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Harvey Weinstein Under Investigation; Did Potus Disrespect The Flag; Russia Bid To Interfere In U.S. Election Went Away Beyond Facebook, Twitter; Teams Staying Away From Trump Hotels; Trump Jokes During A Military Flag Ceremony; Man Beaten By White Supremacist In Charlottesville Is Arrested; Lawsuit Seeks To Prevent Paramilitary Groups Form Rallying In Charlottesville, Virginia.. Aired 11-Midnight ET
Aired October 12, 2017 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have horror stories not too long ago about what goes on with women entrepreneurs when they go to pitch their ideas and their businesses to many that are venture capitalists. It's awful. It happens in every industry. We do need to find a solution here. We need to have more women in positions of leadership, more women CEOs, more women on board that should be 50/50, more women in executive leadership positions, and we need to stop electing Presidents who are self-professed grabbers of women's genitals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree. Build a time machine to go back to the '90s.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT NEWS SHOW HOST: Not to cut you short. You wrote about this piece in Cosmopolitan, right?
AMANDA CARPENTER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I did. It talk about how I thought it was cheap for people and Republican national committee to score political shots off this because in my mind, there is a form of political abuse. They are not standing up for women and trying to stop this, but scoring political points using the women like Donald Trump did before the St. Louis debate by holding up Bill Clinton's accusers to deflect criticism for his own conduct towards women, but there's a hopeful note, I think, we can take from the way that all of these great men are being brought down. We asked why women didn't say something. You have to have proof. Jane couldn't have spread rumors to everyone saying, I heard something, you know, through the grapevine. You need the proof. Gretchen Carlson had that bringing Roger Ailes down, she had secret recordings. Harvey Weinstein would not be a story, I don't think, if we didn't have that audio tape of him pressuring that model to go into the room, so, women, if you come at the king, come with audio recordings or video.
LEMON: Thank you. I appreciate it. Write it down. It's always a thing. Write it down. Thank you very much.
This CNN tonight. I'm Don Lemon, just past 11:00 p.m. here on the east coast and we are live with new developments tonight. More and more pro-sports teams are staying away from Trump hotels across the country. Could that be why the President has a beef with the NFL? Plus, the President himself seems to disrespect a long standing military tradition when he makes a joke as the flag is lowered in an air national guard hanger. Also, new reporting tonight on Russian election meddling from Facebook to Pokemon go. Is there anything that the Russian didn't have their hands on in - during this election and did they target you? I want to bring in, now, CNN Dylan Byers our senior reporter for media and politics and national security analyst Steve Hall. Juliette Kayyem and CNN political commentator David Swerdlick. Good evening, welcome to the program, all of you. Dylan, you have exclusive new reporting about Russian attempts to meddle in the U.S. Election way beyond Facebook and twitter, what are you learning?
DYLAN BYERS, SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS, CNN: That is right, Don. Way beyond Facebook and twitter and way beyond YouTube and Tumblr. We learned the Russians even tried to use Pokemon go, augmented reality video game, to effectively galvanize African- American outrage over police brutality, over police killings of African-American men. It, you know, the idea that Russians are, you know, exploiting racial tensions by Pokemon go would be funny if it were not so troubling. They actually created this contest where they sent people out to find Pokemon and name them after victims of police brutality, and they said that whoever won the contest would be awarded with amazon prime gift cards, but, look, on a more serious note, the fact that the Russians were sophisticated and strategic enough to use Facebook, twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, Pokemon go and effectively create an ecosystem where the messages were reinforced for any vulnerable leader, who is vulnerable to any sort of politically charged messaging, you know, it just speaks to how deep and widespread this effort was by the Russians, by this troll farm known as the internet research agency.
LEMON: You also found Russian link groups trying to organize their own black lives matter protests in the U.S. Explain that Dylan.
BYERS: Yes. That is right. So after all of these sort of digital platforms, social media efforts, some of these people reached out to journalists, reached out to editors at local newspapers to try to tell them about protests that were happening. They also advertised protests on social media platforms to effectively get people to go out in the real world and protest. What that speaks to, you know, on this issue, it was black lives matter. It could have very well be with other issues they pushed whether it was gun rights, whether it was LGBTQ issues, anything that could drive a wedge between Americans, anything that could sew discord. Giving the impression that America is in a state of chaos before, during, after the Presidential election, all of it is sort of geared towards that, and, you know, we spoke to some of the journalists who worked in the papers and they said these people reached out to them. They had no idea who the people were. They only could correspond via e-mail. They thought they were black activists. They were actually trolls in Russia.
[23:05:21] LEMON: Yes. Steve, take us inside the minds of the Russians. What do they think they'd accomplish with Pokemon go players?
STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this whole story, Don, invokes parts horror and -- but I'm impressed with the amazing resources of the Russians pouring into this. Yes, I mean, nothing sacred? Pokemon go. Remember not many months ago, what did they do? Hack the DNC. Went from that to google to Facebook to basically every major social media platform, and the Russian television services are the ones responsible for carrying this out, and they've done so, you know, with the amazing abilities, and as people have pointed out, the real goal here, because there may be confusion, you can have a couple different goals. The goal was to influence outcome of the election, but absolutely, it's also to find those pressure points in American society to get us going against each other, and, remember, the Russian intelligence services are not just doing that here in the United States, but they are doing it across the west. This is a large active measures campaign, focused partially on the United States, but also on the rest of the west as well. It really is quite impressive and horrifying.
LEMON: Juliette Kayyem, bringing you in now, last alive the day after Steele was killed by the white police officer, the Russian linked group was using social media to organize its own protest. What do you think they were trying to do?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, just consistent with what everyone is saying to sew dissension. I wouldn't stop there, dissension leads to voting behavior. It galvanizes people to vote or anti-Hillary, it maybe suppresses the desire to vote, and so that is actually what you saw, more Trump supporters or voters came to the polls than they expected, and fewer Hillary supporters voted than expected. So is there a link between this campaign by the Russians and how voters actually behaved is something that I think a lot of people are going to be looking at, not too far away, just about a year away in the next election.
I will say, you know, what's been coming out. We laugh about Pokemon go, it's a platform taking advertising, what the Russians want. They just wanted to buy platforms. They did it greatly with Facebook, which they understood was the largest platform, most get their news from Facebook, but they are buying their own propaganda, so the question is now, should we stop treating social media companies like agnostic platforms, or are they actually content providers? That is the $64,000 question going forward.
LEMON: David, to you now. The Facebook CEO spoke to Mike Allen today and was asked multiple times whether or not there was an overlap in the Facebook users targeted by Russia in the Trump campaign. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you all learn about the overlap in targeting between the Trump campaign and Russian accounts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Targeting on Facebook is broad. It's used by everyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overlap between the Trump campaign and these Russian accounts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Targeting is something everyone uses, goes to the heart of what targeting is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Trump campaign and Russian accounts, you don't know or won't tell me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the ads get released, we'll also be releasing the targeting for those ads.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why do you think she dodged the question three times?
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, Don, I think she is responding to Mike Allen question on two levels. One, the general, part of the business model is targeted ads. Forget Russia for a second. They don't want us to think all the time about the fact that, you know, we're being tracked, we're being targeted very specifically and sent ads based on things we like and those things are reinforced. If you go to the question of the internet research agency from Dylan's reporting, the Russia issue, there's a question of, if you're in a position of Sheryl Sandburg there, if you have not determined yet, if there's an overlap per Mike's question about what the Trump campaign was targeting versus what the Russian groups were targeting, you don't want to get ahead of yourself.
If you do know, you really are going to hesitate if you're in her position to go public with that information and get ahead of whatever the, say the special counsel Mueller is investigating. In this case, if you say you know there's an overlap, you're to the point saying, yes, we have reason to believe that there's some kind of connection between what the Trump campaign is doing and what these Russian groups were doing, and that is a whole different can of worms that she would open up if she said that.
[23:10:00] LEMON: But Dylan -- go ahead.
BYERS: Don, can I just add to the point, look, based off all my reporting, I believe Facebook does not whether or not there is overlap, but the point is that, which was just made, and it's right, Facebook does not want to get ahead of this special counsel. They don't want to get ahead of the special counsel for their own sake, for Facebook's sake or get ahead for special counsel's sake. That question for every organization involved, whether it's Facebook or twitter or, you know, a media company, anyone else, they are deferring to the special counsel because they believe the integrity of that investigation requires that that be handled by Robert Mueller.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, all. When we come back, why the pro- sports team that used to fill Trump hotels are staying away. What that means for the President's brand.
LEMON: President Trump is obsessed with professional sports, but new questions are raised about teams and Trump hotels. Here's the latest on that, senior contributor David Fahrenthold of the "Washington Post," good evening, sir, welcome to the program. DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.
LEMON: You have new reporting on sports teams and Trump hotels. What can you tell us?
FAHRENTHOLD: We went back to look to see whether sports teams staying in Donald Trump hotels in Chicago and in SOHO in Manhattan before the election, before he got in the campaign, were still his clients. Had a third of the NBA staying in SOHO Hotel New York, and total of 17 teams staying within one place or the other. We found 16 of the 17 teams have now quit, stop stayed with President Trump since he got in the Presidential race.
[23:15:10] LEMON: Interesting. How much money was the NBA spending in Trump properties.
FAHRENTHOLD: Well, each team, each night, they came to stay a couple nights to play, Knicks, Nets, Brooklyn, each night they are there is $20,000 in rooms, food, things like that, ballroom rentals for film Sessions, but it's not just that and money teams give Trump directly, but huge advertisements, tweeting about it, show people who are trying to choose a cool hotel in New York City, what cooler people than NBA players on the road. They were walking ads for the Trump hotel. Not only do they lose the money from them directly, but that social buzz.
LEMON: Social buzz pre-advertising, so to speak. Are there Trump properties seeing strong business since the president took office?
FAHRENTHOLD: Here is what interesting. The presidency is pulling Trump properties in opposite directions, selling proximity to the President, access to the President, like Mar-a-Lago and Trump hotel in D.C. right here, so close to the White House, they sell proximity to power had done pretty well. The other places, golf courses around the world, golf courses on the east coast and west coast, and they can't sell proximity to Trump because he is not there, survive as golf courses and hotels we seen a lot of trouble in his places. The customers that used to go there, wealthy people from liberal cities are not excited about Trump brand anymore. That is interesting. The dynamic of some places that sell access to the President going up, others not doing well.
LEMON: Talk about this. Our colleague Kristina Leshi has reporting that the secret service paid Mar-a-Lago $63,000 in a few months. The bills could be for rooms rented to agents, space leased for communications equipment for other purposes. Is the President personally profiting from visits to his own properties?
FAHRENTHOLD: Certainly, he is. Secret service pays for a lot of equipment on a Presidential trip like this. They do not pay Trump for all of it. Stuff is represented from other vendor vendors, but stuff earlier this year, there was department official that stayed in Mar-a- Lago, and got this so called rack rate, which is $600 a night, that they charge the government, tax payers are paying for that. So this money goes into Trump's pocket. The report CNN had, $63,000, it's not all the government, but take the $63,000, that is dues for four and a half members at Mar-a-Lago that Trump is now getting without having so provide anything from the federal government.
LEMON: What is this, when you talk about the players who are not staying there, not getting the social buzz, obviously, not getting the money from the whole team to stay there, and then this, what's it do for the bottom line, the Trump property and brand.
FAHRENTHOLD: Hard to know without, you know, the Trump organization is very secretive. It's hard to know overall going up or going down, but, certainly, there's been troubling signs. One that came out this weekend was from Trump's two golf courses in Scotland that he is in a lot of debt on both of them. Bought them just before the Presidential race, and he is not popular in Scotland, and the new reports that came out show him losing a lot of money, doubling the losses between the two golf courses from 2015-16. So he is having make it up, putting money into the properties, so, certainly, seems like, I don't know what the overall wash is, but there's certainly a lot of reasons to think that some of the golf courses, hotels are not doing very well now that his presidency is sort of changing the brand.
LEMON: So, can we just take a look at your work for just a second here, I want you to look at these, your notes, that you -- and you won a Pulitzer prize for taking notes like this.
FAHRENTHOLD: That is right. We are establishing which pro teams used to go to Trump hotels, who still goes to Trump hotels for a sense of how much business was lost. The ones you see there are the 17 teams that had gone there recently, at least 69 have left. There may be a few more teams that have been recent customers are still current customers, and we're trying to track that down. Numbers in the list may grow.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
FAHRENTHOLD: Thank you.
LEMON: When we come back, the President is all over professional athletes for not standing in the national anthem, so why didn't he stand during yesterday's flag lowering at a military base?
[23:23:37] LEMON: President's feud with the NFL might have more to do with bottom line in respect to the anthem and the flag. Let's discuss now CNN political commentator Ben Ferguson, And Keith Boykin both join me. So, let's talk about David Fahrenthold, welcome to the program, by the way.
KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
LEMON: David's Fahrenthold reporting, the President's upset about the flag or the fact that he is losing money from these athletes?
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think it's losing money. I don't think he knows about the money aspect of it or focused on it. Teams can stay in whatever hotel they want to, and if it's not Trump properties, they absolutely can do that. I'm not surprised they are saying they don't want to stay there. There's a rift, but I don't think he is concerned about x number of games in a 17 and not staying in the property, and I really don't think that his comments are based on them not staying there, but comments based on the fact that he thought the country was disrespected by players on the field. You can laugh at it, but that is where it comes from.
LEMON: You know he knows. Come on.
FERGUSON: I honestly don't think to. I'm sure the media reporting comes out, and he'll have a great one-liner for it, but he knew running for President, he'd alienate the base.
LEMON: If he knows people are not standing or kneeling about the anthem and knows about the bottom line in his businesses.
FERGUSON: Here's my thing, if --
BOYKIN: What's going on with the hotels because there's no separation between the Trump business and Trump White House. He failed to set up a divest his business from what he is doing so everything happens right now is about business. Trump is a thing here, when he leaves office, again, even if he was not --
[23:25:18] FERGUSON: It is bad for business to run for President and office. Any time you run for office, especially President, you alienating 50 percent of the customer base, right?
BOYKIN: He is charging services to stay --
FERGUSON: Last thing he is worried about is NFL charging -- nothing compared to 50 percent of Americans not staying in the hotel.
BOYKIN: He is making money hand over fist from all the --
LEMON: Keith. Pull your microphone up -- that is loud enough.
BOYKIN: He doesn't care if people -- if the NFL does not stay in hotels because he makes so much money off the other business deals he is got, doubling the price for admission in Mar-a-Lago. Everything is about money.
LEMON: Back on track. You know he knows. You know someone told him. He said he doesn't care about the NFL, NBA, of course, he does.
FERGUSON: I don't think he cares if they stay or not stay at the hotel property, because if that was the true --
LEMON: Standing or kneeling, then he cares.
FERGUSON: You're acting like it's a business proposal here. If so, he would have never ran for office because you alienate 50 percent of the -- making money out of running the country.
BOYKIN: How is he making more money by -- FERGUSON: You would never stay in a Trump hotel would you now? There
is no way you would.
BOYKIN: That is one aspect of the money --
FERGUSON: Would you stay in a Trump hotel?
BOYKIN: That is the only way he makes money?
FERGUSON: Would you do --
BOYKIN: Guys. Who is bilking the federal government, Donald Trump set the example that what you do now, you use the elected office in order to make money for yourself.
LEMON: Making money off secret servicemen he just reported that.
FERGUSON: Hillary Clinton bought a house next to her to make money from the secret service and could argue the same thing.
BOYKIN: Bought the house Dr.
FERGUSON: For the secret service to rent. Renting out part of his house.
BOYKIN: It never happened.
FERGUSON: The Vice President, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton both made money from the secret service. That is a fact.
LEMON: They made money from the secret service?
FERGUSON: They paid money for them to stay on their property. That is a fact. That is what happens with Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, go to the property, the secret service pays to monitor the property that is very normal, and they never complained about it when Joe Biden did it.
BOYKIN: Donald Trump is charging people the highest rates in Manhattan in order to stay --
FERGUSON: Doesn't have the safest hotel --
BOYKIN: To stay in Trump tower. Highest rates --
FERGUSON: Let me finish.
BOYKIN: Any landlord in Manhattan.
LEMON: Hold on. One at a time. FERGUSON: You want the secret service to stay in another hotel and
put maximum security at risk of our President.
BOYKIN: To raise the cost of stay --
FERGUSON: Are you kidding me.
LEMON: Hold on, stop, stop. What you said doesn't make any sense.
FERGUSON: Yes, it does.
LEMON: They didn't have to stay in a hotel, go to D.C., doesn't have to go to the places every weekend, in Trump property.
FERGUSON: Let me ask this --
LEMON: He doesn't have to do this. As a matter of fact, hold on --
FERGUSON: Barack Obama --
LEMON: As a matter of fact, look at the emoluments clause and he speaks to all the people in White House, he shouldn't be staying in his own properties anyways because it is seen as a money making --
FERGUSON: When Hillary Clinton went around or Bill Clinton or Barack and Michelle Obama --
LEMON: There's no Clinton hotels.
FERGUSON: I didn't ask the question.
LEMON: There's no Clinton hotels.
FERGUSON: I didn't ask the question. I'm going to ask the question. I get it. When they were in office --
LEMON: There's no --
BOYKIN: They never stayed in high donor properties.
LEMON: Oh, my god. When Hillary Clinton was President?
FERGUSON: When she was in the White House and Bill Clinton was there, and when she was going around Secretary of State --
BOYKIN: This guy said --
FERGUSON: Let me finish.
BOYKIN: Basically, there's two --
FERGUSON: You guys, I can't even ask the question. LEMON: Talking about the flag. Get it back. Let's talk about the
BOYKIN: You don't like it because it's the truth.
LEMON: Last night, the President was at the air national guard base for an interview. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What a nice job that is. Are they playing that for you or for me?
They are playing that in honor of the ratings. Did you see how good the ratings are? He is beating everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, just so you know, the bugle in the background was playing "retreat," played when the flag is lowered and raised in a military installation, someone who is obsessed with respect for the flag, he went to a military school, should know what that is. Did not respect it. This is, again, picking and choosing patriotism, who does what when. Listen, I -- I didn't go to military school, but if I hear a bugle playing the anthem, I'm going to stand up. I'm not going to make a joke about ratings at that time.
BOYKIN: Donald Trump doesn't care about the military as much as he says. He doesn't know about the military. My mom looked at Fort Hood Army Base in Texas with her husband in the military, and I stayed there. I knew when that was played and when retreat is played, you pull off the car, stop, salute, even as a civilian. Idea that Donald Trump is commander in chief of the United States militarizing he does not know that going around telling people they should kneel during the national anthem, that is the height of hypocrisy for somebody who is to know better.
LEMON: What do you think?
FERGUSON: I think last night, first off, he is end of it, he is taping it live. I don't think he realized what was happening in the moment because it's TV -- if something went off behind us now, did not expect it, you fill the moment until you figure out what was happening.
BOYKIN: In a military base?
LEMON: Hold on. Hold on. Let me give you context, then finish. A military installation.
LEMON: Members of the military are there.
FERGUSON: Correct. LEMON: They stood up.
FERGUSON: Right. He is -- you know this, when an audience is behind you, you are not looking behind you.
BOYKIN: People in prompt of them, all of them were standing. You don't think -- ? We joke about Sean's ratings --
FERGUSON: I think he was confused as most --
BOYKIN: Military was playing retreat.
FERGUSON: Again, it was outside their inside. Ok? That is the first thing. It's not like it was in the room. Second thing is --
LEMON: That part is true. There are different standards inside and outside.
FERGUSON: Outside and inside. If you are inside, the rule is, if you know the rule, the rule is, when you are outside, you are to pull over the car, to stop what you're doing, and you're to put your hand over your heart. He is inside a building, you hear it off in the distance. It was clear he did not realize no one in the room, I think, at the moment it happened, that was not in the military, it was not in the military, did not -- how many people there, do you think, thought they were disrespecting in that moment. I think you are stretching it a lot.
BOYKIN: United States of America.
FERGUSON: I think you are stretching a lot.
BOYKIN: If Donald Trump cared about armed forces, what he would have done Monday rather than golfing with Lindsey Graham, he would have gone to see the flag draped coffin of the U.S. Soldier who was killed in (inaudible). He has not said a single word about the eight -- four American soldiers killed in Niger. Last Wednesday, eight days, and President of the United States has not said a statement --
FERGUSON: There's a statement from the White House.
BOYKIN: Tweeting about --
FERGUSON: Again -- White House put out a statement about that.
BOYKIN: Mr. President has failed to say a single word.
LEMON: Thank you, both. Thank you.
FERGUSON: That is not a stretch. LEMON: That is true. I read it. He has not commented on it. Before
we go to break, I just want to play this when you say he is not aware and what happens in groups and outside people coming in. This is what happened in 2007. Comedian Robin Williams performed in Kuwait. This is how he handle it when the retreat started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:36:47] LEMON: New developments on a story we first brought you last night. Deandre Harris, a black man beaten in a parking garage by white attackers during a protest rally by white supremacist in Virginia back in August. Turn himself in this morning of the warrant issued for his arrest on unlawful wounding. One of the white Marchers, a member of a white supremacist group said Harris assaulted him. I want to bring in now Corey Long, Corey is friend of Deandre who also protested the white supremacist rally. Corey thank you for joining us here on CNN. We have learned that a warrant --
COREY LONG, HAS PENDING LAWSUIT OVER CHARLOTTESVILLE PROTESTS: How you doing, my brother.
LEMON: I'm doing ok, and we learned that a warrant has been filed against you. What do you know about that?
LONG: Yes, sir. Oh, as much as I can say in front of my attorney, Malik, I cannot pretty much disclose anything on my case at this time, but I was at the law firm for black lawyers for justice, and Malik, my attorney, so any questions, you all can discuss that on that, but I do want to say is, we have as the community in Virginia and everybody else need to come together as one, not just Charlottesville, but surrounding county and shut down that whole organization.
LEMON: Yes. So, listen, I know it's nerve racking to be on national television, and we certainly understand that, so let's talk about what you can discuss.
LONG: Yes, sir.
LEMON: Ok. So your friend, Deandre Harris --
LONG: Yes, sir.
LEMON: Showing this video. There he is, brutally attack during a chaos in Charlottesville. Turned himself in today after a warrant issued for him. Have you spoken to Deandre?
LONG: No, sir, not at this time, I have not.
LEMON: Do you think you're being targeted because of your connection to him? LONG: Not even just that. I've been getting death threats, e-mails,
my twitter account, everything is being targeted with purely racial death threats, saying Don -- all types of stuff on my social media, and they had the heather, who was there and had her dig -- digging in the pictures, talking about her grandmother and my cousin of mine, also having just talking real reckless about all three of them, all three deceased, and it's just been -- to tell you the truth.
LEMON: I understand that you have a pending lawsuit against the City of Charlottesville. What do you hope to accomplish from that?
LONG: Well, I would say that not just only me, but others come forward as well with this pending lawsuit. Hopefully, we get justice, like, what they did to Deandre, to me, and many others, all we want is justice, and the fact that I people like they have something to do with the police department, like, he got -- I feel like they all need to be accountable for their actions.
[23:40:03] LEMON: You're talking about the man who filed charges, right?
LONG: Yes, sir.
LEMON: Yes. What do you think -- how - what do you think the city could have done better, Corey, in their handling of the protests in Charlottesville?
LONG: They should have intervened, stepped in, play their part, sworn to oath to protect the commonwealth, to do your job. This is -- if you don't like your job, quit, pretty much. They should have intervened or something.
LEMON: What do you want to see from the city going forward?
LONG: From the city going forward?
LONG: I just want to see equality. Everything. I want to see love back in the city instead of all this hate crime that they bring to the city with the white supremacy.
LEMON: Corey Long --
LONG: I want to see them stop coming to our city.
LEMON: Go on.
LONG: And not just stop coming to the city, all of them be accountable for their actions. Like, it's unreal the amount of death threats and everything I receive, that I have to turn myself in tomorrow morning, and this is crazy. Outrageous.
LEMON: We'll be following your story, and we welcome you back when there's an update. Thank you Corey Long, I appreciate it.
LONG: Thank you.
LEMON: I want to bring in now Mary McCord, she is a senior litigator at the Georgetown law institute for advocacy and protection which has filed a lawsuit seeking to bar white supremacy and para military groups from rallying again in Charlottesville. Thank you for coming on, Mary. We appreciate that. Listen, white nationalist, Richard Spencer, gave an interview earlier to WBIR, c northbound affiliate, sounding optimistic about the suit, saying I understand how to play this game. Why do you think you'll win and what do you hope to accomplish?
MARY MCCORD, SENIOR LITIGATOR, GEORGETOWN LAW: First of all, thank you for having me tonight, Don. I don't look at this as a game at all. We're representing the City of Charlottesville as well as homeowners, residents in the community, and business people who have been harmed by the military and paramilitary groups coming into Charlottesville on October 12th as part of the unite the light rally and invaded the city. That is how residents and businesses feel, and how the community feels. What we saw when we looked at Charlottesville was not a rally or to protest the removal of a confederate statue or a peaceful exercise of free speech, but a military invasion using military tactics and military intimidation and pageantry, and so that is what this lawsuit is about.
It's not a game. It is the allegations in the complaint are very well-researched, very well-supported, and always seek all the that the community that we represent seeks is a court order to enjoin the groups from coming back in the form of malicious or paramilitary organizations, so if they want to come and they want to engage in free speech and freely express their views, they are true to do that in a peaceful way, but what they are not -- god go ahead go ahead.
LEMON: They are going to argue they were exercising their right to free speech in Charlottesville, so why do you think what they did in Charlottesville that that goes beyond free speech and free assembly, both of which are protected by the constitution.
MCCORD: Well, the reason we think that, and we think that the activity that we are seeking to enjoin is not entitled to protection of the first amendment, because it was violent construct, and the Supreme Court said over and over again that violent conduct is not protected by the first amendment. This paramilitary activity, this incitement of violence, provoking of violence and engaging of violence is not free speech. Speech, expression, assembling together to express views without violence, that is protective, but what we saw there --
LEMON: Even the armed groups that showed up, there's right to bear arms in the second amendment.
MCCORD: Second amendment as Supreme Court recently as the Heller case in 2008-2009 protects an individual right to bear arms for one's self- protection. The Supreme Court never said it protects the right to gather together and form military units to engage in paramilitary activity. In fact, they made it clear there's no bar by the second amendment to state statutes or constitutional provisions that would prohibit paramilitary activity. In fact, that is what we have in Virginia.
LEMON: Are you worried, Mary, this lawsuit paves the way for limitations on free speech?
MCCORD: We don't think so because what we're seeking is really quite limited. It is a court order that you may not come into the state, you know, acting as a militia in the form of an unauthorized military unit because the constitution of Virginia, like many other constitutions in many other states as well as statutes in many other states, they reserve that authority, the authority over the militia to the state government.
[23:45:20] LEMON: Who is this lawsuit filed on behalf of, Mary?
MCCORD: So it's on behalf of the City of Charlottesville as well as a number of homeowners associations, residential associations, and number of businesses representing a wide sector of the business communities like restaurants, retail establishments, investment offices, architecture firms, and what the community has said with this lawsuit is, as I've gone through and interviewed witnesses and as my team from Georgetown and local counsel interviewed people who were there on that day, is that, you know, they are terrified that these groups are going to come back, because the groups promised to come back. There was a smaller group there that is just last weekend, not engaged in militia activity, but, serge, they are there to terrorize the City and to say they were keeping coming back.
These citizens really remind me of my 20 years as a prosecutor of crime victims that I interviewed that have been victims of violence crimes. That is how they feel, violated that way because when they stood out there in their streets, they tried to go about their lives, based on what they saw, was these very organized military units marching through their streets, going into their parks, not engaging in speech, but sending out 10-20 real soldiers at a time to engage in skirmishes with the counter protesters, they were of mostly men in helmets, shields, crude weapons, bats, batons, clubs, flag poles, you know, engaging in hand-to-hand combat, and then going back in the park with another sore tee to reinforce and take their place.
LEMON: Traumatize, how he feels, having to turn himself in today.
MCCORD: That is right.
LEMON: Thank you, Mary McCord, we appreciate it. Keep us updated. Thank you so much.
MCCORD: Thank you.
LEMON: When we come back, can lawsuits stop White Nationalist and paramilitary groups from marching in the streets of Charlottesville?
[23:51:06] LEMON: Two lawsuits in Charlottesville seeking to prevent future rallies by white nationalists and paramilitary groups. Here to discuss now two attorneys. Bakari Sellers a CNN political commentator, Page Pate CNN legal analyst. Good to have both of you on. Page, you first. I'm sure you heard the interview earlier.
PAGE PATE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I did.
LEMON: So the cases against unite the right organizers give us -- what is your legal -- what do you think? Is this a possibility?
PATE: I don't think so, Don. I mean, I certainly understand the intention here. I mean, clearly the white supremacists who were in Charlottesville, they caused a lot of trouble. You put guns with them, you give them ammunition, they're going to cause serious trouble. But this lawsuit really doesn't address that. I mean, if they were violating the law, and there are all kinds of allegations this this lawsuit that they violated Virginia state law as well as Virginia constitutional provisions, and if they did, there's a way to pursue that, in criminal court. You bring charges against them. You arrest them and then you prove to a jury in court that they violated these particular laws, that they committed a criminal act. But what this lawsuit seeks to do is simply have a Judge say after the fact, based on my review of the evidence, I think they violated the law and then two to tell them not to do it again. So I think the lawsuit is ultimately pointless. If you really want to go after this, you have to arrest these people and you have to prosecutor them.
LEMON: Interesting. Bakari what's your response?
BAKARI SELLERS, FORMER HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I actually agree with him. I think that the lawsuit in a very legal term and what we hear often in a court in which we file a document which many people find to be of this sort is frivolous. I compare this to when individuals sued McKesson from the black lives matter or sued them as a whole. And no one comparing neo-Nazis to BLM, but what I am saying is the vessel used is frivolous just as that that I compared it to. The fact is that I understand the outrage. I understand the goal. I do think that those who are harmed individually, I do think that Heather Heyer's family has grounds to sue the organizers of this march. I do think that anyone was injured has grounds to sue. Anyone who was injured in this march. But just to sue them on behalf of the city and say don't come back I think is a very slippery slope --
LEMON: Is sounds like they're saying they were like an armed militia.
SELLERS: Well, with all due respect, I mean, listen, conservatives, my Republicans, they pick and choose. Donald Trump picks the second amendment. He loves the second amendment. Not so much the first. Like, you know, as an African American male attorney from the south, I have to show equal appreciation for all of them because god bless America, I need every single one of them to work in my favor at the exact same time. And so I'm not in any position to pick and choose which one I want at any given time.
LEMON: Yes. Ok. So I want you to listen. This is a Charlottesville mayor who spoke earlier today about the lawsuit that he is part of. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MIKE SIGNER, (D) CHARLOTTESVILLE: These freelancing armies brought threats and out right violence instead of persuasion, argument, alliances and compromise, they instead see only power and force. And instead of democracy they see the wild west where might makes right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Is freelancing armies a good description of what we saw in Charlottesville? Are they a militia or are they exercising their free speech or second amendment right.
PATE: Well, Don, I always said the protests regardless of their position, they've got a right to say it. They have a right to gather together, March, to speak. They do not have a right to threaten people with violence and they certainly don't have a right to use violence. So once they cross that line, they may very well have violated the criminal statute that the mayor is referring to in your earlier guest was referring to as acting like a paramilitary group. If that is what they've done, then they've violated a criminal law and they need to be prosecuted. What this lawsuit does is it simply asks a Judge to declare there was some violation in the past and tell them not to do it again. It doesn't even try to keep these folks from coming back to Charlottesville. That is not what the lawsuit asks. The law is already there to prevent that.
[23:55:25] LEMON: Bakari, the white nationalist Richard Spencer was back in Charlottesville over the weekend. Leading a much smaller march with a tiki torches. He keeps saying he is going to return. Him returning, is that considered a threat? Could they help these cases?
SELLERS: No, I mean, I don't consider it a threat. As much as we hate Richard Spencer and I use hate very cautiously, because I don't hate many people but I do reserve most of my hate for Nazis and neo- Nazis, as much as we hate Richard Spencer he has every right to come and spew the hatred that he is speaking. That is the freedom of these United States of America. That is what President Trump is developing him in. That is not a threat by any sort. I do think that he has a right to protest. I think the counter protesters have a right to protest. I don't think anything by nature is illegal in that protest.
LEMON: Except for violence.
SELLERS: Whatever Richard is doing. And so, you know, as much as I have an issue with it, he is fortunate enough to be able to do it under the first amendment.
LEMON: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. We're going to keep talking about this because it's going to go on. That is it for us. Thanks for watching. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.