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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Trumps Weighs Declaring Jerusalem Israeli Capital; UK, EU Fail To Reach Agreement On Northern Ireland Border; Republic Of Ireland Fears Hard Border With UK; Traffickers Use Faith To Lure Nigerian Women; "On Japan": Serving The Perfect Eel. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired December 4, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Good evening. I'm Hala Gorani. We are coming to you live from CNN London.
Tonight, Donald Trump fires back, the American president once again defends his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, as new details emerge
about what Trump may have known about Flynn's lie and when.
Plus, this hour, no deal for now, a crucial deadline in Brexit talks passed without agreement.
And a CNN exclusive this hour, you want to stick around for this, we show you dramatic operating room video. How a South Korean doctor worked to
save a critically injured North Korean defector. We have that story for you.
And we start with Donald Trump, he's once again reversing the legacy of his predecessors, in this case, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton. He's just
announced a new plan to drastically slash the size of more than a million hectares of protected natural wilderness in America.
It's a move that will please Republicans who want less regulation and government control, but it is angering conservationists and it could
trigger major legal battle over the land.
We are also learning new details critical to the Russia investigation. CNN has learned that President Trump's attorney told him in January that
Michael Flynn, who was at the time, the president's national security advisor, lied to the FBI or misled the FBI.
That would mean that the president let Michael Flynn stay on the job for weeks before firing him even though he knew at the time that Michael Flynn
had not told the FBI the truth about some meetings he had during the transition. Now once again Mr. Trump defended Flynn calling charges
against him very unfair.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I feel badly for General Flynn. I feel very badly. He's led a very strong life and I feel
very badly, John. I will say this, Hillary Clinton lied many times to the FBI, nothing happened to her. Flynn lied and they destroyed his life. I
think it's a shame.
Hillary Clinton on the fourth of July weekend went to the FBI, not under oath. It was the most incredible thing anyone has ever seen, she lied many
times. Nothing happened to her. Flynn lied and it's like they ruined his life. It's very unfair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's fact check this first of all and we are joined by CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson, and CNN political analyst and
"Washington Post" columnist, Josh Rogin.
So, Stephen, the president there is saying that Hillary Clinton lied and nothing happened to her whereas Michael Flynn lied and his life is ruined.
That is not accurate, is it?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: That's right. It's not substantiated. In fact, James Comey, the fired FBI director said that
Hillary Clinton did not lie in her testimony to the FBI regarding her private e-mail server.
What the president there is doing as he often does is sort of throwing smoke turning to his attacks on Hillary Clinton when he is on the political
or legal pressure. I think you also have to ask whether he is sending some kind of message to Michael Flynn.
Flynn, of course, last week concluded a plea deal with the special counsel, James Comey, which could very likely see him testify to the special
counsel, Robert Mueller, about the president's actions and people in the -- and the actions of people in the president's inner circle.
So, is the president by staying loyal to Flynn trying to send a message there and you also have to ask the question why has the president
repeatedly defended Michael Flynn even though he knew he lied to the FBI. What does he think that Flynn might say?
GORANI: And Josh, you could hear jaws dropping over the weekend from thousands of miles away when President Trump tweeted out that he knew in
January that Michael Flynn had basically misled the FBI.
This is what you tweeted, "I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the vice president and the FBI. He's pled guilty to those lies. It's a
shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide."
And then we heard from his personal attorney that in fact he had authored this, and we are hearing today according to reports into CNN that the White
House counsel told the president back in January that Michael Flynn had misled the FBI yet he stayed in the job for weeks after that.
[15:05:12] I guess, my question, Josh is, why would the White House once want to tell people about knowing that the president knew about all this so
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, there's no way that this disclosure by President Trump helps him. It actually creates many more
problems for him in the ongoing Russia investigation and this is something that will surely be followed up on by the special prosecutor.
And whether or not the lawyer wrote it or Trump wrote it himself is kind of relevant in the end. Either it's true or it's not true, and if he did know
about it, it gives new context to his firing of James Comey, he's asking of James Comey to let Flynn get away with it, according to James Comey.
And let's also remember, this is part of a just a series of President Trump's attacks in the FBI. He said that the organization was in tatters.
That is in its worst case in years. Over the last few days, he's said that they've been riddled with scandals, including a member who allegedly sent
He's also been helping the House investigation, which is looking into the dossier by pressing the Justice Department to cooperate with them. So, in
a number of ways, the president of the United States is directly interfering in the investigation into his own administration, and doing so
in a blatant and public way.
GORANI: Let's talk about the Senate race in Alabama. Stephen Collinson, the president has once again endorsed the accused child molester, Roy
Moore. The Democratic challenger, Doug Jones in Alabama is, it appears according to at least one poll, within striking distance of the Republican
Why is the president -- even though he won't be actively campaigning for Roy Moore, why does he believe it's in his best interest to support him?
COLLINSON: There are a number of things going on. The first one is political. We saw the tax bill, the big tax reform bill, was a big
Republican wish list is the first big issue that Trump has got through Congress. It will do when it eventually gets to his desk.
That passed by the narrowest of margins. The president is basically not making a calculation that even though Moore is in many eyes, you know,
disqualified from serving as a senator because of his alleged past behavior.
It's far better to get a tarnished Republican into the Senate than have a Democrat, who will further narrow the president's working majority as he
comes up against more big agenda items next year.
I think the president is also making a sort of electoral calculation. He is sending a message to the Republican leadership that his base, his white
working-class voters in many cases, who generally support Moore should not be taken on for granted by establishment leaders, who come out and said
they actually believe the allegations made by women against Judge Moore.
So, he's almost playing a political game against the leaders of his own party. I think he's saying -- he's making the point that for all of the
Republican establishment suspicion of Trump himself. He has his own power base and is willing to use it.
GORANI: And we were showing that "Washington Post"/George Mason University poll, one of the issues with Alabama polling is usually not a competitive
state. There isn't -- I mean, a wealth of pulling figures we can look at.
This is the "Washington Post"/GMU as I mentioned 50 to 47 percent. It would be pretty significant. It would be huge, in fact, if the Democrat
won this race, right?
COLLINSON: Yes, that's right. It would be unheard of and if you talk to a lot of people who just been down in Alabama, Hala, they -- most people
think that Moore is going to prevail whatever the polls say just because of what you said how difficult is the poll Alabamans. It is a solid
Republican state. It has been for years. It would be a huge upset, even in these circumstances, if Moore were to lose.
GORANI: And a quick last one to Josh, Billy Bush, the man who was on that Access Hollywood tape that came out before election day in which we hear
the now president at the time he was the star of "The Apprentice" brag about grabbing women by their private parts, et cetera.
He's come out and said despite reports that Donald Trump may be questioning the authenticity of this tape, he did say all these things. But that won't
register with the base, will it?
ROGIN: Well, that's right. If you didn't blame -- well, let's remember that President Trump admitted saying all these things after the tape came
out and it didn't affect him with his base then so there's no reason that it's going to affect him with his base now.
[15:10:10] But what we see here is, you know, Billy Bush another person whose career was ruined just by being in proximity to Donald Trump trying
to, you know, explain himself and to come out on the side of these women very clearly after, you know, the Harvey Weinstein allegations change the
conversation here and watched about sexual harassment.
And you know, when you think about Roy Moore, Donald Trump, they are the two examples of senior politicians who have just refused to admit any sort
of culpability, attacked their accusers, and they stand alone in that respect.
And I think Billy Bush is expressing the sentiments of many when he says that actually these women are to be believed, and powerful figures are to
be held accountable.
GORANI: And the sentiments -- in fact the president's own daughter, Ivanka. Thank you very much, Josh Rogin and Stephen Collinson.
Now to a shocking event in the Middle East that has instantly transformed the political landscape of Yemen, which has been locked in brutal conflict
for three years.
The former president who held power for decades has been killed by Houthi rebels who used to be his allies. We are going to show you a video
apparently of Ali Abdullah Saleh in death now. It is disturbing to say the least.
It shows the stark reality of a country gripped by relentless violence. You see we are going to freeze the frame here, the faith of the individual
looks very much like Saleh. He once compared governing Yemen to dancing on the heads on snakes.
Well, that dance was always precarious, and it turned out to be deadly for him. There are fears Saleh's death will inflame the proxy war between
Saudi Arabia and Iran and Yemen fighting and airstrikes are intensifying as always civilians are caught in the middle.
Senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman, joins me now from Beirut. How significant is this killing of the former President Saleh?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's usually significant not just because of his historical importance for Yemen. He
served as president for more than 30 years, but basically, he was a key partner of the Houthis and their alliance against the Saudi-led coalition.
Now on Saturday, he came out and said that he wanted to turn a new page with the Saudi-led coalition. He described his former Houthi allies as
idiots and that obviously brought down the wrath of the Houthis upon him.
Now the Saudi-led coalition had hoped that this would provide some sort of way out or a breakthrough in the conflict with the Houthis, but it was
always clear that Saleh was the weaker partner in that alliance.
And the Houthis did not hesitate to try to crush Saleh and his tribal allies and therefore, we see him, his tribal followers now in something of
disarray as a result. Now it's interesting. The Saudi-backed media out of the Gulf and elsewhere went as Saleh has sort of announced his change of
heart regarding the Houthis before they described him as the ousted president.
Then they changed into the former president, and they clearly thought that this might be an opportunity to break down the Houthi alliance and somehow
make headway against them, but it appears that plan has severely backfired.
We have heard the (inaudible), the president of the Saudi-backed government calling upon the Yemenis to rise up against the Houthis, but that may not
be enough to break their power.
GORANI: But I guess, bigger picture, what does this mean for the conflict? Because just over the weekend we are talking with people killed, civilians
starving, blockades, airstrikes, I mean, the country is collapsing.
WEDEMAN: Well, in a sense it's already collapsed long ago, but certainly, analysts seemed to agree that this is going to only make the conflict worse
in terms of the level of violence. Since it began more than 10,000 people have died as a result of bombs and bullets, but thousands more have died
from disease and malnutrition and starvation.
And that's only going to get worse and we can expect, for instance, the Saudi=led coalition to intensify its attacks on Sanaa, the capital, on the
Houthis and the only certainty at this point is more death -- Hala.
GORANI: I know. It's really just the pictures emerging from there are becoming more and more shocking. Thanks very much, Ben Wedeman, live from
[15:15:07] Still to come this evening --
GORANI: A CNN exclusive, doctors in South Korea race to save the life of a North Korean defector.
And this piece of land, the Irish border has been a sticking point between the U.K. and the E.U. I discuss the results of today's crucial Brexit
talks within the Irish member of the European Parliament. We'll be right back.
GORANI: American fighter jets roared over South Korea today as the North warned joint US-South Korea combat exercises are pushing the countries
closer to nuclear war. The U.S. Air Force said these exercises involve the largest ever concentration of advanced fighter jets over South Korea. That
includes super stealth jets that experts say North Korean radar systems could not detect.
Meanwhile, a top Trump administration official is warning not to underestimate the threat from North Korea or the threat even of open
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H.R. MCMASTER, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: I think it's increasing every day, which means they were in a race, really, we are in a race to be
able to solve this problem. There are ways to address this problem short of our conflict, but it is a race because he's getting closer and closer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And we've heard that from others, former officials as well saying, don't underestimate the possibility, even perhaps, that the United States
might conduct some sort of preemptive strike. There is a lot of tension in the region and so many possible options.
Against that backdrop, North Korea's latest defector, a young soldier is the focus of international attention after a death-defying escape to South
Korea. He was shot several times as he fled across the border.
And medical teams worked for days to save his life. CNN was given exclusive access to the video what unfolded in the operating room with the
permission of the soldier, it has to be noted, and we warn you that some viewers may find the images disturbing. Here is CNN's Paula Newton.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are watching a U.S. Black Hawk chopper touchdown as a South Korean trauma team gears up to save
the life of Oh Chong Song. This is an exclusive look at the harrowing efforts to a North Korean defector. Shot five times as he escaped over the
DMZ already bleeding out. He is turning blue and having trouble breathing.
He is now in the protective care of Trauma Surgeon Dr. Lee Cook-jong. He takes us through his crucial medical mission minute by precious minute.
[15:20:04] (on camera): And at this point, he had already lost more than half his blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Much more, much more (inaudible), yes, ma'am. (Inaudible) so unstable. So yes, he was dying (inaudible). He was dying
NEWTON: I'm watching all the transfusions of blood, one, two --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. That's right.
NEWTON (voice-over): Utterly composed and deliberate, Dr. Lee shows us a 30-minute epic effort to keep Mr. Oh breathing. Something you can see on
any given day in (inaudible) trauma bay. It's the key to Mr. Oh's miraculous survival.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been doing this kind of job every single day.
NEWTON: Mr. Oh's saved life is ready for the next battle, a grueling five- hour surgery. Dr. Lee is methodical. Bullet holes (inaudible) system dangerously riddled with open wounds.
The American-trained trauma specialist is ready for that, but not (inaudible) parasites, worms, squirmed out of Mr. Oh's body (inaudible)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the operation, he was transferred here --
NEWTON: For Mr. Oh the nightmare isn't over. Dr. Lee says he was terrified when he woke afraid he was still in North Korea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually ask them is he really in South Korea or something so I actually answered him back that, hey, have a look at that
NEWTON (on camera): And he knew immediately he was safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.
NEWTON: The North Korean remains somewhere in this hospital under heavy security. Dr. Lee is very protective right now. He won't even let the
South Korean government speak to him fearing it will compromise his recovery.
You have a fondness for him, you like him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am. I'm really proud of him because (inaudible) from North Korea to thinking liberty and much more freedom.
NEWTON (voice-over): From his daring escape to the airlift to the trauma and surgeries, Mr. Oh's survival is stunning by any measure. He still got
a long road to recovery. At least now he's walking, talking and free, with luck landing him in a place that seems ready and waiting to give him a
whole new life. Paula Newton, CNN, (inaudible) University Trauma Center, South Korea.
GORANI: I did tell you that was graphic and those parasites were something else to look at, but it looks like there is a recovering process there
which is a good thing for that soldier.
Back to Europe, no deal yet, the U.K. and the E.U. say they failed to reach an agreement today on one of the key issues at the core of Brexit that is
the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
This is the contentious piece of land, currently, Northern Ireland, which is part of the United Kingdom, of course, has no physical border with the
country, the Republic of Ireland, which is an E.U. member.
Nobody wants a return of the hard border between the two, but the problem is the U.K. wants to leave the single market and the customs union, which
begs the question of how to reconcile that with not having a border with the Republic of Ireland and in turn, the E.U.
Despite that, the E.U. Commission President Jean Claude Juncker and the British Prime Minister Theresa May, who met in Brussels today and were
expected to announce a deal, remain publicly optimistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CLAUDE JUNCKER, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: This is (inaudible). I'm very confident that originally (inaudible).
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Lot of progress has been made and on many of the issues, there is a common understanding. But it is clear that
we want to move forward together, but on a couple of issues, some differences do remain, which require further negotiation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: From Brussels, we are joined by Mairead McGuinness, a member of the European Parliament from Ireland. Thanks, Ms. McGuinness for joining
us. First of all, how do you have a soft border between a part of the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland if the whole of the U.K. has voted to leave the
E.U.? That means effectively you have no border between an E.U. country and a non-E.U. country.
MAIREAD MCGUINNESS, IRISH MEMBER OF EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: It's a bit more complicated than that because as you say, the United Kingdom is leaving the
European Union. But it wasn't quite clear that the people of the United Kingdom said we want to leave the single market and customs union.
And the island of Ireland situation is quite unique. We have a Good Friday agreement. There is a shared responsibility on the Irish government, U.K.
government, and the political parties in Northern Ireland to work and build on that peace process.
There are already areas where we share a lot of competences with this great cooperation. What we needed to do and still have work to do in this first
phase, the divorce settlement is to work towards a term of wording that will allow us to say that there would be no hard border on the island of
[15:25:04] And quite frankly, today has been very disappointing because we started with some optimism. The soundings were very good that the was a
form of wording that the (inaudible) prime minister had agreed.
And that the U.K. side were also happy with and then something changed throughout a lunch that was happening in the commission. I'm hoping that
the optimism of Jean Claude Juncker and indeed the British prime minister would remain and that we would get by the end of this week to a place where
we needed to be.
And clearly, we had beliefs the form of wording on the table would allow us to move forward.
GORANI: But you say it's not as simple as that because the people of the United Kingdom didn't necessarily vote to leave the customs union and the
single market, fine, but if they still want to be a member and a part of those things, they need to allow the free movement of people.
And you know better than anyone, the E.U. is not going to give them the benefits of membership without some of the obligations, and if people voted
for Brexit, they also wanted to completely control their immigrations. Do how do you have a soft border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern
Ireland, which is part of the U.K. while maintaining Brexit as the people of Britain and the government says it's negotiating.
I'm coming from a totally different time as I will I represent a border constituency was Northern Ireland, and I'm saying our government. Instead,
there can be no return to a hardboard and therefore whatever needs to be done to make sure that there is no hardboard or needs to be done.
I'm not speaking just for myself. I was in Donegal, which is close to the border at the weekend. I crossed the border to visit my constituents. I
know the feeling on the ground and I remember the past and we do not want to even think about any possibility of going back to that place.
But there's a great deal of uncertainty, north and south of the border, we can solve this with the right wording. I think the United Kingdom have
come to understand that if there was age issue like a severing by leaving completely the customs union and single market that they would be creating
a situation of a border and we are seeing very clearly that cannot happen.
The United Kingdom and they don't want to it. It's about trying to square a circle and in the negotiations, there are many if you like surface to be
squared. The is that most contentious at the moment.
GORANI: But this is opening a can of worms. I'm sure you saw the emir of London, Sadiq Khan tweeted, "Huge ramifications for London if Theresa May
has conceded that it's possible for part of the U.K. to remain within the single market and customs union after Brexit. Londoners overwhelmingly
voted to remain in the E.U. in a similar deal here could protect tens of thousands of jobs."
Nicholas Sturgeon, the first Minister of Scotland, which has devoted to remain in the E.U. tweeted "If one part of the UK can retain regulatory
alignment with E.U. and effectively stay in a single market then why not Scotland? How do you even -- I mean, they have fair points, don't they?
MCGUINNESS: Yes, but that isn't my worry frankly. That's a worry for the United Kingdom government. I have many things to worry about what I
represent, which is Midlands-North-West in the Republic of Ireland.
And very clearly the big issue for us is to find a solution that allows for no hard border on the island of Ireland, and the differences if you need to
add them to be pointed out are that when it comes to Northern Ireland, there is an international peace agreement, which requires the government to
live up to certain commitments.
And London and Scotland, they should make their case. I agree, in fact, with the London and Scotland perspective because I would prefer the United
Kingdom to remain in a single market and customs union, even though they said they will not.
But the United Kingdom is now understanding that if they change dramatically and move in that direction, absolutely there are consequences
for the border in Northern Ireland, and they have said they don't want to hard border and we are finding a way forward. We had that today on the
I hope it remains on the table and that by the end of this week, we will see that sufficient progress is made for each and every topic whether the
money, citizens rights --
GORANI: I want to ask you an overall question --
MCGUINNESS: -- extremely difficult.
GORANI: Our viewers around the world and hearing from former Prime Minister Tony Blair, for instance, among others, who've said Brexit is
reversible, why is everyone assuming this is -- we are barreling down this highway toward a hard Brexit when potentially if there was another
referendum held today, most Britons would vote to remain. Do you think Brexit is reversible?
MCGUINNESS: Well, anything is possible in the world of politics, but what we have to work on today is that the United Kingdom has voted to leave the
European Union and we are getting on with it.
We know that by the end of March 2019, the U.K. would have left the European Union, but we also know they want to transition agreement and they
want a good trading partnership with us.
The idea that it might happen or things might change, yes, that's all being discussed and possibilities and all sorts of permutations and combinations,
but today in the real world politically, we deal with the outcome of the referendum, which is that the United Kingdom leaves. I think it's up to
the United Kingdom itself to have internal discussions and to reflect on the consequences.
And increasingly, across the European Union, despite many problems, a lot of citizens who might have issues with Europe and be discontent are
beginning to understand that the European Union means something and being part of it is important and they are working towards strengthening the EU
Of course, I want the UK to stay, but I respect their decision to leave.
GORANI: All right. Mairead McGuinness, member of the European Parliament, thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate your time.
There is more to come on the Brexit fallout this hour. Later, we go to that border between Ireland and the UK for a hard look at what's standing
in the way of a breakthrough today.
But, first, will the US president overturn 70 years of international consensus by declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel.
GORANI: The American President Donald Trump may make a major foreign policy announcement this week with potentially inflammatory consequences.
The president effectively considering declaring Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, overturning 70 years of international consensus.
CNN's Ian Lee has our story.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At one level, it's a city like any other. People sell, people buy - normal life. But
Jerusalem's old city is special.
And this is the best vantage point, here on the Mount of Olives. The Dome of the Rock in all its magnificence, a key holy site for Muslims. Behind
it, if you know where to look, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre built on the site where many Christians believe Christ was crucified.
And out of sight from this vantage point, the Western Wall, holy to Jews, supporting the mount where the temple once stood. It's not Jerusalem's
significance that's in dispute. It's its status.
After nearly 20 years divided by barbed wire, Israeli forces took control of the whole city east and west in 1967. The international community did
not recognize what Israel called the Unification of Jerusalem. [15:35:01] Embassies stayed in Tel Aviv. And East Jerusalem was accepted by the international community as the capital of a future Palestinian state
in a negotiated settlement between Israelis and Palestinians.
(on-camera): This area is called Abu Tor and it's a bit of a rarity in Jerusalem. That's because it's a mixed neighborhood. People who live on
this part of the street identify as Palestinians.
MOHAMMAD MUJAHEED, PALESTINIAN RESIDENT OF JEWRUSALEM: Inside I'm Palestinian and I'm Muslim and I'm proud about that.
LEE: "I don't think it's a successful step to move the embassy," Hamiz tells me. "And it's not the right time to do it. But the Israelis and the
Americans have other agendas that we can't change."
A bit further down the road, let's talk to some folks here.
ADI CHOBAN, ISRAELIE RESIDENT OF JERUSALEM: I'm an Israeli woman. I live in Jerusalem. I love Jerusalem.
LEE: Palestinians say they want East Jerusalem to be part of their capital. What do you think about that?
CHOBAN: Don't like to talk about it. I think Jerusalem is Israeli. We're Jewish.
LEE: What are your thoughts on the United States moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?
MENASHE MEZRACHI, ISRAELI RESIDENT OF JERUSALEM: Great. Great. First of all, it's not going to be a Palestinian country. And this always was
LEE: Some Israelis who didn't want to be on camera told us, they don't support moving the embassy.
Whatever President Trump announces, the position of the vast majority of the international community remains clear. East Jerusalem is considered
occupied territory. All settlements are illegal. Their view likely won't change quickly even if the US embassy changes addresses.
Ian Lee, CNN, Jerusalem.
GORANI: Aaron David Miller is CNN global affairs analyst and a vice president at the Woodrow Wilson Center International Center for Scholars.
He joins me from Washington.
So, what happens if President Trump declares Jerusalem the capital of Israel even though both Palestinians and Israelis claim it as their capital
and it will not be as a result of any negotiation.
AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Having worked for half a dozen secretaries of state, my advice to all of them was always the same
when it came to messing around and fooling around with Jerusalem, don't.
The reality is I see no compelling US national interest to do this now. Hala, if you were to tell me that we were this close to an agreement
between Israelis and Palestinians on all the issues, and this is what was required, maybe.
If you were going to tell me that, in response to this, the prime minister of Israel would make some concession to the Palestinians on some of the
core issues, maybe.
But I don't see this as geared to any coherent strategy. And because it doesn't serve American national interest, there is also an element of risk.
Will there be violence? Impossible to say. But, certainly, if Hamas and any other Islamic jihadi groups were looking for an issue to exploit, this
I'd only point you to one stunning reality, which has me baffled. There has not been any reaction, not a word, from the government of Saudi Arabia.
This either suggests that -
GORANI: That's interesting.
MILLER: - that the Saudis know it's not happening or, alternatively, the region has changed in ways that you and I are underestimating -
GORANI: Well, yes. And the Saudis and the Israelis - no, please finish your thought.
MILLER: I mean, the Arab League has weighed in. The Palestinians, of course, have weighed in. The Jordanians have weighed in. But you would've
thought that the custodian of the two holy places, Mecca and Medina and the mosques therein, and the relationship that Saudi Arabia has to Jerusalem,
(INAUDIBLE) in particular -
GORANI: And we're hearing and reading reports, all very credible reports, that Mohammad bin Salman, the crown prince in Saudi Arabia, seems to have
floated a terrible deal to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, when he was visiting his country that would essentially not include Jerusalem,
East Jerusalem as the capital.
The Saudis and the Israelis here have common interest in wanting to be very tough on Iran.
MILLER: They do. But, again, you're handing the Iranians, Shia though they may be, an issue to exploit as well.
I mean, I don't understand why at a time, months away from what could be the unveiling of the Trump initiative, at a time when you need key Arab
support on this initiative, when there's zero trust between Israelis and Palestinians and you do have a potential for violence - after all,
Jerusalem is a tinderbox, has proven to be a tinderbox waiting for a match. That's been the case at least four or five times more during the course of
my personal experiences.
[15:40:05] So, I'm not altogether sure what's driving this. And there's always the possibility, and maybe the Saudis know this, that, in fact, the
president is not going to work to declare anything on Wednesday.
I doubt it. I think this is going to go ahead.
GORANI: You think he will declare it? Well, hopefully, we will be able to talk again in a few days if there is significant news on that front.
Aaron David Miller, as always, pleasure having you on the program. Thanks so much.
MILLER: Likewise, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Turning back now to the dashed hopes for a Brexit breakthrough today, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says
the differences are narrowing, but there is a big divide that still has to be bridged.
And our Nic Robertson is literally standing, literally, on that very divide and he joins me from the border area between the Republic of Ireland and
Northern Ireland. What's the view from there?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, Hala, yes, you're right. This bridge behind me is one of the main roads between the
south and north.
That's the north up there. There you see the cars going across the south down here. You were talking a little time ago to MEP Mairead McGuinness
who was talking about Donegal.
Now, for her to drive from Donegal, which is up in this direction, to Dublin, she would very likely use this because it's the shortest route and
it would cost twice from Ireland - Southern Ireland into Northern Ireland and onwards.
There are a million vehicles or more every month that do that; $1.5 billion worth of trade between North and South, between the Southern Ireland and
the UK every single week. So, it's an economically important border.
But the issue that she raised, the perspective that the Irish government wants, so there should be no economic impact here and the border left open
is what the political party in Northern Ireland that supports Theresa May finds very hard to accept, the DUP, because they don't want to see Northern
Ireland as drifting away from mainland Britain.
They want to see it fully tethered to the UK, and not somehow drifting closer to an open border, an exceptional border that would become to
And what people have been telling me along the border here is that this issue has been left to the last minute that no one has been coming out from
London to look at the border, see what it looks like, hear their concerns or even try to frame some kind of vision, way forward for them.
ROBERTSON: Below is Middletown, a tiny Northern Ireland village nestled against the river that tracks the Irish border. It's home to about 300
people. They go to church on Sundays, work hard during the week. And right now, they feel, well, stuck in the middle in a Brexit tussle.
(on-camera): British Prime Minister Theresa May says the UK is leaving the EU Customs Union and Single Market, meaning the border on the edge of
Middletown here may get harder to cross.
TREVOR MAGILL, MANAGER, MIDDLETOWN POST OFFICE: The mood always was, you know, this is a problem, but it will be sorted, and, you know, the EU and
the governments will get this sorted.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): But now, Trevor Magill, whose family has run the village post office here for the past 40 years, worries his business and
the village could be harmed.
MAGILL: All of my customers here are from the Southern Ireland, probably 60, 70 percent. And that is where that supports the business for this
local - this local area.
ROBERTSON: A few miles away, at Linwood's Food Plant, boss John Woods, tells me his business has boomed since the peace process opened up the
border 20 years ago.
His milk comes from the north, the plastic milk containers from the south. He sells on both sides, employs over 300 people. But if Brexit brings
border controls, all that could change.
JOHN WOODS, MANAGING DIRECTOR, LINWOOD: We would just have to abandon exports to the south on our dairy and our bread bakery site.
FRANCES WARD, FARMER: The border just runs down the middle of that road.
ROBERTSON (on-camera): The middle of the road.
(voice-over): It doesn't matter where I look here, people are struggling to make sense of Brexit.
(on-camera): Tell me when we're crossing over.
WARD: Yes, we're crossing over here now.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Fifth-generation farmer, Frances Ward, lives just feet south of the border, owns fields on both sides.
WARD: How do you divide it?
ROBERTSON (on-camera): What's going to happen in Brexit then, if you got the - if the line is down the middle of the road?
WARD: Yes, I don't know what will happen to Brexit.
ROBERTSON: There are some 310 miles, about 500 kilometers of border with between 300 to 400 border crossings. And during Northern Ireland's 30
years of sectarian violence, known as The Troubles, many of those crossings like this one outside Frances Ward's farm were blocked by the police and
[15:45:05] While few here fear post-Brexit border controls could trigger an immediate return to The Troubles, many like John Woods worry about a
possible longer-term economic impact on peace.
WOODS: Our success after The Troubles has been not only a good work done by the peacemakers, but also by increasing employment, i.e. lower
unemployment. Lower unemployment pulls in people who may otherwise see themselves outside the system.
ROBERTSON: Like the border, weaving its way to its town and trees, carrying with it a heavy troubled history.
Solution for the current Brexit impasse seems set to be anything but straightforward and just as laden with pitfalls.
ROBERTSON: And I think given the sort of number of different press conferences we've heard today coming from different political views,
although everything seemed to come close today in typical sort of Northern Ireland politics fashion, we've seen this before, EU negotiating
brinksmanship. They do that here in Northern Ireland as well.
Though it seemed awfully close at one point today, I don't think we've heard the last of it yet, Hala. There's going to be more to be heard from
all the parties involved here.
GORANI: Oh, I can pretty much guarantee you that. Thanks very much, Nic Robertson. Live for us on this story.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
GORANI: Global outrage followed our recent exclusive report on slave auctions in Libya. Now, we want to look closer at the exploitation of
other African migrants.
Now, we caution you, accounts in this report are disturbing. Here is Arwa Damon.
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Blessing blows on a leaf and places it on a bottle.
She's come to the chief priest to guarantee safe passage to Italy. She knows it's a dangerous journey, but she's desperate.
(on-camera): Do you have kids?
BLESSING, TRAFFICKING VICTIM: Yes.
DAMON: Are they going with you?
DAMON: So, you must miss them. You miss them.
BLESSING: Yes. I will miss them. Yes.
DAMON (on-camera): The ritual will culminate in a do-do-oath where she'll pledge to repay the cost of travel to her sponsor in Europe.
(voice-over): We're forbidden from filming this final step. So powerful says the priest that when he finishes, if Blessing breaks her promise, the
spirit will appear in her dreams and cut her.
(on-camera): Do you know how much you're going to have to pay back?
BLESSING: I don't know.
DAMON (voice-over): She has put all of her trust in her sponsor and her faith. And it's a potent combination that has sent a record number of
Nigerian women to Europe.
[15:50:07] The International Organization for Migration estimates that, in 2014, around 1,400 traveled. This past year, the number spiked to 11,000.
The vast majority come from here, Benin City, where the economy runs on remittances from abroad. And women are regularly approached with false
(on-camera): You trusted him?
SANDRA, VICTIM OF TRAFFICKING: Yes, very much. I trusted him. I - most of the times - there are some things I tell him I don't tell my parents.
DAMON (voice-over): Sandra is talking about her deputy pastor who told her he had a vision from God that she traveled overseas.
Then he said, his sister in Russia could get her a job in a hair salon. Sandra went willingly. But for added insurance, he took items from her.
SANDRA: My pants. My bra. The hair from my head, my armpit and my private parts. He said that it's a form of agreement, so that when I get
there I'm not going to run with the money.
DAMON: When she arrived in Russia, the sum was more than she could have ever imagined.
SANDRA: But the first thing she did, she took away my passport that unless I finish paying her money, $45,000.
DAMON (on-camera): $45,000?
SANDRA: Yes, that's what she said.
DAMON (voice-over): And the only way to pay that off was prostitution. Bound by the spirit, in a strange city, for the next three years, Sandra's
life was hell. She lost count of the men per night. At times, 10, 15, 20, even more.
SANDRA: At that process, most of Nigerian girls lost their lives because it's not every girl that can withstand the pressure of ten men.
DAMON: She thought about killing herself if only to spare herself being killed.
SANDRA: They were four, four or five in numbers. They asked me that they need to sleep with me through my anal and I told them I can't do that.
DAMON: They pushed her out a second story window and she broke her wrist. But she didn't go to the authorities. The trafficker had given the items
he took from her to a priest in Nigeria. And like so many, she was afraid of the power of the juju.
SANDRA: It's like a danger to we girl, so we're very careful. Mostly when it gets to do with the sensitive parts of the body, they might use it
DAMON: It took Sandra three years to pay off the debt.
SANDRA: The wicked don't have any place here. They have to face the law.
DAMON (voice-over): When she got back to Benin City, she reported the man and his sister who trafficked her and they are now on trial.
SANDRA: They were shocked because they never expected they would see me in Nigeria. They thought I was dead.
DAMON: This is the church where Sandra was approached. The church's head pastor says the man was a member, but not a deputy pastor.
And there are numerous disturbing reports of other churches manipulating and abusing faith.
ETINOSA OSIOMWANHI, PASTOR, HEAVENLY AMBASSADORS MINISTRY: I don't call them pastors. I call them herbalists or native doctors in suits who would
DAMON: The betrayal that stretched across two continents is now even closer to Sandra.
SANDRA: Even my own father, he said I'm not his daughter.
DAMON: Still, she believes that her father will see her strength.
SANDRA: When he sees my story has changed in a different way, maybe he would be the one to reconcile with me. Maybe will be the one calling me
and "this is my best child," "this is my child that God has favored."
DAMON: She's publicizing her ordeal, so that others don't have to go through it, turning her nightmare into power.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Benin City, Nigeria.
[15:55:05] GORANI: Well, it is the city with more Michelin stared restaurants than anywhere in the world. Not Paris, but Tokyo. Take a
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ryo Murata says unagi has been part of his life for as long as he can remember. He started eating freshwater eel as a young
RYO MURATA, CHEF, RYO (through translator): I really like the sauce. When we would go eat sushi, I always ordered eel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Japan, unagi is a popular summertime food, often served as grilled fillets over rice.
But Murata does things his own way. He creates small flakes from various parts of the eel and pairs each course with rice wine.
MURATA (through translator): I tried to create a restaurant that I myself would want to go to. For example, the counter we have. I don't think a
regular unagi restaurant would have this kind of counter. I also don't think there any other restaurants that pair the eels with Japanese sake.
Drinking sake while watching food being prepared is my favorite. So, that's why I made it, so that customers can watch the food being prepared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Each guest gets one entire eel. They're delivered fresh to the restaurant each morning.
Murata makes a point to grill the eels shortly after they are skewered. They'll be fried for a second time right before being served.
In between, Murata says (INAUDIBLE 1:38) to soften the meat and remove any unwanted flavors.
MURATA (through translator): Cooking eels requires a lot of technique. We cook eel every single day, but we still try and think of ways that we can
make them taste even better. Even today, we experiment. It's quite fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murata spent 13 years at a traditional unagi restaurant before opening his own place. He says the experience helped him
perfect his flavors.
MURATA (through translator): I like to strike a balance between sweet and spicy. It's a sauce that I finally achieved after a lot of experimenting
and tasting different sauces every day until I became sick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then, of course, is the sake. Murata stocks more than 200 bottles and changes the pairings each month.
Murata says rice is the hardest thing to pair with rice wine. He cooks his rice in an earthenware pot and serves it with a blended sake.
MURATA (through translator): My favorite course has to be una-don. We service it as the last course. It's very traditional and it's quite
charming. I would really love for people to enjoy it that way.
GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani, thanking you for watching. Stay with CNN.