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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Texas Shooting: Gunman had troubled past, threatened mother-in-law; Theresa May: Lawmakers must embrace "new culture of respect"; Leak reveals tax secret of world's elite; Walk through the streets of Delhi; Tennis organization faces accusation of sexism. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 6, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN London. Thanks for being with us on this debut program.
New details on a deadly rampage in a church in Texas. Did a fight with his mother-in-law pushed the shooter over the edge? We are live near the scene
Also, coming up, anti-corruption crusade or unashamed power grab, Saudi Arabia's crowned prince carries out a wave of arrests targeting officials
at the highest levels.
And from the Queen of England to the American commerce secretary, a massive release of documents sheds more light on how the uber rich avoid paying
We start with yet another mass shooting Sunday in Texas this time. Usually the day of rest and worship, this Sunday was very different. The
congregation gathered inside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs.
Outside a gunman dressed in black and a bulletproof vest. He entered the white wooden church and carried out the deadliest shooting in Texas'
history. Twenty six killed and that number could still very well rise.
Yet again, the world asks why as the small town is left to pick up the pieces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Five weeks after the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history, another community shattered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least 26 worshipers were killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When a man opened fire at the church outside of San Antonio.
GORANI (voice-over): Sunday morning worship in a small corner of Texas became as scene of horror.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never in a million years would I expect anything like this. I could never imagine anything like this ever happening here.
GORANI: The 26-year-old Devin Patrick Kelly stormed into a church armed with an assault rifle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He committed the worst mass shooting in the history of the state of Texas.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So sad Sutherland Springs, Texas, such a beautiful wonderful area with incredible people.
Who would ever think a thing like this could happen.
GORANI: Many of the victims were children, the youngest 18 months old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't expect to walk into a church and see something like that especially like when all the bodies were still there,
you know, seeing the children, that's what hurts the most.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is two and three generations of two or three families are not with us anymore.
GORANI: As the gunman left church, he was shot by a local resident before escaping in his car.
JOHNNIE LANGENDORFF, CHASED SHOOTER: The gentleman with the rifle came across the street, opened my door and said he just shot at the church and
we got to chase him, and I said, let's go.
GORANI: The high-speed pursuit ended with the shooter's vehicle run off the side of the road.
FREEMAN MARTIN, SPOKESMAN, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Investigators found evidence at the scene that indicates the subject may
have died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
GORANI: This tiny town left to question why then and why here.
GLORIA RODRIGUEZ XIMENE, KNEW VICTIMS OF CHURCH MASSACRE: Why. Why did this happen? It hurts. The pain is there. The hurt is there. There's no
words for all these families. What they're going through.
GORANI: We'll be speaking with a representative on Capitol Hill about how the United States can stop this after all it's become such a routine story.
Right now, on the scene, Diane Gallagher joins me. She's near where all of this unfolded in Texas. What more do we know about the background of the
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, one question that was asked there in that piece was that why this church? Why Sutherland
Springs? And we are starting to get a bit of a better idea of that at this point. According to law enforcement, the suspect here, Devin Kelly, was in
some sort of domestic dispute with his in-laws.
And we're told that they attended this church. In fact, we are told by family members that Kelly shot and killed his grandmother-in-law, Lula
White on Sunday morning among those 26, who were killed in that sanctuary.
Now some of the questions here, Hala, of course, are how exactly did Kelly get his hands on the weapons that he used. He used a Ruger AR-556 in the
shooting. They found two handguns on him as well.
The question begs because he was court-martialed. He was in the Air Force. He faced a court-martial on two counts of assault, one against the spouse,
one against his child. He served 12-month confinement. He was -- he lost his rank.
[15:05:09] He was pushed on in rank, and so the question is, how was able to legally obtain these firearms because according to our sources, he
purchased that AR-556 back in 2016. He walked into Academy Sport and Outdoor Shop in San Antonio, not too far from here, and bought that gun.
He filled up the paperwork, said that he didn't have any sort of disqualifying information. They didn't find any disqualifying information,
we are told, so at this point, according to the ATF agents, they are trying to figure out how this happened.
If there was a breakdown, if there was a loophole, if there was some form of communication, something that wasn't filled out to determine exactly how
he got his hands on these weapons -- Hala.
GORANI: And we know that in Texas, they love their firearms. They absolutely in many cases, in their majority, don't want the government or
any authority to limit their ability to acquire firearms.
But I wonder in a community like Sutherland Springs that has been hit by this devastation, when you speak to ordinary people around that scene, do
they tell you that their opinion has changed about gun laws or not and if so, why not?
GALLAGHER: So, Hala, we haven't really heard that to be very honest at this point. I think a lot of them are kind of coming to grips with the
fact that, to be honest, a pretty large percentage of their community was killed while they were in their place of worship.
There is only a few hundred people who live in this town so 26 people is very substantial to their population. But we are also hearing people talk
about a good guy with a gun, and in this case, there was a man who lived across the street, who came out.
He got his own AR rifle and he shot at this suspect as he exited the church, got another man and they chased him in their vehicle letting
authorities know where he was. They shot at him. Authorities trying to determine at this point if in fact that gunshot may have mitigated him
escaping and also preventing him from doing anything else.
So, a lot of them are calling him a Texas hero at this point. We are not hearing people right now and again, we are just a little more than 24 hours
since the shooting. They haven't really seemed to come to grips with their thoughts on gun control right now.
GORANI: They are still dealing with the trauma, perfectly understandable. Diane Gallagher, thanks very much in Sutherland Springs, Texas, the site of
just, as we were saying, the latest mass shooting in the United States.
And these tragedies always catapult the issue of gun control back to the forefront in the United States. Often you heard politicians say, it's too
early. It's too early to talk about it. Let's process the trauma, but then when is the right time?
President Trump again says the massacre is a mental health issue and did not question gun laws. Eric Swalwel is a Democrat in the House of
Representatives and he joins me now from Capitol Hill.
Representative Swalwel, obviously, this is our first program, rebranded program this evening. Great to have you on, but certainly not the last
time we are going to be talking sadly about mass shootings in the United States. I think we can predict that pretty confidently.
What does the government need to do, in your opinion, in a Republican- controlled House and a Republican-controlled Senate, that branch of government to try to prevent tragedies like this from happening again?
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC SWALWELL (D), CALIFORNIA: Good evening, Hala. I grieve for these victims in Texas as the country does, but just 30 feet to
my right in front of me are the doors to the House chamber, and a couple hours, the House of Representatives will convene, will open session, and I
pray that our nation's leaders find the courage to finally do something about gun violence in America. We are not helpless to act, but too often
we just show moments of silence and not moments of action.
GORANI: I want to read one of your tweets about the massacre. You said, quote, "Helpless were the worshipers as a madman sprayed bullets into their
sanctuary, not helpless, Congress, can't be our normal #talkaboutitnow."
You say that but really whether it's Democrat-controlled, Republican- controlled, Congress has done over the last several decades very little and every time it's tried, usually these measures have been walked back several
years later or for instance, Savannah on rifles not renewed. Congress seems impotent from the outside looking in. Why is that?
SWALWELL: I'm optimistic, though, that we can still act. I mean, you are right, Democratic and Republican Congresses have failed to protect the
American people, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't act now. And this is an opportunity to put in place, not only the simplest, but I think the most
effective legislation out there --
GORANI: And Congressman --
SWALWELL: -- which would be background --
GORANI: If I can just jump in, Ted Cruz, a senator for Texas is speaking outside the church. I'll get your thoughts on what he is saying in just a
moment. Let's listen.
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: -- but I have to tell you at the same time, even in the hours after this tragedy, there's also inspiration and hope.
We are seeing the community come together.
[15:10:04] I just visited with pastors from throughout South Texas, who have come here to help victims, to help the families, to help all those who
are grieving. We have people contributing food and water, supplies, just spontaneously saying how can we help.
We have people who have given to cover the cost of the funerals. We have the Baptist Men's Group that has given to cover the cost of repairing and
rebuilding the church, and in the face of unspeakable evil, we are seeing Texas coming together.
We are seeing Texans helping Texans, leaning on each other. I will tell the men and women of this community, you're not alone. You are being
lifted up by the prayers of literally millions of Texans, millions of Americans, millions of people across the planets.
The kind of evil that would look at a small child and callously murder that child. That's an evil none of us hope ever to see and yet I want to come
with the word of hope for this community that we will come through it and will come through it, leaning on each other.
I will tell you, much like in the wake of Hurricane Harvey, where Texas saw death and devastation and loss, we also saw inspirational unity and we saw
and are seeing the church stepping forward and caring for our brothers and sisters.
That's what we have done before. It's what we are doing now and it's what we will do going forward. With that, I'm happy to answer a couple of
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible).
GORANI: All right. That is Senator Ted Cruz of Texas. He is right outside the church. Representative Swalwell of California, a Democrat from
California, joins me again from Washington. You know, we hear a lot abroad because we are seen internationally.
When there is a terrorist attack and the terrible tragedy that happened on Halloween Day in New York City, immediately we hear calls for major policy
overhauls. Let's end the visa lottery or the green card lottery program.
When two white men in the space of four weeks shoot more than 600 people with assault rifles, it's just thoughts and prayers. How do you explain to
the world why that is?
SWALWELL: We should learn from the world, Hala, because other countries have had horrific acts of gun violence and they didn't just accept it as
the new normal, they actually enacted laws to protect their citizens.
The best and most effective law we could put in place is to say that every person in America who purchases a firearm has to go through a criminal
background check and mental health wellness check.
That is the most effective thing we can do and in this case, clearly, this individual had a history of violence and that didn't prevent him from
buying a gun.
GORANI: And there are so many loopholes because you go to a gun show, you buy the weapon online, there are many different ways to avoid that. But
the reality is on Capitol Hill, there is so much resistance and not just from Republicans, there are Democrats who come from states where hunting is
very popular, where owning firearms is very popular.
Where they know that politically if they push for gun control laws, it will hurt them in the end. Doesn't it come down to that?
SWALWELL: Hala, we should be clear we are not trying to prevent you from protecting your family, hunting with your kids, or shooting for sport, but
if you have a criminal record, you shouldn't have a gun. If you have mental health issues, you shouldn't have a gun. And Hala, if you're not a
warrior, you shouldn't carry a weapon of war.
GORANI: Yes. But yet, still it happens and there is so much -- I mean, essentially if I had to ask you what would your strategy be as a
representative from California to try to get some of this legislation through when it has been practically impossible to push through Congress?
What would your strategy be?
SWALWELL: It has to come from the will of the American people. The public sentiment will be everything. The American people were able to protect the
Affordable Care Act earlier this year. Their voices were heard, it was safe. Now the American people need to be heard and say not in my
[15:15:06] GORANI: But what you're saying make sense, but a majority of American people as you know want criminal background checks for gun sales.
It's politicians who are resisting it, not the American people.
SWALWELL: That's right. And if politicians don't enact background checks, in 2018, the American people if they can't change minds, will have to
change seats, and hopefully that will be exerted at the ballot box.
GORANI: Representative Eric Swalwell of California, thanks as always, so much for joining us on the program. We really appreciate your time this
Let's turn our attention now to Saudi Arabia. Some major significant news there, is it anticorruption sweep or is the young crown prince, Mohammad
bin Salman, consolidating power and removing his rivals?
But some are calling it a purge has hit officials at the very highest levels, names you know, and you recognize, princes, high-profile
businessmen, government officials. It's a powerful message for the new crown prince and it could be a new era in the kingdom. Nic Robertson
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Riyadh has been rocked this weekend. First by an intercepted missile fired at the
capital by Iranian-back Houthi rebels in Yemen, then by the scale and scope of a counter corruption initiative announced by King Salman almost
At least 17 princes and top officials arrested. They are among 38 current and former ministers and deputy ministers arrested. The king's son, the
old powerful Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman warned six months ago this was coming.
MOHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, SAUDI CROWN PRINCE (through translator): I assure you that no one involved in a corruption case will be spared no matter if he is
a prince or a minister. With enough evidence, anyone will be held accountable.
ROBERTSON: But is the status of some arrested that are sending shockwaves, multi-billionaire businessman, Alwaleed Bin Talal, a protagonist for change
in the conservative kingdom, his kingdom holdings group with stakes in Citigroup, Twitter, Apple and News Corp saw $750 million wiped off his
Another big powerful businessman targeted, Bakr Bin Laden, chairman of the massive Bin Laden Construction Group, also worth billions, a former ally of
the lost king. Many of the arrested rumored to be held in the swanky Riyadh Rich Carlton Hotel where President Trump stayed earlier this year.
Among the arrested two of the previous King Abdullah's sons, Metib Bin Abdullah, minister of the important tribal National Guard and Turki Bin
Abdullah, the former governor of Riyadh, raising concerns the corruption crackdown is also a consolidation of power for the crown prince.
Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman has enjoyed a meteoric rise in the ranks of Saudi royals since his father became king almost three years ago. He
has reshuffled the government from his (inaudible) drive while rolling out an ambitious employment and diversification agenda.
Events this weekend underlying the changes sweeping the country causing some to wonder when the crown prince will become king. Nic Robertson, CNN,
GORANI: It's not just what was happening in Riyadh, it's what's happening all over the region, and it's all related, by the way. Over the weekend,
Lebanon's prime minister quits, Saad Hariri. He said he fears for his life.
Hours ago, Hariri met with the Saudi King Salman two days after announcing his resignation from Riyadh. Those are the images of the two men together.
But the blame game of who is behind the move has just begun.
Hariri is attacking Iran and Hezbollah. Tehran is insisting Saudi Arabia and the United States are behind the decision.
Let's break this all down for you. Fawaz Gerges is chair of Contemporary Middle East Studies at the London School of Economics, and from Beirut, my
colleague, senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman.
Fawaz, I would start with you first as we discussed this with the two of you. Is this an anti-corruption sweep or is the crown prince who is only
32, 33 years old, is he getting rid of his rivals here, the old guard?
FAWAZ GERGES, CHAIRMAN, CONTEMPORARY MIDDLE EAST STUDIES, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: I mean, I think it's that, although, I think the compass, this
man is consolidating his power. He is putting his vision for Saudi (inaudible) practice. He has sent a powerful message to the power elite,
the business elite, and the royal elite, there is a new order in place, a new system.
Remember, if you want to understand really what he did, who is his primary target? The primary target of the measures are young, ordinary Saudis, who
look up to the Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, who feel (inaudible) that they are asked to really tighten their belts --
[15:20:09] GORANI: But he's starting two conflicts, one was the clerics, women can drive soon, you know, we want moderate Islam, the rest of it, and
two was the old guard, some of whom are his relatives, some of whom served as virtual prime ministers in the monarchy.
GERGES: And this tells you, Hala, how ambitious and expensive his vision and the risks --
GERGES: And the risks involved. Remember, there is no clarity so far. It's going to take a long time for the new order to be put in face and the
reality is there is a new boss in Riyadh. Everyone knows it, including the most powerful man in the Saudi kingdom, not adjust the power elite, the
clerical elite. He has made it very clear. He wants to transform Saudi Arabia in particular socially and economically.
GORANI: All right. Ben Wedeman in Beirut with the resignation of Saad Hariri. Is it the view of those there that Saudi pulled the strings on
this? That they wanted Saad Hariri to step down and if so, why?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no unanimous view on anything here in Lebanon. People see things in very
different ways, but many people do believe that Saudi Arabia essentially as Hassan Nasrallah, the secretary general of Hezbollah, said last night,
saying, that the statement, the announcement by Saad Hariri, Saturday afternoon about his resignation was dictated to him by the Saudis.
And just this evening, we are seeing statements by Thamer Al-Sabhan, who is the Saudi Minister for Arab Gulf Affairs, saying that Saudi Arabia
considers the government of Lebanon to be a government of a declaration of war because of its relations with the Hezbollah militias.
He goes on to say that Lebanon has a choice to either have peace or to be within the fold of Hezbollah. These are fighting words. These are all
words which will only exacerbate the situation. So, Saad Hariri when he announced his resignation accused Iran of interference in Lebanon's
But certainly, if we go look at the statements by Thamer Sabhan, the Saudi Minister for Gulf Affairs, that definitely seems like the same thing, Saudi
interference in Lebanese affairs because the fact of the matter is like Hezbollah or not, it is a prime player in Lebanese politics. To exclude
them condemns this country to a disastrous war -- Hala.
GORANI: But Ben, so the question is what happens to this government? It took them two years to agree on a president. Now all of a sudden, we are
back -- thrown into chaos, the government, the country, its future, once again.
WEDEMAN: Yes, yes, this is a prescription for political paralysis and that's the optimistic outlook. Now this government that was formed in
December 2016 was very much the product of or a result of the agreement with Iran on its nuclear program.
It was a government that essentially was blessed by the Saudis, by the Iranians, by the Americans, which brought Saad Hariri, who is very close to
the Saudis into a government with several ministers affiliated with Hezbollah.
It was an imperfect government, but it pasted over the divisions within Lebanon, which now are thrown open, wide open again, and the potential for
serious trouble is now gone really through the roof after a period of 11 months where did seem that there was a modicum of agreement between the
GORANI: And that's the question, Fawaz, I mean, you told me that inside Lebanon and frankly all over the region, there is so much concern that this
-- that other things, other developments over the last several weeks mean that conflict, let's say between Hezbollah and Israel, other frontlines,
that this is now a lot more likely.
GERGES: Absolutely, Hala. There is a dangerous escalation throughout the Middle East, dangerous geostrategic escalations. Think how many times we
have talked about the end of the so-called Islamic State in the city in Iraq. The end of the so-called Islamic State is not going to bring about
stability rather geostrategic rivalries.
And now people are talking about Israel using what's happening between, I mean, Iran and Saudi Arabia in order to launch a war against Hezbollah.
Imagine another war in Lebanon, but the reality is, the next few weeks and next few months, we are going to witness escalation of geostrategic
rivalries between Iran and Saudi Arabia, in Yemen, in Lebanon, in Iraq, and beyond as well.
[15:25:13] GORANI: Fawaz Gerges, thanks very much.
Meantime, all these high-level ministers and princes at the Rich under house arrest. We'll see how that goes. Always appreciate your time. Ben
Wedeman in Beirut.
Still to come, as Trump doubles down on tough North Korea talk, a key Asian ally says it has his back. This as North Korea says it's watching closely.
Stay with us for the latest.
GORANI: The American president, Donald Trump, is in Tokyo today defending his aggressive rhetoric on North Korea as he visits the country
increasingly worried about its neighbor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The era of strategic patience is over. Some people said that my rhetoric is very
strong, but look what's happened with very weak rhetoric over the last 25 years. Look what we are right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The Japanese prime minister, Shinzo Abe, seems to have his back saying today, he's 100 percent agrees with Mr. Trump's strategy on
Pyongyang. The North, of course, has fired two missiles over Japan just in the last few months. Japan certainly has been on edge. It is the first
stop on Mr. Trump's five-day tour of Asia.
In a few hours, he is due to fly to South Korea bringing him closer still to North Korea. Officials there tell CNN they are keeping a close eye on
Mr. Trump's trip. Naturally, we are following the story closely for you.
Our senior international correspondent, Ivan Watson is in Seoul, the capital of South Korea. So, when the president of the United States said
the era of strategic patience is over. How is that interpreted once again in Seoul?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not a new statemen. It's something that his administration has been saying for
months now. He is at odds with the campaign platform of South Korea's president, Moon Jae-in, who was elected in May, who promised to embark on
diplomacy with North Korea.
Part of the problem is, is that North Korea then embarked on just a fit, a rash of ballistic and intercontinental ballistic missile launches, as well
as another nuclear test, and that has kind of pushed the would-be peacemaker here in South Korea closer into the arms of President Trump, who
isn't necessarily an ideal -- a natural ideological ally of Moon Jae-in and closer to Japan as well.
So, you've got an increase of trilateral military exercises by Japan. The U.S. and South Korea as well as a number of bilateral military exercises
between South Korea and the U.S. that's come as a response to the bellicose moves from North Korea.
The meeting will be interesting because President Trump will not be traveling up to the demilitarized zone. Instead, he's going to head south
from Seoul and go to Camp Humphrey. That's a new sprawling US military base that came to the tune of more than $10 billion and South Korea paid
for most of it, more than 90 percent of that.
That's pretty symbolic because President Trump campaigned for office complaining about allies that were allegedly freeloading off of the US
security umbrella. This is a way for the South Koreans to show, no, in fact, we're helping, we're partners in this security endeavor.
One area where there could be friction, it's trade. That's something that President Trump has been pushing hard. He argues that if there's a trade
deficit, it's bad for the US. And he has pledged to renegotiate a free- trade agreement with South Korea that was negotiated by the Obama administration. That's another potential tough point.
Finally, President Trump is not very popular here, Hala. Polls show that South Koreans don't like him compared to President Obama, and that more
than 50 percent of them, according to one October survey, they say it they think he's a threat to peace and stability here. Hala?
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Ivan Watson in Seoul, thanks very much. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
GORANI: Welcome back. We are starting to piece together a clear picture of the person who gunned down 26 people and wounded 20 others as they
attended a church service in Texas just yesterday.
A Sutherland Springs resident tell us that Devin Patrick Kelley would've known or at least spoken to every single person that he killed.
Authorities say Kelly had sent threatening text messages to his mother-in- law, including one Sunday before the attack. The 26-year-old was discharged from the military for bad conduct after being court-martialed
for assaulting his wife and child.
Texas denied Kelly a gun license, but he bought the semiautomatic rifle used in the attack a year-and-a-half ago. US president says gun control -
still says gun control - is not the issue today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This isn't a guns situation. I mean, we could go into it, but it's a little bit soon to go into it.
But, fortunately, somebody else had a gun that was shooting in the opposite direction. Otherwise, it would've been as bad as it was. It would've been
But this is a mental health problem at the highest level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, authorities have not yet said if the gunman had any known mental health issues. Let's get the latest on the investigations. Senior
law enforcement analyst and former assistant director at the FBI Tom Fuentes joins me now from Washington.
[15:35:05] So, Tom, it is picking up in pace these mass shootings in America. This problem is getting worse. Why do you think that is?
TOM FUENTES, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you've had so many of these shootings.
I think, just in general, society, whether it's politicians, whether it's other leaders, whether it's people on social media, have become so negative
and so critical of each other and there's just so much in the media that just fosters this lack of can't-we-all-get-along type attitude.
And I think it's manifesting itself that if somebody is close to going over the edge, it may be enough to encourage them to just go ahead, become
violent, take actions that you want to take and not control yourself.
GORANI: But do you agree that the access to firearms is an issue here as well?
FUENTES: Absolutely. Of course, it's an issue. In the United States, with 330 million people, we have over 300 million firearms. And the easy
access to them enables people to go ahead and carry through an act that maybe if it wasn't quite so easy, they wouldn't do it.
Or if they - we have had cases where people have committed stabbings and others, but to get face-to-face and hand-to-hand with someone to hurt them
is a lot different than using a semi-automatic weapon at somewhat of a distance where you don't have to get really close to the victim.
GORANI: Talk to us a little bit about the investigation. What's happening now? It's the same kind of sad, familiar, I guess, kind of - sort of back-
timing the movements of the shooter, looking at his computer, looking at his background.
FUENTES: The most essential aspect of these kind of investigations, try to identify, is there anybody else that he was in contact with or conspiring
or could there be someone else out there like-minded to commit a mass murder like he just did.
Or the investigation may disclose, as there are some pieces supporting the idea, that this was a domestic personal complaint against the shooter and
his in-laws. And, in fact, his mother-in-law's mother is among the victims that he killed at that church.
So, it could strictly be an act of just personal hatred against one individual. It doesn't explain why he didn't go to their residence and
just attack them, why he had to take all of these other victims with him. But it seems to be that that may have something to do with it.
GORANI: In the absence of new gun laws, and it doesn't seem like Congress is going to act any time soon on that -
GORANI: What would you say is a way to at least try to prevent these shooting, try to make them less deadly? What can be done without new
legislation in your opinion?
GORANI: Australia had a massacre a couple of decades ago involving an assault rifle. And they changed their love. They didn't ban assault
What they said is, if you're going to have one, you're going to register it and we're going to know about it. So, they didn't completely take it away.
And they had a tremendous buyback program.
And unlike the United States, the Australians, both houses, completely agreed. There was unanimity of purpose on the part of the legislation or
the legislators in Australia, which we don't see on any single issue here. They don't get along long enough to make any change.
GORANI: So, what do you do? People feel helpless. I was listening to our own coverage. And there were experts saying, every time you enter a
location, you should check to see what the nearest exit is. If you go to church. I mean, these are the types of recommendations you get when you go
to a war zone to make sure you have two exits.
FUENTES: No, exactly. That's where we're getting.
GORANI: It's just - it sounds mad. It sounds mad that, 2017, in America, people are told when you go to church or a movie theater, make sure you
know where the exit is just in case someone walks in with a semi-automatic rifle.
FUENTES: Exactly right. It's a mad world, a mad policy to go along with that and try to adapt your life to the fact that this might occur or it's a
good possibility that's going to occur in this country. And you're right. It's completely wrong.
But I was on the air with Wolf Blitzer the day of the Sandy Hook massacre. And Wolf asked me, surely, the legislation will be changed to ban these
assault rifles. I said, Wolf, I doubt it, I doubt a thing will happen. And that's been the case.
If the massacre of a couple of dozen young children in their school doesn't cause a shift, what would? The massacre at Las Vegas? The massacre here?
Or some of the other events that we've had. It just doesn't move the political needle at all.
GORANI: We give the death toll. But we have to remember that the number of people killed in those two massacres was over 600 by two men. Sorry,
injured. I'm sorry, shot and injured. And then, obviously, dozens killed. So, the number is like a war zone number.
FUENTES: Right. And then the politicians say, oh, this is too soon, we can't talk about this now. It just happened. It's too raw. We can't do
[15:40:06] OK. Talk about Las Vegas. That's been a month. Can we go there? Can we talk about Orlando? Can we talk about any number of other
events that have happened? We don't. We don't want to. We're not going to. And that's just the way it is.
And then, we'll be here again, maybe in a month, maybe in six months. We will be doing this, having the same exact discussion again.
GORANI: Tom Fuentes, thanks very much. It is depressing, but it's important to cover it and to cover the issues. Thanks for joining us.
Let's talk about those sexual harassment scandals that have spread far and wide after Harvey Weinstein. There's one beating at the very heart of
British politics and it keeps growing.
Now, Theresa May is demanding a new culture of respect. Several lawmakers are now under investigation after a range of allegations were made. It has
gone right to the top of government, with top cabinet member Michael Fallon resigning. He was the defense secretary.
And the Prime Minister's de facto secretary deputy denying allegations that extreme pornography was found on his computer. Here is what Theresa May
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: What is being revealed over the last few weeks has been deeply troubling and has understandably led to
significant public unease.
Women and men should be able to work free from the threat or fear of harassment, bullying or intimidation. But for too long, the powerful have
been able to abuse their power and their victims have not felt able to speak out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Theresa May. Let's go live to the Houses of Parliament. Diana Magnay is there. So, this sexual harassment scandal is just the latest
major test for May's leadership?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is absolutely right. She had a catastrophic election result earlier this year where she lost her
There has been a lot of bad blood over Brexit that has plagued her government ever since then. And now, just when you think that she couldn't
get any weaker, her top aides are having to resign under investigation because of this sexual harassment scandal, which doesn't seem to be letting
up at all.
And what is also interesting is that this should be an issue where Theresa May is really able to excel. She knows better than anyone what is to be a
woman in Westminster.
And although she is saying the right words, and today she met with the leaders of the other parties in parliament to try and establish a new HR
system in parliament, you don't get the feeling that she's really being aggressive about this.
Why is that? It might be that she is hamstrung by concerns that it would claim more of her top political allies. It might be that she just doesn't
have the leadership qualities after this very, very difficult year.
But it certainly serves to make a weak government and the week prime minister even weaker in the eyes of Brussels and all of those in the EU
with which Britain is going to have to negotiate Brexit and also in the eyes of her public, the country. Hala?
GORANI: So, what happens next? I mean, they're promising enquiries and looking into all of this. What's the next step at Westminster?
MAGNAY: Well, she doesn't seem to have a grand strategy of what the next step should be beyond trying to improve the reporting system, so that
people who do have concerns, grievances that they want to report can do so anonymously to an independent body, and not fear for their future.
It is all very well saying we need to replace what has effectively been a predatory culture in the corridors of Westminster with a culture of
respect. And in that sense, Westminster and politicians should really be taking the lead because this is clearly not an issue that is unique to
But there isn't really a grand strategy. And it is not the first time that sleaze and claims of harassment have come up in relation to Westminster.
And they haven't necessarily been crushed before.
And when you speak to people, they say it's all well and good. This is now being discussed and it's being talked about. Will it be enough to stamp
out this culture which thrives on a kind of late night, heavy drinking culture in Westminster? Will this actually be a time when, because the
national conversation is there, it crushes it? Perhaps. And let's hope so.
But it is extraordinary that what started off with all the allegations around Harvey Weinstein in Hollywood has now come right to the top of the
corridors of power here.
GORANI: Thank you, Diana Magnay at Westminster. Still to come, a major leak of documents reveals tax secrets of the world's elite, and it includes
the queen of England.
We'll be right back.
[15:46:55] GORANI: The queen of England to the US commerce secretary, just two of the big names mentioned in a colossal leak called the Paradise
Papers. Remember the Panama Papers? This is similar, but it's called Paradise Papers.
It reveals just who among the world's super rich invested their wealth in secretive tax havens or attempted to hide assets.
There are 13 million documents. They were made public by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalism.
Now, the use of offshore accounts is often legitimate. So, that's important to underline as the US commerce secretary says, and he's right to
say. But the leak does expose the extent of their use and more findings are to be published in the coming days.
Joining me now here is our own Richard Quest. I wouldn't have dreamt of having a first show without you.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Congratulations.
GORANI: Thank you so much, Richard.
QUEST: Congratulations, wonderful.
GORANI: Thank you. So, Wilbur Ross, the US commerce secretary, what are we talking about?
QUEST: So, he's invested in a company and one of the major customers of this company is a Russian company. That's the long and short of it.
QUEST: That's it.
GORANI: Nothing illegal about it?
QUEST: Well, he declared his investment in the company -
QUEST: But, obviously, he doesn't necessarily know every major customer of this company. And even if he did, there's nothing wrong. The Russian
company involved is not sanctioned. The Russian company involved is not - there's no reason for Wilbur Ross -
GORANI: Did he divest before taking his post?
QUEST: Not sure. No, no.
QUEST: Yes, yes. Of course, in that sense. He had to divest of all his things because -
GORANI: Of his holdings in Navigator and those -
QUEST: Yes, yes. Sorry, yes.
GORANI: What do we learn then from it?
QUEST: Well, take the queen, for example. The queen's assets, of the Duchy of Lancaster, which invested some of them in an offshore fund.
You have a pension fund. I have a pension fund. Many of you have pensions funds. They have investments in offshore funds.
GORANI: But is it a loophole not to pay tax?
QUEST: It can be a tax advantageous reporting. However, under the new CRS, Common Reporting System for taxation, all these jurisdictions have to
now report back to home authorities who has invested where.
GORANI: But it is also a way of dodging tax.
QUEST: You say dodging tax. No, it's a way of avoiding tax. There's a difference.
Now, more importantly, much more important than these papers are where people have used these constructs to shield something like this, allegation
about Arsenal and Everton, or the potential allegation against Lord Ashcroft where people have deliberately obfuscated what the true situation
is. That's a different matter.
But just having an offshore trust, this puritanical crusade is somewhat absurd.
GORANI: Well, I think because most people who are salaried employees, who don't make millions, who don't have tens of millions and sometimes hundreds
of millions of dollars to invest anywhere feel like the elite don't play by the same rules.
QUEST: They don't.
[15:50:02] GORANI: That they find ways to, you say avoid, I say dodge taxes by placing their wealth offshore, for instance. But this is what
these papers reveal, the two-speed world we live in. The very, very tiny sliver of elites and the rest of us.
QUEST: OK. And the rest of us managed to take something from those crumbs because our pension funds are investing in them and our pension funds are
doing better because they've invested in them.
So far, from what I've seen in the early days of the Paradise Papers, I've seen certain less-than-pleasant operational things, but I've not seen any
like the Panama Papers.
GORANI: That was a different kettle of fish, but we still have more revelations to come from these Paradise Papers.
QUEST: Well, if you work on the basis that you do the best first, I wouldn't hold your breath. Like, tonight's program.
GORANI: Exactly. And we'll see you at the top of the hour on "Quest Means Business".
QUEST: We will.
GORANI: Richard - and don't forget - thank you. You can check out all our latest interviews and analysis online. Facebook.com/HalaGoraniCNN. We'll
be right back.
GORANI: Well, we've been all across the globe for you this hour. And now, let's head to India with its - obviously, its traditions and its
A longtime resident there shows us around Delhi's street and gives us a taste of the world-famous street food there.
ANUBHAV SAPRA, DELHI RESIDENT: Old Delhi is known as the street food capital of India. There are more than 400 street food joints just in Old
Hello. My name is Anubhav Sapra. I do street food walks in Old Delhi. Let me take you on a street food tour in Old Delhi in India.
Over here, you have roasted sweet potatoes, what we call shakarkandi. That's star fruit. And in Hindi, we call it kamrakh. And then you have
lemon. And you add there some spices over it. This is roasted. And then, they serve it in different pieces and (INAUDIBLE).
Here you get some exotic vegetables as well, like you have broccoli, corn, star fruit, then fresh turmeric.
From the eyes of foreigners, it's more like an organized chaos. So, once you enter Old Delhi, you will see carts parked everywhere, the food carts.
The food also changes from one lane to other lanes. Everything is, like, so vibrant in terms of the food, the bazaar, the culture, the people.
This is a very common street food all over India, what we call Pani Puri. And there are different variations in different cities. At some places,
they call it Puchka. In Delhi, they call it Gol Gappa. If you go east India (ph), they call it Batashe. So, they are different names of this
particular street delicacy.
These are mutton seekh kebabs. That's minced meat put over skewers and then they are grilled over charcoal. It's a very, very popular street
delicacy in Old Delhi. And we can simply create havoc from the skewers. We don't have to even take it out from the skewer.
Here, we are at Gali Paranthe Wali and we're going to have naan khatai here. This is very similar to short breads. This is made up of chickpea
flour, (INAUDIBLE), white flour, (INAUDIBLE) butter, cardamom and sugar. And they bake it right here on the street. In Old Delhi, there are many
carts that sell naan khatai, but this is the best one.
[15:55:06] So, that's kind of warmth and affection you won't get in any other parts of the city. When I do the tours, it's more about experiencing
the food and the people and the region through of an eye of a local person. So, that's what old Delhi is for me.
GORANI: A major tennis association is facing accusations of sexism, following what should have been a straightforward PR event. Here is why.
GORANI: These are under 21 tennis players at a draw ceremony in Milan being walked down the catwalk by models. At the end, a model reveals a
letter on her body indicating which group the player is in for the competition. It's terribly awkward.
The event has been called sexist and a disgrace. The ATP - the tennis association that organized the event, apologized saying they deeply regret
the ceremony and say the draw was carried out in poor taste.
This has been the first edition of HALA GORANI TONIGHT. Thanks so much for watching us. You can find us here every weeknight at 8 PM in London, 9 PM
Central European Time and everywhere around the world. We hope you'll join us.
Thanks for watching. Stay with CNN. "Quest Means Business" is up next.