of state are the ones coming out condemning the things that Donald Trump and James O'Keefe were saying. We are going to have a great election. Everybody should participate because they don't want to wake after election and feel like the miss out.
[19:15:23] BLITZER: Robby, thanks very much for coming in.
Robby Mook is the Clinton campaign manager. We will see what happens later tonight.
Erin, back to you.
BURNETT: All right, Wolf.
And coming up we are going to be talking to Donald Trump's running mate Mike Pence about the stakes for his boss tonight.
And right here on CNN, before Clinton and Trump face off ear going bring you fierce debate between two of the top supporters. Rudy Giuliani for Trump and Mark Cuban for Clinton live right here. Stay with us.
[19:19:57] BURNETT: And you hear the marching band here at the University of Las Vegas playing the CNN election song. We are here on the campus of UNLV in the battleground state of Nevada. Counting down to the last big milestone in the presidential race before Election Day.
This, of course, is the final debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. It is a do or die moment for Trump tonight. Tonight's debate will play out with early voting already under way. People are already voting across this country and there are only 20 days left until the actual election itself.
John King is at the magic wall with an update on the state of the race. And, of course, this is all important path of how Donald Trump can still get there -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, it is very interesting. You mention early vote. The two elections really at play in the debate tonight. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump to influence people who are voting on November 8th, but also people who are already voting.
Let's show what we mean by this. Number of states are already voting, including you see here battleground Ohio. Arizona and Utah suddenly in play. They are already voting. By the end of this week, even more states will be voting. Bring in more state, battlegrounds, including down in Georgia. State Democrats (INAUDIBLE) might be in play. And by the end of next week, let me get this to fill in here. There we go. By the end of next week the early voting except for in one state will be under way.
Already, we know an early voting, Erin, 2.1 million ballots cast, 1.4 million of those from the critical battleground states. So in the states who will decide who the next president is, this election is already under well way. And a lot of people who might be going tomorrow or the day after will watch these candidates tonight.
Thirty seven states in the District of Columbia in all off for early voting. The candidates trying to shape this process, but most of all trying to shape this map.
And our new CNN electoral map is lopsided now in favor of Secretary Clinton heading into this final debate. We have her at 307 electoral votes, 179 more Donald Trump. It takes 270 to win. Pretty obvious, Donald Trump needs to bend the arc of this race and bent it big time.
What are the biggest changes in our new map? The most surprising, Arizona and Utah. Mitt Romney won Arizona with 72 percent of the vote. Mitt Romney won Arizona last by ten points. We have taken them from the republic column, put him back into the toss up column because the latest poll shows Hillary Clinton is competitive. In fact, the latest poll shows her ahead in the state of Arizona. That is bad news for Donald Trump heading into the final debate.
These are the most surprising changes to our map. The most significant change though, this one. Florida now leans Democrat in our map. It was a battleground state when we woke up this morning. That is huge. Donald Trump cannot win the presidency. Cannot get to 270 electoral votes without those 29. There is just simply no viable, reasonable mathematical path. So that is a huge change in our map here.
What is left on the board? Ohio is a toss-up. North Carolina is a toss-up. That is significant. But Hillary Clinton leads in North Carolina at the moment. And Ohio is a small Trump lead or a tie at the moment. So the race is very significant as we watch this play out. Donald Trump is going to walk on stage knowing there is nothing he can do in the debate to change one state at a time. Two states at a time. He is down eight points nationally. He is down hugely when you look at the electoral map. Donald Trump needs a fundamental change in the race tonight, Anderson. And if he doesn't get it, we are going into the final 19 days when it comes down to knots and bowls. And we know in that regard it is advantage Democrats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that is OK.
COOPER: Thanks for breaking it down by the number down on the map.
David Axelrod, I mean, can this third and final presidential debate change things around for Donald Trump?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, what is striking to me is I think back, it is only been a little more than three weeks that we first got together at that first debate. And the conversation at the debate was this race had narrowed. It was like a point or so in the aggregate polls separating them.
That is not the case now. Hillary Clinton has as large a lead or a larger lead than anybody. Barack Obama never had the lead that she has in polling right now. So it is hard for me to conceive that this event will change it. But I do think that it will be interesting to see what tact Donald Trump takes. Does he continue to try and fire up his base as he has been doing pretty much since that tape hit? Or does he try and turn towards issue distinctions that might broaden out his vote because rights now his base is not enough to win an election.
COOPER: He has been practicing, we were told in a way he really hasn't been in prior debates.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And I think that is good for him because he needs to practice. And if he is going to make these issues distinction that David talks about, we know that this debate (INAUDIBLE). They are going to talk about immigration, debt, the economy, the (INAUDIBLE). He has got to be able to go back and forth with her on those issues. That is (INAUDIBLE) for Hillary Clinton. She loves to talk about the issues so she can do that.
The question I have is does he continue to wage war against the Republican Party on this like Paul Ryan on this question of rigged election. Does he continue do that? We don't know. I think Hillary Clinton the balance of positive to negative has to be really high. She has got to stay on that high road because she has to convince people who don't like her and there are a lot of them out there. And when, they go into that voting booth even though they don't like her that she has the temperament and the experience.
[19:25:02] COOPER: But Michael, is there any reason to believe a different Donald Trump is going to show up tonight than who showed up in the last two debates?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely none. I mean, he has been the same Donald Trump from the starting gate, right. And I'm one of those who has continually sat here with you questioning, well, which Donald Trump will show up tonight. There is only been one Donald Trump.
And Anderson, whatever he is doing, it cannot working for him. So if there is ever a time to portray a different Donald Trump, it would be tonight. We are in Las Vegas. People like to talk in gambling terms. I like to put it in prize fighting terms. We are in the latter rounds now. And he is behind on points and he needs a knockout to turn this around. And I don't think that bringing the president's half-brother is the knockout blow. Frankly, I think it is going to take her stumbling. And she ought to go Muhammad Ali tonight. She ought to do a-rope-a-dope and incur whatever he is going to throw at her and run out the clock.
COOPER: It does seem, I mean, is that what you believe she has been doing, essentially trying to run out the clock and just sort of lay low all this time?
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well she probably has been doing a bit of that, I suspect. I would agree without much (INAUDIBLE). But I really think he has a wonderful opportunity to tie all of this together. All of this business essentially. The ruling class. The elite versus average Americans out there. And do it issue by issue. And use the Wikileaks, use the FBI, use the state department. These are all elites out there who in one form or another, these tapes from project Veritas here that shows the Democratic connection here with some balance of it. All of this, make that connection. Show the American people how that system works, how the system has been corrupted and make that case.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That would be a great message. Unfortunately, you don't have the messenger. And that's the great tragedy. If you are on the side of Donald Trump or any of these rebellions in the country, Hillary Clinton should be in deep trouble tonight. You know, you got now a bunch of things that the right person to put together and really put her on the offensive and force her to have explain and defend. I think she can explain and she can defend but she would have to do that.
You don't have a messenger who can do that because the reality is that even on the way to prosecute this case, he is turning it into a circus. He's bringing dancing bears, he bringing like, you know, weird clowns, all kind of nonsense that distracts from the basic point even before he gets to the stage.
AXELROD: You know, one thing that striking to me in the polling that just came out this week is that the advantage that Donald Trump had on the economy, the advantage that he had on trade, even the advantage that he had on immigration, all of those are gone. Because he's been so involved in this sort of shoring up the base, that he has lost that thread that had some promise to broaden it out.
JONES: And I want to hear you on this. I've been - feel to tell me I'm wrong. I don't think the tape of him saying the horrific things he said had to have been the end of the campaign. You had a bad tape. It wasn't President Obama but it was Jeremiah Wright who said things that are very offensive to people. But Barack Obama came to the American people in Philadelphia and he gave a speech that is one of the greatest speeches in American history. And he owned up but he also took us higher. When it was Trump's turn to deal with his tape, he took us lower. He
threw Bill Clinton under the bus. And I just think he missed the opportunity. This is a forgiving country. I'm sitting on this stage. This is a forgiving country. But he had the chance to ask for forgiveness and he blew it. That is the problem --
AXELROD: The difference between the two of course is that those weren't Barack Obama's words. And that makes it tougher. But I think what happened then is after that tape you saw a mass exodus of Republicans across the country. And he decided that he was going to fire up his base to t and keep those Republicans from leaving. And you know what? That actually worked in that a bunch of them came back. But it is not - it also drove a whole bunch of people he needs away if he has any hope of trying to change the dynamic.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he handled the debate very well. He apologized in the last debate. We saw contrition but he didn't dwell on it. He circled and he went on the offense against Hillary Clinton. He brought up all of the (INAUDIBLE) scandals against Clinton. And tonight he has a lot of ammo. When Jeff points to the FBI, it is startling that we have an FBI 302 form where literally a record management officer says that there is a quid pro quo offered him. Exact words for use in the FBI transcript. He talks about how this email is a problem. Multiple FBI officials were pressured to not classify this Clinton email. A revealing poll came out and 67 percent voters in the FOX poll set, they believe Hillary Clinton lied on her emails.
Well, tonight we have more evidence than before ever before on an FBI document. And if Donald Trump can prosecute that case and move to the issues like the economy, he can win his debate like he won the second.
COOPER: Maria, how about vulnerable issues?
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So - I think a couple of things. First of all, we heard from Jim Acosta that Trump advisors have already said he is going to go for Bannon. And tonight Trump is going to be Trump.
[19:30:00] Any night that Trump is going to be Trump is good for Hillary Clinton. So, that's number one.
Two, I think there is something a whole lot deeper here. We talk about likability and, by the way, her numbers on likability by the way are higher than his. But yes, she's had an issue on likability. But I think it goes deeper than that.
There was a Quinnipiac poll that came out today that said that 60 percent of the American people do not think that Donald Trump has a sense of decency. Fifty-five percent of the American people believe that Hillary Clinton has a sense of decency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
CARDONA: So that is a huge metric going into tonight that I think she can exploit with all the issues she has in front of her. NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I think
that is right. I think Kayleigh and Jeffrey here makes a great case for Donald Trump. And if he shows up in the way they think he should and sticks on the issues, he'll have a great night.
I think the problem is, in all of the days outside of the debates, Donald Trump has been focused on Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been focused on settling scores. Donald Trump had been focused on shaming women. And that has -- that has cost him and it is hard to see him turning that around tonight.
COOPER: We got to take a quick break. And we get closer to the main event tonight, we're getting ready to bring you a one on one, Trump surrogate Rudy Giuliani versus Clinton surrogate Mark Cuban. The debate before the debate, straight ahead.
[19:35:19] BURNETT: And we're back with a special edition of OUTFRONT on this debate night in America. So, what's really going to happen tonight from the presidential candidates?
Well, you are going to find out right now. Perhaps the best debate you will see of the entire evening. We have Rudy Giuliani here, of course, who has been an advisor, working for Donald Trump here, and Mark Cuban, supporter for Hillary Clinton. Two very outspoken men. Former mayor. Billionaire rival of Donald Trump I would say at this point in many ways.
All right. Mayor Giuliani, let me start with you, because of the topics that are going to come up, one of them is going to be fitness to be president.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: That's the last one on the list. I don't know if it could be last. But that's the last one on the list.
BURNETT: It may be last on the list, I don't know what order they're going to come up. But it is crucial, right? You can't win if people don't believe you're going to have the fitness.
GIULIANI: Sure, of course.
BURNETT: So most recent poll, "Washington Post"/ABC, 62 percent of Americans say Trump doesn't have the fitness to president, 59 percent say Hillary Clinton does have the temperament to be president. Why are 62 percent of people wrong?
GIULIANI: Well, you know, I can't analyze polls. You can do all kind of polling.
What he's going to have to do is demonstrate that he's fit to be president and that because of the FBI finding her extremely careless in the use of national security information, not only isn't she fit to be president, I couldn't hire her as an assistant U.S. attorney. She would have been disqualified as an assistant U.S. attorney. If that was on the background report of someone I was trying to hire or as an assistant U.S. attorney, I couldn't hire them because they have been extremely careless in the handling of sensitive government documents. That would be an automatic disqualifier.
And you look at all of those e-mails and you look at the way the Clinton Foundation was run, the pay-for-play operation at the State Department -- I mean, we're looking at somebody who if it wasn't for someone like Hillary Clinton like the general, for example, who's getting prosecuted for two pieces of information he confirmed, you've even put out, if she was anybody else, she'd be under indictment right now.
MARK CUBAN, DALLAS MAVERICKS OWNER: Can I respond?
CUBAN: And I say this with all due respect to Rudy Giuliani.
CUBAN: You are an American hero and I respect everything you have done. But everything you've just said is incorrect about Hillary Clinton, 100 percent absolutely incorrect. The way she handled documents when she was secretary of state was in hard copy. The only e-mails that she dealt with were e-mails that came her way but that were up classified and as we know, they are subject to a lot of discussion about what's actually classified.
The government has made an effort to have less classified documents. So, a big argument can be made about what's classified. And the same thing applies to the foundation. They actually do good work.
GIULIANI: Well, first of all, I'm not wrong about the fact that Jim Comey found her handling of her confidential government information to be extremely careless.
CUBAN: That is not what he said. That's not what he said. What he said was the group was. He didn't point to her specifically. He said the group was careless in how they handled the service.
GIULIANI: Se said she was extremely careless. He also went on to point out in the 302 you will note, she was asked, did she know what the designation C meant?
GIULIANI: She said she didn't.
BURNETT: And she had said, Mark, before, "Believe me, I know what classified is."
GIULIANI: Let me finish. If she doesn't know what the designation "C" means as secretary of state, she shouldn't be secretary. I was briefed in 1981, I remember my entry briefing, I know what C means. It means confidential. It is a level of classification.
She said she thought it was alphabetical order. The FBI never went on to ask, was there an A, a B, a D, or an E. That is a flat out lie to the FBI. Martha Stewart went to jail --
CUBAN: You're apples and the oranges, Mayor Giuliani, first of all, right?
GIULIANI: What's apple and oranges about that?
CUBAN: First of all, the classification, it was not market as classified. Now, I don't know about you, when I look at e-mails, I may not read every single word in a document.
GIULIANI: That makes you secretary of state.
GIULIANI: Or president.
CUBAN: You have thousands of things you are going to. You are not going to read. And by the way, when Donald Trump started talk about the little C markings, he got it wrong, he got it wrong. She only emailed with 13 people in total. That's it.
And so, of all those documents, most of them, it was just on the list. She wasn't even sourcing --
GIULIANI: If she didn't know, here's the way it looks. I'll show you how it looks. There is a parenthesis, right, and then there are two more.
CUBAN: That's not the point.
GIULIANI: And then it says C.
CUBAN: That's not the point.
GIULIANI: Let me finish. What that means to anyone who got a briefing by the FBI before they became secretary of state or as I was, attorney general, that means that's confidential top secret information. She said --
BURNETT: Having an email like that --
GIULIANI: She said --
CUBAN: Not a header.
GIULIANI: She said she didn't know what it meant. She said she didn't remember her briefing by the CIA. I remember my briefing by the CIA. How come she doesn't remember? She doesn't remember her exit interview by the CIA? Thirty-nine times during that interview, she couldn't remember.
Now, she either has a seriously flawed memory or she's lying. [19:40:01] CUBAN: You are pulling things, this is like out of the X-
files, Mayor Giuliani.
GIULIANI: No, they're out of the FBI file.
CUBAN: So, first of all, if a document is not marked classified, if a classified document is not marked classified than it is incorrectly marked, correct?
GIULIANI: No. Many documents that I obtained when I was associate attorney were not marked, I knew they were classified. I'll you give an example. I'll give you an example.
It was my job when I worked for President Reagan to approve FISA wires. I knew they were top secret, but I knew they were top secret by the very nature of the information contained in it. So, I had the power to mark it top secret, which is what she should have done. And when I saw a C --
CUBAN: So --
GIULIANI: Wait a set. When I saw a C, unlike her, I knew it was confidential. Now, that's a flat out lie.
CUBAN: First of all, she's an OCA, which means she has the opportunity to decide what is or is not classified, right? She made the professional decision it wasn't classified, as did the people who worked for her. Somebody disagreed. Disagreements are the common place. That is why there are hearings. That's why there are different departments that work for these things. That's why --
BURNETT: For the record, I want to make a point. The American people have an issue with the way she handled.
GIULIANI: Massive amounts.
BURNETT: But the bottom line is, when it comes to temperament to be president, they have an issue with Donald Trump not Hillary Clinton.
GIULIANI: OK, all right. Well, that he's also got to make the point.
GIULIANI: She got a subpoena from Congress and she destroyed 33,000 --
BURNETT: Why do you think he has the temperament --
GIULIANI: I think Donald Trump has the temperament to be president --
BURNETT: -- grabbing women's genitals and all these things.
GIULIANI: Because I think he's a person who has had a great deal of success in business and I think he has the ability to get things done. And I think he has the ability to change Washington.
Hillary Clinton is the poster child for basically getting rid of the situation in Washington. The rigged system in Washington. She's a poster child for term limits. She's been there forever and she's gotten nothing different. When she was senator of New York --
BURNETT: Hold on, let me give you a chance to respond, Mark.
GIULIANI: -- she promised upstate New York 220,000 jobs, they lost 300,000 jobs.
BURNETT: Great success in business.
CUBAN: Name any of his products that are still successful. He cheated -- cheated -- 6,000 people from Trump University. Hard- working men and women. He took more than 6,000 people, he took tens of thousands of dollars. That's success in business?
Trump games. Trump cards. Trump steaks. Trump clothes. Trump -- you know, when somebody has to give their name and sell their name that often, that tells me they are desperate.
He has not had a long track record in business. I give him credit he's done okay in real estate. But everything else, he's been a major failure at. And now, he's crushing his brands.
His -- the operations and success of his hotels and his club is declining rapidly as we speak, and it makes no sense what he's doing because everything he says hurts his brand even more.
GIULIANI: Well, the fact is, I was just at his hotel. It was fabulous. I was at Doral. Doral is terrific. His two golf courses in Scotland are two of the best golf courses in the world. He's had great success in business. He has --
CUBAN: Why all the failures?
GIULIANI: Everyone's had failures.
CUBAN: Yes, but not that many.
GIULIANI: I had failures in elections.
CUBAN: Not that many.
GIULIANI: Everybody has failures in business.
CUBAN: He's sued 3,500 times. I've been sued less than ten. GIULIANI: The school situations -- well, when I was mayor, I was sued
CUBAN: Little different. That's a different position. But in business --
GIULIANI: People doing bold things sometimes fail.
CUBAN: Trump steaks is bold? Trump card games is -- whatever.
GIULIANI: He's made great success. He's got a great empire now and he represents change from Washington as opposed to 30 years.
CUBAN: He lost $990 million in 1995.
BURNETT: We're going to take a break and come back and talk much more about what 53 percent of this population needs here tonight. We'll be right back.
[19:47:50] BURNETT: And we are back with our debate before a debate. And I promised here that we were going talk about something, 53 percent of the population care about -- actually, I'm going to change my tone here. A hundred percent care about it, because everybody should care about this issue.
All right. The issue of Donald Trump's treatment of women. Mayor, I believe personally this is a very substantive issue for the campaign.
GIULIANI: I believe it is, too.
BURNETT: So, when he' responded to multiple women that have come forward. Some of the things he said in recent days, that they are horrible, horrible liars, they are reprehensible people. And of one of the women, "believe me, she would not be my first choice."
Are those the words that you should be using to talk about these women who are accusing him?
GIULIANI: Let's put it in context. He apologized for the terrible language he used. He admitted it was terrible language. He shouldn't have used it on that tape with Billy Bush, about 10 years ago, 12 years ago.
And then these women come forward. All of a sudden, kind of orchestrated, all at the same time, using kind of a script. All the same thing -- groping, groping, groping, groping. And he believes, knows it's untrue.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you -- I want Mark to jump in here.
GIULIANI: And he is justifiably upset about the allegations. Very little attention has been given to the witnesses that come out that corroborate the fact that this may not be true. Including the English gentlemen who observed something totally different, relative to the another one.
BURNETT: Gentlemen may not be the right word.
GIULIANI: I don't know, whatever he is.
BURNETT: Let me just say here because this is important.
GIULIANI: Nobody's perfect. My witnesses use to be terrible sometimes.
BURNETT: I know a woman this happened to, with Donald Trump, all right? I know her story to be true. So, again, I just ask you this. Are you positive that he never did anything? Because the reason these women --
GIULIANI: I have known him --
BURNETT: Anderson Cooper asked the question and that man just lied --
GIULIANI: I have known him for 28 years, I've never seen him do anything remotely close to that. I have known men who are touchy feely. I know men who sometimes seem to act inappropriately in the way they touch or handle women. I don't like it.
But Donald Trump is not one of them. He's always been a gentleman with women.
[19:50:01] My wife and I both have been with him often. My daughters, and he has always treated them gentlemanly, courteously.
GIULIANI: Kind of courtly.
BURNETT: Courtly? Do you believe him or do you believe the nine women who have come forward?
CUBAN: No, I mean, who knows if it's all true? But I know, too, that they won't come forward, and I know with absolutely certainty they told me back in 2000, her boyfriend and her, she's not going to come forward. I know another woman, it happened in Chicago two years ago. Neither was sexual assault. In one case, he walked into a massage room where she was under a sheet getting massage and hit on her. In other case, it was a rude comment in an elevator.
But to me, when something goes wrong he never owns it, right? He did come out and say, you know what? I made mistakes in my past. It is always a conspiracy theory. It's always somebody is out to get him.
GIULIANI: That's not true.
CUBAN: What's he owned? GIULIANI: Well, he's owned the fact that he -- that tape recorder was
CUBAN: Well, because it was a tape. He had no choice.
GIULIANI: Correct, and it was the wrong thing do.
CUBAN: How can you disavow a tape?
GIULIANI: And he's apologized for it.
BURNETT: Let me ask a question to you --
GIULIANI: And earlier on he apologized if he had hurt anyone in some of the comments he had made around the time of the (INAUDIBLE)
BURNETT: So, I understand you believe. If you changed your mind or someone came to you and told you a story you believed, would it change your support for Donald Trump? If all of a sudden, something happens and you know that it --
GIULIANI: I'm not going to engage in hypothetical. Look, if somebody came to you and said Hillary Clinton murdered someone and you believed it, would you change your mind about her?
GIULIANI: OK. Ah. But that is a hypothetical.
BURNETT: He answered the hypothetical.
GIULIANI: I don't believe it.
BURNETT: You are not going to answer the hypothetical.
GIULIANI: I do not believe it. He's my friend. I know him. I've seen him with women.
In fact, my wife will tell you this is one of the last things he would think of Donald Trump, of the bad things you might think of or the inappropriate things and I don't think many bad things of him at all. But the reality is this is the last thing you would think of.
BURNETT: So, I just want to be clear, Mark, when you talk your examples. These are people you know, one was a friend. The other is a friend of a friend.
CUBAN: Well, the first one was a friend who was dating a friend of mine and they told me the story contemporaneously.
CUBAN: And I had forgotten about it until got back in touch with me. Another one was a woman who contacted me and told me the story because she knew of my interest. And I asked her, would you consider coming forward? And she said, no, and I just left it at that. The other woman is married with kids, doesn't want to deal with, and I don't blame her. I wouldn't interject to that.
BURNETT: You have known Donald Trump a long time.
CUBAN: Not well.
BURNETT: Not incredibly close friends, but you know him and obviously you both are reality television stars. Do you believe him?
CUBAN: Which part?
BURNETT: You don't believe this. You believe the women?
CUBAN: Yes, ma'am. Without question.
GIULIANI: Of course, Bill Clinton should have been removed from office.
CUBAN: If he was running, it would be an issue.
GIULIANI: On this standard, Bill Clinton did far worse than anything Donald Trump.
BURNETT: And, of course, we can't corroborate --
GIULIANI: Oh, we can corroborate a few.
CUBAN: He's not running Mr. Mayor. He's not running.
BURNETT: I'm talking about the stories that Mark were saying. We can't corroborate --
GIULIANI: But we can corroborate Monica Lewinsky taking advantage of an intern, it's something you get fired for as the CEO of a company. So, you would say to me --
BURNETT: Why does that matter for her? Why do you believe that matters --
GIULIANI: Well, it matters because you have to deal with these things equally and fairly. And you're not.
BURNETT: She's not the one who --
GIULIANI: What about the one they gave to $185,000 to?
BURNETT: Assaulted anyone or allegedly assaulted anyone.
GIULIANI: But he didn't just assault them. He had sex with them. It went beyond that.
BURNETT: Right, but I'm saying it's not with her.
GIULIANI: Raped one, he took advantage of an intern.
CUBAN: He's not running.
GIULIANI: And it was okay for him to be in office. That was okay. Let him to stay in office?
CUBAN: So, now, we're going to question Melania, Mrs. Trump, and how she dealt with it?
GIULIANI: Melania Trump dealt wit it by saying that she accepts his explanation of it.
CUBAN: Not the point. We shouldn't judge her for dealing with such a difficult situation anything more than we should judge Hillary Clinton for something her husband did twenty years ago.
GIULIANI: Well, these women who came forward a few weeks ago said she attacked him. You can see it in the book, in Stephanopoulos book, in the half novelized Joe Klein book, the bimbo squad that was set up to go after the women that Bill Clinton and the illegitimate children that he may have had.
CUBAN: The illegitimate children that were disproven.
GIULIANI: All right. It was disproven. Or was it?
CUBAN: But that's the whole thing. You talk about you don't like to deal with hypotheticals but then you go-
GIULIANI: Monica Lewinsky wasn't disproven. Monica Lewinsky would be in an insane asylum if she didn't have that dress. They were trying to drive that woman insane. Lucky she had the dress to prove that Bill Clinton was a flat out liar under oath and so is Hillary Clinton.
CUBAN: This is the issue. It is dealing with external situations that don't directly reflect either candidate. This is a situation --
GIULIANI: So, let's forget both their pasts and talk about the future. Who would be better for the future? Somebody who lowers taxes or somebody who raises taxes?
CUBAN: So, let's talk about the taxes.
GIULIANI: Someone who renegotiates trade deals or.
CUBAN: Let's talk --
GIULIANI: Someone who stands up to ISIS and is willing to say Islamic extremist terrorism, and puts us on offense so we stop being on defense. We've had more Islamic terrorism attacks.
BURNETT: She has used Islamic terrorists. Barack Obama doesn't --
CUBAN: Can we talk about taxes first?
BURNETT: I'm going to give you the final chance for rebuttal right now.
CUBAN: OK, on taxes. He's increasing spending. He wants to increase infrastructure spending, healthcare spending, everything. He's trying to one up her in all spends and he's going to reduce taxes.
With everything Steve Moore has tried to come up with, any of the potential upside is in years nine and ten. In years one through four, when he might be president, the deficit goes through the roof. We have a real chance of being in recession because he wants to cut taxes dramatically and increase spending dramatically. That doesn't work.
GIULIANI: Not if you score properly renegotiating trade deals. Not if you score properly returning capital from overseas at a 10 percent.
CUBAN: That isn't correct. That is incorrect.
GIULIANI: Not -- can I finish.
CUBAN: You're wrong. You are wrong.
GIULIANI: But you say I'm wrong.
CUBAN: You are wrong.
GIULIANI: I am not wrong. This is what Kennedy did. This is what Reagan did. I worked for Reagan.
BURNETT: Kennedy cut taxes like 92 percent. OK, that is very different than we are now.
GIULIANI: I was with Ronald Reagan when he cut taxes and I saw her economy boom for ten years. So, he's -- but he's going beyond cutting taxes. He's also bringing businesses back by reducing the corporate rates from 35 percent to 15 percent, which you have to admit drives companies out of the United States. He's having a 10 percent repatriation rate that will bring an enormous amount back in. That's something Kennedy and Reagan did not do and he's going to renegotiate NAFTA.
CUBAN: First of all, the people who have money to repatriate can borrow against that money. So, that's not an issue, right? Moving companies overseas is a small issue but --
GIULIANI: It isn't a small issue if you lost your job --
GIULIANI: If I lost my job because Pfizer moves its factory to Ireland because they only have a 12 --
CUBAN: They don't move their factories. They move their home base. They don't move factories.
GIULIANI: -- percent rate in Ireland, 35 percent in the United States.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both. This will be continued tonight at 9:00. Like to have you both back. Thank you.
GIULIANI: I hope they shake hands.
BURNETT: They shook hands and now let's go to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Erin, thanks very much.
We got a special guest from the Trump campaign, the Republican vice presidential nominee Mike Pence.
Governor, thanks very much for joining us.
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Good to be with you in this exciting night.
TAPPER: So, let me just ask you. Obviously, Donald Trump can rally the base. There is no question about it that.
PENCE: Rally the American people.
TAPPER: Well, no. That's not obvious, 39 to 40 percent of the American people are with him.
Does he understand that right now the polls have Hillary Clinton leading significantly nationally and background states are shifting towards him and he needs to not just rally the base but add voters to the roles? Get people in the I-4 corridor in Florida, the Denver suburbs, the Philadelphia suburbs. Does he understand that he needs to expand and reach out?
PENCE: Well, the short answer is yes. But I see it every day. I've been in Ohio this week, in North Carolina this week. I've seen the crowds that turn out for Donald Trump at these rallies.
And he's really given voice to the frustrations and the aspirations of the American people like no one in my lifetime since Ronald Reagan. And the people that come from literally every walk of life out of these rallies give evidence of that.
But I think what you are going to hear tonight is Donald Trump is going to be focusing not -- as a choice. I mean, my hope is that he'll have an opportunity to talk about the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and talk about the issues that are emanating around her years as secretary of state and the Clinton foundation.
But I also hope -- I also hope tonight as the final debate really focuses on the big issues, where we under this last seven and a half years, we've weakened America's place in the world. There's wider areas of the world literally spinning apart.
The American economy is struggling. The Supreme Court is literally on the ballot. My hope is that tonight, he'll have an opportunity to really draw into high relief the clear choice in this election on all those issues.
TAPPER: Superficial question, but the Clinton campaign has arranged it so that the families, Melania Trump and Bill Clinton are not going to intersect and shake hands. They say that is because of the stunts that the Trump campaign pulled in the second debate with those guests of note.
Will Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton shake hands tonight? Because that was an odd moment and one that I thought was slightly discordant with the collegiality that you like to stand for.
PENCE: Well, we'll just see. Probably will be a spontaneous moment, for both of them.
But, you know, I know -- I know that -- frankly I know these things are fascinating to many of you in the media. But when I'm traveling around the country, the American people really are focused on a stronger and more prosperous America.
My hope is tonight that beyond the small details that will be widely discussed and probably will be Twitter fodder out there, is that you will really have an opportunity to see the tremendous clear choice between Donald Trump who wants to bring rebuild our military, cut taxes, repeal Obamacare, end the war on coal, expand access to American energy.