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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Campaigns in Pennsylvania; Trump: "We Have a Bunch of Babies Running Our Country"; Trump: It's a Rigged System; Trump's Diehard Supporters; Clinton's Campaign Endgame; The GOP's Trump Headache; GOP Tries Damage Control; GOP Grapples with How to Deal with Trump; Trump Could Lose Utah to Little-Known Candidate; Largely Unknown Candidate Could Win Utah; "Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown" in London; New Anthony Bourdain Episode Airs Sunday. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 21, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:01:43] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: ... harming Republican House and Senate candidates and a growing effort to continue the damage which is not stopping Donald Trump. CNN's Sara Murray tonight reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a bunch of babies running our country, folks. We have a bunch of losers. They're losers, they're babies.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: A sharp elbow Donald Trump is shrugging aside his sagging poll numbers today, and vowing to hustle through the final stretch.
TRUMP: Win, lose, or draw, and I'm almost sure, if the people come out, we're going to win. But I will be -- I will be happy with myself. Because I always say, I don't want to think back, if only I did one more rally, I would have won North Carolina.
MURRAY: The GOP nominee still claiming the election is rigged.
TRUMP: It's a rigged system. It's a rigged system. Don't ever forget it. That's why you've got to get out and vote. You've got to watch.
MURRAY: As Trump's complaints became mere fodder for laugh lines for Hillary Clinton Thursday evening.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald looks at the Statue of Liberty and sees a four. Maybe a five if she loses the torch and tablet and changes her hair.
MURRAY: That's as the two traded the barbs at the annual Al Smith dinner to benefit Catholic charity.
TRUMP: The media is even more biased this year than ever before. Ever. You want a proof? Michelle Obama gives a speech and everyone loves it. It's fantastic. They think she's absolutely great. My wife, Melania, gives the exact same speech and people get on her case. MURRAY: But at times, Trump's jokes were, perhaps, too pointed, even drawing boos from the crowd. Despite the tension, today Cardinal Dolan had this to say about how the candidates interacted off-camera.
TRUMP: And after the little prayer, Mr. Trump turned to Secretary Clinton and said, you know, you are one tough and talented woman. And he said, this has been a great -- a good experience in this whole campaign, as tough as it's been. And she said to him, and Donald, whatever happens, we need to work together after this.
MURRAY: With the major political moments, the convention, the debates behind him, it remains unclear how Trump hopes to turn his fortunes around. But he is certainly relishing the lighter moments, at rallies packed with his faithful supporters.
TRUMP: I just got caught in the rain. I'm soaking wet. How does my hair look? Is it OK?
MURRAY: Sara Murray, CNN, Johnstown, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Donald Trump may be looking to add women, independents, and suburban moderates to his coalition, however, he also has to keep his base energized enough to stand by him through election day and come out to vote no matter what the polls look like over the few weeks.
Our Gary Tuchman wanted to get a better idea of where their heads are right now. Here's what he discovered at one of the Trump rallies today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bucks County, Pennsylvania, is a swing county in a swing state. So these Donald Trump supporters are particularly valuable commodities for the Republican nominee.
JANET ROMM, TRUMP SUPPORTER: And he really did not have to run at all. He just felt like he needed to save America at this time.
[21:05:05] TUCHMAN: But are there enough of these voters? Polls show Trump's significantly behind Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania.
DONNA KROHMAN, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I don't believe the polls. I think the media is corrupt.
LARRY HARRIS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: He will win. He will win. Without a doubt.
TUCHMAN: There is a widespread feeling at rallies like this that it's disloyal to cast any doubts on a Donald Trump victory and on his pronouncement that polls are rigged.
VICKI SELLERS, TRUMP SUPPORTERS: I think it's a -- the polls are not true. And I think he's going to -- I think he's going to be up there and he's going to make it and he's going to win.
TUCHMAN: With all due respect, is it possible that maybe they are true?
SELLERS: I don't think they are.
TUCHMAN: But there are some Trump loyalists who feel differently than they did from even a few weeks ago.
Are you concerned at this point now that the debates are over that he may not win?
HARRIS: Sure, sure. I think everybody here that's in the back of their mind.
PHIL HADAD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: There's always a concern, but he's the beginning of something new. Independents, different people than who have been in there. I would love to see them all come out, out of the woodwork, and start running.
TUCHMAN: But in the meantime, those who express complete confidence in a Trump November 8th victory and those who do not are all happy to offer advice. Some saying, don't change a thing.
ROMM: If it's not natural for him, if it's not really him, then I think he should continue to be him, exactly him. He doesn't need someone to polish him off.
TUCHMAN: Others saying ...
REBA GRADY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think he needs to keep pounding his policies, and the things he's going to do for American, to make America great.
TUCHMAN: Do you think he should continue pounding Hillary Clinton?
GRADY: I think he needs to let that go.
BOB GRADY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Take the negative out of it. Just talk about the positive things, what he's going to do.
TUCHMAN: Micaela Saracino says she still believes Donald Trump will be the next president, but.
If Donald Trump asked you, give me some advice to attract the voters I need to win the White House, what would you say to him?
MICAELA SARACINO, TRUMP SUPPORTER: A little bit of a filter.
TUCHMAN: Donald Trump is their candidate, but for some, the reflecting has begun on what happens if he doesn't win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be sad, but you go on.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: And Gary Tuchman joins us now. Are you finding any less enthusiasm at Trump rallies over the last couple of weeks as he's faced these less-favorable poll numbers?
TUCHMAN: I think the contrary, Anderson. I think people are more enthusiastic and more passionate when they see Donald Trump at these rallies. They're very invested. And this is crunch time. It's the end of October going into November. We see that historically in elections past whether you're losing in the polls, leading in the polls, tied the in the polls, people know it's your last chance to come out and be enthusiastic. And this place erupted, not surprisingly, when Donald Trump said, we will win the State of Pennsylvania.
But what was more notable because -- it was a little more surprising, it was actually quite surprising and very un-Trump like. At one point Donald Trump said this, "You've got to go out and vote, got to turn this thing around." And as I said, Anderson, that was up-Trump like. Back to you.
COOPER: Gary, thanks very much.
Now, Hillary Clinton running well in Pennsylvania, way ahead in Virginia in Colorado, she has the luxury to be able to focus on just a few battleground states, not all of them, which might explain why she did her campaigning today in Ohio. More from our Jeff Zeleny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I have now spent 4 1/2 hours on-stage with Donald, proving once again I have the stamina to be president.
JEFF ZELENY, SENIOR WASHINGTON CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton back on the campaign trail in Cleveland. Her face-to-face showdowns with Donald trump behind her. Clinton is hoping to capitalize on her rising momentum, a trying to turn a positive corner.
CLINTON: I know you may still have questions for me. I respect that. I want to answer them. I want to earn your vote. I am reaching out to all Americans, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents.
ZELENY: Yet she's hardly resting easy, as her campaign braces for more fallout from e-mail stolen from campaign chair, John Podesta. Another batch today from WikiLeaks, confirming bad blood between Clinton and Al Gore, after he declined to endorse her last fall. Top Clinton aide, Huma Abedin writing, hard to put on e-mail, but there is no love lost in this relationship. She added later, no, it's bad. Clinton aides say that' all in the past, pointing to Gore's appearance last week with Clinton in Miami.
CLINTON: I can't wait to have Al Gore advising me, when I am president of the United States.
ZELENY: The e-mails also exposing questions about whether Secretary Clinton would attend a Clinton Foundation summit in Morocco, a month after announcing her bid for the presidency. The e-mails suggest her appearance was in exchange for a $12 million contribution from the king of Morocco. Again, Abedine writing, it would break a lot China now to back out when we had so many opportunities to do it in the past few months. She created this mess and she knows it.
[21:10:04] In the end, Clinton did not go. The Clinton campaign hoping to drown out these distractions with a powerful new television ad. It features Khizr Khan, the Gold Star father who spoke at the Democratic convention about his son, a Muslim American who died serving in Iraq.
KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR FATHER: I want to ask Mr. Trump, would my son have a place in your America?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Jeff joins us now. Any sense of why the Clinton campaign is going back to the Khan family in this new commercial?
ZELENY: Anderson, if there is one moment from this Trump campaign the Clinton team believes symbolizes why he is unfit for the presidency, they believe it is captured in that ad. That's why they're running it now in battleground states across the country. They believe that moment from this summer, after the Democratic convention, when Donald Trump tangled with this Gold Star family, really symbolized what many people didn't like about him, and again, his fitness for office.
So that is one of the final closing ads that they intend to use here, Anderson. There might be a couple more here in these final two weeks. But this ad, they believe, is a powerful one that will keep running. Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny. Jeff thanks very much.
Coming up next, why Republicans, even top Republicans, like, House Speaker Paul Ryan, are feeling boxed in by Donald Trump.
And later, Evan McMullin, you'll recall, he's running for president, and you'll certainly get a reminder if he wins the state, which the polls say he just might. The state is Utah, and the story behind his rise at Trump expense is so much about this race.
[21:15:11] COOPER: You can see it in the Pat Toomey's, the Kelly Ayotte's of the campaign world. Republicans and incumbents on Capitol Hill stymied by Donald Trump at the top of the ticket, not sure whether to endorse him and tap into his loyal following or disavow him and reach for moderates and independents. Some like the centers and House Speaker Paul Ryan are caught in the middle. Others are speaking out against him and could end up pay a political price.
Meantime, ads are starting going up from GOP-friendly organizations, not mentioning Trump by name, but suggesting he'll lose. They're pushing Republican Congress is the only way to contain a Clinton presidency. More on the effort and the fear behind it from CNN's Manu Raju.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MANU RAJU, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: GOP officials now fear that if Donald Trump loses by a landslide, he could take down the congressional majorities with him.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN, (R) TEXAS. Not only my concerned about the presidential race, I'm concerned about what t impact on down-ballot races, including the Senate.
RAJU: In New Hampshire, Republican somewhat they're treating a Trump defeat as a foregone conclusion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maggie Hassan's record.
RAJU: With an ad that attacks Democrat Maggie Hassan by saying voters need a GOP majority to keep a Clinton White House in check.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just imagine what she'd do unchecked in Washington with a new president.
RAJU: If Clinton wins, Democrats need four seats to take back the Senate majority. Republican seats in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire are in danger of flipping. Democrats now have a serious shot at winning in red states like Indiana, North Carolina, and Missouri. And the battle for retiring Senate Democratic Leader, Harry Reid's seat in Nevada is a true toss-up. Reid tried to tie Republican Joe Heck to Donald Trump.
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) MINORITY LEADER: This man we have running for the Senate here in Nevada, who's a mini Trump Joe Heck.
RAJU: Heck revoked his endorsement of Trump after the GOP nominee's vulgar words about women were caught on a hot mic.
REP. JOE HECK, (R) SENATE CANDIDATE, NEVADA: I cannot, in good conscience, continue to support Donald Trump.
RAJU: Current opponent, Catherine Cortez Masto, is not letting up.
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, (D) SENATE CANDIDATE, NEVADA: After nine months of being his biggest supporter and realizing now that Donald Trump's ship is sinking, and now he's trying to scurry off it to save his own political career. No, you don't get credit for that.
RAJU: And in the House, Trump has become so toxic ...
PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: How about it, huh?
RAJU: That speaker Paul Ryan is scrambling to prevent Democrats from picking up the 30 seats they need to win back the majority. But Ryan's refusal to defend Trump is causing some conservatives to threaten his speakership.
REP. MARK MEADOWS, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: A lot of the people who believe so desperately that we need to put Donald Trump in the White House, they question the loyalty of the Speaker. So I do think that they will be discussions after believe that there will be real discussions after November 8th on who our leadership will be and what that will look like going forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, Manu, is Paul Ryan really at risk of losing his leadership post?
RAJU: Well, Anderson, he's really in a difficult position. A lot of it depends on how big the House GOP majority is after the election. That is assuming they win the majority. You know, they're expected to lose right now upwards about of 20 seats or so. If they lose 30, they lose the majority. Now, many Republican moderates are expected to lose. That means that conservatives could add even more sway in the next election.
Now Ryan will face a speaker vote on the floor, where he cannot afford to lose many votes to get the 218 needed to be re-elected speaker. He already lost ten the last time he ran. So every vote will count, while -- so at the moment, now Anderson, Ryan is raising a lot of money across the country, trying to save the majority, but he has not spoken out about Trump, since the release of that "Access Hollywood" video.
And while Ryan is privately saying he can't defend him, if he were to outwardly criticize Trump, he could anger those same House conservatives he needs to be re-elected speaker. Anderson?
COOPER: Manu Raju, thanks.
RAJU: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, for a party that used to be known for falling in line, this is more than just a departure. Could be a real threat. At the very least, it's fascinating to look at.
Joining us, two people who have certainly seen a lot, CNN Political Commentator and former top Obama campaign guru, David Axelrod, and the Atlantic's James Fallows himself a veteran of the Carter's administration.
David, these Republican members who are worried about losing their seats, trying to figure out what to do about Trump. I mean, they've had a year and a half to try to come up with some kind of plan. Isn't it a little late to start panicking now?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, with I think that his position has eroded, and so, as particularly in these swing districts and swing states, battleground states, they're in this awkward position of having to choose between their base and swing voters.
So the swing voters want to see themselves separate themselves out from Donald Trump. But the base is very restive and does not and resents peeling away, in Nevada, for example. Joe Heck who was a very promising candidate, congressman running for the Senate there, separated himself from Trump after the video and there was a huge backlash among his base. Now he's trapped the between a rock and hard place. [21:20:07]
COOPER: Right. I mean, that's going to damned their going to do, damned is they don't.
AXELROD: Exactly, exactly.
COOPER: James, as far as you know. I mean, is there any historical parallel to this, down-ballot Republicans trying to distance themselves from the top of the ticket in the last days of campaigning?
JAMES FALLOWS, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTIC: Well, I'm trying to think, because I'm sure David has too a previous cases in recent memory when you knew somebody was going to lose badly. Walter Mondale in '84, James McGovern in '72. The party was certainly badly split in '72 time, but you didn't find Democrats having to peel themselves off from McGovern to try to avoid troubles there.
So, I think as with so many things and Trump we have not seen in our lifetime anything exactly like this, where, as David said, there's an almost impossible choice for a lot of these Republicans, if they do denounce Trump in any way, they see the kind of backlash that Paul Ryan saw when he tried to distance himself. And if they don't, they're really are giving up hopes for a lot of the uncommitted vote. So I think it is one more new thing we're seeing.
COOPER: And David, if Republican voters don't show up, because they think the election is rigged, isn't the down-ballot races, especially the close ones that -- isn't those races that could really feel the ramifications of that?
AXELROD: I do think that. I think that there's a turnout issue whether they think. They don't show up because they think it's rigged or more likely because they think it's over, they're -- you know, this hurts down-ballot -- it hurts down-ballot candidates.
And it's also a concern on the Democratic side, although you hear on democratic side, growing enthusiasm about the fact that there's going to be a decent turnout. But the fear is that if voters keep getting told that this thing is going to be a blowout and that it's over, that there's some member of Democratic voters or independent voters leaning Democrat, who won't come because they're not that enthused about Hillary, and as long as she's going to win, they may stay away.
COOPER: James, do you think the Trump message that the election is rigged -- do you think that actually does -- I mean I guess initially, his thought was that it's going to fire up, you know, Republicans to come out and, you know, overcome the rigged system in his opinion. But it does seem like it could also do the reverse, that is kind of worst get out the vote strategy possible.
FALLOWS: You would certainly think that. And this, again, is the thousand illustration of case were its hard to match the strategy as you would think it in any normal world of winning a campaign is where Donald Trump is doing. Because the rigged talk should depressed turnout. In a lot of thing I'm in a very and should to see from a lot of Democrats and the next. I'm sorry there's a lot of Republicans next two weeks.
They're most potent argument you would think would be. OK, we're going to lose the presidency. So it's all the more important to hold the Senate and hold the House.
COOPER: David, I think -- go ahead David.
AXELROD: The one place, Anderson. The one place where that may work is among donors. Right now, and there was a piece in the "Wall Street Journal" this week about the fact that Democrats are swamping Republicans in some of these key senate races, and there's a huge gap. I think that was a clarion call to some of these Republican donors to come into these races. I expect to see a flood of Republican money into these battleground Senate races, in the coming days, as a result of concerns that they're going to lose the Senate.
COOPER: Jim, what do you think happens afterward? I mean, the Hugh Hewitt, conservative talk show host this week, predicted that if Trump does, in fact, lose, that the main street Republicans, small business owners, they'll all quickly and gladly revert back to the Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell wing of the party? Do you agree with him?
FALLOWS: Oh, this is the next great stage in American political evolution that I'm sure we're going to be talking about for months and months and years and years, which is what lesson the party take from what seems like a likely Trump defeat now, how big a defeat it is. Who takes blame for it, whether they can say, well, this is some aberration, if he's run as a real conservative, he would have won whether the Reince Priebus message of four years ago, which we have to reach out to women, minorities, whether that will prevail.
So I think we are se seeing the beginning of a political internal debate and evolution or devolution unlike anything we've seen for decades.
COOPER: Right, David, to that idea, post-Trump, does he become just like Sarah Palin, who, you know, had a bit of a following for a while, but then ends up, you know, doing shows, reality show in Alaska?
AXELROD: No, and I don't think he's going to go quietly into the night. I've heard Republicans, actually, articulate -- Republicans who aren't supporting Trump, that it might be in their interest to see a bigger blowout, because then won't be any ambiguity about it. It will be have been a disaster, whereas if it's -- if it's relatively close, then there'll be this civil war within the party, as to who is responsible for underming Trump.
I think Paul Ryan's in a very difficult position, because of the House seats that are going to be lost, almost all of them are going to be among relatively moderate Republican House members, mostly in the suburbs, who were hurt by Trump.
[21:25:03] And it's going to leave Ryan with a more reactionary caucus and a smaller caucus. So all the headaches that he had running the caucus last time may be greater. Now, there could be the Hugh Hewitt effect, but that sounds like wishful thinking to me. COOPER: David Axelrod and James Fellows, guys, thanks so much.
AXELROD: OK. Thank you.
COOPER: Just for the record, I like reality shows in Alaska. "Ice Road Truckers." what's better?
We'll continue our discussion, next. What the panel thinks about the GOP's down-ballot blues, when we come back.
COOPER: As we talked about before the break, some Republicans concerned now that Donald trump is going to lose so bigly, so to speak, that he could take the party's majority in Congress down with him.
Let's find out what the panel thinks. Do you think there's truth to that? Or what would you advise down-ballot Republicans, who are kind of wavering on -- because polls show there's -- if they disavow Donald Trump, they get hurt by his supporters, but if they, embrace him, some more moderates or independents, you know, disavow them?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I would advise them to do exactly what Marco Rubio did and exactly what Reince Priebus has done. You know Marco Rubio said on day one, I signed a pledge, I support him. But he's not hesitant to say where he disagrees.
[21:30:03] Reince Priebus has done the same. You know, he distanced himself when the video came out, but he wholeheartedly said, "This is what the people shows and I'm behind it." And I think that's a clear path. You can support someone but not agree with every single thing they say or do.
COOPER: It's interesting Andre. I mean, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, they've been kind of radio silent on this now for a while. You were advising people, the Republican so basically embrace the issues, not necessarily the person.
ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Absolutely. There are things that I disagree with Donald Trump about. But wholeheartedly I support him.
I'm going to vote for him and I will do everything I can to help him get elected, because as a whole, what I think he can do for this country is far better than not only the Democrat nominee but what the other Republican nominees.
He was willing to tackle tough issues that quite frankly as a politician haven't been willing to engage in discussions because of fear of blow back. And we're at a time now in this country where I do think we have to establish what our borders are. I mean that's clearly I think is a tough discussion that most people don't want to enter into.
It's tough to say, we've got to cut out things or reduce spending to get our budget back in order. Nobody wants to do those things and we keep seeing us go down the same old road.
And so I think they need to embrace those policies, which had him rise to where he is today.
COOPER: Carlos, is that the way down-ballot Republicans should deal with this?
CARLOS WATSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, OZY.COM: You know, I think down-ballot Republicans are going to have a tough time no matter what they do. And I -- obviously we're talking about Nevada and Pennsylvania, even thinking about places like Florida.
The place that I think a lot about for down-ballot Republicans is a congressional race, 16 district around Kister (ph) where Republicans have held it for who knows how long open seat. If they lose that, I actually do think that Paul Ryan and the speakership could be in trouble.
You know, we talk about 20 new votes, but I think that's a canary in the coal mine. I think Pennsylvania matters for lots of reasons, including what can happen in the House.
COOPER: They are so -- though, I mean, for all the talk of destroying the Republican Party, there's still a lot of issues in the Democratic Party, as well. The huge Sanders coalition that you were part who want to see big change, it's not like they've all coalesced by Clinton.
And particularly as these WikiLeaks e-mails have come out they, you know, had those come out during the primary that would have been even a much bigger deal for Secretary Clinton.
BILL PRESS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Oh, I think the WikiLeaks e-mails, in fact, reinforce and confirm everything that, we, Bernie people were saying about the DNC and the Clinton campaign colluding against Bernie in the beginning. But that's then. This is now.
And now there is, for -- speaking for the Bernie camp, if you will, there's no doubt, if you really believe in the progressive agenda, you have no choice between one of these two candidates and Hillary Clinton has already embraced most of it, and she certainly is the best shot of achieving the rest of it.
But I have to say, look, I was Democratic state chair of California, so Republican Party doesn't normally call on me for advice. But my advice of down-ballot Republicans right now is run for the hills.
Put as much distance as you can between yourself and Donald Trump, if you want to save your seat and I think that's what the Republican Party is doing. We saw this ad ...
COOPER: But don't you alienate all those Trump supporters who are going to be coming out on Election Day?
PRESS: Look, I think you make it -- Kevin said that earlier. You make it local, you make -- and you sell yourself as the alternative to a Hillary Clinton rubber stamp in the senate. That's this ad that the Chamber of Commerce is running, saying, "You need a Republican Senate to counter a Democratic presidency." Only salvation.
MCENANY: The problem with what you're saying, though, is the long game. You just laid out the recipe to become the next Eric Cantor. That is to say the next establishment Republican who loses in a primary to a no-name professor and no media organization was even monitoring that election. That is the recipe to become the next person who loses your seat in a Republican primary.
PRESS: I think the choice is, do you lose the White House, which you've already lost, or do you lose the White House, the Senate, and the House? And that's the choice, facing Republicans today.
WATSON: I think there's a third way for Republicans, which I think the phrase is Supreme Court. And I think that it's very credible for any Republican running, saying, "No matter what happens, the next president is going to get to select two, maybe three nominees."
And if it is Secretary Clinton who becomes the president-elect, you don't want the Democrats to have that. And so I'd be talking the Supreme Court as hard as I could knowing that two to three votes, maybe four could go to the next president.
COOPER: I mean there's always a danger of Democrats becoming so kind of confident and cocky that they don't actually come out to vote. Are you actually concerned about that? Because certainly that - Monica Langley from the "Wall Street Journal" I think was the first to report, one of the things the Trump campaign hopes to do is kind of suppress Democratic turnout through just, I'm not so sure, suppress is right word, but just, you know, discourage Democratic turnout.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, CLINTON SUPPORTER: You know, well, look, I think that it is imperative that the Hillary campaign makes sure that, you know, they keep their foot on the gas and make sure that their voters turnout and don't get, I think more so like fatigued by all of this negativity that's been going on, which could happen, right?
But, look, you know, he has to get a straight royal flush here. His map is collapsing. And so that's great for us. But, like, to your point, we really do have to make sure that our side doesn't get complacent.
[21:35:05] And not just doing -- continuing the early voting, which is happening, and, you know, Obama won, essentially, by getting, -- winning on the early voting side of things in 2008 and 2012. And so I think they have to have that, and voter registration, we're leading in some of these important battleground states here, too.
COOPER: Andre, what do you make of Hugh Hewitt's point that if Donald Trump does lose main street Republican you're going to quickly revert backs to Ryan, McConnell way?
BAUER: I don't believe that? I think they are so frustrated. They are at a bowling point. They've seen their wages remain the same, if not reduced. They've seen debt continuing -- almost doubled in the last eight years. They're concerned with what we've got going on around the world. They look at things like NAFTA and they say, "He made a valid point." Why are we disproportionately paying more than our fair share and why do we continue to be the world peacekeepers with no help with so many other countries that are now well-heeled. And they're frustrated.
They say we don't taking care of our folks at home, but yet we're continuing to help folks abroad and there's a lot of disenfranchised voters out there.
COOPER: We're going to have more coming up. Donald Trump could lose Utah, which is virtually unheard off, of course, for Republican he might lose it a virtually unheard of candidate. How Evan McMullin is changing the game in Utah. That's next.
[21:40:07] COOPER: Utah is about as red as it gets. Republicans hold the governor's office, those Senate seats, every congressional district and vast majorities of the state House and the Senate.
Now in 2012, Mitt Romney won Utah by nearly 50 points. So why is Donald Trump in danger of not only losing the state, but losing it to someone who few people have ever even heard of? Phil Mattingly tonight reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump has a very real Utah problem. It's largely because of this man, Evan McMullin.
EVAN MCMULLIN, (I) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our campaign is a three- month presidential campaign.
MATTINGLY: Haven't heard of him? You're not alone. In a year where third party candidates like Gary Johnson and Jill Stein have made waves, McMullin has been an afterthought. Yet, he is now in position to have the largest impact of all three on the general election. He's in position to win Utah.
MCMULLIN: People like to say that mountain -- or that Utah is a Republican state, or a deep red state. I say that it's a principled conservative state.
MATTINGLY: For Trump, trailing in the polls and with an extremely limited path to 270 electoral votes to begin with, it's a major headache. But it's one that has been percolating for months. And now appears to be peaking.
A drive through Salt Lake City produces political yard sign after political yard sign, yet no hint of the presidential race.
It's a reflection captured in the polls of the general disgust with the tone of this race. And one with roots in the state's dominant Mormon faith and its GOP leaders who have been cold to Trump's fiery and at times deeply offensive rhetoric.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her.
MATTINGLY: Willing to pull their endorsements in the wake of revelations about crude remarks.
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R) UTAH: I'm out. I can no longer endorse Donald Trump for president. I -- there's no possible way I vote for Hillary Clinton, but, these are abhorrent.
MATTINGLY: Or outright denounce the candidate altogether. MITT ROMNEY, (R) 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, I'm far from the
first to conclude that Donald Trump lacks the temperament to be president.
MCMULLIN: We knew all along, as did many Americans, that Donald Trump was the type of guy who would talk about women the way he did in that tape.
MATTINGLY: Enter McMullin, a Utah native practicing Mormon, former CIA officer, and Capitol Hill staffer. What he lacks in national profile, he's made up for in increasing momentum in the state.
Steadily creeping up in the polls for months, Trump's tape has sparked a moment for McMullin and his running mate, Mindy Finn, one that has them leading in the state, according to at least one recent poll.
MINDY FINN, (I) VICE PRESIDENTIAN CANDIDATE: What you'll tell us is you're offering us a glimmer of light and what has been a sea of darkness in this 2016 election.
MATTINGLY: A single-state strategy is hardly a recipe for electoral success, but McMullin's goals are twofold. First, open the door to this exceedingly unlikely scenario.
MCMULLIN: And we've said that if the race is very, very close between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, we could win a state or two and block them both and take the election to the House.
MATTINGLY: But second, in given recent polling most importantly from McMullin and Finn create an alternative for those turned off by Trump.
MCMULLIN: If Hillary Clinton is dominating Donald Trump, then what the outcome here in Utah and in other states doesn't matter quite as much.
And so we're saying, even in that case, stand on principle, stand for what you know is right, stand for the kind of leadership you'd actually like to see in this country and let's build from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Phil joins me now. Hillary Clinton is also close in the polls in Utah. What's her team doing out there?
MATTINGLY: Yeah, that's exactly right. Evan McMullin, Anderson, is not the only one who sees possibilities here. Hillary Clinton's team opened an office in the state, sent a field staffer here in August and as you noted, President Obama lost this state by more than 50 points. So that point, people kind of rolled their eyes and raised their eyebrows.
Now, the Clinton campaign is actually sending more staff out. The reality is this, Evan -- Anderson, Hillary Clinton has a hard ceiling here. She's not going to get above 25 or 30 but with a diffuse electorate right now, three different candidates polling, that might just be enough. Anderson?
COOPER: Fascinating days. Phil Mattingly, thanks very much. Back with the panel. I mean, is this just a fluke? I mean, just a one-off thing in Utah?
WATSON: Talk about a Never-Trump, I mean, the last time we saw something like this was 1968, when George Wallace won five states in the solid south, so was kind of original candidate.
It would be interesting if he started to play in Arizona. Now, we haven't seen any sense that that will happen, but that would actually be really disruptive on a number of levels if he did that.
I think, Anderson, what this points to, again, is what will happen to the Republican Party if Trump does lose and Kayleigh and Andre and others have been talking about, will there, in effect, and be a little bit of a revolt. Will some people get cantered?
And how will kind of Trump supporters react to people like Mitt Romney, Evan McMullin, Paul Ryan, Kelly Ayotte and others who didn't support Trump as the nominee. It could be quite fractious.
[21:45:03] COOPER: Kayleigh, how do you see -- I mean, McMullin, I mean, is it that just have ...
MCENANY: I said I have no Trump is going to win Utah. I really do, because, look, if you look at the last four polls, Trump is ahead by 17 in the CBS when it was five days ago is that by one and two of them. McMullin is only up in one of these polls.
And I think he should actually listen to Carlos' advice in the last segment because he can easily steal the deal in Utah by making a stop there in saying this is about the Supreme Court, the Mormon community deeply cares about decisions like hobby lobby, you can't force employers to provide contraception and thoroughly disbelieves. You could end the argument with Evan McMullin by saying the Supreme Court the stakes are just too high.
PRESS: Well, first of all, let's also add that the Salt Lake City tribune endorsed Hillary Clinton. I mean, pinch me, that we are sitting here, October of the 22nd, right?
COOPER: Do you think newspaper endorsements really matter, anymore?
PRESS: I think in Utah, they do. The Salt Lake City tribune is the word, right? But, I mean, here we are at this late in the game and we're talking about questioning whether Utah is going to be for Donald Trump? It's not just Utah. Arizona, which you talked about earlier, Georgia. Hillary Clinton's ahead in Georgia. Texas, Donald Trump has a two- point lead in Texas in the Washington -- in the latest "Washington Post" survey.
So there are so many states now that were normally always red, that are in play. This is unheard of. And, again, I think we're north of 350 for Hillary Clinton.
COOPER: So, Andre, do you believe these polls? I mean, or do you believe that there are -- that there's a, you know, hidden electorate out there who's going to be coming out that's not represented?
BAUER: Well, number one, you know, good for him for running, but there's so much straight party voting right off the bat that he won't be the one that wins this. Donald Trump will win Utah.
I mean, it sounds great that they're polling him and he has a chance, but right off the bat, so many people pull that straight ticket lever, that both candidates Rs and Ds are going to benefit for that. So he's not going to do nearly as well as we think he does. He won't win Utah.
And the other question is, why? What's the purpose? You know, I heard the story, but, he really doesn't give us any -- he's not compelling, giving anybody any body a real reason to vote for him. There's -- I mean, he's a spoiler, at best.
JEAN-PIERRE: I mean, I think the question -- I mean, the "why" is because Donald Trump insulted their favorite son, you know? Which is Mitt Romney, and, you know, they're reacting to that, as well and all the other insulting, hateful things that Donald Trump has said in the last 16 months.
Look, and you have -- what's happening is you have the Mormon community, essentially walking away from Donald Trump. I'm curious to see what's happening in Idaho, you know, state like that as well.
So, look, to Bill's point, you know, Hillary Clinton is expanding in the red states, you know, we're two weeks out. That's insane. You know, that's not supposed to be happening right now.
I mean there's also Alaska. And let's remember, Texas. Texas has 38 Electoral College votes. If that's really up for grabs, this race is over.
WATSON: You know, I'll say that the two states that interest me the most is whether or not to be swing. You know, North Carolina, which you expect a Republican to win. Obama obviously challenged, but there's clearly concern in the Trump camp right now that that's way closer than they would like it to be.
And then Andre is going to hate me for saying this, because he and I just talked good football for the longest off camera. But that South Carolina number, Andre, is got to be uncomfortable for you, that that's in single digits right now. And I know you're telling me that all the state office holders are Republicans, but in South Carolina were to flip for the first time since '76 when Carter took it ...
COOPER: Do you think that's possible?
BAUER: No. We just left Vegas. Let's get back on a plane. I mean that's not going to happen.
PRESS: I want to agree with you, right? But I think what you're going to see, again, which is just unheard of, is that now you've got the blue all the way down the west coast, you're going to have blue all the way down the east coast. Mark my words, except for South Carolina.
Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, for sure, and right up the east coast. So you're going to -- blue stripes down both coasts, except for South Carolina, and that's only because of Andre.
MCENANY: Bill Press, you're dreaming (inaudible).
WATSON: And, you know, the one thing we haven't talked fully enough about, we've been talked about Trump on the defense, but if he wanted to go on offense with only 17 days left, what would a Hail Mary look like? We saw Lebron James come back from three to one, so anything is possible.
I think first of all, he still needs 60 minutes-like interview that would staunch the bleeding and we would need Melania there with him and he fundamentally have to admit wrong and do that in a really meaningful forum.
JEAN-PIERRE: I think it's too late.
WATSON: But, you know, you never know. The second thing I would say, finally, it's three or four policy speeches in a row that were really specific and substantive such that you've got those newspapers that no longer matter.
JEAN-PIERRE: He should have done that three months ago. We're 17 days away.
COOPER: Just ahead, Anthony Bourdain describing how the vote pretty much hijacked his latest episode of "Parts Unknown" became part of the story.
[21:50:01] You know, I go out for a really interesting dinner and discuss it. I will see it ahead. We'll be right back.
COOPER: This weekend on CNN, an unexpected collision of politics and English cuisine.
The drama unfolds in the new episode of "Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown." We went to the great New York restaurant, Takashi. I talked to Anthony about what happen when he went to London in June to film the episode.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, London.
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, "PARTS UNKNOWN," HOST: Yes.
COOPER: Do you love London? I don't quite understand why.
BOURDAIN: I have mix emotion.
COOPER: I've never ...
BOURDAIN: ... cultural relationship with London. I have many friends there who I love, and loves seeing some of my favorite restaurants in the world are in London. In fact, I mean, there's a great food there and food that makes me very, very, very happy.
However, as often happens on this show, I mean, were bad news. We got some bad news, you know, floating around us because we showed up just as the Brexit vote happened.
COOPER: Oh, OK.
BOURDAIN: Where everybody in London, any way, as you know the cultural elites tend to do, went to sleep thinking we're the center of the world and everything is going to be fine and the Brexit vote is going to come out the way it should, which is, you know, surely our country will not vote to leave the European Union.
And, in fact, London woke up and all of my friends and everybody are new to find that the country had voted to leave the European Union, and that's when we showed up. And it was like a collective nervous breakdown. I mean, people were absolutely freaking.
[21:55:04] That's a steak. We get to start off low and easy. You want -- might want to dip.
BOURDAIN: So we were there for all of it and that's -- that's what's happening throughout the show.
So it's the sort of search for comfort and reason, how to make sense of it all as the entire -- I mean, the prime minister resigned as we were there. The heads of the both political parties left.
BOURDAIN: It was a time of great uncertainty to say the least, and ...
COOPER: Were they all with a stiff upper lipped or ...
BOURDAIN: No. Oh, my God, no. Because I mean, you know, it was ankle deep in tears and vomit.
COOPER: What was that?
COOPER: Aorta. So, aorta from the heart, got it.
BOURDAIN: Leaves (inaudible) to the heart.
COOPER: Yeah. Now I'm familiar. I didn't know it was edible. I don't know you could eat an aorta.
BOURDAIN: You can eat anything, man
BOURDAIN: Taste good.
COOPER: No. I mean, it sort of what I imagined brain was going to taste like.
BOURDAIN: No. Brain is sort of creamy with a nutty ...
COOPER: Right, yeah.
BOURDAIN: I'm usually ...
COOPER: I can taste exactly what you were anticipating an aorta would taste like.
BOURDAIN: I don't know. I'm not a big brain fan or ...
COOPER: You know, it's like kind of what you would guess. It's kind of crunchy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Aortas, crunchy. Don't miss this extraordinary episode of "Anthony Bourdian, Parts Unknown" Sunday at CNN 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. We'll be right back.